10/24/2002                                                                                       View Comments

THINK

Okay, let's talk.

As a Christian I believed in GOD, in Jesus, in the Holy Spirit, in angels and demons, in prophesy, in coming judgement, in heaven and hell. I believed in creation, in a 6000-year-old earth, in Adam and Eve, in Noah and his ark, in Elijah and in Elisha. I believed I was chosen by God for eternal life, in supernatural healings, in words of knowledge, in speaking in tongues, in predestination, in freewill, in the Bible, and in so many other things that this list could go on, and on, and on.

I believed in all these things and thought anyone who did not believe in them was a fool. I pitied them. When I met others who believed in other religions, or in no religion, I was mystified as to how they could not see the truth of my CHRISTIANITY. In my mind, Christianity was so unique and so superior to all other religions that demon possession, or GOD having blinded their eyes, were the only explanations as to why others could not see clearly on the issue.

When I read mythology I would wonder how those other people could believe such bizarre stories. How could a rational person believe in such odd things? Somehow I wouldn't see that the stories I believed were pretty damn odd as well.

When I would see a bag-lady or some burn-out walking down the street, talking to themselves, I would judge them as mentally ill. When I would overhear children talking to imaginary friends, I would think they were cute, but very immature. When I heard people in church, including me, talking to invisible JESUS, I thought that was perfectly normal.

I thought that way because I was taught by my religion to think that way. Usually I was told that Christianity is not a religion but a relationship — a relationship with Jesus Christ, the invisible god-man.

Well I haven't seen HIM yet and as far as I can tell I was only talking to myself all those times I was on my knees.

The mind is powerful and the power of belief is quite persuasive. People who believe in themselves are generally more successful then people who do not believe in themselves. People who believe they are going to survive a surgery have a much better chance then those who believe they are going to die on the operation table.

Believing there is a GOD gives a certain strength not available to the existentialist. In a similar way, believing in Santa Claus gives a certain magic to Christmas morning not available to the non-Santa-believing child. It may be a certain strength or magic to believe in something, but believing in something does not make that something true or real.

It is a terrifying thought to many people to think that the universe is a cold impersonal place with no real plan for the future. If there is no GOD then we are just as likely to become extinct someday as the dinosaurs did ages ago. If there is no eternal plan for the residents on this planet, then one day the sun will die, and along with it, all life here on Earth.

Believing in GOD might be more comforting, giving the believer a certain worldview that is full of eternal hopes and possibilities, but again, believing in things doesn't make those things true.

Just as a child eventually has to leave behind his fantasies of Santa and the Easter Bunny, eventually we humans must abandon the pretend world of gods, heaven, hell and so on.

18 comments:

scotnogod said...

Santa, it never ceases to amaze me how many Christians can't see the silliness of saying there can be no justice or morality without God. I fail to see how invoking God could help solve this puzzle. Firstly is something moral because God says so or does God say so because it is moral. If the first then morality is nothing but an arbitrary set of rules set by God. If the latter, then God really has nothing to do contribute.

Secondly, notice how so often Christians claim that there faith is proof of an open mind. One post about even admits that doubt is a normal (and essential) partner of faith. Yet how many Christians then act, talk or think in line with the concept that faith is not identical in substance to knowledge. I have yet to meet a Christian that didn't talk and act as if he was 100% certain. It's the ultimate double think, Faith = knowledge unless pressed on the point.

Awakener said...

Firstly, it is quite possible that Christians are living in a fantasy world. If they are happy there, then why should they leave? If death is the end, shouldn't people enjoy life as much as possible?

Secondly, to scotnogod, perhaps you are merely unlucky in who you speak too. I know many Christians who actively debate, and convince each other of things - because they are still thinking. Heck, I’m Christopagan, because I had questions and explored my faith and other viewpoints. Christians ask questions of clergy, of philosophers, of each other. This asking of questions is an admission that they aren’t sure of everything. Descartes doubted the existence of everything he couldn’t be entirely sure of.

Anonymous said...

There are MANY logical problems with Christianity and most religions. However, that does not prove that NO spiritual world exists. If anything, it can prove that some knd of spiritual world does exist but we have not yet come to a full understanding of it.

a woman who loves you said...

Is it not true that the reason you believe in the Bible and the God of the Bible might really be because you have been brainwashed that way from childhood.

No, I’m sorry. You still don’t have a valid point with which to take God out of your life. I stepped away from those patterns, as have many others. Many of us have went away from religion and came back to the Truth. Truth is what I follow. I don’t follow religion, I follow the Bible and it’s Truth. You are searching for knowledge? Search the Bible, I promise, every truth you will ever need to know about the world is in that book. Trust in those feelings in your heart. Not in your head where the devil can get in. Not in your gut where your flesh can corrupt. Look to your heart, you’ll find conviction and the Holy Spirit, and you will find God: our only Truth.


I am sure you have heard the saying, "I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is." I take this saying to heart because I wouldn't want to disappoint an all-loving god. I mean, if he really sent his son to die for us, if what he has to say is that important, then we should probably listen.

I am not afraid of death either. In fact before I became saved I often thought of suicide. No one can say for sure exactly what the next life will be like, and if the greatest being to ever exist will meet me when I cross over, why not take the trip now? Then I would know for sure how I was suppose to live, and what was true, and what was not.

However once you cross over you can't come back. And if there really is a God, and The Bible really holds his instructions, then me going against his will, when he has the ability to destroy me, is not a real good idea.

God has a plan for every human being. And when you follow Him and listen to his Word then you will find out what that plan is; and trust me, his plan for you is wonderful! He is an all loving god, and wants you to live a wonderful life. He will take you away when your life is complete, and if you have followed Him to the best of your ability then you are rewarded in heaven. Let me make that clear- Heaven is not the reward, you get rewarded in heaven.

The Bible says that God is pure and he is light. Light cannot abide with darkness. Sin brings darkness. So if you have sin you cannot be with God. A+B=C Water and Oil don't mix, and God can't mix with sin. Soooo

If you are not cleansed by Jesus' blood, you cannot enter into heaven. And where do you go if you do not go to heaven..... yes, hell. It is also a real place, where real torment goes on.

The things is, everyone comes into this world dirty. One, no not one, is righteous. And the only way to get rid of the dirt, the only way to bring light into your life, and thereby make you acceptable to God, is to pray for Jesus to make you clean. You have to admit that you are a sinner (you are dirty) and that Jesus died for you on the cross, then arose 3 days later defeating death, and that without him you won't make it.

Otherwise you can't go into heaven. Not because God isn't loving, not because God wants to punish you, not because God thinks you didn't try hard enough; but because it simply can't be. God is pure and all that is holy, while we are dirty and unrighteous. But because God loves us (you and me) so much, he let his only son be beat and killed for you and me. And if you can accept that, and believe that with all of your heart, then you get to go to heaven and be with God and all of the rest of us that have been made clean.


The following statements are often made by people who don’t believe in God. I wouldn’t worry so much about other people’s opinions if they didn’t try to convert others into their stupidity. Under them I have written the reasons as to why they are not true.
God could reveal himself to me - but he chooses not to.
God reveals himself in many ways. He sometimes has a friend email us an article that has to do with what we were just wondering about (questioning). Sometimes he has a friend or the preacher, or even a complete stranger, call or stop by and tell us what we need to hear. He doesn’t always audibly speak to people. In fact there are very few people in the Bible he ever actually spoke to. He usually sent angels to speak to people. In the Old Testament this was because he could not connect with us because it was rare that we were sinless. But after Jesus gave us the gift of salvation, allowing us to be forgiven once and for all, there were more opportunities for God to talk to us individually. I know there have been plenty of times when I have prayed for an answer as I was watching TV or driving down the road, and then saw an advertisement that told me exactly what I needed to know. Plus if you make up your mind that God isn’t going to contact you, you won’t “hear” him when he does. If you refuse to hear or see something, then you won’t! Even with it right in front of you.
Hebrews 11: 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

God created me - God knew how I would turn out if he created me with flaws. God saw it in the future, so why blame me? God should take responsibility for his own work and not try to pass the blame on for flaws he created.

God created man in His image, and therefore we were perfect. But then the serpent (who was the devil- who is jealous of God) deceived and tricked Eve into eating the apple. Then she gave it to Adam and he ate it too. So God cursed women with labor pains, caused man to have to till the earth for our food, and caused the serpent to crawl, and put death upon mankind-which signifies sin.
But then he told us all we had to do to get rid of that sin was to sacrifice animals. But through doing that we still weren’t as close to God as He originally intended. So He sent His Son to earth through a virgin birth. Then His Son, Jesus Christ, died on the cross for us and arose three days later. Now all we have to do to have God in us, (the Holy Spirit) is admit God is real and the story of Jesus is true, we are sinners, we are imperfect and can’t get through this life without God’s help. Then we ask God to forgive us of our sins and promise to try our best not to commit them. And when we occasionally mess up, we immediately ask for forgiveness and everything is okay. Have you ever asked God to be a part of your life? It will make you feel much better and make your life worth living.

According to what the Bible says, if we commit any sin at all we will burn in Hell forever unless we are forgiven.

In reading the Bible for yourself you will come across a lot of little passages that shed light on a lot of big issues no one seems to have the answer to. This is why God tells you to read the Bible. Don’t go by what you have heard the Bible says, or even what your preacher says the Bible says. Everyone gets a different understanding from the Bible, and they find their answers in different passages.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1 Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So - this guy Jesus comes along and he's God's son. He was born to a virgin.... hmmmmm ... yeah right! OK - Let's just assume that God can do anything and that he can reproduce through a human virgin.

Good assumption! Like I said above God is a spirit. And what keeps us alive is our souls, our spirits. God also created our flesh and blood bodies. Adam and Eve didn’t have a Dad, why does Jesus (God) have to? Especially since He was already created? God didn’t create him in the womb. In fact it was Jesus and not God the Father that created the Earth. Jesus just needed a vessel to come to earth in, and he found that vessel in a young woman named Mary, who was undefiled. God is Holy and therefore cannot have unholy things around Him. Which is why you have to be saved and sinless to get into Heaven, God’s domain. The Angels are holy; everything in Heaven is holy which is why we need to be cleansed of our sins.
Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. {highly...: or, graciously accepted, or, of much grace}
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

God is not only hiding - but for some reason God is so powerless that God needs to act through us to accomplish anything. If God has something to say then he has to make someone speak gibberish (tongues) and someone else interpret that. I've seen that happen and it's a scary scene.
I’m sorry if you think that God is inaccessible. Prayer and praise is all it takes to access His magnificent powers and love. God is not hiding; you just aren’t looking (like I said above). And when you better understand the Trinity, you will understand speaking in tongues. That is a form of prayer that is of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit helps you pray the perfect prayer. We have to have the Holy Spirit help us because we are in no way perfect. When you pray in the Spirit (in tongues) you are in direct communication with God. I think that is why it scares people sometimes. We are made and taught to fear God, so when we get direct communication from Him it scares us. For an understanding of the Spirit of God read 1Corinthians Chapter 14.
Don’t let it scare you. God is very merciful and loving. If you ask for forgiveness and confess your belief in Him, He will accept you.

Anonymous said...

Wow. That sure was a lot of words to tell us nothing meaningful at all! Yikes! How long did you pour over that before you hit 'post'?

>>Is it not true that the reason you believe in the Bible and the God of the Bible might really be because you have been brainwashed that way from childhood.

Ummm - yes it is. Because, you see, if you had grown up all by your lonesome on an island someplace, what do you think the chances are that you'd believe this very same nonsense?? How about if you were born in India?? Think you'd be believing in this christ guy then? How about China? Turkey? In case you don't get it, external social influences dictate almost entirely what religion a person ends up believing in! Come on!

>>No, I’m sorry. You still don’t have a valid point with which to take God out of your life.

>>Says you; by the way - who exactly are you to make this assumption??

>>I stepped away from those patterns, as have many others. Many of us have went away from religion and came back to the Truth. Truth is what I follow. I don’t follow religion, I follow the Bible and it’s Truth.

No; you *THINK* you follow the *truth*, but in reality, you haven't a leg to stand on when it comes to PROVING any of it to *true*. Your assertion that these things are true simply dead-ends at "I Believe", and BELIEVING something to be true doesn't necessarily prove it to be so. Sorry. Your ignorance is starting to show. Tell me - what is your basis for asserting these things are TRUE??? Waiting...

>>You are searching for knowledge? Search the Bible, I promise, every truth you will ever need to know about the world is in that book. Trust in those feelings in your heart. Not in your head where the devil can get in. Not in your gut where your flesh can corrupt. Look to your heart, you’ll find conviction and the Holy Spirit, and you will find God: our only Truth.

Really. Did you bother ever reading anything on this site before spewing that?? Who do you think you are talking to?? Do you not realize that most of us here have been christians for the better parts of our lives? So tell me, what do you hope to accomplish by telling us the same old tired rhetoric that we ourselves used to dispense?? Stop wasting your time and start producing evidence to support your claims...

>>I am sure you have heard the saying, "I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is."

Oh, goody - Pascals Wager. Still waiting for you to cough up the evidence to support the existence of your 'god'.

>>I take this saying to heart because I wouldn't want to disappoint an all-loving god.

>>What? Are you serious?? You just said this god of your is an all loving god, right? So why would you be scared to "live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is." What are you afraid of, then? Retribution? Hell? So much for your concept of an all loving god...


>>I mean, if he really sent his son to die for us, if what he has to say is that important, then we should probably listen.

Why? Why do you think any of this actually happened in the first place? What is your reason to believe any of it?? Do you know how many similar myths have existed with identical storylines before your christ-god supposedly came along?

>>I am not afraid of death either. In fact before I became saved..

You never became *saved*, because there was no-one there to save you, and there was nothing to save you from in the first place. You just accepted the same old stupid story without ever critically examining where they came from. You have sucessfully become convinced that you are a dirty, worthless piece of crap in dire need of some sort of salvation, because if you DON'T get salvation, then your all-loving god will cast you into hell where you will be burned, and tortured, and incinerated, forever and ever and ever... Bah. How gullible of you.

>>I often thought of suicide. No one can say for sure exactly what the next life will be like, and if the greatest being to ever exist will meet me when I cross over, why not take the trip now? Then I would know for sure how I was suppose to live, and what was true, and what was not.

>>Why not send your beliefs there instead and spare your mind of any further mental gymnastics?? Put those childish nightmares of yours to permanent rest and enjoy reality for what it is - REAL.

>>However once you cross over you can't come back. And if there really is a God, and The Bible really holds his instructions, then me going against his will, when he has the ability to destroy me, is not a real good idea.

Gee - you sure swallowed this stuff hook, line and sinker, haven't you?

>>God has a plan for every human being. And when you follow Him and listen to his Word then you will find out what that plan is; and trust me, his plan for you is wonderful! He is an all loving god, and wants you to live a wonderful life. He will take you away when your life is complete, and if you have followed Him to the best of your ability then you are rewarded in heaven. Let me make that clear- Heaven is not the reward, you get rewarded in heaven.

Proof, please. And no, the bible is not proof.

>>The Bible says...BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Proof please, that the bible is God's Word, and should be taken seriously. Thanks.

>>If you are not cleansed by Jesus' blood, you cannot enter into heaven. BLAH BLAH.

And your bible tells you this, and yet, you can't produce any reason at all why anyone should take this peculiar book seriously?? Come on!

>>And where do you go if you do not go to heaven..... yes, hell. It is also a real place, where real torment goes on.

Because my bible tell me so! BUT!!... How do I know the bible is any kind of authority at all?? Will you please tell us?? Thanks again!!

Augh. You know what? I am not even going to waste my time commenting on the rest of your tired, boring, unintelligent garbage. It is not worth the cost of the power to run my laptop. Look - put up or shut up, OK? Not to be rude, but we hear this same shit from every one of you that drops by here. You have said nothing new. NOTHING. NOT ONE FRIGGIN' THING. Again, you must think we are all just a bunch of uninformed people just waiting to hear the Good News about christ. We've BEEN THERE AND DONE IT. For crying out loud I used to write the same letters you just did!! Augh! This is an EX-CHRISTIAN SITE!! We can guarantee you that nothing you could ever tell us will be original!! Nothing! LISTEN!!
What WE want from YOU is EVIDENCE!

Come back when you have some, okay?? -Wes.

.:webmaster:. said...

To a woman who loves you: Stop spamming the site with the same post over and over and over. If you continue, all your posts will be deleted.

Thanks.

$$ said...

The reason why Christians kept insisting people to 'buy' their Truth that can set them free:

It is surprising why God doesn’t provide his church with the money they need. Churches all over the world require members to continually give funds.

It is also surprising why all churches do not have the same ‘blessing’. The House of God, no matter where or how many members it has, is supposed to be equal.

There is another type of organization similar to churches - businesses.

Some companies make more money, some don’t. It all depends on how effective the companies SELL THEIR PRODUCT.

$$ said...

Fun fact 1 :

Genesis 10^(-35) seconds: In the beginning, God created the fabric of space-time. And space-time was without forces; and energy became matter and matter became energy. And the energy-matter moved upon the fabric of space-time.

Genesis 10^(-6) seconds: And God said, “Let there be forces,” and there were forces. And God saw the forces, and that they were good. God divided the strong nuclear force from the weak nuclear force and the electromagnetic force from the gravitational force. And God called the strong, weak and electromagnetic forces “particle forces“, and gravity He called…uh, gravity.

Genesis 3 seconds: And God said, “Let there be protons and neutrons throughout the universe, and let them form simple nuclei.” And God made the nuclei and called the single proton “hydrogen“, the double proton “helium“, and the triple proton “lithium“.

Genesis 300,000 years: And God said, “Let the electrons throughout the heaven be gathered together unto the nuclei, and let the atoms appear”; and it was so. And God called the atoms simple elements; and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 300,000,000 years: And God said, “Let the simple elements gather to form nebulae, some nebulae yielding galaxies, and galaxies gathering stars of all kinds”; and it was so. And the simple elements brought forth nebulae and nebulae yielding stars; and God saw that it was good. Then, God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to break up the monotony; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years.” And God saw that they were good.

Genesis 10,000,000,000 years: And God said, “Let the Milky Way galaxy bring forth the Sun and the Earth, and let the moving creature that hath life arise, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. Then let us forget about all of the organic material that has developed throughout the universe in the last 10,000,000 years as well as the material which has multiplied upon the face of the Earth and let us make man out of hmmm, how about dust!

And God saw that it was… unusual.

Thus, Genesis begins.

$$ said...

How to translate the Well-known Genesis story into a bed-time story ?

Imagine this:

A father puts his 2 newborn children, a girl and a boy, in a playpen. The playpen is filled with toys, teddy bears, dolls and everything else that would make a child’s dream come true. But, in the middle of the playpen, there is a plate of half-baked cookies. The father tells his children that they can play with anything in the playpen, except eat the cookies. He also tells that if they eat the cookies, they will die.

The girl, out of pure curiosity of a child, desires to eat the cookies to see how they taste like. She also convinces her brother, the boy, to eat the cookies as well. They both eat the cookies. When the father finds out, he gets into a storming fury. In his anger, he throws the children out of the playpen, out of his house, and tells them to fend for their own, never wanting to see them again. He also curses his children to make their lives a painful and miserable existence.

Some loving father.

Who wouldn’t resist cookies?

boomSLANG said...

I've never been fond of half-baked cookies, myself. Raw cookie dough? I might get worms.

freethinker05 said...

How about this one $$; God places Adum and Evediot in the garden and says, if you eat from the forbidden tree, I,(God) on the day thy eat thereof, I,(God) will surely die. Then, humans live happily ever after.

Anonymous said...

It is clearly obvious that matter, time, space and energy exist. That could be the reason for a global agnosticism or at least deism, instead of atheism.
There are many creation and genesis stories. There are also many anomalous archaeological artifacts.

boomSLANG said...

It is clearly obvious that matter, time, space and energy exist. That could be the reason for a global agnosticism or at least deism, instead of atheism.

It's clearly obvious that my neighbor's Rotweiler exists, too. It seems they've taken the dog, and they've assigned the name "Thor" to the animal---after the god, "Thor". This is similar to how people take the cosmos, space, etc., and assign the name "God" to it.

Dave8 said...

Anony: "It is clearly obvious that matter, time, space and energy exist. That could be the reason for a global agnosticism or at least deism, instead of atheism."

Interpreted; it is clearly obvious that we exist, and therefore can believe anything.

Well, thanks for that anony, not sure I am going to submit that to the next Mensa application review board, but... thanks all the same.

tyra said...

i've got something that's been bugging me. (i'm an ex-theist, an ex-christian, so i think i qualify for this site)
i hear a lot creationist words still in common use, even among those of us that aren't. words like "made", "created", stuff like that... but the one that really gets to me is this: when asked, point blank about the origin of species, it is often questioned "do you believe in evolution?" the proper response is "no". because evolution is not a belief system. one "believes" in creation, because there is no actual evidence for it. but i and others like me, are convinced of evolution, because there is evidence for it.

.:webmaster:. said...

Good point, Tyra. Next time someone asks me if I "believe in evolution" I'll respond by asking "Do you believe the Earth rotates around the Sun?" When they say yes, I'll point out that Joshua told the sun to stand still in the sky, which it supposedly did, according to the Bible. Then I'll point out that Calvin, Luther, and the Catholic Church all rejected Copernicus' theory that the Sun was the center of the Solar System. Then I'll close with, "It doesn't make any difference what 'I believe' about evolution -- what matters is the evidence supporting it."

Dave8, that Mensa comment made me laugh out loud! Too funny!

Dave8 said...

I felt we had to get something out of that statement :-)

Anonymous said...

Which hair style is more evil for men:
Long hair = feminine or
short hair with a shaved face = roman homo ???