3/04/2008                                                                                       View Comments

Scouting and the atheist family

By Eris Discordia

Hi everyone! I have been hanging around this site for quite some time now and I feel like you all are my extended family! It is so nice to be able to voice my anti-Christian opinions, vent my outrage at their insanity and just rant whenever I am overwhelmed with frustration at having my rights continuously violated in this Bible-Hell called the Midwest, USA!

Today is one of those days, so here goes...

I have four lovely children. Two are happy non-religious adults who barely tolerate their crazy fundie relatives on their father's side of the family. My other two boys are ages 11 and 14. They are happy, well-adjusted atheists who appreciate the idea of being good, honest people just for the sake of being good. They don't have the pressure of having to please some imaginary god so they are free to explore their own conscience. They are amazingly grounded and seem to have no problems understanding right from wrong.

Now, having said that, I hope you will understand where I am coming from when I tell you that they are forced by circumstances to lie about their religious beliefs. You see, they are Boy Scouts. Since the Boy Scouts require a belief in God they play along. Both of them are working toward their Eagle Scout rank and since there is no other organization that offers this sort of opportunity they must misrepresent their beliefs.

O.K. I felt that I needed to explain that before I tell my story. We don't feel good about lying, but, personally, I don't have a problem with it since "the church" lied to me for 40 years of my life. I no longer have any respect for the "church" including those who represent it. the only thing I feel bad about is having to encourage my boys to lie in order to maintain their membership in scouting. That sucks.

So here's my rant: I am sure I am not the only person who has observed a general problem with the mentality that pervades Christianity. I have noticed that the more religious a person is, the more unreasonable their behavior gets. That is why it is so easy for cults to form. The men in charge of our scout troop are classic examples of this mentality. They really believe that "spare the rod, spoil the child" crap. Well, one of our scout leaders has carried this to the extreme and thinks it is ok to physically punish OTHER PEOPLE'S children!

Last year my (then) 13-year-old told me that while he was at camp, he was running to his tent to get something for an activity that was about to start. As he was running the scout leader grabbed my son's arm and yanked him toward him, jammed his face about 1 inch from my son's face and preceded to chew him out for running. My son told me that he grabbed his am so hard he thought for sure he would have a bruise. since my husband is an assistant scout leader, he asked me not to say anything because he knew that I was ready to go off on this guy and my husband didn't want me to blow my kid's chances of getting their Eagle Scout ranks. I found out later that he makes it a habit of physically grabbing the boys whenever they get carried away and start goofing off.

Shortly after this incident, I dropped my boys off at a scout meeting and this sexist, child abusing little prick COMMANDED me to stay and pray with them! I am NOT kidding! In fact, he talked down to me like I was less than a person because I was a woman! He is about 5 feet tall and I think he has a short-man's complex on top of his god-complex! His is a "good Catholic" with a wife and 6 kids. I could tell that he had no respect for women as well as children. Anyway, I shot him one of my famous "fuck you and the camel you rode in on" looks and went on my way. I showed remarkable restraint considering that I really wanted to haul of and slap him for hurting my kid. But I knew he was on the Eagle Scout board and that my boys would be standing before him in the future and my hubby begged not to cause a scene. So I let it go.

In the mean time I kept hearing stories from my boys about this man's aggressive behavior toward the kids and how the parents refuse to stand up to him out of fear. The boys absolutely hate this guys guts.

I spoke with my husband about it and we decided to wait for him to grab one of the boys in front of witnesses. This little prick is so cocky that we had no doubt he would eventually slip up in front of witnesses. Well, sure enough, he didn't let us down. A couple of weeks ago he grabbed a two 11 year old boys and yanked them toward his face in front of a room full of people. He was holding their arms so tight the boys looked like they were on the verge of tears.

Now here is what I find truly disturbing. ONLY ONE adult came to the aid of those children! The scout leaders did nothing. It was a parent that walked over to them and tried to neutralize the situation. My husband was walking toward the boys when the other parent got there first. Apparently the scout leaders are so used to this guy's aggressive behavior that they didn't even react.

Just so you know, my husband and I took the matter to the Scout Headquarters. I told them that they are looking at a huge lawsuit and and ugly scandal if they don't get this guy under control. We also made it clear that we will not have him judging our son's fitness to be an Eagle Scout since he obviously cannot control his own behavior!

However, the point of my story is this. I have seen countless examples of child abuse, sexism, racism and other forms of aggressive behavior in the church over the years. It seems to me that religion spawns this mean, nasty, aggressive, disrespectful attitude toward one's fellow human beings that defies all reason! What is it about religion that brings out the worst out in people?

Why is it that atheists are the LEAST trusted in this country when it is the sick, twisted, Christians that don't care how they behave because they are 'forgiven"?

It's just nuts! My 14-year-old is so fed up that he doesn't even want to stay in this COUNTRY when he is grown! And you know what? I don't blame him!

Anyway, thanks for this site! It is good therapy to get this out!

93 comments:

black swede said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
black swede said...

Eris Discordia Said:
"I have noticed that the more religious a person is, the more unreasonable their behavior gets."

Hi Eris,

I fully agree with you. The more religious (Christian) a person is the more bitter, judgmental, abusive, and hateful they are also.

Eris Discordia Said:
"one of our scout leaders has carried this to the extreme and thinks it is ok to physically punish OTHER PEOPLE'S children!"

Eris Discordia Said:
"Just so you know, my husband and I took the matter to the Scout Headquarters. I told them that they are looking at a huge lawsuit and and ugly scandal if they don't get this guy under control. We also made it clear that we will not have him judging our son's fitness to be an Eagle Scout since he obviously cannot control his own behavior"

Good for you Eris! I don't blame you one damn bit. Unless we stand up to these christian bullies they will continue to run rough shots on others, and they will continue to justify their actions by hiding behind their God.

Unless I gave them permission to allow them physically punish my child, there would be a major lawsuit against the Scout Master. I would probably turn him in for child abuse.

You also might want to consider contacting the ACLU and bringing this matter to their attention.

This guy needs to be investigated.

chuckyjesus said...

The good news is that there is now alternatives for scouting. There's Camp Quest. There are a few locations around the country (we need to get one in Texas!) Here's the link:

http://michigan.camp-quest.com/

Just Asking said...

In the beginning of your post you stated that your rights have been violated. Can you expand on that a little?

Bill said...

One fact about religious doctrine is the fact that it gives controlling people justification for their controlling and sometimes abusive behavior.

My late(not so great)father in law was a staunch Catholic who was the household dictator to my wife, her mother, and her brothers. He used the Bible as the basis to be a complete controlling abusive asshole, and he knew if he went too far, all he had to do was stop by the confession booth and all would be well.

He would have loved this Boy Scout leader's approach.

Now the big question. Is your children's becoming an eagle scout really worth putting up with that asshole? This guy needs a little jail time.

xrayman

black swede said...

Xrayman Said:
"This guy needs a little jail time."

I agree with Xrayman.

This guy needs a little jail time so Bubba can make this "Scout Master" into his own personal "Girl Scout".

ryan said...

This guy has a "short man's problem".

Uh.....if you see what I mean.

ryan said...

To "just asking"

What part of the galaxy are you from?

When someone assaults your flesh-and-blood, your rights as a man and as a parent have been violated. I would have trashed that "scoutmaster's" sorry ass.

You talk like a christian

Lorena said...

What is it about religion that brings out the worst out in people?

Well, these bullies are just acting out the behaviour of their leader: Bible God, the bulliest of bullies.

ryan said...

god has a short man's problem

eris.discordia said...

This is Eris Discordia - for some reason the site wouldn't let me use my usual ID.

Thanks for all the GREAT responses! I just wanted to let you know that we will not back down from this. Our sons want to be Eagle Scouts and deserve to be Eagle Scouts as they have worked very hard and put in a lot of service hours. I know that some of you are concerned that it may not be worth it. However, we see this situation as one that needs to be corrected. If we back down and allow this abusive dirt-bag to continue his behavior than we are no better than those pitiful, deluded Christians that live in fear of him. Also, if we do not do something to stop him then we are guilty of allowing a criminal behavior to go on unreported.

So we did what any rational, free-thinking, mentally healthy family would do; we reported it and then we insisted that this man have nothing to do with our boys in a leadership capacity. As long as he abides by our wishes, changes his behavior, and keeps away from our boys I don't see any reason to destroy their dream of becoming Eagle Scouts.

I also wanted to assure all of you that the issue is being addressed by the head hanchos. They were absolutely appalled when I reported this guy's actions.

I think our nation (or maybe the world) is at the point of being fed up with the religious cults and their devastating effects on families. Just look at the latest wave of protests against the Cult of Scientology! The tide is turning! More and more of us are taking a stand!

Go Anonymous!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QubW_LhiqDY&feature=related
http://www.partyvan.info/index.php/Insurgency_Wiki:Community_Portal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr-EaH7IX6E

karekare2112 said...

Yeah, the religious insanity is enough to make me puke. Today I had to listen to the person I share an office with tell her story about a conversation with her mother. The mother was expressing her concern about global warming, to which her crazy, Christian daughter responded that it's fine with her, because Jesus will be there to welcome us all home. So I guess in her view, we should do all we can to destroy our planet so that we can go be with our father, who art in heaven, shallow be his name. I mean, can you believe the stupidity?! Well, I guess you can, since most of you are all ex-christians, and had to listen to such garbage every Sunday of your lives. My story is a bit different: I clearly remember going to Sunday School and thinking what a bunch of rubbish it is to think that some dude named Jesus has the whole world in his hands. Strange that somehow, even at the age of four, I never believed the Christian story.

I feel sick to my stomach--literally--as I'm sitting here recalling the words of this woman. How can you have such little regard for our planet, our home? How dangerous a poison is Christianity that it can fry a person's brain to such a degree!

Peace, and thank...um, "goodness!"...for websites like this one!

karekare2112

Just Asking said...

Yeah, Christians are the worst. They bash everyone who is unlike them and lie to stay in volunteer programs.....oh wait. That's the atheists

bugsbny0909 said...

how long does your son have utill he becomes an Eagle Scout? Then I would suggest your let him stop. He may be an athiest but I believe this religious bull must sink in at some point. He's gonna have those memories, good and bad.
I suppose I can stand up for some christians, I think some area's in the south have a terrible cult mentality. That man you mentioned needs help. He sounds mental.

Lamb-on-the-Lam said...

Eris,

Why this fixation on "Scouting" as the pathway to acceptance and worthiness?

Your sons do not need a resume inclusive of Eagle Scouting to succeed in life unless they want to perpetuate the Christian attachment.

I bet that sterling scout leader listens to Rush Limbaugh. I was listening to the a.m. station while driving my car today and some man who was sitting in for Rush said that he doesn't mind that the United States is hated throughout the world. He said he considers it "a badge of honor" that we are hated. He probably asserts that we are a Christian nation also. How schizophrenic.

Take pride in your sons for who they are. Tradition is not always worthy of immitation.

Mandy said...

Just Asking Wrote:
"Yeah, Christians are the worst. They bash everyone who is unlike them and lie to stay in volunteer programs.....oh wait. That's the atheist"

I have not posted on here in quiet awhile, however I felt the need to reply to the above comment by "Just Asking".

As some of you who have been posting on here for quiet awhile already know, I am a "Transsexual Lesbian". I am also Agnostic.

Although I do not always agree with the Atheist's point of view I will say that I have received better treatment and more respect from most atheists and other Non-Chrsitians than I have ever received from any christian.

Christians have done nothing, but alienated my kind along with the rest of the GLBT Community. Christians have done nothing but interfered in our rights, and they continue to alienate and persecute my people.

It angers me anytime I hear some christian wine and complain about how they are persecuted and how atheists are so bad. That's a crock of shit. It is christians who do the most persecuting. Some christians (Not All) are just as bad as the Nazis were.

I have far more respect for atheists and other Non-Christians than I have ever had for most christians.

Unlike most christians, most atheists are willing to be more open minded, and most atheists are willing to accept people for who they are regardless of what they believe, or how they live.

Most christians reject and alienate anyone who does not live by the christian standard.

Mandy said...
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Mandy said...

In regards to Eris' post, I agree that we have to stand up to christian bullies.

Unless we draw the line and take a stand against christian bullies like the Scout Master who Eris was talking about, christian bullies will continue to run over, and oppress others.

Sometimes we have to take a stand, and fight back in order to make this world a better place.

If Eris were to take her boys out of the "Boy Scouts" and leave, it would be almost like giving that Scout Master and other bigots like him a victory.

We cannot continue to allow bigots to have those type of victories. We must stand our ground against people like that. This country should be for all people regardless of religion and lifestyles. We should not stand by and allow this country to become a christian dictatorship.

It is not fair for others who are different to have to live in fear of what a bunch of Right Winged Screw Jobs believe or want.

Just Asking said...

Mandy,

You said:

"Unlike most christians, most atheists are willing to be more open minded, and most atheists are willing to accept people for who they are regardless of what they believe, or how they live."

This statement is just silly Mandy. Atheists are open-minded and tolerant? You can't be serious? Just look at this website and those who post here. Tolerant? Open minded? Sorry but no. And Christians are just as bad as the Nazi's. How many Christians do YOU KNOW that have gassed and incinerated thousands of people?

I am sorry that some other Christians have been mean to you and that you feel alienated but come on, Nazi's.

And the ex-christians at this site crack me up. They do all the same things that they complain the Christians do but they do it under the banner of healing and release so it is ok.

Come on.

stronger now said...

Just asking:"How many Christians do YOU KNOW that have gassed and incinerated thousands of people?"

Well I know of a few people who professed christianity that have done such things. They were called Nazis. One was named Hitler.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

Just Asking said...

I've read just as many accounts that say Hitler was not a christian.

http://www.answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html


Prove to me he was a christian. His actions certainly would testify to the fact that he was not.

black swede said...

Just Asking Said:
"Christians are just as bad as the Nazi's. How many Christians do YOU KNOW that have gassed and incinerated thousands of people"

Well I'm sure if Christians could get away with it legally in this country they would do more than just gas a few gays.

Here is a prime example of the love of Christ that christians like to show and their so called tolerance.

http://www.godhatesfags.com/

black swede said...

Here is also the christian's version of Adolf Hilter.

Although he's now deceased, I'm sure there are plenty more out there who will take his place.

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/religion/televangelists/jerry-falwell/

stronger now said...

You're the one who started the guilt by association game.

Prove that he was an atheist. Then prove that all other Nazis were as well.

stronger now said...

My above post was directed at Just Asking.

black swede said...
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black swede said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
black swede said...

My posts are also directed at "Just Asking".

Here are some more examples of christian intolerance and hatred of those who are different.

Check out the name on the list, "Gwen Araujo", like Mandy she was also a Transsexual Woman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targets_of_Westboro_Baptist_Church#Gwen_Araujo

ryan said...

I have been reading this stuff for a few days and have been experimenting with posting. My name is Alexandra Ryan and my friends call my Lexy. I post under the name ryan because I am proud of it. We even have our own coat of arms.

To "just asking": you did not respond to my post and I dont blame you. If I were you, I wouldn't want to talk to me. You kind is below my contempt.

Your kind is forever defending themselves by saying "oh, they were not true christians". This is a variation of the "no true scotsman" fallacy. Look it up. I am guessing that you have a rudimentary intelligence. Guessing. You have probably heard of the Inquisition. Again, guessing. These horrible things were done in the name of your jesus. For 20 centuries, your kind has indulged in the most unspeakable cruelty, killing infidels; heretics; witches; jews; negroes; all those who are unlike you, and when it is done you wipe your mouth and wash your hands and say "oh, those are not true christians". It has worn pretty thin. Real thin.

The point is, "asking", that I have just recently outed as an atheist. I feel like a woman for the first time in my life. I have regained my mind; my heart; my conscience; my sexuality. I am done with that church; those imbeciles.

You made an attempt to talk tough, and failed. Miserably. You are living on your knees. Your life is an allegory of fellatio. I would not do that for any man alive, but you do it for your bronze age jew god. I want to gag in my lap.

I am not interested in any body count mentality; who is the worst; christians; atheists; muslims; left handed Norwegian violin players. I am glad to be me, and I would die before returning to the god that you obviously have no choice but to worship.

It is better to die on you feet than to live on your knees. Do you know who said that? Emiliano Zapata.

stronger now said...
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stronger now said...

Welcome ryan. I think Just Asking is just asking for it. Go get 'em.

Mind your own business christian said...

Ryan Said..............I feel like a woman for the first time in my life. I have regained my mind; my heart; my conscience; my sexuality. I am done with that church; those imbeciles."

I hear ya there. So Am I.

My father sold out his family in the name of his "God". My father's mind has been poisoned by the christian cult. He believes that he should put his "God" over his own family because the stupid fucking bible tells him to do so.

If I were to tell him to choose me or his God, he would choose his mythical invisible God over me in a heartbeat, because once again the bible tells him to do so.

My father gets angry at me for attacking christianity, yet he talks bad about black people and calls them names along with other minorities and gays. Plus my father is a republican and according to many christians that is "God's" party of choice.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I think it is high time that we take a stand against this christian lie once and for all and let every single christian know that we are sick and fed up with their bullshit, and that we are not going to take it any longer.

It's time people got off of their damn knees and started standing up on their own two feet and start standing up to these christian bullies and their mythical God.

Mind your own business christian said...

Fuck the bible and fuck Jesus both.

If Jesus wants all of these things from the people of Earth then he needs to lend a helping hand or shut the fuck up one!

I'm sick and damn tired of hearing, "THE BIBLE SAYS THIS.....

"THE BIBLE SAYS THAT......

I don't give a shit about what the stupid fucking bible says. I don't know why in the hell christians think it matters to us. It does not. The bible is worthless to me.

Christians are so stupid they cannot get a clue apparently.

Christianity makes people dumb.

Just Asking said...

To mind your own business christian,

You really think Christianity makes you stupid? Were all the ex-christians stupid before they gave up the faith?

You said "Christians are so stupid they cannot get a clue apparently."

So are all those ex-christians still stupid, or does giving up the faith instantly make you more intelligent?

boomSLANG said...
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boomSLANG said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
boomSLANG said...

Just Erecting Strawmen previously bleated:

I've read just as many accounts that say Hitler was not a christian.

Prove to me he was a christian. His actions certainly would testify to the fact that he was not.


Dear Just',

You make a lot of unfounded assumptions, but in any case, you are evidently either ignorant of Christian doctrine, or you simply pretend that it's not there. 'Shocker.

For instance, if, when you say, "his actions", you mean how Hitler committed genocide in an attempt to preserve and promote one specific group, then you must have "overlooked" several of the biblical "Holocausts".

Here are just a few:

"And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead." (Exodus 12:29-30)

"So the LORD smote the Ethiopians[blacks] before Asa, and before Judah; and the Ethiopians fled." (II Chronicles 14:12)

"And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under the axes of iron, and made them pass through the brickkiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem." (II Samuel 12:31)

So, tell-me-again... why was it that Hitler's actions "don't testify" to him acting in accordance with Christianity?

Also, you might want to have a look at this, as to avoid going through life clinging the erroneous view that "Atheism" and "Communism" are mutually inclusive.

Now, if you meant something else by "his actions"(Hitler's), then I apologize in advance, and look forward to some clarification.

Just Asking said...

to boomslang,

Generally be "Christian" means to be Christlike. Being as Jesus was. Knowing this, why do you quote text that Jesus has nothing to do with.

And if you want unfounded assumptions then read the other posts from your ilk like:

Mandy; "Unlike most christians, most atheists are willing to be more open minded, and most atheists are willing to accept people for who they are regardless of what they believe, or how they live."

"Most christians reject and alienate anyone who does not live by the christian standard."

black swede; "Well I'm sure if Christians could get away with it legally in this country they would do more than just gas a few gays."

ryan; "Your kind is forever defending themselves by saying "oh, they were not true christians". This is a variation of the "no true scotsman" fallacy. Look it up. I am guessing that you have a rudimentary intelligence. Guessing."

Just Asking said...

to boom,

I have never heard Christ say anything resembling what Hitler said. Can you show me any parallels between the two? And did I ever mention anywhere that atheism is somehow connected to communism? I think you are making an assumption there.

Jim Arvo said...

Just Asking said "Prove to me he [Hitler] was a christian."

I can't "prove" that to you. Nobody can. However, there is ample evidence for Hitler's belief in Christianity should you choose to consider it. For example...

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

(Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf)

I know that here and there the objection has been raised: Yes, but you have deserted Christianity. No, it is not that we have deserted Christianity; it is those who came before us who deserted Christianity.... The Church's interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against the Bolshevist culture, against an atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for the consciousness of a community in our national life, for the conquest of hatred and disunion between the classes, for the conquest of civil war and unrest, of strife and discord. These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles.

(Part of a speech delivered by Adolf Hitler at Koblenz, in August 1934)

In fact, Mein Kampf has dozens of explicit references to Christianity and its god. I don't know how anybody could read it an claim that Hitler had no belief in Christianity. For much more information see Hiter's Christianity.

ryan said...

To just asking:

My assumptions were not unfounded. I have heard many times, in and out of church, that the barbarous cruelty of the christian church was carried out by people who were not christians. Among fundies, it is said that it was the catholics, who of course are not christian.

I do not speak for the others here,but I have no desire to be polite to you or any fundie who comes wandering in here like a lost cow. I do not intend to show you the slightest bit of courtesy. And you used the term "christlike". Fuck jesus and all those who even remotely resemble him. christlike. jesus, that makes me want to gag. christlike. Why don't you imitate christ by dying?

Hi mindyourownbusiness, Lexy here. I so appreciated your show of anger. I am just now learning to show my feelings. I can lose my temper; I can even curse. I am not used to my sexual feelings just yet. I just got back from a lunch date with a REALLY nice boy. He doesn't have a lot of money and he somewhat apologetically took me to Pizza Hut. Shit, to be with that boy I would have eaten puppy chow. I just more and more feel like a real person. Glad to meet you.

And one more thing, just asking. The verses that boomslang quoted are appropriate. Don't play dumb. The ancient jews went out to slaughter off whole ethnic groups at the command of, and with the approval of, their sleazy primitive deity. Why don't you count the number of times they were told to kill babies? Do not play dumb and innocent with me, you little shit. The funniest thing in the bible is john 3:16. When the fuck did your god start loving the world? When did your god want us to be like jesus?

I am an atheist and proud to say so. I do not bend my knee to your fucking jew god.

Just Asking said...

ryan,

Take a pill and calm down before you hurt yourself

ryan said...

And why don't you eat my shit, you born-again asswipe?

Just Asking said...

ryan,

Your such a lady

ryan said...

I am not a lady, ratshit. I'm a woman. You wouldn't know the difference, would you?

boomSLANG said...

Just': I have never heard Christ say anything resembling what Hitler said. Can you show me any parallels between the two?

Whaaa?..you've never "heard Christ say anything resembling what Hitler said"..?..? Well no shit....of course you haven't, and there's a perfectly good reason for that. Either, a) "Christ" is dead, and thus, "He" doesn't have the physical vocal cords necessary for human speech.... or, b) "Christ" never existed in the first place, and thus, didn't, and couldn't, say jack-shit. Either way, it explains, perfectly, why you've never "heard Christ" mention anything regardling "Hitler".

On the other hand, if we, like all Christians, rely on the most popular source for what is proportedly The Word of this alleged "God", or "Christ" if you prefer, then yes, I can show "parallels". Of course, I refer to the book known as the "Holy Bible". In fact, I have given you three examples from said book, already. Would like to see more? Or does the "Holy Bible" not qualify as "The Word of God" when it makes your "Divine" baby-sitter look like a monster?

Let us know.

__________________________________


Hi Lexy. Welcome = )

Boe said...

To 'Just Asking'. Christianity values open mindedness in the same way that cancer values a living body.

Cousin Ricky said...

Eris, are you familiar with the god of Renaissance philosopher Baruch Spinoza? He saw God as manifest in the universe itself. In the words of Albert Einstein, he believed in a god “Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.” In this world view, God is little more than an abstraction—which is to say, imaginary. Hmmm, that’s what we atheists have been saying all along! So if push comes to shove, your kids can always say that they believe in Einstein’s god.

Just Asking wrote: “Yeah, Christians are the worst. They bash everyone who is unlike them and lie to stay in volunteer programs.....oh wait. That's the atheists”

Did you see the videos about godless morality? While I don’t know what Eris bases her morality on, most atheist use a simple standard: if it hurts someone, it’s wrong. While this usually includes lying, there are scenarios where telling the truth would be immoral. The classic example is if you were in Nazi Germany hiding Jews in your attic.

OTOH, the Judeo-Christian commandment, “You shall not bear false witness,” is an unconditional, direct order. No thinking, no thought to why God sez so, no personal responsibility necessary. Just following orders.

Meanwhile, since you presumably do get your morals spoon-fed to you from the Buybull, I refer you back to Matthew 7:1.

Cousin Ricky said...

Just asking,

Sorry, but your definition of Christian is circular. You claim that Christians are better behaved than atheists, but when presented with cases of badly-behaved Christians you say that they’re not True Christians™. So which is it? You can’t have it both ways.

Germany had been overwhelmingly Christian since the days of the Visigoths. If the Nazis weren’t Christians, then what exactly were they? (Don’t say “atheists.” If they believed that any God exists, then they were not atheists, by definition, regardless of their behavior.)

Just asking wrote: “Atheists are open-minded and tolerant? You can't be serious? Just look at this website and those who post here. Tolerant? Open minded? Sorry but no.”

I’m unclear as to what you mean. None of us are out to deny you your faith. None of us are trying to shut down your churches or take away your prayers and rituals. Do you mean that we don’t agree with you? That is not intolerance. And open mindedness does not mean that we automatically come to see things your way.

If you’re not pleased with your welcome, remember that you came here like a Jack Daniel’s salesman at an AA meeting. If you’d like a civil debate, you’re welcome to stay. If you’re here to preach, to bring us back into the fold, or to insult us, kindly fuck off. Your choice.

boomSLANG said...

Just asking: Generally be "Christian" means to be Christlike. Being as Jesus was. Knowing this, why do you quote text that Jesus has nothing to do with.

Oh f%ck, you evidently seek to get your biblegod "off the hook" with a technicality, don't you? Okay, fine---"Christlike", have it your way:

"And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead."[Italics added] (Exodus 12:29-30)

and....

"So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men."[Italics added] (I Chronicles 21:14)

and....

"And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."[Italics added] (I Samuel 6:19)

So now what?...will you tell us that "the LORD" wasn't "Christlike"?...that he wasn't a "True Christian"? Honestly, while such an attempt would definitely be pretty comical, it wouldn't be entirely shocking.

Bill said...

Cousin Ricky said,


"If you’re not pleased with your welcome, remember that you came here like a Jack Daniel’s salesman at an AA meeting."

I have nothing insightful to add to this discussion except that I am a recovering drunk and just saw a Jack Daniels commercial on TV and God Damn do they make that shit look good(when did they start advertising liquor on TV anyway?). Those fucking alcohol companies do all they can to get me back just as the Christians who come here try to do.

xrayman

AtheistToothFairy said...

Just Asking wrote:
"Were all the ex-christians stupid before they gave up the faith"
---
Is a young child considered 'stupid' when they believe in Santa?

When they become curious enough to realize Santa is only a myth, they become wiser of the REAL world around them, but one would never consider a child "stupid" for once having believed in Santa.

It's all part of the growing up/curiosity process, where we discover what's real and what is a fable.

No J.A.. the ex-xtians wouldn't be considered "stupid" to once have believed, but merely brainwashed; like ALL christians are.
See, the more curious (like those here) started to ask hard questions and managed to escape that mind controlling cult.
Thus, they became wiser.

Xtians get stuck somewhere in this growing up/curiosity process, while others learn to discard the myths of the xtian religion, just as children discard the myth of Santa.


ATF (Who thinks "just asking" needs to just ask himself, "What reasons did I have for giving up my belief in the Santa myth, and why is it now so HARD to give up the myth of a bible god")

talos42 said...

In response to black swede's first post...

"I fully agree with you. The more religious (Christian) a person is the more bitter, judgmental, abusive, and hateful they are also."

At my last job I worked with a non-denominational Christian who always passed the buck on God's judgment. In all-too-frequent religious debates he'd claim to not be judging gays, atheists, etc., but simply expressing God's will. Never admitting his own bias and opinions.

He was also a big fan of Christian conspiracy theories like the scientific community being elitists and the repression of polonium halo research.

ryan said...

Hi all. Lexy here. Would like to say hi to everybody but the list of names has become too long. Special hi to boomslang and to stronger now who both made me feel welcome.

Hi to black swede. I love your name; it sounds so evil.

I don't know if exchristian is going to work out for me. Yesterday I damned near foamed at the mouth talking to you-know-who. That baptist church I was in wants people--expecially women--to suppress their feelings. Since quitting, I have been spewing my feelings like an ox with diarrhea. It feels great, but it scares me.

And of course, the other thing is that fundamentalists teach that god-made-man-to-rule-woman. Maybe that is what set me off. The cute little bastard told me to take a pill. I'd like to give him a pill. I'd like to stuff a jar of
Seconal down his skinny throat.

Hi to Mandy and to mindyourown business.

And hi to you, just asking. You're out there, I can smell you. It's like being downwind from a slaughterhouse.

stronger now said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bill said...

Stronger Now said,

"Get's 'em all riled up when they can't logically defend their own beliefs. Some start to get real nasty and others just have this weird thing they do...kinda like their circuitry gets fried and all they are capable of is regurgitating bible verses."

That paragraph is the best discription I've ever seen that sums up the behavior of our visiting Christians. No matter how many thousands of times it is stated that Bible verse is meaningless fiction around here, their brains just short circuit and they can't refuse.

ryan said...

stronger, I will follow your lead. I feel like I have dropped into some exotic city and I don't know my way. I never suspected I had these feelings. I have even become (gasp) sexually active. Talk about strange feelings, jesus.

In addition to cursing like a longshoreman I have also learned to laugh. I could never do that--I had nothing to laugh about. I am learning to think. I have become a reader.

I don't remember saying this, but I might be bisexual. I have a boyfriend, and I also just met a nice--really nice--girl. Her name is Sheela; she is black as the ace of spades and her eyes dance like fire. She takes my hand and calls me Alexandra.

Damn, I have talked too much. Thanks strong; I need a little coaching

stronger now said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
stronger now said...

"I don't remember saying this, but I might be bisexual...Damn, I have talked too much."

No no. Please...tell us more.

stronger now said...

Dang It! I deleted the wrong post.

For those that missed it I'll redo it:

Hi Lexy!

I say let it out. If you need to vent go for it. I did when I first got here but after a while I realized that it was more fun explain to them why they're so silly.

Get's 'em all riled up when they can't logically defend their own beliefs. Some start to get real nasty and others just have this wierd thing they do...kinda like their circuitry gets fried and all they are capable of is regurgitating bible verses.

Then this one time a fundy troll was acting like he was "channeling" jebus. THAT was hilarious!

Give it a try, it's fun for the whole ex-christian family!

.:webmaster:. said...

Briget,

Knock it off. You're still not welcome here.

.:webmaster:. said...

Ryan is a troll.

Her (his?) point is to protray herself (himself?) as the nastiest, most foul-mouthed, crude atheist imaginable and get others to play along.

Please don't feed this troll. He, she, or it has been trolling this site for several years.

I don't know which are more retarded: the religious fanatics or the dumbass trolls.

Maybe it's a tie

stronger now said...

Crap.

From the movie Clerks:

Randal Graves: "I don't appreciate your ruse, ma'am."
Indecisive Customer: "I beg your pardon?"
Randal Graves: "Your ruse. Your cunning attempt to trick me."

Mind your own business christian said...

Webmaster Said:
"Her (his?) point is to protray herself (himself?) as the nastiest, most foul-mouthed, crude atheist imaginable and get others to play along"

I thought I was that person WM. Hope I am still welcomed here. I changed my name btw as you have noticed.

Phant

Mind your own business christian said...

Actually I consider myself probably one of the biggest christian haters, however I do not expect people to play along with my foul mouth, I just come on here to share my hatred of christians.

Hope you don't mind WM.

.:webmaster:. said...

Hating Christianity is understandable. Hating human beings isn't. I don't HATE Christians, but I do hate what Christianity does to a thinking mind.

Direct your anger at Christianity as much as you like, but leave the "death to all Christians" rhetoric at home.

freethinker05 said...

Thanks WM for the info. on these assholes. I don't know how you detect who or who isn't a troll, I don't understand why people can't be honest with themselves. hell, i like to cut-up with most people on this site, I try to be honest.

Anyway, thanks again, Roger...A/A

freethinker05 said...

Thanks for the troll info. WM. Roger.....A/A

freethinker05 said...

I don't know how you detect a troll, but thanks WM

Peace, Roger...A/A

Mind your own business christian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mind your own business christian said...

Webmaster Said:
"Hating Christianity is understandable. Hating human beings isn't."

I normally would agree with you on most stuff WM, however being told that I am wrong for hating certain people (Human Beings) is your opinion WM.

If I decide that I hate certain people that is my right to do so.

I know plenty of christians who hate people like you and me. To me the best way to fight back is to fight fire with fire.

I hate christians and I do not apologize for doing so. However, I will cease posting here since you do not like my content. There are other sites and places that I can raise hell about it. I may even consider starting my own site.

Take care,

Phant

.:webmaster:. said...

"If I decide that I hate certain people that is my right to do so."

Hatred of people for no other reason than because they are trapped in a cult or because they belong to a particular people group is bigoted.

Good luck and goodbye.

Mind your own business christian said...

Webmaster Said:
"Hatred of people for no other reason than because they are trapped in a cult or because they belong to a particular people group is bigoted."

I'll just say in closing this final comment.

I have been abused mentally and mistreated by other christians in more ways than you know WM.

My feelings are justified, and I really do not care what you think in all due respect. Until you have walked in my shoes, you are not qualified to tell me anything different.

I must say that based on your comments you are starting to sound just like a christian WM.

You're talking just like them. You think you automatically know what I've been through.

If you don't like the way I feel towards christians, that's your problem WM.

I know I am not the only one who has posted on here who feels the same way that I do.

Anyways, nothing personal WM, I just don't agree with you. I think it's best that I start a site of my own where I can vent my frustrations without having to worry about my posts being censored or deleted.

I have read your anti-testimony before WM, and you have not been through the mental abuse that I have been through in regards to these christian assholes.

We obviously do not agree with each other so I am going to leave it at that. Call me a bigot if you want to however that is your opinion.

If I didn't know any better I would think that you are starting to return to the christian faith by the way you are sounding with your comments.

Goodbye.

Phant

.:webmaster:. said...

Phant,

If you have been abused by certain individuals, then your beef is with those individuals, and those are all whom your beef is with. For instance, I have had some trouble with certain individuals of another race. Should I therefore hate all people from that race? Nazis did terrible things during WWII. Should we all hate all Germans? White people owned and abused black people for a few hundred years in this country. Does that justify hatred by black people against all whites?

Nothing good can come from bigotry. And nothing can justify bigotry.

Now, of course, you have a beef with me because I don't agree with your bigotry.

So be it.

Peace.

Dave8 said...

Well, I'll put my two cents in on this elephant.

When we post on this site, we tend to develop our role or virtual personality.

Some roles include;
-Logic police
-Seeking advice
-Providing personal experience
-Position clarifier
-Comic relief (in proper taste & threads)
-Belligerent poster
-Apathetic poster
-Etc.

I am sure there are many other roles, but I find myself many times playing the role of logic police and providing personal experience.

The purpose for this site/forum follows; "This forum exists for the express purpose of encouraging those who have decided to leave religion behind."

There are only so many roles that can be supportive of such an objective. Logic police tend to be fact checkers, providing personal experience encourages others who have left religion behind, getting a person to provide their position with more clarity also seems beneficial, etc.

However, there are roles that have no value towards the objective, it's that simple.

For instance, the name Phant is likely a spoofed virtual name; the role of the individual is to show the "dark-side" of the atheist, and their hatred of Christians, period.

This of course, goes in line with the agenda portrayed by the spoofed name; Marc.

Marc insists that this site's purpose is nothing but a means to remove Christianity from the earth as if it held ontological substance independent of humanity.

Encouraging people who have left or are in the midst of leaving Christianity and religion altogether, will in fact prevent some from going back to the fold and in some cases prevent future generations of religious followers.

The obvious problem has been identified long ago on this site... some people can't separate a persons' cultural belief from the person themselves.

Christianity is not an "ontological" being that will "die" if attacked relentlessly. It is not "alive", never has been, never will be. It is a culturally promoted belief, promoted by familial and organizational ties - sociology/anthropology 101.

The administrative challenge is in mediating discussions with such a highly dynamic and diverse audience.

While it may be near impossible to verify and validate screen names, spoof names, etc., it doesn't seem too far a stretch to identify roles a person takes with their post and treat certain roles accordingly.

Some, roles should be encouraged IMHO, while other roles... discouraged, by deletions, removals to time-out boxes, etc.

Until these roles are defined and taken seriously, in order to build a solid framework & protocol that can be administered, there will always be the insider threat. Insider threat, because posters are considered trusted because they simply have a virtual name.

If anyone looks at Phant's posts, it is quite evident the role of Phant; most times belligerent, apathetic to guidance from the WM and others, and using disruptive tactics to derail threads, in some cases by using multiple spoof names in a single thread, as a technique.

Some things I would enjoy seeing on an "article" that is posted on this site, is the "objective" of the author. Be it, advice for a specific question, encouragement for their particular position, etc., so that posters can easily be seen as supporting the author's intent or not.

If seeking an author's intent for their article isn't possible, then, the next step is obviously to make sure "roles" and "protocols" are established, in order to facilitate wide-open discussion.

Just my druthers I suppose... Phant, and the umpteen number of spoof names used by the same individual, are easily identified, I play along at times, but typically by staying in the virtual role I identify with.

Taking some words out of context, I believe there can be something said, for knowing them by their fruits.

Cousin Ricky said...

Phant,

Do you hate my mom?

Mind your own business christian said...

WM Said:
"Now, of course, you have a beef with me because I don't agree with your bigotry."

Uh, I'm not the one who has the problem WM, It's you who has the problem. You have a problem with what I have to say on here WM.

It is you who apparently does not like what I have to say on here to christians. So therefore, I'm not the one who has a beef (Problem). you are the one who has a problem with me WM. Instead of remaining neutral in this you have now made this your problem.

I have also read Briget's posts on here from the past, and apparently you don't like people who have strong opinions towards certain people. If you don't like my attitude then that's just too bad for you WM. The world does not revolve around you or your worthless opinion. I do not live my life to please you or anyone else.

You are just as bigoted as any other atheist who posts on this site. You hate christians and you know it. So you can put away your little, "I love everyone including christians" act". You are just as dirty as any other atheist. So stop trying to preach atheism as if it is all about love, and tolerance, because it is not. Atheism promotes hatred towards christians.

Call my so called bigotry what you want to call it. It's your opinion, and that's all it is. an "OPINION", and you know what they say about opinions WM.

You are in no position to say anything WM. You have disrespected christians on this site yourself. How hypocritical of you WM. You are just like Al Sharpton. You have a double standard just like Al Sharpton does.

You also edit and delete posts anytime a christian gives you the upper hand. You make it look like you are the one who is dominating the whole entire conversation, and you delete certain posts from certain christians just to make it look like you won the argument when in fact you delete posts when a christian gets the best of you. I've seen others make the same comments on here in regards to you deleting posts. You are a hypocrite WM. You do not like for others to see it anytime a christian gets the best of you, so you delete their posts. I have never said anything about it until now. I am not the only one who has ever pointed this out to you.

I'm done with you and your sorry assed "talking out of both sides of your mouth comments". Go ahead and delete my posts. At least I know you read what I had to say.

I don't need you or your site.

Cousin Ricky said...

I give credit where credit is due. While Xianity is xenophobic, homophobic, genophobic, and misogynistic, it also preaches a message of love. See, for example, Leviticus 19:18, Mark 12:31, 1 Corinthians 13, and Matthew 5:44. If WM Dave sounds like a Xian in this aspect, I’m all for it.

Notwithstanding its lip service to love, Xianity has given us too much hate throughout its history. Let’s not pour more fuel on the fire with more hate. That is what we tried to get away from.

boomSLANG said...

Oh gawd, please...

So, evidently, it's now gone from a disagreement with one person - in this case, the site's owner and Webmaster - to an attempt to paint "all Atheists" as "bigots"? Good grief....please, spare us.

.:webmaster:. said...

Phant said to WM: "You are just as dirty as any other atheist."

Well, once again a Christian troll shows his (her?) true colors.

Phant said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Phant said...

WM Said:
"Well, once again a Christian troll shows his (her?) true colors."

Now that's funny.

My family would disagree with your comment WM. Matter as fact, they say that I am full of the devil. Yet, you call me a christian. Imagine that?

You must have a very short memory WM. Apparently you have forgotten the content in my posts along with my hatred towards christians.

Here is what I have learned about you WM. This is your version of what a troll is:

WM'S VERSION OF WHAT A TROLL IS:

1) Someone who is not an atheist nor do they agree with the atheist's position.

2) Someone who does not agree with WM's opinions period.

3) Someone who tells WM what he does not want to hear, and someone who puts WM in his place.

If you were not so close minded WM, you would realize that you don't have to be an "Atheist" to not believe in the Christian God.

FYI, I happen to be a Deist, who does not like christians or most atheists. You're aware of why I do not like christians, however here is why I do not like most atheists.

I have found that most atheists like yourself (Not all atheists) think that their intellectual thinking (Human Mind) is the most superior form of life that exists in this universe. I have also found that most atheists are very arrogant and very close minded.

Anytime a possible piece of evidence is presented that might possibly prove the existence of a supreme being (A Creator), most atheists strike it down without even considering the possibility that they may be wrong about what they believe. Instead of being open minded about it, and making an attempt to study such information most atheists don't even want to bother with it. Yet, most atheists claim to be open minded.

As for Dave8's little "Analytical" comments:

Dave8 Said:
"If anyone looks at Phant's posts, it is quite evident the role of Phant; most times belligerent, apathetic to guidance from the WM and others, and using disruptive tactics to derail threads, in some cases by using multiple spoof names in a single thread, as a technique

Just my druthers I suppose... Phant, and the umpteen number of spoof names used by the same individual, are easily identified"

Dave8,

So tell me. Are you a scientist or something? You seem to be analyzing everything that I do on here, and you use big words...oooooh.....Am I supposed to be impressed?

You claim that "my spoof names used by the same individual, are easily identified".

Oh really? You sound just like WM. He thinks that every single post that is made on here by a christian is some individual named, "Marc".

First of all Dave8, I hate to break this to you, but you don't know shit about me, nor do you know who I am.

This conversation was really none of your business to begin with Dave8, and if I had wanted your "Opinion" I would've asked for it. Then of course, I realize that most people who live in modern day America don't know how to mind their own business in the first place.

Nor would most "Modern Day Americans" be able to survive life without a cell phone and their expensive SUV. Hell it would kill most Americans to have to drive down the road without yapping their damn mouth on a cell phone.

Most Modern Day Americans are fat and lazy couch potatoes who would die without the internet, cell phone, or their computer. It would kill most Americans to do a hard days work in the form of manual labor. I may use a computer, however unlike some people (Whose names I will not mention) seem to live on this website 24/7.

If it were up to me, people in this country who are fat would be denied health insurance which would be an incentive for most Americans to get off their fat lazy asses and lose some weight.

Also if it were up to me, anyone who was caught using a cell phone while driving a vehicle would automatically lose their driver's license for a year. The fact is that most Americans have forgotten that the main purpose for a cell phone is for emergency use "ONLY".

I would say that 99.9% of these phone conversations out on the road are not necessary, and they can wait until a person gets home. In case most of you modern day Americans have forgotten or didn't already know, in the old days, people talked on the phone when they were at home, and they survived without having a cell phone. Can you believe that? I guess the very thought of that would torment most of you who cannot drive down the road one mile without running your damn mouth on a cell phone.

The facts are that anytime you use a cell phone while you are driving, you are endangering other people's lives by your constant yapping.

If you need to make a phone call you should:

1) Pull over onto the side of the road or into a parking lot.

2) Simply wait until you get home.

However, I realize that most Americans are so spoiled and arrogant that the very thought of having to do so would be torture to most of you.

SamiB said...

phant said: "This conversation was really none of your business to begin with Dave8, and if I had wanted your "Opinion" I would've asked for it."

Yo phant, you're posting on a blog site! Whatever you write is read by all of us. And if we want to give our "Opinion" then we bloody well can. You know where to go if you don't like it! Or do "Deists" not believe in "HELL"

redtail said...

Yikes....somebody forgot to take their meds

.:webmaster:. said...

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion. -- Wikipedia

Phant, you are behaving as a troll. Please get back on topic. Thanks.

.:webmaster:. said...

Here is the comment that Phant deleted. I think it useful that it be preserved:

WM Said:
"Well, once again a Christian troll shows his (her?) true colors."

I never said that I was an atheist.

Nor am I a christian.

Geez WM, ya think if I were a christian that I would be on here bashing them? You must have a very short memory.

Here is WM's version of what a troll is:

1) Someone who is not an atheist.

2) Someone who does not agree with the atheist's position on things.

3) Someone who disagrees with WM.


In case you didn't know WM, you don't have to be an atheist to not believe in the Christian God. Duh?

Anytime someone disagrees with you, or any other atheist on here you start calling them a christian or a troll.

I now believe that this website is your little escape from the real world. Outside in the real world your opinion doesn't mean shit WM.

I happen to be Agnostic for your information.

FYI, Not only do I dislike christians, I really do not like most atheists either.

I have found that most atheists are pompous and arrogant assholes who think that their supreme thinking or education is the highest form of existence.

As for Dave8's little comments:

Dave8 Said:
"Some things I would enjoy seeing on an "article" that is posted on this site, is the "objective" of the author. Be it, advice for a specific question, encouragement for their particular position, etc., so that posters can easily be seen as supporting the author's intent or not.

Just my druthers I suppose... Phant, and the umpteen number of spoof names used by the same individual, are easily identified, I play along at times, but typically by staying in the virtual role I identify with."

Dave8,

First of all, you don't know shit about me, or who I am.

This conversation was really none of your business to begin with, so instead of remaining neutral you feel the need to put your 2 cents worth in.

One thing I have noticed about people who live in this modern day world is they don't know how to mind their own business. People today cannot resist sticking their noses where they don't belong.

You may have recognized some of my so called, "Spoof Names", however I doubt if you have recognized every single one of them.

I am very good at putting on a front, and I am very good at manipulation. I am a pro when it comes to manipulation.

I am the best.

Phant said...

Samib Said:
"And if we want to give our "Opinion" then we bloody well can."

Fine with me, if you want to get your head bit off.

The point is if you bother to make comments at me, and jump into this conversation then expect to get put in your place.

As for Redtail, my comments may seem heated, however I was calm as a cucumber when I posted my last comments. I have a very strong opinion and I do not go with what is popular as far as the American Mainstream is concerned.

Most people just don't like it anytime someone like me tells it like it is. That's what this is really about.

As for WM, don't worry pal, it had been a few days since I had even bothered looking at the comments on this site. So don't worry, I won't be back on here. I am done arguing with a bunch of piss ants.

Jim Arvo said...

Phant said "The point is if you bother to make comments at me, and jump into this conversation then expect to get put in your place."

As SamiB pointed out to you, this is a public discussion, open to anyone who wishes to comment (provided they do not make a nuisance of themselves). If you wish to have a "private" conversation, I highly recommend email.

Phant also said "Most people just don't like it anytime someone like me tells it like it is. That's what this is really about."

What I appreciate is a poster who can frame a reasonable argument, regardless of the point they attempt to make. It seems you wish to antagonize rather than argue. So, no, "telling it like it is" is definitely not the issue in your case--at least not from my perspective.

Eagerly anticipating being put in my place...

SamiB said...

phant said "I am a pro when it comes to manipulation. I am the best."

No phant-a-sizer, you are a sad, delusional little git who hasn't even the barest amount of intelligence to work out how a blog site works.

Oh you're the best alright, the best at promoting yourself as an ignorant, laughable little waste of space.

Dave8 said...

Oh dear, it seems we have some virtual frustration.

Phant: "As for Dave8's little comments:"

Note the virtual strained lines of tension behind that statement; anger management could do you some good.

Phant: "First of all, you don't know shit about me, or who I am."

Actually, I only need to know your virtual personality/identity, unless you are going to argue that your material being is represented by words on this screen.

Your virtual role is really all I care to know about you ;-)

Phant: "This conversation was really none of your business to begin with, so instead of remaining neutral you feel the need to put your 2 cents worth in."

I play the role of logic police, typically. That role is only neutral for those who seek logic and reason. To those who don't agree with logic and reason; there is the alternative irrational argument/opinion.

This site is an open forum; I consider citing something for what it is, to be totally honest and in unison with this sites’ service terms. I'd suggest you read the memo, but I suspect you are quite aware of what it states.

Phant: "One thing I have noticed about people who live in this modern day world is they don't know how to mind their own business. People today cannot resist sticking their noses where they don't belong."

This is a forum for discussion, I know, you want to talk at people, not with them.

Phant: "You may have recognized some of my so called, "Spoof Names", however I doubt if you have recognized every single one of them."

Well, at least you have the capacity to doubt; but like me, you have no way of knowing, whether or not I recognize you as an article's author, or mere poster on a thread...

Phant: "I am very good at putting on a front, and I am very good at manipulation. I am a pro when it comes to manipulation. I am the best."

:-) Well, I am sure we can agree that you seem proud of your ability to manipulate.

However, let's not lose focus on the object of manipulation.

In order for you to stay in concert with this sites' terms of service, you have to manipulate your mind, so that it works within the acceptable limits, as you make posts.

Your self-imposed mental manipulation, allows you to "fit in" for a while, but the cost is "all" at "your" expense.

If you attempt to quit manipulating your-self, and post according to your truer intentions, then you risk being exposed.

So, let's take an inventory of your options, if you truly don't agree with this sites' purpose or intent

-Personally imposed self-manipulation and posts
-Personally exposed self beliefs

If you move with personally exposed self beliefs, you risk being screened by the WM, most times.

It would appear your best option for posting on this site, is to maintain a measure of self-manipulation ;-)

Interestingly, when you play this role, you conform to what you consider to be the standard "atheist" position.

It must be frustrating for you, to act rude, etc., and have atheists disagree with you.

Isn't that ironic; you impose self-manipulation to play a role, and then get criticized because of your virtual personality.

Must be hard getting criticized for something you don't believe :-)

Dave8 said...

Hello Jim and SamiB, great posts, perhaps Phant will enlighten us on how an agnostic isn't an atheist and what they believe a True Agnostic or Atheist is :-) Have a great one. Dave8

Phant said...

I see WM that you are afraid to let everyone see my last post.

You preserve mainly "One Sided Posts", that benefit your agenda only, along with those posts that make you look good on here. You refuse to allow posts to remain anytime someone ends up putting you or any other person in their rightful place. You can't stand it anytime someone tells you or any other person on this site like it is.

I now know the real reason why you have a site such as this WM. Your "Ex-C" site is the only place where you can have any type of power over others, and this site is the only place where you can control a conversation. Having a site where you have such power helps feed your ego.

Out in the real world, you cannot control what others have to say, nor can you censor them. That is why you have this site.

.:webmaster:. said...

Whatever yous say, Phant.

Please read the site disclaimer.

Then, if you have anything to comment regarding the OP, then feel free to do so. If all you intend is to post inflammatory, confrontational, irrelevant-to-the-topic comments, your posts are not welcome.

Have a tremendous day!