5/26/2007                                                                                       View Comments

Religion vs. Science



This is a short clip from Stephen Hawking's Universe. The topic: Christian resistance to scientific advancement.

Bible passages that relate to Geocentrism:
Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, and Chronicles 16:30 state that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." Psalm 104:5 says, "[the LORD] set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "the sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises."

Bible passaged that relate to Human Evolution:
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image..."
Genesis 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground..."

24 comments:

Anonymous said...

I pick religion over science because thats where I morality, purpose, etc. should be based. The morality of our society is based on christian doctrines and we need to stick to this. I wish the christian religion ruled the world but oh well. Jesus is coming soon!

.:webmaster:. said...

The morality in our society is based on Christian doctrines? Which doctrines would those be?

The doctrine of not profaning the Sabbath? Is that one of them?

How about the doctrine of keeping slaves? Is that one of those doctrines you are thinking of?

Anony, I know you are only parroting what you've been taught, but you really need to learn the truth about the founding of "our society."

John Adams Quotes
Ethan Allen Quotes
Ben Franklin Quotes
Lighthouses are more helpful than Churches Thomas Jefferson Quotes
James Madison
Thomas Paine Quotes
George Washington Quotes
Original Pledge of Allegiance

Gus said...

I wish the christian religion ruled the world but oh well.

the "oh well" bit made me smile :)

Anonymous said...

"I wish the christian religion ruled the world but oh well."

Yeah. Once you establish an idiocracy, where delusion is the norm, then you'd fit in! Right, anony?? -Wes.

Anonymous said...

To anony,."I wish Christianity ruled the world",..Isn't that
sort of what Hitler wished?

*By the way,Jesus isn't coming on anyone!How dare you say such a thing.

freedy

ComputerGuyCJ said...

Anony,

You really don't have a clue, do you. Your God is a racist, sexist, rapist, murderous figment of imagination, who according to the Bible approves of others who are just as cruel and vial. Our morality and purpose should NOT be based on this religion.

Read the proof at:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Oh, and by the way, Jesus is dead. He'll never be coming, so don't hold out hope.

Left of Center said...

"I pick religion over science because thats where I morality, purpose, etc. should be based. The morality of our society is based on christian doctrines and we need to stick to this. I wish the christian religion ruled the world but oh well. Jesus is coming soon!"
Talk about delusional thinking. This is what happens when people only know the stories taught in sunday school, and sleep through American history.

Anonymous said...

Great video, funny how the chuch likes science when it's telling them the things it wants to hear ^_^

Reality is not up to a vote, folks!

THE ACE said...

Anonymous: So you prefer the myths
and superstitions of a long-dead
Bronze age civilization to the knowledge we have now. Then let me ask you this...How many computers did these people create to help
people in their quest for knowledge? How many rockets containing satellites did they launch to explore the mysteries of our solar system and our galaxy?
How many colleges and universities did they found to train future
scientists and archaeologists?

Wake up man. This is the 21st
Century.

Anonymous said...

Yea, it is the 21st century. And God is still here. People have been trying to get rid of him for centuries. Christianity has definitely influenced our society. Dont agree that it should rule the world though. Hitler wasnt christian. Read the bible to know what real christians are. God isnt racist. All are equal in his sight. Read the bible guys please before you offend my God.
Love James

Anonymous said...

>>Yea, it is the 21st century. And God is still here.

Says you. Another assertion with no proof to back it up.

>>People have been trying to get rid of him for centuries.

Are you saying that's what we are trying to do? Get rid of him?? Please tell me - how does one go about trying to get rid of something that they are not convinced EXISTS?? It's sort of like emptying the trash can when there's nothing in it. Please explain this.

>>Christianity has definitely influenced our society.

Sure has. But not in the positive way I'm betting you think it has!

>>Dont agree that it should rule the world though. Hitler wasnt christian.

And a lot of people say he WAS, and if I'm not mistaken, he ADMITTED HE WAS. So, by logical deduction, if you say YOU are a christian, how am I to know that for sure when someone else (probably another christian) will say you're NOT??

>>Read the bible to know what real christians are.

Well, if it were really that easy, then there should only be ONE denomination of Christianity; not the 30 or so thousand sects that exist today. So, obviously, the bible isn't exactly clear on that issue, is it?? Oh - please don't EVER think that we haven't read your holy shitbook; we HAVE; me personally, MANY TIMES. Don't tell us to do something that you have just assumed we haven't, OK?

>>God isnt racist. All are equal in his sight. Read the bible guys please before you offend my God.
Love James

Well, if we're going to offend something, that said something has to first exist to be offended. So, I ask this of you, James, please bring to this discussion YOUR OBJECTIVE evidence of the EXISTANCE of YOUR GOD, then we can go about discussing how you think we are offending him somehow. Thanks, -Wes.

ComputerGuyCJ said...

James,

You are the one who needs to read the bible. We've read it and know exactly what it says.

Your god shouldn't care about being offended. He's omnipotent, right? In reality, you don't want to be offended. Well, here's something offensive for you:
Fuck your god! If there is a hell, he will be the only one burning in there!

Anonymous said...

"Dont agree that it should rule the world though."

Yes you SHOULD. By the very commands set forth in your holy shitbook! THAT is what your GOD/Jesus wanted! To go forth and spread the Good News, right? To everyone, right? Everyone INCLUDED those souls in government, does it not? The bible makes this very clear to Christians: CONVERT EVERYONE!!! Everyone! So, you don't agree with this? Are you a hypocrite, James? -Wes.

ComputerGuyCJ said...

James,

You say your god is not racist? Why then does Jesus (your god) call Samaritans dogs? How is that different than calling African-Americans monkeys?

.:webmaster:. said...

Trolling posted deleted.

sailerfraud said...

James, we never got rid of your God because your god doesn't exist. It is a mythological figure and a figment of your imagination - that's all we're trying to point out.

Anonymous said...

"I pick religion over science because thats where I morality, purpose, etc. should be based. The morality of our society is based on christian doctrines and we need to stick to this. I wish the christian religion ruled the world but oh well. Jesus is coming soon!"

How old are you, eight? I suggest you pay attention in your language arts classes, you seem to need all the help you can get.

Jesus said to his disciples he would be back in their lifetimes; don't hold your breath.

As far as Christianity ruling the world, I suggest you also pay attention in your history classes. Officially Christian governments have been the cause of countless religious wars and persecution. Look up crusades, inquisition, holocaust, and witch burning for starters.

You are young enough that you should start thinking for yourself instead of allowing your parents and church leaders to brainwash you. Work on your critical thinking skills.

By the way, did you even watch that video? Probably not.

Chucky Jesus

Anonymous said...

"Yea, it is the 21st century. And God is still here. People have been trying to get rid of him for centuries. Christianity has definitely influenced our society. Dont agree that it should rule the world though. Hitler wasnt christian. Read the bible to know what real christians are. God isnt racist. All are equal in his sight. Read the bible guys please before you offend my God.
Love James"

If by God being here, you mean the belief, yes it is, but it is very much on the wane. In Europe, atheists are the majority of the population in most countries. Fundies in the U.S. are scared to death of a secular society which is leaving them behind and are frantically trying to prop up a bankrupt system of belief which is dying at an ever faster rate.

Hitler said, "I am doing the Lord's work."

God isn't racist? Seems like he plays favorites:

For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God bath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.�
- Deuteronomy, 7/6


Seems like Jesus rejects some not of his race:

Matthew 15:22-26 22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. 23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. 26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.


I have read the Bible and your god offends me. He has been responsible for mass murder, genocide, incest, mysogony, racism, infanticide, ludicrous dietary and hygiene laws which applied only to the Bronze Age and Early Iron Age, and dangerously delusional beliefs.

God's Child said...

A science and philosophy professor begins his school year with a lecture to
the students:

"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ." The atheist
professor pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to
stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes, sir."

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE BIBLE!" He considers for a moment.
"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can
cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you could...
in fact most of us would if we could... God doesn't.

[No answer.]

"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer even
though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you
answer that one?"

[No answer]

The elderly professor is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He takes a
sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. In
philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. "Let's start again, young
fella."

"Is God good?"

"Er... Yes."

"Is Satan good?"

"No."

"Where does Satan come from?" The student falters.

"From... God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony
fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student
audience.” I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies and
gentlemen." He turns back to the student.

"Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"

"Yes."

"Who created evil?

[No answer]

The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil,
since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who
we are, then God is evil."

[No answer}

"Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness. All the
terrible things - do they exist in this world? "

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"Who created them? "

[No answer] The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO CREATED THEM?
TELL ME, PLEASE!" The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the
student's face. In a still small voice: "God created all evil, didn't He,
son?"

[No answer]

The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and fails.

Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like an
aging panther. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues, "How is it
that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?" The
professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the world.
"All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all the death
and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is all over the
world, isn't it, young man?"

[No answer]

"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?"

Pause.

"Don't you?" The professor leans into the student's face again and whispers,
"Is God good?"

[No answer]

"Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor. I do."

The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you
use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen him? "

"No, sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir. I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus...in
fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?"

[No answer]

"Answer me, please."

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"You're AFRAID... you haven't?"

"No, sir."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"...yes..."

"That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling."According
to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says
your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Where is your God
now?"

[The student doesn't answer]

"Sit down, please."

The student sits...Defeated.

Another student raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?"

The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Christian in the vanguard!
Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering."

The student looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are making,
sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"Is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No, sir, there isn't."

The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold.

The second student continues. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat,
super- heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat but we don't
have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is no
heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as
cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than 458 -

You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We
cannot measure cold. "Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is
energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.

"What about darkness. Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"

"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness? What are
you getting at...?"

"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes..."

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of
something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing
light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called
darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In
reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness
darker and give me a jar of it. Can you...give me a jar of darker darkness,
professor?"

Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before him.
This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling us what your
point is, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start
with and so your conclusion must be in flawed...."

The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!""

"Sir, may I explain what I mean?"

The class is all ears.

"Explain... oh, explain..." The professor makes an admirable effort to
regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He waves his hand to
silence the class, for the student to continue.

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You
argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can
measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and
magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view
death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death
cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life,
merely the absence of it."

Now tell me professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from
monkeys?

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes,
of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a
silent, stony stare.

"Professor. Since no-one has ever observed the process of evolution at work
and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has
subsided.

"Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The
class breaks out in laughter.

The student points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor. "Is there anyone
here who has ever heard the professor's brain... felt the professor's brain,
touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So
according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable
protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face
unreadable.

Finally after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll
have to take it on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and in fact, faith exists with life,"
the student continues. "Now sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course there is. We see it
everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in
the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These
manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does
not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like
darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of
God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man
does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that
comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no
light."

The professor sat down.

stronger now said...

After listening to a preacher preach a sermon about how good god is, an atheist stands up and asks:

Atheist:"Mr. preacher, do you have any credible evidence for the existence of a god?"

Preacher:"No."

End of story.

AtheistToothFairy said...

God's Child said:
Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart
----
Child,

One could also argue that GOOD remains, when you take away the EVIL GOD(s) from our hearts.
i.e. Only by rejecting the brainwashing evil of some religions, can we achieve true good

Evil is not a THING in itself, but rather a subjective attribute that would vary in HUMAN opinion, depending on who one asked. You can't measure evil like you can hot and cold.
One might say an earthquake was 'evil', but that doesn't mean it's a living creature capable of doing evil.

I could easily make a case that your OT god was an evil being.
Of course, you would swear that this OT god was good instead.
So it's surely a subjective issue and not something empirical.

I see many other flaws in this classroom example as well.

Nice try and I'm sure you didn't write this yourself, but rather STOLE IT.


ATF (who is still waiting for the definition of SIN, and now the definition of EVIL to)

Astreja said...

(heavy sigh) And again we see the thoroughly tiresome "where's the professor's brain?" false analogy. Not very convincing, God's Child. We have tangible evidence for the human brain: We can monitor the electrical currents within, and actually point to a lump of matter and say 'This, here, is a brain'. No such luck finding the god of the Bible.

And yes, it's highly unlikely that the post is GC's original work. I didn't feel like sorting through dozens of Google pages to find correct attribution for the story, but this particular godspam has been in circulation for some time now.

eel_shepherd said...

God's Child, have you ever seen the soul of wit?

.:webmaster:. said...

Here's where that story originated:

Malice of Absence

Claim: While a student, Albert Einstein humiliated an atheist professor by using the "Evil is the absence of God" argument on him.

Status: False