The ExChristian.Net blog exists for the express purpose of encouraging those who have decided to leave Christianity behind. This area contains articles sent in between January 2001 and February 2010. To view recent posts, click on the "Home" link.
Hi, I'm Pat Condell.I don't respect your beliefsand I don't care if you're offended.Cheers.
Thanks Mr. Condell. Loved your commentary. As a Christian who's been taught to regard Jesus in an eastern monastic mystic tradition, I'll say "Bt jove old man, I think you've actually got it better than the angry Christians do!" Thanks for sharing.
Remember, anyone can join Christs side at any time, no matter what their record.Humanity is seldom so forgiving.Blessings in the Lord.
rev james,humanity can never be, and no human can ever be, as forgiving as an imaginary construct that is assembled in the mind of the believer as the superlative forgiver. anyone can follow the buddha along the eight-fold path at any time, no matter what their record.humanity is seldom so enlightened and liberated from samsara.do you understand now why your post does nothing to advance the search for truth? humans will never top imaginary superlatives. never. because they don't exist.beanheel
rev james wrote:"...Remember, anyone can join Christs side at any time,..."Anyone could pee their pants at any time too.
Rev James said:Remember, anyone can join Christs side at any time, no matter what their record.Humanity is seldom so forgiving.Blessings in the Lord.FUCK THE HOLY SPOOK!Can I still join Kryasst's side? I doubt it. I just blasphemed His Spook, and that pisses Him off so bad that He can never forgive it, according to the Book of Myths. (Matt. 12:31-32)Read your Book of Myths! Humanity is generally much more forgiving than the murderous, genocidal maniac you call "God". When is the last time you murdered someone simply for lying to you, for example? (See Acts 5:1-11)Blastings from the Holy Farter.
Humanity at God's bidding has been the least forgiving of all. burning at the stake, excommunication, hangings, etc.And as for God, there have been no confirmation that anyone who has died as actually passed the litmus tests to get into Heaven. So forgivenness on his part is still up in the air.
"Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste."- Mark Twain in "The Lowest Animal"
I am lucky to have found this place. Thanks to the WM for his Mark Twain quote--one of my favorite authors!! Have you read "Letters from the Earth"?Hi to Jeff, and you are also one of my favorite authors. You ought to host the Tonight show. And as for you, rev james, my "record" is spotless. I have never been inside a church, never prayed, and never for a moment believed in any gods. I am as close to pure as anyone ever gets. The very thought of you makes me feel soiled. And I will see you in hell before I join your christ.
Wow...when I read some of the vitriole that comes from angry non-christians it makes me wonder where does this come from (for those of you who are "church-abused" my apologies. I know where that hate comes from) but when someone says "Fuck the holy spook" or "the very thought of you makes me feel soiled" just because they can makes me think they need therapy...not a religious discussion. go get help...
"Actually there's more evidence that Jesus existed than there is that Julius Ceaser existed"...is there fuck.
Michael,I don't need help in the sense of needing psychological counseling at this point thanks in large part to sites like this one where caring and understanding people who have had similar experiences abound, though I think there should be exit counseling available for those who choose to leave the fundamentalist Christian cult when they come to the realization that what they have been taught is not true.If you can't understand why I would be angry after spending 15 years of my life embracing and promoting demonstrably false religious beliefs then that is your problem, not mine. I was lied to repeatedly about many things, brainwashed, and indoctrinated for 15 years of my life. I think I have sufficient cause to be just a little angry...
Michael, baby, let me set you straight. It's what I do best.I do not speak for the others, but my feelings do not involve anger or hate. I am not an emotional person, and my reaction toward christians, or toward any other religion, is mostly amusement. Grown men and women cooing like babies about "oh my savior this" and "oh my savior that". At the worst, I feel a chilly contempt. Pat Robertson does that to me. With me so far, babe? Now about that phrase "makes me think they need therapy". Listen, lover, I do not give two flying fucks into hell what you think. If you think I am crazy, that's fine, because I wouldn't use your opinion for toilet paper. If you want to hear hate and anger, I suggest you research the history of christianity, if you have either the patience or the brains. Have you ever read martin luther's writings about jews and witches? The little bastard was insane.Do try to remember, my precious, that a christian believes that I am going to hell because I don't love his little jesus. I cannot imagine that degree of hate. Yes, that should, and does, draw insults. Considering the sort of kooks that populate christendom, Brother Jeff and I come out looking pretty good.As for your last line.....go get fucked.With loveClytemnestra
To Michael:Making fun of Jebus and his Spook is no different than making fun of Allah Baba and his Camel cigarette. Or do you disagree? "We despise all reverences and all the objects of reverence which are outside the pale of our own list of sacred things. And yet, with strange inconsistency, we are shocked when other people despise and defile the things which are holy to us." — Mark Twain, "Following the Equator"
The WM said:Making fun of Jebus and his Spook...That's the Spook of Kryasst who is also somehow magically Him! :)Clytemnestra said:Hi to Jeff, and you are also one of my favorite authors. You ought to host the Tonight show.Hey there Clytemnestra! Thanks. That would be cool. So would doing a standup comedy routine featuring my favorite invisible friends the Holy Farter, the Magic Sky Man, and the Holy Spook! Glory! :)
From "The Rev:" -- "Remember, anyone can join Christs side at any time, no matter what their record.Humanity is seldom so forgiving.Blessings in the Lord."This is about as appealing as an open invitation to join the Neo-Nazis. Remember, you can join Adolph's side at any time; it's never too late!
Ha ha, Chucky Jesus, and I want to be in neither one's list of friends, even though I am German and had a Catholic baptism a long time ago.Humanity is at least as forgiving than christians, and christians are at least as "bad" as any other human being, cause guess what, they're human too! They think they're "chosen" or mentioned in the "list of names" or god's chosen folk or special cause they go to the church of christ or the mormon church or _______ (fill in the blank with your favorite sect). They think they are better, have better morals, better ethics, or more law abiding. I don't see that. I see the same, same, same human behavior in christians as in others. Unfaithfulness to spouses, lying, deceiving, stealing, hurting, robbing. And in addition, they tend to be very judgmental.I am glad to be in the company of my dear atheist friends, good human fellows.Sean
Hey Clytemnestra, You are relatively new to this site correct? I love your style. You made my night by reading your last post. I am very fascinated by someone who has never bought into the bullshit of God belief. I was scared into faking belief for most of my 44 years, yet deep down I knew that religion was all the product of man’s imagination. I would love to know more about your life and how you wound up never believing. I work with a guy like that. Religion is just a non issue to him, like the Loc Ness Monster would be to me. Did you ever post a testimonial? If so I would love to read it. I would love to learn more about the Natural Atheist that you are. Are you American?Xrayman
Jesus is not coming back, because none of these "So Called" christians are worth coming back for. They are not worth Jesus' time.
Jesus did return to earth back on August 17, 1959.However, he was killed back on April 19, 1993 down in Waco Texas.
Actually Jesus did return in the year 2000 but he's been busy shopping in the mega-malls... Shoes, shoes, comfortable shoes, Florsheim, Nike, Rebok, Rockport, etc. bubble bath, deoderant, electric shavers, underwear, taylored suits, cigars, beer and wine, real food, halfnaked ladies shopping...Jesus is finally in...Heaven!
Rev James wrote:"Humanity is seldom so forgiving"---Hey Rev,I highly doubt that 'humanity' will toss 2/3 of it's earthly population into an eternal torture chamber, like your god will do (or has done already).Now it's just my opinion that this sorta action is just a tad bit less forgiving than the result of what humanity itself would do, but then, it's just my opinion.I hope you'll be happy on your heavenly cloud, while knowing the majority of human life is burning in your wonderful lord's sacred flames.Perhaps your lord will wipe your memory of hell, so you won't have to suffer this mental anguish.It's only fair to do so, for the blessed 'saved', right Rev?ATF
I heard Jesus was killed in the Roswell Crash of 1947,His body is being held at "Area 51".
The Kingdom of God is like a "Chess Board".God and Satan enjoy using us "Lowly Sinful Humans" as their pawns in their little game of Chess.
Actually, Earth is the Chess Board, and we lowly "Sinful Human Beings" are Satan and God's chess pieces.
To Michael:The Bible is full of mythological bullshit, erroneous historical accounts, bad science, self-contradictions, and violent bloodshed, among other things, that indicates it to be nothing "Holy" or worthy of our respect. It is worthy of much ridicule, contempt, and mockery for the content it bears and cannot be respected as a superior book without compromising human dignity and intellect. So when people go off and deride your holy book and castigate you for your beliefs, you should get a hint in that little brain of yours that there actually might be something wrong here in what you so dearly believe, then be brave enough to analyze for yourself the flaws pointed out to you, and if you have some balls down there, make the decision to challenge those beliefs. So instead of coming on here to make judgment calls on what is appropriate or not, read your fucking holy mother fucking piece of shit Bible and realize how ridiculous and hilarious it can be. Amen.
Bill darling, yes I am new here, and I am flattered by your praise. You are one of the many good people that have made me feel welcome. And stop using phrases like "made my night". You're going to turn me on. I would love to respond to your questions (I'm such a ham). Darling, I was raised by two atheist parents. My big sister and I never were taken to church, not even for a wedding or a funeral. We were told about religion--our mother and father explained christianity as they would explain any mythology. Jesus meant no more to me than Zeus, Odin, or Quetzalcoatl. I was only vaguely aware that people took gods seriously. My sister and I grew up as happy girls who had free rein. Shit, I was sporting a mohawk at 15. And I hate to disappoint any christian who might be listening, but we didn't use drugs or sleep around or shoplift or worship Satan. I have just recently started to look at these fanatics that seem to be everywhere. They are not harmless little fruitcakes. They are honestly aiming to take over this country, and the whole goddamned world into the bargain. Yes, I am a little scared. And yes, Bill, I am an American, and it grieves me to the bone that such people are trying to christianize the land of Tom Jefferson, Tom Paine, and Jim Madison. I don't know what the damned hell I can do about it.I am thinking about posting a testimony. The problem is that when I start talking I can't shut up. I would like to spend a little more time just talking to people here and learning the ropes. I also want to encounter more of our "fundie" friends--or enemies--and get to know them as well. Sweets, I must be off to read the latest posts. They seem to come in 3 and 4 at a time. Bill, I am usually out running around over the weekend, and nowhere near a keyboard, but I will be back Monday. Uh.....I think. And are you a Radiologist? Hi to Brother Jeff. Honest to christ, Jeff, you remind me of George Carlin and Lenny Bruce.
Don´t you just want to hug that great old Englishman every time you see him? :)"Remember, anyone can join Christs side at any time, no matter what their record."Even Adolph Hitler? Joseph Stalin? Pol Pot? Saddam Hussein? Agusto Pinochet? Francisco Franco? Idi Amin? Jorge Videla? Robert Taylor? Even Albert Fish? Jeffrey Dahmer? Dennis Rader? John Gacy? Gary Heidnik? Andrej Chikatilo?Osama Bin Laden, for that matter?"Humanity is seldom so forgiving."So... you consider it forgiving to punish people for being imperfect, while others, who are actually evil, get off scot-free because they profess faith in the absurd,"Blessings in the Lord."Fuck you. No, seriously. Fuck you and the god you rode in on. Your beliefs are an affront to humanity. - Leonard
Clytemnestra, Thanks so much for the info on your life. I am very facinated by someone actually raised by atheist parents. I have two kids and my wife is a tepid Christian at best. chances are my kids will side with reason. I would love to write you sometime. If you feel like it send me an email or post your email@example.comActually I am an xray tech. A radiologist is a physician who reads the xrays I take.
Amen, Brother Jeff, just by belonging to this site for almost a year now, has worked like a counsler for me also. At times still feel like a nut, going around telling everyone how right I was about my beliefs and all. It still embarresses me to think about it, but heh, I know i'm not the only one who feels this way. We all have been brainwashed by someome, or ourselves. It took me around 30 yrs. to finally wake up. I still like "most" christians; it's just the silly religion I can't stand. Peace, Roger...A/A
"Or maybe it's just burning in fire. I don't want to get heavy about it."That's gold!
I have to admit that I find it kind of amusing that many of you think I am defending christianity. I am not. I am just able to take a "live and let live" attitude and don't feel the need to excoriate those people who call themselves christian. Sure there is hypocrisy, manipulation and deception..no question. But if we are honest about it...we are no different.The attitudes I read here are no different that what you dislike about christians...so who really are the self-righteous? WE ALL ARE! Christians are just in denial about it which is what mostly irks me about them.Despite what you may think about christianity, or christians, or the bible (I am sure I share many of your feelings about these) one thing I do have to agree with christians about...the concept that we are all sinners (fallible if you like that word better). It is perhaps the only christian doctrine that can still be emperically verified. you all have proved it to me.I would reitereate...go get the help.
Before I receive more hate mail about my last comments let me just tell you where I am coming from. I was raised a christian (as I know many of you were) and have recently begun to question much (or most) of what I was taught...which led me to this website. I was hoping for an honest, respectful discussion of facts, ideas, and beliefs (or lack thereof) that would call into question essential tenets of christianity. What I have found is a bunch of bitter, childish, powerless people who are no different in many respects to the christians they so despise. It is a pity that this could not have been a more positive discussion. Can't wait to join you all...such a loving, accepting group. I think I'll go back to church.
Clytemnestra said: "Do try to remember, my precious, that a christian believes that I am going to hell because I don't love his little jesus. I cannot imagine that degree of hate."Do you really believe that a God of love actually is happy to see any of His creatures turning away from Him? Do you actually believe that it's God's hate that is causing the obstinate sinner to be seperated eternally? No, never! God loves everyone of His creatures and His heart is pounding in pain at the site of so many that reject His love. Clytemnestra, the hate is coming from all of us that reject Him by choosing hate over love, choosing resentment over forgiveness, choosing condescension over respect, etc...Clytemnestra said: "And I hate to disappoint any christian who might be listening, but we didn't use drugs or sleep around or shoplift or worship Satan."Is this your standard of morality? Do you really believe that you're a truly moral person? I tell you, none of us are, Christians and non-Christians. The difference between you and I, is that I recognize and acknowledge my sinful nature. This is what God is waiting for from all of His special creation, humans. Admit that we purposely ignore the moral absolutes He's placed on each of our hearts and from that humble act, He'll begin the healing process.You may have chosen a clean lifestyle but I do suggest you take a step down from that horse you're riding. I've lived most of my life on that high horse and I can tell you honestly that there is only One hand that you can take that will successfully bring you to the ground. That hand belongs to Jesus....who is God.May God's Grace touch your heart. I tell you solemnly that unless He does, no man can ever have true peace and joy.All believers should hope and PRAY that He wakes everyone from their sleep. Because He truly does want EVERYONE to accept His gift.God Bless,Luke
yes!Lukes right!God made hell to torture people because he loves us!umm torture people?is this your standard of morality luke?God blessGreg
Michael,Not everyone leaves Christianity the same way. And not everyone has the same personality. And not everyone approaches a topic with emotionless logic.This site was created so those leaving Christianity would have a place to freely express themselves. Many of the regulars on this site, are surrounded by Christian wives, husbands, parents, bosses, etc., and cannot ever discuss doubts about Christianity without a huge backlash. When those same people come here, they have the freedom to let it all out.Do some people go too far? Maybe, but it is only comments on an Internet page. No one is really being hurt. And if words are too much to handle, then just log off the site. I mean, no one is being charged admission here.Another thing, Mike. On average, over 2,300 people a day log on to this site. To expect that every one of them sees things exactly like you is a bit unrealistic, don't you think?Now, the forums may be more helpful. Christians tend to come to this blog because they can post anonymously and run away. That's fairly typical of Christians who come here. In the forums, it is more of a closely monitored community. Give it a try and see if you don't have better luck finding the conversation style you are looking for.
Greg said: "God made hell to torture people because he loves us!umm torture people?is this your standard of morality luke?"Would you prefer Him to drag you kicking and screaming into Heaven? If righteousness, true righteousness as defined by Jesus and imprinted on your heart doesn't interest you, then He's not your master. Why would you want to spend eternity with your master, ie. your creator, if His ways don't appeal to you?For this reason and because He loves you too much to ever completely destroy you, He'll let people stay seperated from Him as they are choosing.The down side of this choice comes when people (ie. souls) realize that the only reason they can love today is because of Him. Seperated from Him, we'll no longer even have the ability to love, hence the "wailing and gnashing of teeth".Everyone has been made to love Him and be with Him eternally, everyone. It all comes down to your free will, do you agree with His judgement on you or do you actually think that the moral laws you formed for yourself are better than His?God Bless,Luke
Webmaster:point taken....I will check out the forums. thanks for responding.
Guess what? Jesus didn't have a penis after all.
Luke=marc?, Love doesn't condone genocide. Love doesn't cause someone to burn for their honest doubt when no credible evidence is given. If your god exists he should have done what jebus is claimed to have said he'd do and answer my honest prayers. If he doesn't do the things that jebus said he does, isn't that enough to make any reasonable person doubt? Of course it would.If one cannot be trusted with the small things(answering a simple prayer), then why should he/it be trusted with greater things(the rest of this life, eternity). You're describing a deity that isn't really in the bible, it's just the one you want to be in the bible...your imaginary friend. The deity described in the bible is a jerk, and not a very smart one at that. Immoral to its core(by any reasonable standard) according to the bible. Now, you can try to paint a rosy picture of your god if you like. Make him seem all warm and fuzzy and loving. Whatever makes you feel better. After all, that's kinda the point with you, isn't it. Feeling safe and secure so you don't have to accept reality. Because sometimes bad things happen in this life and it's way easier to think of some other place, some other life that is way better than this one. Easier. You don't need credible evidence for any of it. Because it's already what you want to believe.( I realize I'm projecting here but it's just to make a point, and because you could be marc) Great. I believed it too. But then reality came crashing down. Now I need credible evidence to believe. Got any? If I had to spend eternity with someone it would be with someone that actually cared for me and wouldn't make me burn forever for having honest doubts in a short life. Doubts I didn't even have before relying on god for my needs in the first place. If I do have eternity to look forward to, then wouldn't it make more sense to spend it with someone or thing that shows me it loves me in this life, the one I'm living now? That's much better than forcing the good things of this life to fit a particular dogma and ignoring the things that don't fit.That's what I'm telling you. My experience doesn't fit within your dogma. So something other than your dogma MUST be true. Reason, see how that works.(if this isn't marc I sincerely apologize for ever thinking that you could be that horrible person, if you are marc, get lost)
In regards to being eternally tortured in hell, Luke asks another: Would you prefer Him[biblegod] to drag you kicking and screaming into Heaven? Well, if it's really a "free choice", like Christians love to proclaim, then the need to "drag" people to heaven "kicking and screaming" would never arise, would it??? No, the only senario where biblegod would need to drag people to heaven against their will, is if everyone MUST go to heaven; if heaven is MANDATORY. And if heaven is MANDATORY, then it's not a free choice after all, is it? So, that little analogy fails. Luke continues: If righteousness, true righteousness as defined by Jesus and imprinted on your heart doesn't interest you, then He's not your master. Why would you want to spend eternity with your master, i.e. your creator, if His ways don't appeal to you?Let me remind you---this is an awfully silly line of questioning to be asking people who don't believe in heaven, hell, gods, devils, talking snakes, etc., in the first place. Hey Luke?..would you "prefer" Santa drag you kicking and screaming to sit on his lap and give him your wish list? See? 'Sounds silly, doesn't it?But for sake of argument, let me answer you: NO, if I had my choice, I would unequivocately NOT want to spend one second, let alone an eternity, with a being whose ways do not appeal to me. Okay?..fair enough? No problem, right?? Now...why would I need to be tortured because of it? Why can't I just cease to exist like every other living thing will cease to exist? What "point" would it make, to endlessly torture me?Luke: For this reason and because He[biblegod] loves you too much to ever completely destroy you..Awww....how compassionate!...."He" loves me too much to "completely destroy" me. Isn't that special?? Do you realize how insanely asinine that sounds?Luke: He'll let people stay [separated] from Him as they are choosing.Yes, "separated".....separated in God's specially-made torture chamber, for all those who either make the wrong "choice", or who were born in the wrong location on the globe.(which is most of humanity) How loving!Luke: The down side of this choice comes when people (ie. souls) realize that the only reason they can love today is because of Him. Seperated from Him, we'll no longer even have the ability to love, hence the "wailing and gnashing of teeth".The down side is that we have "grown adults" living in the 21st century who believe superstitious, legendary myths. But again, for sake of argument, if biblegod doesn't want my "soul" to go to hell, then simple: He doesn't have to send me there. He has unlimited options, right? Right..biblegod is "omniscient". Furthermore, surely you're not going to suggest that "God" would be FORCED to do something that "God" doesn't really want to do, right? If so, then apparently, even "evil" has an influence on "God"; "evil" is ultimately is stronger than the will of "God". Gee, that doesn't sound to "omnipotent" to me. May reason find you.
God would never force you to love Him, He's just hoping that when you learn about Him through His revelation (ie. Jesus), you'll agree and turn to Him.If my child doesn't want to come home because I don't allow pornography on our TV, does that mean that I don't love him? Just because I do know that it's better for him to be home with his family at this stage of his life, should I just disrespect my son by forcing him to stay home?No, of course not. Despite the pain it would cause us not to have our son with us, we simply cannot allow him to stay with us if he's going to continue viewing that porno.My love would never stop and my pain would only grow as I'd observe him becoming more and more distant from us, his family.This is, I hope, a descent analogy to the way God may feel about everyone that wants nothing to do with Him.So when someone spends their entire life saying no to the family rules, what do you think might happen at this death? At this moment his mind is shown with perfect clarity by God's light just how much he hurt his family by choosing his addictions over Love (impurity, pride, hate, etc..). This light, this sudden realization of the choices he made may not cause God to condemn the son. The son will see his life, finally, in His father's light and may very well condemn himself. The son's choice, his final choice…as defined by his life’s choices, is not reversible in this state of his existence.Our Father, everyone, is suffering to see us all rejecting His love.Why won't you become lovers of righteousness...lovers of God?!If something inside of you does draw you in to be truly good (even behind closed doors), then you have what it takes to fall in love with Jesus. If you're trying to do this on your own, you've probably noticed that you always fall short. Don't worry about falling short, we all do. God is hoping that you'll come to him just as you are, now, this minute!He's so close to you, he can hear your heart beating, your breath and your every thought and emotion. Nothing is hidden from Him and there is nothing that He can't heal if you ask for help.May God bless you,Luke
It's marc!!!!Gotta be!!I named that tune in TWO notes!Do I get a prize?
Luke/Unblinded/Marc/Yogi/whoever,For the record, the only reason I'm attempting to engage you in this conversation is for sake of argument. For you to state anything as fact about the wishes, demands, requirements, nature, disposition, etc., of the Creator of the Universe, is presuppositional at this point. If "revelation" and/or a religious figure-head is the best you've got for "evidence", then thousands of holy tablets/texts throughout history validate their respective creator gods/figure-heads. Now that that's hopefully cleared up.... You say: God would never force you to love Him, He's just hoping that when you learn about Him through His revelation (ie. Jesus), you'll agree and turn to Him.Again, no, biblegod is not directly forcing anyone to love him, however, biblegod is indirectly influencing people to love/accept him through threats of being tortured in a lake of fire for non-compliance. It's called coersion, Luke. It's the same as if you were being mugged at gunpoint---no, you don't have to give up your wallet.....but if you don't want to have your brains splattered against the wall, you'd better give it up. Do you see the analogy??? Luke/Unblinded/Marc/Yogi/whoever: If my child doesn't want to come home because I don't allow pornography on our TV, does that mean that I don't love him? Just because I do know that it's better for him to be home with his family at this stage of his life, should I just disrespect my son by forcing him to stay home?Let's see, not allowing your child to come home is supposed to be analogous with biblegod not letting certain people in heaven, correct??? If so, then not letting people in heaven is one thing, but keeping them alive and burning them with fire is quite another. Are you saying that because your child wouldn't be allowed at home, that you would track him or her down and set them on fire? If not, once more, your analogy fails miserably.Luke/Unblinded/Marc/Yogi/whoever: Why won't you become lovers of righteousness...lovers of God?!Won't you become a lover of righteousness?...a lover of Allah?!?!?
I guess our favourite chameleon troll forgot to get the memo. One does not require gods in order to be good.And this made Me laugh:"...Do you really believe that you're a truly moral person? I tell you, none of us are, Christians and non-Christians. The difference between you and I, is that I recognize and acknowledge my sinful nature."Oooookay. First you say that no one is moral. Then you essentially say that only Christians are capable of recognizing bad behaviour. If we're all as immoral as you claim, it stands to reason that no one on this planet would be capable of distinguishing right from wrong. Thousands of years of non-Christian case law, plus secular and religious essays on morality from all around the planet, say otherwise."He's so close to you, he can hear your heart beating, your breath and your every thought and emotion. Nothing is hidden from Him and there is nothing that He can't heal if you ask for help."(tries very hard to imagine Biblical deity making obscene phone calls and peering through windows with a telescope) Hi, Yahweh, you old stalker, you. Hey, dude, if you actually do exist, could you kindly do us all a favour? Specifically, we need respite from this headache that currently calls itself "Luke". It would be just peachy if it went away and never, ever came back to this site. Takk fyrir.
Luke wrote:>God would never force you to love HimLuke (aka troll marc),How about this human example then:So if there was this really hot sexy lady I fell in love with, and she refused to love me back, it would then be fine and dandy for me to kindly inform her that if she doesn't fall in love with me, I will put her to death (death for eternity or roast her body for eternity...if I had such god power) ?Yeah, there's a deal any girl would jump at with both feet.Your make-believe lord renders the same type of wonderful offer to all humans, and you really buy this crap deal as 'love'...Well Luke?Wow, I'd really hate to be your 'other half' in life.>He's just hoping that when you learn about Him through His revelation (ie. Jesus), you'll agree and turn to Him.The first thing I see wrong here is you're applying a HUMAN emotion onto your super god being.God actually feels the emotion of HOPE, does he?Okay, putting aside that he could actually have such HOPE feelings in the first place, we have a secondary problem here as well.Humans HOPE for something because we do not KNOW a thing will happen, but can only hope it will.If we KNOW for certain something will happen, we no longer would have a need to feel hope that it would happen.God is suppose to know the future, therefore he would never have a reason to 'hope', now would he luke boy?Also, just what is the "revelation" that would make me "turn to him".....That I won't fry in hell? I'm not seeing any positive benefits here in the god-employment package he offer us?>Why won't you become lovers of righteousness...lovers of God?Righteousness Luke?Would you please tell me the proper definition of this very important word?Every single individual has their own variation as to it's meaning.You also can't say it's defined in your bible book, because even xtians can't agree on it's true definition. What you THINK your idea of how the bible defines that word, would easily be disputed by many of your fellow xtians.If your god really did exist, he failed horribly in his communications of certain key elements of his message to us earthlings, this righteousness word being one of those MANY failings.So your question here is vague and in great dispute, even among your own fairy tale believers.Need I cite some examples to prove this to you, LUKE?>If something inside of you does draw you in to be truly good (even behind closed doors), Okay, outside my Tooth-fairy persona of stealing baby teeth from under pillows, from time to time; I already consider myself GOOD and not in need of repair..... or redemption, as you so call it.>If you're trying to do this on your own, you've probably noticed that you always fall short. Don't worry about falling short, we all doTrust me, I'm not worried one iota about this 'falling short', as you put it.I have no need to TRY and do this on my own, as it's not some unreachable goal to be obtained for me. I AM what I AM, and if I don't like something about me, I change it, just that simple really. Now if you're talking about falling short of money or wishing I had more knowledge of the universe, then I'll say that I know I have limitations but accept them as who I am, period.>God is hoping that you'll come to him just as you are, now, this minute!Again with your god doing this HOPING thing.Alas Luke boy, there is no god, other than in your own skull buddy, so get over it !!!>He's so close to you, he can hear your heart beating, your breath and your every thought and emotion. Nothing is hidden from Him and there is nothing that He can't heal if you ask for helpFirst off, your god doesn't heal ANYONE, including you. Not one of you xtians have provided one single piece of concrete proof on this healing stuff to us and you've had a million chances to do so. You only THINK god heals your cold or flu bug, but funny how a 'big nothing' heals the rest of us in the same manner.(I wonder if god heals broken cars to, hmm)If god is so close to each person, as you claim, then he sure has grown blind and deaf in the past 2000 years, as he pretty much ignores every needy human on this planet today.I'm also thinking he sucks at reading our thoughts, or he would know what we really NEED on this earth and hand it over on a silver platter....just cause he LOVES his pets so darn much.Oh yeah, I forgot...he likes to play hide and seek games, as well as getting us lowly humans to worship his great power, that he then fails to show-off to anyone these days.>Do you really believe that a God of love actually is happy to see any of His creatures turning away from Him? Do you actually believe that it's God's hate that is causing the obstinate sinner to be seperated eternally?Tell me something........if god actually gets HAPPY, does he smile to?Does he have teeth to smile with and if so, does he still have his WISDOM teeth.(ATF wondering how much a God Tooth is worth on the black-market of teeth now)Just like I said about god having HOPE, how would god feel HAPPY, or also feel HATE?If someone bows down to him, does he feel happy at that very second, or did he actually feel this happy emotion eons ago when he created each person and knew they would bow down on a particular day in the distant future?I would think he'd already have felt this happy stuff, the day he conjured up each person's DNA and saw what they would do in life, way in advance. So he wouldn't feel happy at the same moment you actually got down on your knees to him.By then, he had plenty of time to let this happy thought fester in his god-brain.It sure wouldn't be a surprise to him on the day you finally got down on knees to him.Part of why we laugh and smile is from the SURPRISE of the moment.Something god could never feel is surprise or the happiness instilled from being surprised, right Luke?I guess us humans got one-up on god in this case...LOL.How does God feel sad when we turn away. Does he shed tears like humans do.The god of the OT is shown as getting very ANGRY and JEALOUS.Don't you see the obvious here.....that all the emotions you xtians attribute to your god, mimic HUMAN emotions. Your god being SAD, HAPPY, ANGRY, JEALOUS, HATING, LOVING and having HOPE, are all HUMAN EMOTIONS.Doesn't this alone inform you that us humans made god in our image and put those emotional attributes onto your phoney god, and not the reverse here.No, of course you can't see the obvious here, because your BLINDED by your wishful thinking of a god saving your ass from all the perils of human life and death.>Do you really believe that you're a truly moral person? I tell you, none of us are, Christians and non-Christians.The difference between you and I, is that I recognize and acknowledge my sinful natureNo Luke, what you are really acknowledging is your inferiority complex.You think you are worthless without your god's hand holding yours, but at the same time, when you THINK god is holding your hand, you think you are better than any non-xtian is.Of course, when you can't control your sinful impulses, the guilt it generates in you makes you feel that god turned his back on you and then you feel worthless once again.So you go and pray and BEG your god to forgive you, making you feel all better again for a short time.You ride this emotional roller-coaster ride of feeling sinful to feeling god-like.Instead of taking responsibility for your own short-comings, you lay them on your phoney god's shoulders. Those of us who know there is no god up there, have to find the strength and fortitude to lie in the bed we make for ourselves and get stronger from doing that each day. Any inner strength you achieve, is false, as you FEEL it comes from god's love for you.When you can't control your sinful impulses, or your life isn't going the way you need it to, you fall on your faces, that is, until you can convince yourself that god has 'your back' again.What a way to TRY and live out life...WOW!!>The down side of this choice comes when people (ie. souls) realize that the only reason they can love today is because of Him. Seperated from Him, we'll no longer even have the ability to love, hence the "wailing and gnashing of teeth".You can't be serious here?You're trying to convince me that without your god there can be no love?Oh, so let me see how that plays out then.Us Atheist clearly have turned our backs on your god buddy, right.For some odd reason though, even without your god in our lives, we still are loved and love others. That must mean your god is providing this love emotion, even to those who already turned their backs on his face.Let me guess, god didn't really take our ability to love away YET, but for some reason he will in the future and that lack of feeling love will make us writhe in pain.How's that again Luke?Again, your concepts here are the stuff of fantasy/fiction alone.>It all comes down to your free will, do you agree with His judgement on you or do you actually think that the moral laws you formed for yourself are better than His?Your question implies that we actually believe your god buddy exists here, which we don't.However, even if we did, we would have to not only believe in your bible book, but also understand it the same way YOU do.As far as we are concerned, your sky god has NO judgment over humans, of any country or time period.Therefore, yes I do believe our moral laws far exceed your make believe laws of the bible and while imperfect, at least our moral laws are REAL and not from some fiction storybook.It keeps amazing me that xtians like you Luke, are so lost in life on this planet, that surely you would collapse to the ground without your fantasy god holding you up.It's like your entire worth is totally dependant on this made-up god and without it, you'd be just a quivering ball of protoplasm.Don't you think it's about time you looked in the mirror and decided it's high time to fend for your own self in life and realize there is no god to save your sorry ass !!ATF (who thinks brain evolution isn't working fast enough at times)
LUKE SAID:"Why won't you become lovers of righteousness...lovers of God?!"Loving someone who has failed to show his face in 2,000 years does not appeal to me. LUKE SAID:"Jesus....who is God." You mean, Jesus and other christians who are full of shit. However, you may end up being disappointed if it all turns out that it is "Allah.......who is God", instead. LUKE SAID:"Do you really believe that a God of love actually is happy to see any of His creatures turning away from Him?"Not our fault that he has failed to make himself "Real" to us by other means besides some stupid 2,000 year old book or some faulty spiritual belief. Once again there is no solid evidence that Jesus or the bible is real. It's only "Hearsay". LUKE SAID:"May God's Grace touch your heart. I tell you solemnly that unless He does, no man can ever have true peace and joy."Just like every other christian who posts on here you don't get it. A christian's worse fear is a non-believer who finds happiness outside of Christ. That scares the hell out of people like you. It threatens your belief system.LUKE SAID: "All believers should hope and PRAY that He wakes everyone from their sleep. Because He truly does want EVERYONE to accept His gift."People like you should quit telling others how to live their life, and mind your own business. As far as "everyone" getting woke up by Jesus/God, he's not doing a very good job at doing that. As a matter of fact, he is failing to do so. I could care less about what "He" wants anyway, and I do not want his so called gift.Your argument is weak Luke. There is nothing you have said that I will change my mind about what I believe. I'm sure there are many others who feel the same way that I do. Your God/Jesus does not impress me. He has no credibility, nor do you.
Brother Jeff....rock on!!! I have never met you, but you have given me more laughs in the short time I've been viewing this site, than I had in my entire childhood and teens, living with the fundy upbringing that was being forced on me, both physical and mental abuse. Don't ever change!
Rev. James:Sunday is coming, don't you have show to put on?
Astreja, I loved this: "(tries very hard to imagine Biblical deity making obscene phone calls and peering through windows with a telescope) Hi, Yahweh, you old stalker, you. Hey, dude, if you actually do exist, could you kindly do us all a favour? Specifically, we need respite from this headache that currently calls itself "Luke". It would be just peachy if it went away and never, ever came back to this site." That was hilarious, thanks for the laugh...several of the other posts were equally as funny, but I couldn't let that one go without comment.
This guy is hilarious and charming! I'm in love with his accent, too.
Delighted to be of assistance, notabarbie!
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