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4/24/2006                                                                                       View Comments

My Main Reasons for Leaving the Faith

By Lorena

When I was "saved" they told me that I could not lose my salvation. If I really received Jesus in my heart, then I was as good as in heaven already. However, they said, "faith without works is dead" (book of James); therefore, I had to show changes in my life to prove that I actually believed in Jesus.

So I set on a journey to be a "new creature." Along the way, I often noticed that some devout Christians went back to their sinful lives. I was particularly concerned about the substance-addicted ones. Alcohol and drugs are habits very hard to kick, and many fall away and go back to their sad lives, thinking that they have failed God and that there is no place for them in the church.

On the other hand, many who came from good homes had no problem following the rules and regulations. They became the pastors and the leaders. They were the examples for everyone to follow.

Now a Canadian, I grew up in Latin America and in a dysfunctional home. I wasn’t taught manners, neither North American nor any other type. In Canadian churches, I felt awkward. Always making mistakes, saying things I shouldn’t say, doing inocent things that, in the eyes of the pious Christians, were signs that I was a hidden in need of serious fixing.

In reality, I was a poor soul needing psychological help for the many emotional issues produced by my sad childhood. But in the eyes of the church goers, I wasn’t producing any fruit. The inadequacy I felt made me realize that I was no different from the homeless or the substance addicted. There was no place in the church for me either.

Several things started to become obvious to me at the time:

1) If only people that have been raised well can produce fruit, what kind of God would limit heaven to those who were lucky enough to be born in a stable home with good parents?

2) Didn’t Jesus favor people exactly like me? Wasn't Jesus on the side of the downtrodden? Why does an institution created in his name favor the well-adjusted only? (The mal-adjusted are just feel-good charity projects.)

3) The proper, well-dressed, poster Christians started to look, to me, like the Pharisees of Jesus' time, know-it alls with the power to run the religion. How do they dare to speak in Jesus name? According to the book, people like them had Jesus crucified. And if he were to come back, the religious would kill him again--of that I am sure.

4) Jesus, according to what's been written, spoke against religion. And people went ahead and created a religion about him. How strange…very odd.

Jesus may be a myth, or not. But regardless, the religion created in his name is just another ploy of the establishment to keep the masses under control and to give more power to the privileged—not worth following, that’s for sure.

Besides, if Jesus can't save people from serious addictions and emotional pain, what good is he anyway?

61 comments:

Anonymous said...

I'm so awflly thrlled
that so many have seen the
how they had been trapped
in myth and superstition.To
be free is grand.

Fast Eddie said...

The biggest problem I have with christianity is the New Testement says you will become a "New Creation". I picture a "New Creation" as a Caterpillar becoming a butterfly. The problem is I see a whole lot of caterpillars and not too many butterflies.

mq59 said...

I think the point of James is to point out that true faith is productive--it's not just a matter of saying some stupid prayer at some point in your life and that's it.

mq59 said...

A lot of people have been born into dysfunctional families and grown up and done well.

For example, President Reagan's father was a drunk who mismanaged the family's money. He ended up a well-known actor and POTUS.

I think Beethoven had a bad childhood too.

Lorena said...

MG59,

You bring up the other point I hate about Christianity. According to you people, everybody is the same and should turn out the same.

It ain't so. There are levels of dysfunction and different people react to the same circumstances in different ways.

Actually, you are just saying the same crap I heard for years in Christian churches. Saying that to a hurting person is the most insensitive thing someone can ever do. I am going to say to you the same I told the pious Christians:
Have you walked a mile in my shoes?

That know-it-all attitude of yours so typical of Christians makes you believe that you know everybody.


Lorena

mq59 said...

I'm not trying to be an ass. What I'm saying is meant to give hope.

And my life hasn't been exactly flower petals and happiness either. We may be more alike then we think.

Lorena said...

MG59,

You may not be trying to be an ass, but you are being one. Because you have no idea what it is that I suffer of.

And your comment also includes people who suffer of destructive addictive behaviours. Basically you are saying that we suffer because it is our fault. You are saying that if others have overcomed their problems, we should be able to do so as well.

You think you are giving us hope. But you are not, because when we were christians,we tried very hard with little sucess.

You are saying that if you can do it, why can't I? Well I don't know but it isn't any of your business. And if you want to help, you are definitely using the wrong method.

Lorena

SpaceMonk said...

Welcome Lorena,

Don't pay attention to MQ59, he never learns. He's like a sticky lolly wrapper that won't shake off, thinking he's defending his religion, but really he's defending what has hurt people like you.
To hang around a site like this for so long and not have realised it's purpose or learned how ridiciulous chrisitanity is just shows how thick he himself is.

Anonymous said...

Hi Lorena, I think the Jesus myth was invented to take their focus away from reality, if you can make people concentrate on an object so intense with fear and guilt and keep them distracted then, you can slip their money out of their pockets without them really realizing that they've been had.

Isn't it funny how salvation and money go hand in hand?

I've never heard any preacher say, Be sure to leave your money and wallets at home.

Also Jesus never spoke of receiving any money himself, but now church is big business, churches have to have big stained glass windows, and a PA system and choir robes, it's live entertainment, mostly theatrical nonsense.

Anyway, this guy I knew died and was a alcoholic and stayed drunk most of his awaken conscious days, and the preacher got up and told everybody what a good Christian the alchy was...lol Got to get them into heaven some how...lol

Funny how Christians are more concerned with other peoples souls, than their own.

Like you said, it's none of their damned business, ever! TC, Ben

.:webmaster:. said...

"I'm not trying to be an asshole"

It's not your intentions that are under criticism, it is your actions, your words, your insensitivity.

That's the thing about Christianity, intentions matter more than actions. I can be a great humanitarian, but if my intention is serve humanity and I'm not a Christian, then off to hell I go.

However, no matter what I do in life, as long as I say a sincere salvation prayer somewhere along the way, off to heaven I go.

It's really screwed up thinking.

Sarge said...

Lorena, I think what mq59 is trying to say is that you can be what you want to be, no matter what your background. Don't let that, or others who look at it, define you. The only piece of any religeon which makes a lick of sense is actually universal (in concept, not practice) is that you should treat people as you wish to be treated, act as you wish people would act. Be honest with yourself at all times.

When I was a youngster I was considered "bad". Also disfunctional family that appeared ideal on the outside, rageaholic/alchoholic behind closed doors, and here I was, an avowed atheist who didn't get along with authority, who couldn't do the social thing, or any other thing that society at large thought "good". Strange, I never had any brushes with the law, didn't do booze or drugs, but I was "bad". The "good" kids "experimented", but that was all right, just "growing pains". I left for the army after escaping school (1965) and didn't see most of those people again until 1998.

I returned for my father's funeral, performed, wore my tux with all my military decorations. People were shocked. Somehow, I hadn't wound up dead in some ditch or alley, a degenerate wino or junkie, nor did I die under a hail of police gunfire for some unspeakable crime. Damn! Were they disappointed! I had a great wife, no divorces, two great sons, and (the people in my parents circle are largely military) medals that most of them didn't have. I had done all this without their jesus or church, without their kind thoughts or good wishes, and in spite of their predictions.

I'm not rich, powerful, or famous, but I did all right, and it really annoyed some of them. Most because I wouldn't stay in the box they thought I should be in.

Treat people well, treat yourself well. My best to you, Lorena.

brigid said...

I still struggle with this faith vs grace that I encounter here. In the catholic church (I'm glad I'm out) they have always had this very neat: your salvation is due to faith AND morals, AND you can lose it. If you die a second after committing a mortal sin, your sorry ass drops into hell. If you have lived a really really REALLY good life, you might get away with purgatory.

Lorena, I have heard this many times: you are saved by faith, BUT.........you have to show your faith by your "works". This is just a full-circle. It means that one is not really accepting god's grace, much less his love. They have to get behind it and push. In spite of their slick, tidy, coat-and-tie religion, they do not trust god. They trust religion.

My little challenge to christians: toss your bible into the nearest dumpster and simply trust god. Any takers? Fat chance.

Jim Arvo said...

Hi Brigid,

You said "If you die a second after committing a mortal sin, your sorry ass drops into hell." Yes, that cracks me up. It's just like a big game of musical chairs. All that matters is where you're standing when the music stops. If there's no time to file an appeal, then "Sorry Charlie, it's the grill pit for you." Nice system. So well thought-out.

brigid said...

Hi Jim

If I made you laugh, then you made my day.

Jim Lee said...

Once one can give Christianity the flick, all religions for that matter, the sooner real life begins.

Anonymous said...

“2) Didn’t Jesus favor people exactly like me? Wasn't Jesus on the side of the downtrodden? Why does an institution created in his name favor the well-adjusted only? (The mal-adjusted are just feel-good charity projects.)

3) The proper, well-dressed, poster Christians started to look, to me, like the Pharisees of Jesus' time, know-it alls with the power to run the religion. How do they dare to speak in Jesus name? According to the book, people like them had Jesus crucified. And if he were to come back, the religious would kill him again--of that I am sure.”
I think that you didn’t go to the proper place.There are many people who claim that they are Christians but they are not.So you should follow what the bible says about Jesus.No matter what people even your pastor say.
“4) Jesus, according to what's been written, spoke against religion. And people went ahead and created a religion about him. How strange…very odd.”
Jesus didn’t talk against religion he came to clarify things that were misunderstood .Christianity is not a religion ,it is a relationship with God .You have to follow the leadership of The Holy Spirit that dwells in you .You should go deeper in you relationship with God and look for real Christians to guide you.

Anonymous said...

Yes, you are so right on. get this, i served with a certain mission board in a third world country for a year and a half. i too, come from a terribly dysfunctional family, but figured after all , that's who Jesus can use right? well, obviously not. after my term of service, i was considering staying on for more, and was informed by the leaders that I wasn't producing enough fruit due to my many "personal problems". Although they wouldn't say what those problems were or how to solve any of them. lol. It's just like a "good old boys club". If you come from the right family and have the right personality you fit, if not, better to count your losses. I hope the best for you in the future, it's true, you pointed out a major ludicrous point of the christians church.

.:webmaster:. said...

Religion:

• 1 the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. 2 a particular system of faith and worship. 3 a pursuit or interest followed with devotion.

Christianity:

• the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus Christ.

Anonymous said...

Ya know, just because there are "bad" Christians out there doesn't make Christianity false. You have to realize that people accept Jesus, they don't become Him. It's a long journey to become more like Christ and a lot of people stop right after salvation. And just saying a sincere prayer does not get you into heaven- God knows your heart more than you know it yourself. And yes, Jesus did talk about money- anyone read Luke 21:1-4? Give your tithe because He told you to. Don't hold back your tithe just because you think the pastor is putting it towards a new Caddy or something. God will reward you for your obedience and the pastor will get his someday. And yes, I know what it means to "walk in my shoes"- I was molested by my father my entire childhood, my mother beat me physically/mentally/emotionally, I was probably the most unpopular/friendless kid in school, I was involved in drugs (no alcohol), prostitution, have had 2 abortions, 3 marriages(2 husbandsa left and 1 was killed). Yeah the list goes on. God saved me. There is no way to live a "happy" life on my own without Him. Now I have hope and a purpose. Yeah, you can have a great job, house, wife and 2.3 kids but what does it all mean? If there is no God, then the meaning of life is to get married, have kids, and work at the office every day for 25 years then die??? Plus, if you don't believe in God, why are you getting married? It's an institution created by God. Plus some of you say that religion is meant for control. Who's in control? The church? You guys are so paranoid. And "Webmaster"...those definitions of religion and Christianity are just definitions from a another person. I am not in a religion. I am in a relationship. I really hope to see you guys standing with me at the end. Please don't give up.

brigid said...

This is funny. You insist that you are not in a religion, but you talk about tithing. That is jew religion. And then you talk about "the end". What is that but religion? And then "becoming more like christ". More religion. And then "marriage is created by god". More religion.

Sweetie, you have a religion, disquise it how you wish. Now I am going to get you to put your money where your mouth is. I am an atheist, a lesbian, and I am deeply in love with a woman. Does your god condemn me? If so, baby, guess what? You have a religion.

It is so funny to listen to you. Without god, you say, the meaning of life is to get married, have kids, and work at the office for 25 years. Where do you get that? I believe in no god, and the sun on my flesh is just as warm, and my beloved's touch is just as sweet. I am sorry that you allowed your life to get so screwed up and your only recourse was to go crawling and whining to your jew god. If you sunk to selling your body, then I am not surprized that you went crying to the jew-zoo.

Listen honey, you are talking to people who just grew up, that's all. Why don't you try it?

mq59 said...

Anonymous,

Might be better to do some research into the organizations you're giving money to and make sure that your money is going to the proper place rather just give blindly.

There are various "charity watch" organizations that keep an eye on admin salaries, where the money goes to, etc.

brigid said...

I wanted to add a few more things but I began to get angry and had to stop.

About you not having a religion: you talk about salvation. Salvation from what, hell? What is that but religion? You talk about getting into heaven--what is that but religion? Sorry, but thee hath a religion, like it or not. We have been there; done that. You can't bullshit the bullshitters.

Let me clue you into a few things. Do you know where this "relationship" crap comes from? During the '60's, it was cool to talk about your lovers as your "relationships". There was a spin-off from the hippie movement back then, called "jesus people" and otherwise known as "jesus freaks". They picked up on that stuff and began to talk about their "relationship" with the lord. I defy you to locate any use of the word "relationship" in reference to jesus prior to the '60's. It aint there.

Lorena said...

" Ya know, just because there are "bad" Christians out there doesn't make Christianity false."

No. It doesn't make it false. The faulty theology based on fables and folktales make it false.

Make no mistake. It was the fundamental beliefs of christianity that led me away from the church not the people.

Yes, a lot of them are assholes. But there are assholes everywhere. What is outrageous is that the religion promises to change people but it doesn't.

Whoever was bitter continues to be bitter and whoever was noble and nice continues to be nice.

I have to say this again.

The people in church suck but if the theology had been right, I would still be there. My article was meant to point out the inconsistencies in the teachings of Christianity and you fundies intead of addressing the main issues are clinging to periperal stuff that isn't even important.


Lorena

Lorena said...

".You should go deeper in you relationship with God and look for real Christians to guide you.

Stuff like this is what pists me off.
You know it all right? You are a christian and you know all things and all people.

How do you know that my relationship with god wasn't deep?

How do you know that I didn't hang out with "real" christians?

I think I did hang out with "real" christians, because they all had the obnoxious know-it-all attitude that you have.

Lorena

south2003 said...

Annoy,

Are saying that this deity desires a relationship with you and others like you? To WANT something is to LACK something and from what’s written about this god, it says it is perfect. Since it is perfect, how can it lack or want. If this being in perfect, it indicates it lacks nothing. It Can Not be lonely and Does Not need to be loved or have a relationship with.

A Relationship is to be on equal footing; therefore, you Can Not have a love relationship with someone who is Not your equal (according to your bible). If you do Not have a guaranteed eternal soul like your god, then you are worthless as a companion. If this god cannot respect your rights to exist independently, and the right to chose something else (or nothing) other than it, then it Do Not want to have a relationship but a dictatorship.

How can one have a relationship when it clearly shows that the other party dictates and controls through tyranny, using bully tactics and threats? If you play such games with people’s lives, I would call you insensitive, conceited, insecure, selfish and manipulative.

This threat of eternal torment might scar you into obedience, but it does nothing for me and it most definitely Do Not inspire any love. If your god is real, in the way it is described to owning everything, why should it be so upset about what I don’t give it?

Just in case you are confused about religiosity, here are all the religious words you used to identify what you stand for:
Christianity
God
Jesus
Christ
Salvation
Prayer
Heaven
Luke 21: 1-4
Pastor
Tithe
Church
“A better place”

south2003 said...

Annoy said: There is no way to live a "happy" life on my own without Him.

In an abusive relationship, you will definitely come away with that. Get some counseling.

Annoy said: Now I have hope and a purpose.

It took a book that was written over 2000+ years ago by Bronze Aged men to find hope and a purpose? Wow, how shallow. Everyday experiences in life do not count much for you and so your life is cheapened without you’re made up stories.

Annoy said: Yeah, you can have a great job, house, wife and 2.3 kids but what does it all mean?

What it means is that hard work and education does pay off. It means that it is good having a companion who is your equal and who respects and loves you and having children will guarantee that the human race will somehow continue. These things are very healthy bonds to have compared to your bible god’s threats of damnation (if you don’t love me back)

Annoy said: If there is no God, then the meaning of life is to get married, have kids, and work at the office every day for 25 years then die???

Sorry to bust your bubble, but many are continuing their lives without your religion or your god beliefs. What you are really saying is:

1) I have found a placebo

2) My placebo is my god beliefs

3) Therefore, everyone else should try my placebo

4) If you don’t try my placebo, then you will be left without hope and purpose just like me before I found my placebo.

Yeah, have a wonderful time wallowing in your self pity.

Bentley said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Bentley said...

That was a powerful message south2003. Thanks, Ben

Thackerie said...

Anonymous said: "Plus, if you don't believe in God, why are you getting married?"

OK, Sweetie, I DIDN'T get married. I've been "living in sin" (as you holier-than-thou types might say) with my man for nearly 20 years, and we have a good, strong, committed relationship that shows every sign of lasting until death parts us. Whereas two of your marriages ended with the man leaving you. So much for the advantages of being in an "institution created by god."

Anonymous said...

I am new to this site and I am not show I want to write this, what I am going to say. I must confess I have no right to say anything no claim to anything, claim to know very little, but one think that stood out to me was you did to that person that was trying share with you her personal experiences(and that's all they are)what had been done to you. I would like to have an honest discussion. I sense a lot of passion in people conversation.

Anonymous said...

I apologize it you do not understand my english is very poor

Jim Arvo said...

Anonymous,

It's somewhat refreshing to hear somebody say that they have no claims to make. I take that to mean that you will not be making dogmatic assertions about this or that supernatural entity; that's good. If you truly desire an honest (and I presume civil) discussion, there are a few things you can do to significantly increase the odds of that happening. You've already done one of them by NOT coming off as possessing all the answers, as many Christian visitors do. I suggest that you also adopt some name other than "Anonymous" by clicking on the "Other" button when you post. It gets very tiresome trying to disentangle all the various anonymous posters. Finally, I suggest that you try to be very specific in who you are addressing, so that participants don't need to read through all the comments to figure out who you're talking to.

Good luck.

mq59 said...

Sarge,

I posted this, but it apparently did not stick.

You said exactly what I meant (well, minus the criticism of God, but I imagine you understand what I'm referring to).

Thanks for the clarification.

Anonymous said...

M - To those of you who accuse the Christians of being know-it alls, or saying come off as thinking they know everything, my question to you is: How do you know they are wrong? Seem to me the same could be said of you. Why, you set their in Judgement of them - that must mean you actually think you know a bit more than them, otherwise, you would not be able to make a proper Judgement. So, who exactly is the Hypocrite?

.:webmaster:. said...

Anony-bot, I know less than a Christian, not more. Christians tell me that there is a god, that he had a son that was also him, that that son could fly, and that the son is going to slay all the yellow, red, and black and white, all the wicked in his sight, with a magic sword of fire that will be shooting out of his mouth.

Christians absolutely know that all this is true beyond a shadow of a doubt!

I know no such thing. Therefore, I know less than the Christians.

Anonymous said...

It's been over one year since i left the church and i am just now starting to feel much less fearfull! it's funny how you can fall pray to these beliefs- I guess it's because they all seem so nice! (lie)

after leaving i began to see that i didn't know how to protect myself. For me it was a boundries or not knowing them. Learning these tools in church was never going to happen. Many of these people were so dysfunctional themselves steping on many others personal as well as phcological boundries. How could anyone like that teach me anything ! I only learned that due to my sins i was now going to be mentally ill as a punishment. that is a lie right from the pits of hell!!! I almost died from the stress put upon me by these unloving people. I know know that all i needed to learn was proper boundries. God's love is free to each one of us no matter what religion you are! Love keeps no records of wrongs!!!

Anonymous said...

This is to the christion who makes the comment. how do you know the chritions are wrong? didn't jesus say I have come that you have life and have it more abundontly? alot of the christions out there are living lives that enslave them not set them free. one lady i got to know has been a christion for 20 years and had a nervious brackdown don't you think she would know better boundries after 20 years? I have been away from these teachings for only one year and have learned so much already. know that's real proof!!! That's not being a hypocrite!!

Anonymous said...

Jesus was an outcast to his own people! He said Father forgive them for they know not what they do! It's taken me some time but I have been able to slowly forgive these people for their unkindness and unforgiving addititude towards me. I know realize that i should have walked away. This is a life lesson that i wish i didn't have to learn. I still can't believe i took in this negitive way of being as the truth! How could somthing Good make you feel bad? I was angry at myself for being tricked!
How could i have believed that there was a real rapture? or that if my car broke down it was because of spiritual warfare! The devil did it! How stupid could i have been ? why didn't i walk away from them when it didn't make sence? I could have saved myself and many others a great deal of hurt! That's why i know that these beliefs are not true. Many times we were manipulated into going to church or bible studies as you can't be a good christion if you don't attend these functions. I was lead down a path of destruction by false teachings. I thank God for allowing me to see the truth in the mists of masive lies. Just recently i attended a funeral and the paster there was manipulating the crowd by making them feel guilty and fearful about there relatioinship with God. Then she wanted everyone to say the our father- I didn't say it as i was aware of her manipulation.

Anonymous said...

After being a christion for almost four years you begin to know the lingo - hey sister ! praise God! The Lord! Spiritual warefare ! THE DEVIL! the rapture! post, pre, trib,you know the way they think (teachings)- The body language - if thats not a cult i don't know what is!!! It's taken me along time to even get to this point emotionally. To even see that thay are wrong!!! I am finally free from the lies!

lied to said...

I would like to thank the person for having this web page for people to come. It has been great to be able to let others now how you feel! When you are challanged with who you are emotionally and pycologically this is a good outlet to bring you back into reality. My whole personality was brought under judgement by christion beliefs. They believe that i am an evil person! how do i face these people everyday? Many are doctors,nurses,lawyers or just what the community would consider upatanding people. Many of these people are really condemning of others me included. I live in a small town. I have thought of moving to another community but my husband will not. My own niece is going around town and gossiping about me. She goes to a pennycostal church. I now don't have any contact with my oun brother and his family anylonger due to their behavier towards me. I have cryed myself to sleep many nights not knowing what to do, How do i deal with this abuse? All i can do is realize they are wrong not have anything to do with them and to pity them for not understanding love. I ask for strength everyday to keep going.

it's not a long jurney said...

I just read a cmment that it is a long jurney to become a good christion- That's not true! If they were teaching the truth it wouldn't take as long as they are trying to make you believe. Learning boundries from somone who knows them wouldn't take long at all. instead you are taken down a path of mistrust and judement. The devil rules. If they really believed they would know how to teach boundries and that by learning these boundries would set each person free instead of taking on the belief that these people are evil many would be set free as i have. They would also realize that mental illness is not real either. Once you learn boundries freedom comes. love your neighbor as yourself. They were teaching me to be judgmental of others as well. just because you don't know boundries doesn't mean you are evil or a right off. love keeps no records of wrongs! he still loves you while you are in your sin. You will always be a sinner! why try to be perfect? It's in trying that we fail. Somone said to me the miniute you sin it's already forgotten i now believe this! love keeps no records of wrongs.

Dano said...

Anonymous wrote:
"After being a Christian for almost four years you begin to know the lingo -- hey sister! Praise God! The Lord! Spiritual warfare! THE DEVIL! the rapture! post, pre, trib, you know the way they think (teachings)- The body language -- if that's not a cult I don't know what is!!! It's taken me along time to even get to this point emotionally. To even see that they are wrong!!! I am finally free from the lies! "

Dano replies; That's, OK Anonymous. Welcome aboard! Hit the "OTHER" button, make up a catchy screen name, and stick around, Nothing has changed. You still are a member of the human race.

You were born "Cult free", and that's the way human nature designed us to be, and the way every man and woman was for several million years, until certain people elected themselves "Shaman"and "Priest", and "preacher", and found out that they could control the masses by pretending to know all about "God"

Now that you have discovered that you know as much about what created us as any person that ever lived or is living today, you can walk with your head held high.

The next time one of these religious robots starts preaching to you, you can tell him to "Stick it where the sun don't shine," and you will know that all of the quilt and fear they are peddling, in an effort control you has no effect any more.
Dan (Cult Free)

Bentley said...

Hi lied to,

I became weepy-eyed when I read your story, because it relates so much to me too. My family is under the conviction of the religious mental disease called religion.

They are so self-righteous and judgmental towards anyone that does not jump through the same religious hoops that they do, their aim in life is to; Please Jesus! So I finally brokedown and told them that I no longer believed in Jesus or the Bible God and they sunk down deep inside, and by saying what I said, it just confirmed their silly childhood beliefs more and they became more introverted towards me and my wife or anyone that does not go around announcing their love for the imaginary jesus, the donkey chaser.

But just let a preacher or a church member walk up to them, their demeaner completely changes, their eyes start glowing and instant praise starts comming out towards the preacher and his family and they will ask about the church members, like they have this deep full concern for their well being.

As quick as the preacher leaves, the religious switch gets turned off and there's no longer a respect towards me and my wife, not like the well deserving preacher got, anyway!

Also the preacher has been blatantly rude to me in front of my parents, because I do not lick his ass, most all of them are arrogant SOB's, with their head swelled by the members.

It's the same in the community that I live here too, so I know completely how you feel, but you have friends here, we all know just what you're going through, there's a couple of anonymous posts above yours, saying the same thing, people are slowly coming around to realize it's all a hoax and a religious put-on.

Please click on my name and read my blog and tell me what you think, I think you'll agree we see things alike. Also click on Lorena's name she has a wonderful blog and offers much insight and wisdom.

My dear friend you're certainly not alone, this is a wonderful website to read and keep in touch with us heathen outcasts, (we're not heathen, really it's them).

Churches and religions are a lickity-lick ass club, that's all they have ever been.

ben - lied to !! said...

ben lied to !!
it's so hard when you lose family members to intolorence. If these teachings were the truth would they not become more tolerent and loving of you ? I now believe that at some point in the church things were broken down and true love has become masked in self rightiousness and false belief. legalism seems to be the norm! I believe you are the ones that the bible talks about - brother and sister will be seperated. only they think that they are right but in truth you are. there eyes have been closed for now to religion and wrong belief. Your family does not need to be treated like dirt. you may have to step away for awhile and hope they come to their sences (we did). good luck!!

Anonymous said...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/did-jesus-die-interview.shtml

Anonymous said...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/did-jesus-die-interview.shtml

ApostateLiberalEvilDoer said...

Well put, Lorena...in my own experience, those who were (for any reason) on the margins of society when "in the world," remain on the margins of the "Christian life." So Jesus changes our lives...how?

another anony said...

WOW! It still amazes me the sheer number of those who have suffered miserably in the name of Christianity! For years I thought I was part of the minority - on the outside. My heart cries and soul aches for all those who have endured hardship, hostility, loneliness, rejection and worse from those calling themselves Christians.

My particular story is irrelevant in this discussion. No doubt each of us has lived a life that has been "hell" to us individually without comparing it to how hellish someone else's life may have been. A study of the Bible and research of its teachings while including a study of contemporary culture at the times of its authorship is very revealing of God's love of all and acceptance of all who will accept Him.

The faith/works discussion was confusing to me until it was explained to me as follows: A doctor can call himself one and may have all the skills, but if he never uses his skills how would anyone know he is a doctor (aside from the Dr before his name). A mechanic can call himself one, but if he never uses his skills.... The analogy can be repeated endlessly. The entrapment in Christianity comes when someone believes (or more likely is taught) that, beyond a few universal qualities that separate all "nice people" from the not so nice, every Christian should fit into a single mold (look, behavior, speech, etc.). Not everyone is a doctor, mechanic, artist, scientist, waitress, etc. Just as there exists diversity in occupations, so the individuality among Christians should be welcomed and seen as an asset.

From my experience, generally Christians are, like everyone, constantly seeking to improve their lives on all levels, including the spiritual level. But many churches find it easier to control their members by either directly or indirectly communicating a legalistic set of standards under the guise of being "more Christian" (not necessarily found in the Bible), and disassociating anyone who doesn't naturally fit within those standards. It isn't right. Just like those junior high and high school cliques that operate on a policy of exclusion and emotionally scar the objects of their attack, so such legalistic churches severely scar those who are seeking to understand the God of the Bible.

I hope that this post doesn't come across as pious or superior. It sounds as though Christians with a strong opinion aren't exactly welcomed here! HAHA! ...and I can understand why. Like I said, I have been there. My hope however, is that those of you who read this will ponder seriously some of what is written, applying an open mind. Best to each of you!

livingfree said...

I stumbled across this website for the first time today. What I am seeing is some very real accusations against the "church."
I wish I could defend all the accusations -- but the truth is, I have seen them myself.
Christianity - true Christianity should not be confused with churchanity.
I struggled for years - alcohol had a grip on me - my former lifestyle caused me all kinds of grief in areas of lust.
I strived, I pushed, I worked, I yearned to be a "good Christian" and I failed everytime. FINALLY I accepted who I am - and I accepted what JESUS was wanting to do for me. I quit STRIVING and started TRUSTING. I am a new creation -- not perfect by any stretch -- but slowly and daily being transformed. Still probably more of a worm than a butterfly -- but I have freedom from addictions that I could have never get free from in my own strength.



Folks, I'm sorry that the church has wounded you. BUT look again - one more time -- Has Jesus let you down??

Remember what Jesus said, "Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven - only those who do my Father's will."

I'm convinced that many people who go to church have never discovered a RELATIONSHIP with the Living Lord - -

I also question all the bitterness.

I don't think that unbelief causes bitterness -- but dissapointment causes bitterness.

I don't beleive in elves, or little green men with four leaf clovers, or Santa Clause -- but I have no emotional war going on against such things. Just the fact that you HATE God -- kind of sends the message that you beleive he exists.

freeman said...

livingfree,

I don't hate god because I don't believe in it! You cannot hate what does not exist.

I never had a personal relationship with jesus because he is an imaginary figure!

Everyone was forced into the belief system that they are in, it takes an open mind to absorb and comprehend that christianity is a mythology just like all other religions past and present. We here consider ourselves to be lucky to have been "shown the way", so to speak!

Gregory said...

Livingfree, you've just exchanged one mind numbing habit for another.

Who told you to start drinking in the first place? Who was it?

YOU!!!!!!

Now you can get drunk on jesus, they are both useless.

Just stay drunk on jesus and you'll keep your mind fooled until YOU, decide to quit, just like we did, we quit our bad habits and gave up on jesus. It's the very same affect, mental escape from reality, that's just what you were doing with alcohol.

You're now hiding from the fear of death through religion.

J. C. Samuelson said...

livingfree,

"Christianity - true Christianity should not be confused with churchanity."

Many of us here have made similar statements in the past. This being your first time visit, you are probably unaware of how many Christians come here talking about True Christianty™ and how we never experienced it. Such assertions are asinine.

We have tasted of the vine and it is sour.

"I struggled for years - alcohol had a grip on me - my former lifestyle caused me all kinds of grief in areas of lust."

If Christianity has made your life better, I'm glad for you provided you don't take the Great Commission to the extremes that most Evangelicals do. No one has the right to intrude into the lives of others, tell them how to live, demonize those they don't like, or impose their beliefs on the nation through our governmental system.

"I'm convinced that many people who go to church have never discovered a RELATIONSHIP with the Living Lord..."

Another common Evangelical talking-point. Many have had that relationship (or at least believed so), but found it to be dysfunctional and unsustainable in the face of reason.

"I also question all the bitterness."

You shouldn't. Many of us poured ourselves wholeheartedly into our spiritual lives, only to find we could no longer believe. In the process of deconversion, many experienced the loss of friends and family who could not or would not understand.

"Just the fact that you HATE God -- kind of sends the message that you beleive he exists."

Not exactly. Pointing out the injustice and cruelty of the biblical God does not necessarily imply belief. It's rather like an attitude of incredulity. How could a supposedly loving and just God allow, or in some cases perpetrate, injustice or cruelty on his creation? It's the realization that all that talk about a God of love and justice is bullshit.

boomSLANG said...

living-"free" said: "Just the fact that you HATE God -- kind of sends the message that you beleive he exists."

Ummm, if that tooth of yours falls out, do you believe that if you leave it under your pillow at night, that money will appear the next morning? What?....no?...you don't believe it? Oh, okay.....so you must "HATE" the tooth fairy then, right?....::eyeroll::

seeker said...

As a pastor I am learning there is a big difference between being a Christian and being a follower of the teachings of Jesus! I was, sadly, a christian for many years. I have fallen away from the arrogant presumption that I am so much like Jesus that I can call myself a little Christ (actual meaning of Christian) instead I am following, learning and, for the first time, loving people. I felt this forum was a good place to come clean. I have been a gay basher, a war promoter and a republican right winger. I am thankful to be able to say that I have been "saved" form that brand of salvation and opened to a new way of life. Following the simple, humble teachings of Christ. I am a follower. I ask your forgiveness for what I did as a "christian"

boomSLANG said...

The Pastor who is a former Christian said: "I am thankful to be able to say that I have been 'saved' form that brand of salvation and opened to a new way of life. Following the simple, humble teachings of Christ."

Oh good, but I'm curious---where will we heathens spend eternity then?... since you are no longer a "Christian", and thus, no longer believe in salvation as Christians know it?

Bentley said...

No, no, he's elected himself above xtians, he's risen above xtains, he's now a (bona fide "True" follower of Christ), he's not down there wallowing with those filthy infidel xtains, he's already self-elected himself pastor before, he now finds it more convenient, he now feels more spiritually superior to have self-appointed himself a follower of Christ!

"I am a follower. I ask your forgiveness for what I did as a "christian" a lowly xtain, bah thew spit on the ground!!!

Next he'll be self-electing himself a Prophet or Apostle or Disciple or Angel of God! All angels are male, BTW!

You very rarely hear of women self-electing themself's religious titles, ever wonder why? Because the Bible was written by men, for men, to save men, to control men, women and slaves are excluded and always have been excluded, why can't people see this, I do not understand!

webmdave said...

I don't want to be posting on exChristian.net! Waaah!

But I hear ya, author of the above post. Something is NOT RIGHT with the religion Christianity. Jesus is awesome, but this monstrosity that has evolved (ha! I said a bad word!) from the teachings of the apostles is so out of whack with the actual teachings of Jesus.

I can never walk away from Jesus. My faith is built on real experiences with a very real Being of Divine Love I know by the name of Jesus. NO teaching will ever change that. No crappy experience in a crappy church or with crappy Christians will ever change that.

But more and more every day I see how I don't belong, not with this crowd. What will become of us? We are not alone in this. I so much want Christ and even to hang out with other people who have similar experience. But I don't want organized Christianity. What to do?

webmdave said...

<<"What to do?">>

Since you asked....

I am only speaking for myself, but my experience is not uncommon. It's not a matter of rejecting christ so much as it is more of a realization that there is no Jesus the Christ because there is no objective proof that he even existed. Christianity, however, while it certainly exists, has its foundation built on lies, myths, and politics. I had no major issues or disappointments with churches I attended. Most of my family is christian, including my spouse, and I certainly don't reject them. I do reject their silly beliefs. I am no more disappointed in the christian god than I am in zeus, thor, or the easter bunny. However people who refuse to evaluate their religion logically and objectively disappoint me to no end.

Perhaps these websites (along with a thorough read of the testimonials on this website) will offer some answers to your curiosity.


http://jesusneverexisted.com/

http://godisimaginary.com/

http://pocm.info./

http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/index2.html

http://www.evilbible.com/

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/08/06/p18661

http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/

http://trinity-exposed.blogspot.com/2006/10/what-really-happened-at-nicea.html

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/christianity/apologetics.html

webmdave said...

"Happy Reading."

LOL!

shadowspring: "Jesus is awesome, but this monstrosity that has evolved (ha! I said a bad word!) from the teachings of the apostles is so out of whack with the actual teachings of Jesus."

Gee, I don't know, I'd say any individual who would throw a temper-tantrum and curse a fruit-tree because it didn't produce fruit when he or she wanted it, is most definitely out. of. whack!......

"Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, 'May you never bear fruit again!' Immediately the tree withered." ~ Matthew 21:19

webmdave said...

Howabout GROW UP!

webmdave said...

I've been saying what the poster has for a very long time.

As for what the first person posting in the comments- a riddle for you- if this isnt the religion jesus wanted- why is he not fixing it?

Most likely answer- he doesnt EXIST.