ARCHIVES:

Posts in this section were archived prior to February 2010. For more recent posts, go to the HOME PAGE.

Archived Articles

2/04/2007                                                                                       View Comments

I got gypped

By DagoodS

Well, I saw the inevitable. I was about to become a heathen. A "them." An unsaved, hell-going, apostate, infidel non-Christian. I was curious what was to unfold next.

As a Christian we had spent long hours discussing heathens. Since we were to be in the world, but not a part of it, it was extremely important to understand the distinction. We talked about heathens in movies, heathens on Television, heathens in music, here-a-heathen, there-a-heathen, everywhere-a-heathen. We heard testimonies of former heathens. Gossiped of back sliding Christians becoming heathens.

Oh, we knew heathens all right. And I was about to transform into one. I did what any self-respecting heathen-in-the-making would do.

I bought a gun.

See, we were certain that God established an absolute morality. Why, without a God, what was to keep a person from robbing a bank? Nothing, of course! How many times had we craftily caught the heathen by demonstrating that there was nothing to prevent them from doing what they want whenever they want, and the oft-used example was that nothing would keep them from armed robbery.

I reasoned that I would be assured the instant I had graduated to a full-blown heathen, when I woke up and had the desire to do a little “extra” withdrawal from the bank, and my complete lack of morality would dive in to the escapade. And I needed to be ready. Thus the gun.

True, it was with a mixture of reluctance (I did not look forward to my prison boyfriend, “Monster”) and some trepidation (one doesn’t go on a five-state robbery spree without a little anxiety!) But…when my morality slipped away, I thought those feelings would pass.

But then day after day, I woke up and no robbery compulsion overcame me. I was pretty certain there was no God. Yet I still had this frustrating morality clinging to me. What was I doing wrong?

Maybe I needed to start off small. Perhaps one works into this heathen thing. I stopped at a convenience store with the intent to swipe some cigarettes. (I don’t smoke, so I figured this was a “two-fer.”) And as I looked and looked at that pack…nothing. No desire at all. In fact, every time I thought about taking them, all that morality actually made we want to do the exact opposite—NOT steal them. Damn!

Dejected, I left the store with no crime committed. Not heathen enough yet, I guessed.

I tried mugging a lady. Ended up helping her. Went to punch a kid. Played with him instead. In fact, the more I tried to engage into this moral-less existence, the worse I was at it. Finally, I gave up and just lived my life.

It’s been more than two years. Oh, I keep my gun cleaned and well-oiled in the off chance that my full heathenness kicks in, but it seems less and less likely each day.

Well, I was also told I would be miserable. We heard of all these grumpy atheists who barely enjoyed life without Jesus. Some of the most fascinating testimonies were of the Pimp Lords who had drugs, cash, cars and women galore, yet assured us that they were miserable in this life because they did not have Jesus.

My Christianity was an integral part of me. Losing it was similar to the grieving process. Now this was more like it! I really WAS miserable. My family abandoned me. My friends left. My wife was seriously considering divorce.

Yet as time passed, I became less and less miserable. My wife and I worked on our situation rather than running from it. My true friends slowly started to come back. My family…well, they stayed away. I found I was getting happier and happier again. Back to my old self.

No, no, no, no, no, no, NO! To be a true heathen I have to be miserable! Here I was just as happy as before.

I tried memorizing miserable sayings, hoping I could use them:

“You dang kids get out of my yard!””Bah! Humbug.”
“What’s so great about it?”
“And I would have gotten away with it, too—if it hadn’t been for you kids and that dog!”

No use. I went back to be the life of the party. The person that seems perpetually happy-go-lucky. The guy with the smile. Reluctantly, I am not miserable.

Hmm. O.K. I was also completely convinced that heathens had no consideration for fellow humans and that the reason they avoided Christianity was that it required loving others. Maybe now I could hate everybody?

As you can imagine—I had little luck in this area either. Worse, I could no longer push up a prayer and figure that the Superman in the Sky could solve those people’s problems better than I ever could.

No, taking care of humanity became my sole problem. I committed more to charity than I ever did before. I can no longer pass people by; I must care for them ‘cause no one else will.

By now I am quite discouraged. I do not think I am getting this heathen thing right at all!

We were told that heathens were heathens because they hate going to church. They wanted to sleep in on Sunday Morning. (I lost on this, too. I attended church on Saturday night.)

In fact, I attempted to continue with church. But I informed them I was a heathen (at least I thought so) and I wanted to come to church.

“You are a WHAT? Well…uh…see…you are supposed to be over there, and not want to be over here. We talk about you being over there because you hate being over here and if you leave over there and join us over here, it causes many who are over here, but think nobody over there wants to be over here to be confused about who should be over there. We never plan on somebody from over there ever being over here, so we really don’t have anything over here for someone from over there.

“Look, can you just go over there, so those of us over here can rest easy that you want to be over there?”

I give up.

Now I just live—appreciating every bit of humanity of myself and those about me. It would seem I would not become the next “American’s Most Wanted” nor lounge about my house in a dirty bathrobe and yell at neighborhood children.

I love my life, but I can’t help think that somehow I got gypped when I became heathen. The package was nothing like the Christians promised me it would be.

55 comments:

Steven Bently said...

Listen my dear heathen infidel friend, without a belief in JESUS, you are basically NOTHING..!! Your Net Worth as a human being, is lower than dog puke!! Without a belief in JESUS you are in fact a bona fide BARBARIAN....Anyone that does not believe in JESUS deserves a roasting eternal HELL Of Torment..!!! (Extreme heavy sarcasm here!)

All you got to do is believe in Jesus with all your Heart, and your free trip to Heaven with luxury accomodations will be provided for you and your invisible soul.

And plus if you will believe with all your Heart, that the Moon is made of Green Cheese and Heavy Cream, you can win a free trip to a place better than Heaven, where the Most-high God's really live and party, much more fancyier than Heaven.

All anyone has to do is believe with their Heart, add a little faith and you're good to go, done.

Lester said...

Ok, I can imagine peoples souls in Heaven, lets see a soul...hmmmm? What does a soul look like? Is a soul invisible, can only God and Jesus see our souls? Is the soul heart shaped?

Lets say that millions or billions of souls make it into heaven because they have been saved by the grace of God of course, what will it look like with billions of souls flying around like knats over a piece of rotten meat swarming around Jesus as he graciously steps along the meadows repeating Holy Scripture and Praise for God.

What exactly is a soul, is it a shadow of our former selves?

Can anyone describe what a soul really is and is it visible?

Can a soul be burned by fire?

Micah Cowan said...

Awesome. Simply, awesome.

Jamie G. said...

I got gypped, too! Great article. I have a gun, too....but that's because I am a cop and they tend to come in handy on the job.

Anonymous said...

a soul can die.

Astreja said...

'Nony: "A soul can die."

Perhaps. If it actually existed and if it had "life".

Start by proving that it exists; then, identify *what* it is. Only then will we be in a position to consider its aliveness and susceptibility to dying.

boomSLANG said...

Dualist: a soul can die.

Superstitions can die, too....and gawd, I wish they'd all hurry it up.

Let's help. Okay...what is a "soul", and in what part of the physical body does the "soul" reside? Waiting.

jfraysse said...

What a Hoot! But methinks you may have forgotten one other possibility. Maybe you were NEVER a “True Heathen”!? You know, “True Heathenry” is not what most non-Heathen and Heathen think. True Heathen MUST say and do the “right things” according to wise and learned Fundamentalists Heathen who base their Dogma and “knowledge” of the “silent but deadly” Heathen God on their interpretation of the Heathen Bible and its infallible texts. Repent, lest ye rejoice forever in Heaven!

I know this is bad, but I can’t help it. The Bears Lost the Super Bowl - Obviously, a bunch of True Heathen! !grin!

tigg13 said...

If you really want to become a true heathen, you've got to start small and work your way up.

Driving just over the speed limit, jay walking, telling little white lies - and covetting! You can't go wrong with covetting!

Eventually you'll get the hang of it and proceed on to greater and greater evil deeds such as conducting pagan rituals and voting Democrat.

And before you know it - BINGO! You'll have a completely subjective moral point of view!

(insert maniacal laughter)

Goodness is as goodness does!

Sarge said...

Very, very good! I'm reminded of when I was a teenager, and I bought a motorcycle. My parents were convinced that I was hanging around with drug addicts (well, fair do's, they thought I was doing that, anyway, even though I wasn't), criminals, riding wildly through the night terrorizing, the solid burgher folk, drinking, and consorting with loose women, flicking switch blades at people.

I would listen in rapt fascination as they detailed these things, wondering when these marvelous, great things would happen to me!!?? They never did, I just rode it to work and about my business. Yet this vehicle seemed to make me a 'bad' kid.

Once a parent took her children out of a program which I'm a member of because I am an atheist. I was one of the positive influences in their life (SHE said) and this really couldn't be allowed, she was raising her children 'in the church', and that meant that atheists were to be typified as as you said. I wasn't living up (or down) to her portrayal, and she said I was a danger to her children. To their souls.

Haven't shot anyone since 1971, never robberd a bank, never cheated on my wife, never harmed a kid. As I deal with many teenagers, I must confess myself to have, on occasion, conquered a strong desire to apply the broad of my foot to a teen age fundement (luckily, I only have one leg that works properly) and I can usually uncurl the 'Fist of Death' after I count to five.

Anonymous said...

And the LORD GOD formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
BODY is the combination of flesh, bone, nerves, organs, glands,etc.
SOUL is the combination of senses
such as tasting,seeing,hearing
smelling and touching which make
us aware. It is this part of a human that experiences pleasure
or the lack of pleasure.
SPIRIT is the combination of thoughts,attitudes,imaginations and motivations that are housed in the
soul and express a state of spiritual "life" or "death."

The soul that sinneth,it shall die.
For the wages of sin is death.
It is Jesus' part to save our souls
but it is our part to possess what he has saved. Our souls are vessels
for our spirits and God's Spirit.

Yolanda said...

Anonymous, that's your opinion.

Experience is the best teacher. We don't know if the soul is real or not; what we do know is that we are here on planet Earth experiencing real life! And we have the tools to make life better for each other.

spirula said...

SOUL is the combination of senses
such as tasting,seeing,hearing
smelling and touching which make
us aware.


So, Helen Keller only had 3/5's of a soul?

Idiot.

.:webmaster:. said...

Anonymous,

That's an interesting mystical teaching on the soul you've adopted. You do realize that there is not a single Bible verse that supports your viewpoint, don't you?

Not one!

Anti-Almost-Everything said...

Cool!

I was supposed to become a gay, pimp, drug-lord, world dictator...

but strangely, I'm still me. A happier version. Shame...

Frank said...

anonymous wrote: (And the LORD GOD formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.)

Questions?

If man is formed of the dust, howcome we do not melt when it rains?

If the fish are made of the dust, howcome they do not disintegrate in water?

If we are made up of 75% water, how come we're not 75% dust and 25% water?


(The SOUL is the combination of senses such as tasting,seeing,hearing
smelling and touching which make
us aware.)

So every living creature has a soul, according to you.

boomSLANG said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
boomSLANG said...

Anonymous: SOUL is the combination of senses
such as tasting,seeing,hearing
smelling and touching which make
us aware.

ROFLMAO!!!!

Okay, Dr. Anon...so like, in "Heaven" there will be a bunch of eyeballs, eardrums, tongues, fingers, and olfactory nerves aimlessly floating around? lol!.....good stuff!..PRICELESS!

Waiting on an educated Christian and/or proponent of dualism to shed some light on what a "soul" is, and where it resides in the physical body.

Nvrgoingbk said...

Wow! What a great start to my day! THat was an awesome post. What a wonderfully creative and witty way to say exactly what I wish I had said myself! Great job!

Anonymous, regardless of whether we actually possess this spirit-thingy you speak of, can you tell me where exactly it goes afterward, because people around the world seem to disagree.

All of these Near-death Experiences can really throw a person off. Shit, Muslims have them and are convinced there really is an Allah in the sky, Christians have them and see Jesus, Asians have them and see Buddha, Hindus have them and see Vishnu. I'm very confused. I guess the only valid NDE's are those of Christians. It's Satan that is meeting those heathen at their death in the form of some other God so that he can mislead them, or maybe they're just flat out lying, right?

Shit, there is documented evidence" that "proves" the existence of ghosts and hauntings as well; guess those poor souls didn't have a personal god, so they're just doomed to wander around aimlessly throwing dishes and slamming doors, and having sex with the living.

You're an idiot

Dano said...

The problem is, that once you "OUT" your heatheness the word gets around, and anybody who may have committed casual heathenality with you before, now won't touch you with a ten foot pole.

I submit that your very state of heatheness, decreases exponentially, your chances of doing fun heathen things.

It's been my observation that the best way to get a lot of heathen stuff, is to be a hick preacher, or televangelist.
Dan (What's a heathen to do?)

Anonymous said...

Your all carnal minded thats your problem. Unless a man be born again He cannot see the kingdom of God.
Your hopeless with God.

Spirula said...

Your(sic)hopeless with God.

Now THAT is one fundy comment I can agree with.

truthiness said...

Anonymous wrote:

"Your all carnal minded thats your problem. Unless a man be born again He cannot see the kingdom of God.
Your hopeless with God."

Firstly,There were no posts from your heathen antagonists that were even remotely "carnal" or sexual in nature.
And secondly,the last line"Your hopeless with God." has two mistakes.The first mistake actually makes the line correct as you typed WITH instead of WITHOUT; and YOUR should be spelled YOU'RE.
Thanks for the laughs nontheless.

boomSLANG said...

Fundonymous retorted: Your all carnal minded thats your problem.

No, our problem is that you, and millions like you, still cling to out-dated, out-moded, bronze-aged, bullshit superstitions.

Fundonymous continued: Unless a man be born again He cannot see the kingdom of God.

If you'd grow up the first time, you wouldn't need to be "born again". And furthermore, we "cannot see the kindom of God" for the same reason you cannot, and will not, see it---IT DOESN'T EXIST...just like your "soul", your Jebus, and the toothfairy don't exist.

Fundonymous closes with: Your hopeless with God.

We're hopeless, as a society, living amongst uneducated superstitious people. BTW, the contraction for "you are" is "you're", not "your". You should at least get THAT part right if you're going to insist on hanging around and getting your apologetic a$$ kicked.

'Still waiting on any Christian and/or proponent of dualism to tell us what a "soul" is, and where it resides, since Anony' has failed miserably in doing so.

Waiting.

DagoodS said...

Actually, anonymous, I am not “carnal minded” and that has me worried. Kinda the point of the blog entry, in case you missed it.

(And I hope it is the same anonymous. If I misquote “anonymous” as being attributed to “anonymous” when really it was “anonymous” I hope you can forgive me. You have to admit, the names are remarkably similar.)

“Spirit” to the Jewish writers of the Tanakh, meant the breath of life. If one was breathing, they had Spirit. If not—they didn’t. For the authors, life started, and ended with breath. So, too, one’s Spirit.

I am a bit curious about the soul “dying.” When? And do you have a verse that refers to that? Is it in Hell? Matt. 10:28? And is it God that destroys the soul, or Satan in that verse? If we are spiritually dead, when do our souls come alive?

Can a soul sin, but a person not? Paul would indicate that the body, soul AND spirit could separately sin, if you took him literally. 1 Thess. 5:23. (Note: I do not. Paul uses the term of “soul” as in a person—like “Bless my soul” or “You poor soul.” Not as a separate entity.) Interestingly, even the concept of a Spiritual Spirit was a developing theology for Paul. Didn’t talk of such a thing in his first book, 1 Thess.

By Romans, it is all we hear about it.

JShuey said...

Steven, et al...

It took me a while, but I finally figured it out. The reason we nonbelievers don't behave as badly as the Xtians expect us to (and indeed behave themselves) is that we're lazy.

Like you, I bought a gun. Still haven't had the gumption to stick anybody up, much less shoot someone.

I guess that, as heathens, we're both failures. Whoda thunk it?

Yule Goat 2 Hell said...

"SOUL is the combination of senses such as tasting,seeing,hearing smelling and touching which make us aware."

BULL-HOCKEY!

All these senses depend on physical organs and biological processes that don't exist after you've died. Heck, you don't even have to be dead for your "soul" to be rendered less than adequate - a simple sinus cold will do it.

You fundies really are dumb as shit, aren't you?

Anonymous said...

my education or my spelling will not save my soul.Only faith in Jesus Christ can.
If Jesus had not poured out his soul
unto death, if His soul had not been
made an offering for sin, and if God had not raised him from the dead, then our dead souls could never have been made alive through Jesus Christ.
but now, if our natural bodies are destroyed,our souls can be asleep in Christ.It was for that reason
that Jesus was telling His disciples not to fear them which kill the soul: but rather fear Him
(Jesus Christ) who can destroy both
soul and body in hell (in the grave
without any hope of a resurrection)
(MATTHEW10:28;lUKE12:4-5). Jesus
Christ is the one that has the keys
of hell and of death (Rev 1:18);
unto Him belong the issues from death (Psa.68:20). He is the only one that can redeem our souls from the power of the grave (from death
and hell).Even though we all stand before the judgment seat of Christ here on earth,and we are all recompensed in the earth for the good and evil we do, the final reward of our deeds is either eternal life or eternal death. The wages of sin is [eternal] death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans6:23).God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him [believe to the saving of the soul-Hebrews 10:39] should not perish [eternal death] but have everlasting life (John 3:16). As righteousness tendeth to life: so he that pursueth evil pursueth to his on death [of soul] (Prov.11:19).Paul, in speaking to those that have the baptism of the Holy Spirit, to those that are born again, to his brethren, said,If you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body [the lusts and desires],you shall live Rom.8:13). Jesus made it very clear that if a Holy Spirit baptized person would keep His sayings(His commandments), he would never see death (of the soul) (John 8:51-52;11:26;3:36). In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death (Prov.12:28), no death of soul. We know that we must die physically, but our soul will either have everlasting life or everlasting death. It is a matter of life and death.

.:webmaster:. said...

Anonymous,

Apart from quoting your holy book and stating your religious group's interpretation of that holy book, how do you know that any of what you just posted is true?

Astreja said...

Well, Anonymous does have one thing right. Neither education nor spelling can "save" something that doesn't exist.

'Nony, are you really so scared of death that you want to live *forever*? I find that very sad.

Stop being so attached to MeMeMe (insert your name here). Dump the silly-ass theology with all the unto's and believeth-ing. Get out there and live the only life that "you" will ever have.

Anonymous said...

How do I know it's true. I know it's
true because God said it [His Holy Book]. I believe it [Faith] and it's true.But as many as received him,[by faith]to them gave he power to become the sons of GOD, even to them that believe on his name.
But He that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.(prov.8:36)
I know it's true because I BELIEVE yes I BELIEVE and I have a relationship with Jesus. I'm praying for you. Jesus loves you and wants to save you.For God sent
not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned:but he that believeth not
is condemned already,because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten SON of GOD. And
this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light,because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be manifest, that they are wrought in God.(John3:17-21)
Jesus is Lord.

tigg13 said...

Anonymous' post (the condensed version)

I think I'm right because I think I'm right!

Preach preach blah blah piss moan piss moan.

You are all evil wretches that deserve an eternity of agony. But, if you will blindly believe in the rantings of some anonymous dickhead, then you will live forever!

Jesus was fertilizer!

Steven Bently said...

A God that created over 125 billion gallaxies in six days, can daily regulate the temperature of our Sun to around 11,000 degrees, he knows the combination of every molecular structure, he regulates every gravitational field, he can travel trillions faster than the speed of light.

But this God is weak, he cannot save invisible souls on his own, he had to send for help, this God just loves sacrifices, especially if it's kin to him, therefore he sent his only (begotten) son to be a sacrifice and murdered just to save souls, makes a lot of sense, don't ye think?

Some 4000 years later...!

Instead of whoever will believe in God, now it is whoever will believe in Jesus, will have eternal life.

So God turned over the dutys of saving souls to his son, because it was just becoming way too much preasure for God to keep up with the demands of the universe and catalog and write down all the saved souls and the one's not willing to believe in Jesus that are going to Hell.

Makes a lot of sense, don't ya think?

I have Faith that the Bible is true.

I have Faith that the Koran is true.

I have Faith that Santa Claus is true.

I have Faith that the Harry Potter stories are true.

But I know not by faith, deep down inside in all reality and by intellectual honesty, that it's all human fabricated lies.

Dano said...

To, about the millionth anonymous airhead who isn't smart enough to figure out how to click on the "other" button and make up a screen name.

Let me see if I have this correct now.

God gets all of the simple minded "credulous" people in heaven.

Satan get all of the thinkers, scientists, skeptics, "Non credulous people" in hell.

If you have a proclivity to believe everything anybody tells you. If you are naive. If you are child like, you will go to heaven and associate with fools forever.

If you are grown up, ask questions, demand answers, are skeptical of supernatural things, you will burn in hell forever with the smartest and brightest, the thinkers.

Who thought this up?
Dan (Oh! I think I already know! The thousands and thousands of ancient anonymous, illiterate, gullible, simpleminded, naive, credulous people who contributed to the writing of the Bible)

Anonymous said...

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.(John 3:7)

xrayman said...

Anonymous,
I've been coming to this site for a little over nine months now and I really thought I was an atheist to the core, but there is something about the way you laid it all out. Your words from the Bible have convinced me beyond a resonable doubt, that I have been wrong. Please pray for me.....You have shown me the way....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT !!!!!!!!!!!!

What a bunch of horse shit. The old circular reasoning concept is rearing it's ugly head. I believe the Bible is the word of God because the Bible says it's the word of God.

What a wonderful article at the top of this page. To the author: Fucking Brilliant, just Fucking Brilliant.

Steven Bently said...

John, who was John, Jesus's pimp?

Anonymous said...

Be careful you're talking like a real HEATHEN. It seems to me you spend
a lot of time trying to convince yourselves that there is no GOD,
But you have no proof. Just a bunch of Educated Heathens opinions. By the way a heathen is a heathen any way you look at it,but there is hope.
Jesus can save a heathen that's why He came and died and with that I'll leave you .
Give not that which is holy unto dogs,neither cast ye your pearls
before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. (matthew 7:6)

Wes said...

Bwa ahahahaa! Another idiotic anonymous poster rambling on like a lunatic. Har har! Thanks for the laugh, Fucktard! Hee hee! -Wes.

tigg13 said...

Anonymous said, "But you have no proof. Just a bunch of Educated Heathens opinions."

As opposed to uneducated religious claptrap.

You know, you just have to wonder, if jesus really loved us heathens and wanted to save us, wouldn't he be sending believers to this site who actually said something ... oh, I don't know ... intelligent, meaningful, enlightening, or, at the very least, original?

Steven Bently said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Steven Bently said...

To anonymous above,

If the Bible is true, then these conditions are real and verifiable outside of the Bible:

the world is only six thousand years old
dinosaurs never existed
the world is flat and the earth is the center of the universe
the Sun goes around the earth
demons, invisible spirits, ghosts, holy ghosts, demons, angels, exist
snakes, bushes, and donkeys, can talk
virgin birth is possible
god and jesus live in the clouds above
prayer has secret powers over this god
miracles and blessing do occur
invisible souls can either be saved or unsaved, depending on what a person decides to believe in their heart
the heart is the center of all thought and emotion
people can talk to god and jesus with their heart
there is no such thing as a brain
people can be raised from the dead
people can walk on water
water can be turned into wine
5000 people can easily be fed with two loaves and two fishes
only invisible jesus can save invisible souls
diseases are caused by demons
the study of science is of the devil
a person can live in the belly of a whale for three days and nights

Guess what xtians? We do not believe this shit..!!! We got gypped, you got gypped..!

Dano said...

Who believes that a sacrifice of a human is significant? Who are the REAL HEATHENS?

I think it is the Christians who slobber all over themselves, because God had himself, disguised as a ghost and flew down here and knocked up the pretty young girlfriend, of a perfectly decent, mortal guy, and then had angel announce, to that previously innocent young thing, that she was carrying Gods baby. (By the way, why didn't God just make his special son out of dirt just like he made all of his other children?)

But here is the worst part. The only reason God wanted a mortal child, and have it murdered, via torture, and nailed to a cross, is sooo.....,he could have it sacrificed to himself!

Wait but it gets worse! The reason given for having this (special), mortal son, hideously murdered was, to atone for all the bad stuff that all of his other children were doing. Stuff that was in their very nature to do, because God designed them that way.

But wait it gets worse! God BLAMES his creations for doing stuff that they wouldn't have done if he had designed them better.

But this is the beautiful part! His son, the "nailee" being a very special relative of God, knew all along that it was all just a charade, or "passion play if you will" He knew he couldn't really be killed, so he went along with it.

Well, everything went swimmingly, and sure enough the boy just pretended to die, and after three days got up and walked around telling everybody "See I told you so," and flew up to be with his dad.

But wait it gets worse! The Bronze age tribal folk that came up with this story, told it and retold it and changed it and refined it and eventually made a whole new religion out of it, based entirely on whether or not all of the succeeding generations of people believed it, or to put it another way...

They decreed that the only way we can have everlasting life is to believe the sacrifice story above.

But wait it gets worse! God is supposed to know exactly which ones of us will believe this story and consequently go to heaven, and the ones who won't, and get fried forever, because he planned the whole thing meticulously from start to finish.

He is up in the sky watching us play out a video game that ends exactly the way he designed it.

But wait it gets worse! He is supposed to love "ALL" of us.

Dan (Getting your legs blown off in Iraq! Now that's REAL sacrifice)

eel_shepherd said...

Our new Anonymous little buddy (no, not the "Li'l Buddy" who mistakenly thought he was going on A Three Hour Cruise; that was someone else) just lives to quote. Hey, little buddy.... HEY!!! You!! What have you got when you're not quoting? How are you when you're on your own? You eelhead. I think you need some serious shepherding.

He's going to hit the trail soon anyhow, so I might as well do my two points in his upcoming absence.

The first is that the ancient Greeks believed there were the five senses we all know and love, plus a sixth, "common", sense, that the other ones gave their input to, and this "common sense" was charged with balancing these inputs into something appropriate to what's going on at the time. (Don't ask me for the original source of this idea; I'm taking this at second hand [Marshall McLuhan], unlike little quoting buddy further back the road apiece, if he's not roadkill after all.) This is not all that far from a belief in the "humours" ["humors"] that go syruping their sticky way through the body & determine whether you rob a convenience store if you sleep in past church on a Sunday.

The other pointlet had to do with bible quotes, which all seem to start with "And". This used to get on my nerves when I was a little kid, because I always used to think that the adults were leaving out the part that made any sense, and had cut straight to the apparently pointless conclusion.

Joseph said...

God knows what's you believe because he searches your Heart. He looks in every nook and cranny and you cannot hide your heart from God.

Just ask any Chrixtian

Anonymous said...

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

tigg13 said...

Joseph, if god knows what I believe then he knows that I have reached my conclussions honestly and sincerely.

He also knows how his book, his churches, hid followers and how he, himself, have failed to show me his "truth" in a manner that I would find convincing.

You'ld think an all knowing god would have come up with a solution to this problem, don't ya?

Warnepiece said...

Anonymous,

You need to spend more time actually reading that bible, rather than cherry-picking your favorite quotes. It makes you appear sanctimoniously "wise", but condescendingly foolish when you just quote some bible-babble and think that addresses all issues!

Anonymous said...

This is pathetic, all of it, all these arguments. for and against. those against God and the belief in everything metaphysical, i want you to prove to me that you exist, and that what is out there (as in the universe and that what you are feeling exists.) i mean come on, really, you cant, and the fact is that you cant disprove (and also, you really cant empirically prove) its existence either. your pride allows you to take your false conceptions of God and the author of this article has an extreme misunderstanding of who a christian is and what God wants us to do. none of it had anything to do with calling others heathens (or the likes) because we are all heathens and are capable of committing heinous acts (that is of course if you choose to say that there is a morality) but also we all know that there is evil on this earth and if you dont say so, look at darfur, look at the slave trade going on right now, look at whats going on down the street from where you live. i mean come on just because one does not commit a crime does not mean evil exists, that is a worthless argument. and the fact is sociology could easily explain why you did, since you love empirical evidence, your environment has allowed you to do so. you my friend never had a genuine relationship. someone taught you a cheap grace. which is sad but which explains why you "became a heathen". and chances are when people read this, its gonna get blasted, im ok with it, but if you do so, please use some type of intelligence and try to be logical. i realize this is hard on a website like this and especially after reading an article like this.

tigg13 said...

You want a logical response to your post, anonymous? Well might I suggest that, in the future, you try communicating your thoughts in a way that is understandable.

You know, like using correct capitalization and punctuation, forming complete sentences and proof reading your work to see if you are actually making a point.

Nony said, "i want you to prove to me that you exist, and that what is out there (as in the universe and that what you are feeling exists.)"

If you are reading this, then I exist. I must exist somewhere so the universe must exist. If I am feeling something then my feelings must exist.

Nony: "i mean come on, really, you cant, and the fact is that you cant disprove (and also, you really cant empirically prove) its existence either. "

Well that depends on what you consider proof. If you want to bring into question the validity of our senses, our memories and our sense of identity then yes, reality cannot be proved.

But without reality there can be no biblical god, because everything you know about him/her/it you have learned through interactions within this possibly non-existent reality.

"your pride allows you to take your false conceptions of God and the author of this article has an extreme misunderstanding of who a christian is and what God wants us to do."

Your pride allows you to form misconceptions about a god that, as you have already admitted, cannot be proved and permits you to speak about what a christian is and what god wants as if you were somehow better than anybody else.

"none of it had anything to do with calling others heathens (or the likes) because we are all heathens and are capable of committing heinous acts"

I want you to get a dictionary and look up the word 'heathen'. I believe you will find that it does not mean what you think it means.

"but also we all know that there is evil on this earth and if you dont say so, look at darfur..."

Nowhere in the original post did the author say that evil does not exist. In fact, the existence of evil is one of the main arguments against the existence of your god.

"i mean come on just because one does not commit a crime does not mean evil exists, that is a worthless argument."

Yes it is a worthless argument. Fortunately no one but you has made any such statement.

I think part of the problem here is that you don't seem to know what satire is. The author was not trying to make any statements about the nature of evil, but about the attitudes and perceptions of christians.

You know, like, how they will often make up their minds about something that they really don't know anything about (like, what a heathen is, for example).

"you my friend never had a genuine relationship."

(I am going to assume that you are talking about a relationship with god, since the author clearly states that he has a wife and a family)

How can one have a genuine relationship with something that does not exist? Can you prove that your god exists? Can you prove that you have ever had a relationship with this god?
(I somehow doubt that you can, considering that you have already stated that proving such things is impossible.)

"someone taught you a cheap grace. which is sad but which explains why you 'became a heathen'."

If he didn't ever have a real relationship with god, doesn't that mean that he already was a heathen?

"and chances are when people read this, its gonna get blasted, im ok with it, but if you do so, please use some type of intelligence and try to be logical. i realize this is hard on a website like this and especially after reading an article like this."

I am so, so sad that we do not meet your oh so high expectations. Perhaps if you would go and get yourself an education (at the very least, 8th grade English or better)and then reread the post it might not seem so unintelligent an illogical.

Anonymous said...

Forgive me of my bad english. that is something i am obviously having trouble in. and i am doing something to correct that. i cant really allow you to misunderstand me. even if you disagree with what i say, i still want to be understood. because until you actually understand what i want to say (which agreeably does rely on my use of the english language.) plus i dont really put much attention to how my sentences are formed on a blog website. i want you to know that what is said on here is alot of sillyness and for the people arguing for the soul's existence is quite silly. but it may be said that its the same for the people arguing against it. look at science, can anyone of you prove to me the existence of the quark? or of the size of the universe. sure we can attempt to prove these theories empirically (which is possible, im not bashing science at all, i very much respect it.) it is the essence of science and the establishing of theories and science facts that i am trying to show to you. in science something is considered true unless proven false (which many things can be proven false) but that of the soul and of God, it is impossible to disprove God's existence. i can bring to you the ontological, cosmological, teleological arguments but there really is no need. I want you to see that God's existence really is out of our understanding and knowledge (this is said through the very essence of an omniscient God (ontological argument). because you had bad occurrences with the church does not disprove God's existence. and as for my misunderstanding of what a heathen is, i am sorry. i was making it to be more like sinner (law-transgressor). i was arguing on the argument of the validity of this article. not believing or a sudden stopping in the believing of God would mean that you cant say that you ever truly believed in God. i hope this was understandable. oh and for whoever made the comment about why dont we melt when we have contact with water. i want you to use your mind a bit and think down to the very make-up of your body. lots of carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, and what not. and even then go down further, protons, neutrons, electrons. or how about further quarks, b mesons, and other subatomic particles. ok so now look at the dust. take that same journey down. and dont you think the creator of that dust could manipulate the properties of that dust and then breathe life into it. and if you read genesis, it never says that it breathed life into other creatures, just man. so sorry most likely when your dog dies it most likely will end up just dead. (but of course this opens up so many more arguments). but i will leave it at this.

Jim Arvo said...

Anonymous: "...in science something is considered true unless proven false..."

No, that is completely wrong. In science a hypothesis or a theory is disproved when it is contradicted by an objective observation, but the lack of disconfirming evidence does not prove a hypothesis or a theory to be true. In fact, there is no way, even in principle, to prove a theory in an absolute sense; all we can do is to increase our confidence in it by testing its predictions.

Anonymous: "...it is impossible to disprove God's existence..."

It's also impossible to disprove the existence of invisible leprechauns living under my front porch. Statements like that buy you absolutely nothing.

Anonymous: "...I want you to see that God's existence really is out of our understanding and knowledge..."

Yet, you are going to tell us things about this god, right? If you make any statement at all about this hypothetical god, then you must believe she is in some way accessible via observation or reason.

Anonymous: "...because you had bad occurrences with the church does not disprove God's existence..."

Check. Please show me someone who has argued otherwise. Methinks you wrestle a straw man.

Anonymous: "...not believing or a sudden stopping in the believing of God would mean that you cant say that you ever truly believed in God."

Would you care to explain this? There seems to be extensive that it is not only possible, but that it has happened countless times. One can believe proposition X, then discover that the reasons supporting X were erroneous and, in so doing, cease to believe X. Many folks here believed in a god for emotional and/or dogmatic reasons, then discovered that those reasons were poor. Hence, they no longer believe in god. Hundreds of testimonies exemplify this. How do you explain those away?

Anonymous: "...it [the Bible] never says that it breathed life into other creatures, just man."

This is one of the dangers of Judeo-Christian beliefs, in my opinion. If you accept the Biblical dogma, you are apt to view suffering as unique to man; a peculiar attribute of his road to salvation. Animal suffering would be nonsensical, as it would serve no purpose. Thus, a believer might conclude (and this was actually a popular view at one time) that animals don't really suffer. (It would seem that you subscribe to this idea, since you do not wish to view animals as even being alive.) This is in sharp contrast to what the theory of evolution predicts; i.e. that we share our most basic mental apparatus (including the capacity to suffer) with all animals. Once again, the scientific perspective turns out to be the more humble and egalitarian view.

tigg13 said...

Anonymous, I would like to apologize for my remarks concerning your level of education and your ability to communicate. I can see now that I grossly underestimated both.

We do, from time to time, get some folks on this site who will ramble on for 1000 words and never make a single coherent statement.

I truly misjudged you and I am sorry.

Anonymous said...

Please learn what a real "Heathen" is before you use the word so loosely. How about you read....

http://tinyurl.com/8lmx3

Anonymous said...

Hebrew word Nephesh (soul, being, creature) used in bible to describe man (i.e. Genesis 2:7) and animals (Genesis1:20-21, etc) to denote a living, breathing creature. That doesn't make the bible any less confusing or illofgical..just Just a clarifying point...

-- Steel