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6/11/2007                                                                                       View Comments

YO!! CHRISTIAN, IT'S SELF EVIDENT (ISN'T IT?)

BY dano

Is it not self evident that an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, God would not need our worship, or want our worship?

Is it not self evident that an omniscient God would already know everything we are thinking?

Is it not self evident that an omnipotent God would eliminate sin, if he found it to be displeasing to himself?

Is it not self evident that an omnibenevolent God would find a way to get everybody into heaven?

Is it not self evident that an omnipresent God would fix anything that he found to his disliking, anywhere, and everywhere?

Is it not self evident that if there is a God, that same God, made everything?

What is it about EVERYTHING that you don't understand?

Isn't it self evident that is there is a God that made everything, he can do anything, change anything, eliminate anything, fix anything?

What is it about ANYTHING, that you don't understand?

What is it about SELF EVIDENT that you don't understand?

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21 comments:

Micah Cowan said...

Of course, the obvious response to "an omnipotent God would eliminate sin" is the old "God won't do anything to mess with freewill" routine. So, to nip that in the bud, I would ask that anyone wishing to employ the "freewill" argument first give their answers to the following questions:

In what way did God preserve King Saul's freewill when he compelled him (and every servant he sent forth before him) to prophesy, rather than to follow his desire to assassinate David? [1Sam 19:18-24]

In what way was Saul's freewill preserved when the "wicked" spirit that God sent him would take possession of Him (by the will of God) and through him attempt to assassinate David? [1Sam 18:10-11, 19:9-10]

In what way was the Egyption Pharaoh's freewill preserved when God "hardened his heart", controlling and manipulating Pharaoh's will "so that he would not let the children of Israel go out of his land," "that [God] might shew these my signs before him?" He also hardened his heart, causing him to "[pursue] after the children of Israel," which of course ultimately led to his death (and, since he was not a believer, the beginning of an eternity in Hell). [Several passages in Exodus, chapters 7-11, and 14]

Explain where in the Bible is taught the doctrine of free will, and God's unwillingness to tamper therewith?

scottnogod said...

Also If freewill stops God from creatng a perfect world - then how can God say for sure that heaven will stay perfect after Jesus return. No doubt A christian will be answer that Our sinful nature will be removed. But Didn't Adam have a perfect nature before the fall?. Didn't Satan.
If a perfect nature means you won't sin, why not create us that way to start with. Either Sin is possible in heaven or it could have been avoided hear.
On the subject, what is freewill anyway? As far as I can see, it's just our self awarness of our desires and conflicting wants. In other words an extention of our nature. So I fail to see how if God created us with no desire to sin it would conflict with our free will.
Even if this is not the case. God has total foreknowledge in Christian belief. So God created us the way he did knowing the outcome.
So how is God not Guilty as well. If a human knew a bad event was going to happen and could stop it we see it as morally wrong not to. Why is God off the hook? If God is so powerful and forknowing I fail to see how he could not create free agents the would never choose sin.

CommonMan said...

To respond to the point about "an omnipotent God would eliminate sin" all you need to do is answer the following question,

Would you prefer a life-sized blow-up doll or a real person as a partner?

Unless you have some kind of mental, emotional or sexual disorder, you would want a real person.

God could have created His own version of a blow-up doll, but he chose to create people that could return His love.

Unless I am condemned to spend my entire life driving in the HOV lane, I prefer the company of someone who has their own thoughts, their own emotions, their own ability to love. Can't get that from a blow-up doll, although I think the Japanese are working on that problem.

severalspeciesof said...

To commonman,

Read scottnogod's first two paragraphs (above your comment).

I myself believe in freewill, and I believe that freewill is a problem for theists who believe in a omniscient god AND a omnibenevolent god AND a omnipotent god. My question would be:

"Is there freewill in Heaven?"

If the answer is yes, then what's the point of earth?

Holly Blasphemer said...

CommonMan said, "God could have created His own version of a blow-up doll, but he chose to create people that could return His love."


To extend the analogy:

If the peoples don't return his "love," he'll have them tortured for all eternity while the good christians look down from their heavenly bleechers and cheer with glee. Much more satisfying than a blow-up doll, which would melt within a matter of seconds or a couple of minutes at the most. All hail god the loving sadist!

Lorena said...

Commonman:
God could have created His own version of a blow-up doll, but he chose to create people that could return His love.

Lorena:
So God made me so I would love him, and if I decide that I don't want to, he will burn me in hell forever and ever.

That doesn't sound like a loving God. It sounds like the MO of a psychopath.

Wake up "Common Man." Stop being "Common." Start using your brain.

dano said...

CommonMan wrote:
"God could have created His own version of a blow-up doll, but he chose to create people that could return His love."

Dano here;
If I were God and perfect, a complete being, I wouldn't need the love of a bunch of primates.

If I were God and omnipotent and wanted company, I would have created beings as smart as myself. If I were God and omnibenevolent, none of my children would be allowed to suffer much less go to hell,

What I'm getting at CommonMan, your thinking is too shallow. You need to start asking questions instead of telling us what Gods intentions were when he created so many idiots, and deformed, retarded, ugly, diseased, humans to have as lovers.
Dan

dano said...

CommonMan wrote:
"God could have created His own version of a blow-up doll, but he chose to create people that could return His love."

Dano here;
If I were God and perfect, a complete being, I wouldn't need the love of a bunch of primates.

If I were God and omnipotent and wanted company, I would have created beings as smart as myself.

If I were God and omnibenevolent, none of my children would be allowed to suffer much less go to hell,

What I'm getting at CommonMan, your thinking is too shallow. You need to start asking questions instead of telling us what Gods intentions were when he created so many idiots, and deformed, retarded, ugly, diseased, humans to have as lovers.
Dan

dano said...

Hey! I just figured out why there are so many double posts!

If you get nervous and DOUBLE CLICK, when you click on "Publish your comment" it will publish twice.

You're welcome.
Dan

paul said...

Allah created the blow up doll.

True free thinker said...

Atheists are responsible for the worst crimes in history.

That alone betrays their credibility.

Even if you were right, I wouldn't want to be controlled by people like you.

Fundies, atheist, a pox on both your houses.

stronger now said...

True free thinker said...

"Even if you were right, I wouldn't want to be controlled by people like you."



Yes you would. We all float down here.

Shelikesthesound said...

True free thinker said...

"Atheists are responsible for the worst crimes in history."

That alone betrays their credibility.


Yawn. Not this tired cliche' yet again. While I will admit there have been psychopaths who were atheists, they exist in all forms of religion. Including your precious Xtiantiy. Problem is, all of their "worst crimes in history" pale in comparison to what your evil monster of a deity is credited for doing in the bible.

As far as credibility, anyone who claims to be part of a group that is magically changed by saying an incantation is suspect to me. Let's face it, nothing really happens. You are who you are regardless, but with a huge victim complex.

.:webmaster:. said...

TFT: I wouldn't want to be controlled by any one single party, people group, religion, or ideologue.

Oh, all atheist means is having no god belief. Theist=has god belief. Atheist=lacks god belief.

As far as everything else goes, atheists don't necessarily agree on anything. It's not a religion. It's not a church. All atheists agree on is that religionists' claims of a god are unproven claims.

And another thing, this is ExChrisitan.Net. Just because people leave Christianity, it does not automatically mean they have become atheists.

You really need to get away from your black&white Christian mentality.

dano said...

True free thinker wrote:
"Atheists are responsible for the worst crimes in history.
That alone betrays their credibility.
Even if you were right, I wouldn't want to be controlled by people like you.
Fundies, atheist, a pox on both your houses."

Dan to True free thinker:
Not that I think you will ever be able to negotiate the complexities of reading much on this website, designed for people of many varying beliefs, who have found Christianity confusing, illogical, irrational, or just down right silly, but I am curious about which God you believe in.

What philosophy, or theology has turned out a true free thinker, one who opens doors of houses where he is not invited, and passes judgment on everyone therein?

What "faith" allows you to wish a pox on us?
Dan

ComputerGuyCJ said...

I don't believe Commonman reads our comments. I'm of the opinion that such people should not be given the privilege of posting their own comments.

TheCapetonian said...

Dano,

Excellent post. You basically stated all the questions that we as former christians had but were afraid to ask.

Thanks,
The Capetonian

dano said...

TheCapetonian wrote:
Dano,
Excellent post. You basically stated all the questions that we as former christians had but were afraid to ask.
Thanks,
The Capetonian
posted: June 14, 2007 EST  

To Capetonian from Dan,
It always fascinates me, that the simplest questions often reveal the most complex answers.

How can any believer in any of mans made up religions get past what seem obvious to me?

(IF A GOD MADE EVERYTHING, IT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING.)

So simple, but so hard for many really smart people to understand, but pretty much explains my theology, from Alpha to omega.
Dan

dano said...

I wonder if the great, evangelical preachers wife, ever realized that he has been preaching all these years and really never said anything except:

"Believe in my version of an imaginary being, and when you die here on earth, you will receive another life in a wonderful place where everything will be perfect"

Now since it is IMPOSSIBLE, for anyone to know what happens to us after we die, that revered evangelical preacher has asked for donations to support him and his gigantic organization all his life, for telling a lot of gullible people a LIE.

I wonder if it has ever occurred to that counselor to presidents, that the whole thing is a cult and a scam?

For someone as smart as the "greatest televangelist that ever lived," it would have been impossible for him to not see that what he was preaching, was all just another pagan mythology.

I wonder at what point he realized that he had to keep telling the "lie" to keep the billions of dollars coming in?
Dan

twincats said...

The bible god isn't omni anything. But it's only self-evident if you actually think about it.

I mean, God so loved the WORLD, right? Leaving out 80% of it seems pretty sloppy to me.

If god is everywhere, all-powerful and knows everything, then why didn't Jesus do a world tour either during his earthly ministry or after the resurrection?

Could it be because the writers of the stories that would become the bible only thought they knew the extent of the earth?

Yeah, I know the Mormons believe that the Jesus world tour actually happened, but it sure didn't stick anywhere but the near and middle east! Bam, all-powerful is blown right there!

dano said...

I have come to the conclusion that Christians profess to have faith in the Magic of bible God and the Jesus concept simply because it is more interesting than the alternative.

They cannot just say "I don't know" something and be done with it. These people need to have an explanation for everything, and it doesn't matter to them whether it makes sense or not. They are like drug users who know that drugs are harmful but will use them anyway,

The only thing that will change them is for them to experience the beauty of seeing the world as it really is, and very few of them will ever have the courage to take the blinders off and look.

The fact that America is dumbing down and becoming less able to compete with the rest of the world, is in a large part due to the increasing number of people here, who don't have the capacity for critical thought.

Smarter people in other countries are taking our jobs, and it is just a question time before they take our land.

As long as we elect public officials who don't understand that this country became great because of a few men with the intellect to be able to understand that religion has no place in government, we will keep going down hill.

We are becoming more like a third world country every day, corrupt from the top down. Everybody is on the take.

Bush claims to be a born again Christian, but has presided over what will go down in history as the most corrupt American government in history.
Dan