8/04/2009                                                                                       View Comments

I can honestly say I hate religion

by Cesar

On the left is a bronze statue of Isis nursing...Image via Wikipedia

There aren't many things in this world that I hate but I can honestly say I hate religion. Religion is a cancer, a plaque on the human mind. Humanity is capable of such great things but it's a shame that things such as religion, greed and politics hold us back. So here goes my little rant, I hope this finds its way onto a person's monitor who is looking for some reason to drop religion but just can't seem to find one. So here it goes, my basic reasons why religion is bullshit.

1) Most of the world's religions came about in a time of great ignorance. Forget everything you know and put yourself in the shoes of someone 2000 years ago. No Internet, no TV, no information. How can people who couldn't explain why it rained, why you got sick or why the sun came up everyday possibly explain how the entire universe was created? They couldn't! They were people like me and you but with A LOT less information about the world we live in. Put it this way, I was watching this video in a presentation at work about information. It said that on the average, a person living today comes across more information in one week than someone living in the 18th century did in their entire life time! That is insane and its only 300 years ago... now imagine even further back, even less information.

2) Like I said in one of my posts on this site- The earth is just one planet around one star in our galaxy. Our galaxy is estimated to be a mid-size galaxy with about 200 billion stars. There are billions of galaxies in the observable universe. Do the math. Can anyone actually understand how big that is? To think we are some divine species and that a "creator" of such a vast universe would actually care about your petty little prayers or would play an active role in your daily life is just ridiculous.

Jesus actually appears to be a carbon copy of the Egyptian god Horus. 3) In case you haven't noticed the universe is a very violent place. Black holes rip matter apart in the most violent way you can dream of. Stars explode and take out anything orbiting it. Gamma ray burst can fry planet's atmospheres. It goes on and on and on. Let's take a closer look at our own planet. Look at the ecological system. Animals kill animals to eat. Animals kill (destroy) vegetation to eat. Everything is about destroying or consuming something else in order to survive. Violence is natural in our universe and our universe wouldn't exist today if it weren't for this violent cycle of death and rebirth. Now I'm not saying it's ok for you to go pick up a gun and go killing people but what I am saying is "god" doesn't care about you dying. If a deadly virus were to spread and millions of people died it's not "god's" will and no matter how much you pray "god" is not going to protect you. You think only bad people died when the tsunami struck a few years back? Everyone died, good people, bad people, old, young, men, women, kids, religious, non religious..etc What's the rationale behind a loving, caring god that allows thousands of innocents to die in such a horrible way?

4) What makes one religion right and all others wrong? No religion has any proof to back up anything they say. What makes a religion "true" for someone has to do with how they were raised. If your parents constantly bombarded you with crap when growing up and made you think that it was a sin to question it chances are you are going to follow that belief system and think it is true. It is a form of social brainwashing.

5) Jesus... man or myth? I for one never believed in religion as much as people around me tried to influence me however I did actually believe that at least a historical jesus existed, no supernatural water walking jesus, just a man like me and you. Recently I have come across some evidence that questions whether he even existed.

As everyone knows history was recorded through scholars that lived at different times. What is interesting about Jesus story is that out of about 20 non-church affiliated scholars that lived around the Mediterranean at the time of Jesus, not one mentioned him by name. That is very odd considering the big controversy he was stirring up at the time. Every major figure in history has been written about through several different sources but not Jesus. The only people to write about him were directly affiliated with the church. The biggest one was Flavius Josephus whose writings have come in to question throughout the ages. Not to mention that he wasn't even born until well after Jesus was dead. Also, if Jesus was such a big pain in the ass for the romans, why aren't there any roman records of a person named Jesus that was executed by them. It's all quite odd and definitely deserves some further research.

6) I have read and seen a lot of these conspiracy theories out there on the net and honestly I believe most of them are crap. I did come across one that stated Christianity was copied from ancient Egyptian religion. I read about how the ten commandments were a copy of a section in the Egyptian Book of the Dead. I was a little skeptical at first so I decided to order the book. I went to amazon and purchased a copy of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Guess what? They weren't lying. The similarities between the ten commandments and the Egyptian version were too similar for coincidence.

Jesus actually appears to be a carbon copy of the Egyptian god Horus. This particular information cannot be found in any history books and that what the bible thumpers will fight back with BUT they are found in the pyramids of Luxor, directly inscribed on the walls. They hieroglyphs say that the virgin Isis (Virgin Mary) was impregnated by the holy ghost of Neth, impregnating Isis.

Noah was also a plagiarism of belief system before its time. There are over 200 claims of the great flood before Noah's time with other figures similar to Noah, a good example is Gilgamesh which was written in 2600 BC. It talks about a flood and an ark with animals on it..etc you get the picture. If anyone wants this information leave a message and I can send you sources or you can just google it yourself. Once you start researching pre-Christian beliefs you will start finding so many similarities you will be amazed.

7) Religion is power. Granted they don't have the power they used to have but they still have enough influence so that their leaders will never have to worry about money. Someone once said that the best business to start is a religion. Religions takes in billions of dollars and don't have to pay a dime in taxes. Religion instills fear in the minds of it's followers. They try to tell you that if you don't accept it you will burn in hell forever. I mean damn, that's a pretty scary thought. So what to people do, they follow it just in case, I mean who wants to burn in hell for eternity. Look at catholics, they condemn the use of birth control. They don't want you to have one or two kids. They want you to have a huge family so their following can continue to grow along with their profits. The more people they have, the more donations they get.

Right here by my house there is an old church. They decide that they dont like the way it looks anymore so they start asking everyone to contribute more money. Some of these people hardly have money to put food on their table and they are contributing money they don't have for "god's" cause. So what does the church? They build a bigger badder church that wound up costing $7,000,000 when it was all said and done with. How can they do this when in the same neighborhood there are people homeless and starving? How about those TV Evangelists with their fancy cars living in mansions out on the hill. Why can't people see this is a scam?

8) How about all the horrible things the church has done over the ages. The inquisition, the crusades, putting people in jail or sentencing them to death when going against their beliefs.

Lucky for us now we have access to a wealth of information so they cant get away with most of the crap they used to get away with but people are still ignorant. A lot of people still live their lives based on fear. A lot of atrocities are still committed based on religious beliefs. We need to break out of this vicious cycle of passing on BS beliefs to our kids so we can finally end the stranglehold that religion has on the planet. The day we completely toss religion out the door and live our lives based on mutual respect for one another is the day this planet will start to become a true paradise where we can excel in things such as technology, medicine and other things that will benefit mankind.

So this is my little rant for exchristian.net. I hope this will spark a little flame in someone's mind who needs that initial push to breakaway from religion.

52 comments:

webmdave said...

Not to poo poo on anyone's parade, but even if humanity leaves behind these systems of manipulation other means will come to the forefront to control the masses. Government, anyone?

I don't have faith in humanity anymore. There will always be people competing for power or control. Sociopaths and power mongering folks run this show.

I do what I can to stay happy and ignore as much of the rest of humanity as I can.

webmdave said...

What we should have is a boycott religion day
We could make it 10.10.10 So as to give respect to the digital age that helped our world communication and the break down the walls of religion.

Do note everyone that when you go to religious forums, they are trying to argue their fairytale with proven science, don't get caught up in their ridiculous arguments. And above all: non-religious people DON'T go to hell. That will help your debate with any young want to be of religious ignorance.

I just went to "religious" forum and confirmed that extra terrestrials don't have souls (that with animals and vegetation and even computers!!) My my, I said to them. When any aliens ever land here on Earth they're going to mighty upset with these idiot religious groups.

Also be fully aware religion is on the down and down. As I'm older now I can actually see this demise over the last 5 decades. Their futile effort of promoting such rubbish has just made all of us stand up and say, They believe in what?!

Oh and any kids out there forced to grow up in these ignorant religious households (or sects even) Your best option is to get out, at all costs. No one is going to prosecute a child that fought his or her out of a religious sect, no matter what you do. You cannot be prosecuted if you are trying to stop (or get out in this case) of a crime being committed. Legally you can do anything to get away from it. We all hope that children in these sects actually do a lot of damage to get out. I hope these religious fools (nuttos) rot in their hell.

Religion=Ignorance
They all stopped learning thousands of years ago
It's time to stamp them out for good.
And good riddance to that waste of life, since we are all presently alive, not dead.

Anyway that's my rant, and I continue it on most religious forums (generally for a laugh at their pathetic existence)

webmdave said...

kimsland: I just went to "religious" forum and confirmed that extra terrestrials don't have souls

I've been told numerous times by these fundies, that if space aliens show up on Earth, that they surely will be demons in disguise.

Their purpose of course, is to fool everyone into believing in alien life and pull us away from their god etc..

After all, humans are the superior life forms, so surely an advanced space alien can't be another corporeal creation from the bible god.

ATF (Who truly believes that nothing is as twisted as a fundie mind)

webmdave said...

Nice article. Iam from iran so perhaps you will realise how hateful iam with religion. There is one paradox that i dont understand. i still see lots of educated guys that are stick to there stupid religion. Lots of them are confused and build some silly logic for themself to leave with their religion, But they feel something is wrong, but dont know exactly where. what they dont understand is that religion is totally wrong. you cant put a % on it. In my opinion the process of geting rid of religion is become slow. I dont talk a bout middle east country, they are totally lost. Iam mostly talking a bout west and mostly us. And its very dangerous. I think the reason is that polititions dont want to lose their vote. They dont have any big programm to fight with religion. And there is a very stupid idea in west that think we should respect anyone opinion. Iam worm those polition, one day they might wakeup and see their country is in the hand of religion guys. They think they can leave with it but they are wrong. I like the way that some of the EU country are dealing with religion, They are far away from religion. I really admire them. You cant imaging a shit of islam here in iran. Its a galaxy of shit, I cant even describe it how deep it is.

webmdave said...

Welcome Realtime!

Glad to have a voice from the Middle East. Are there many of you 'Free Thinkers' in Iran?

Believe me, there are many lunatic fundamentalists here in the U.S.!! Our politicians can't seem to make one speech without invoking God, it makes me sick!

In the U.S., the most hated group is the Atheists. I too wish that we would be able to move toward a more secular stance, like the Scandinavian Countries (the exact inverse of the U.S. when it comes to Religiousity - America has about 5-7 % Atheists; Norway has about 5-7 % Fundamentalist Christians!).

Perhaps we should just move to Norway! LOL! (:D

Thanks for your comments! I am very hopeful that you continue to come here and post!!

Again I say Welcome Friend,

XPD (Ex-Pastor Dan)

webmdave said...

Thanks XPDan for your kind welcome. I must say there is lots of Free Thinkers in iran. Iam sure iran have the highest rate of nonbelievers in middle east compare to its population. Most of my pal are nonbelievers atleast to islam iam sure. Any public Atheists activity in iran will directly lead to jail or hang like all the islamic nations. But in US you can explain your idea. We should learn what Scandinavian Countries dose to get to this point.

webmdave said...

Realtime -

What do you and your pals do when it comes time to face Mecca and pray? Do you have to pretend that you are Muslim? What does your familly think of your Atheism? Do you have access to Free-Thought books? How did you find your way out of Islam?

I hope that is not too many questions. I am very interested and intrigued in your story. It would be great if you could post a full testimony on this site. I know that this site is Ex-Christian but we would love to hear the story of an Ex-Muslim (I assume that you were raised Muslim). I'm sure that web master Dave would post your story.

I look forward to hearing more from you.

XPD

webmdave said...

I completely agree with everything you just said. Religion kills brain cells.

webmdave said...

The earth is just one planet around one star in our galaxy. Our galaxy is estimated to be a mid-size galaxy with about 200 billion stars. There are billions of galaxies in the observable universe. Do the math. Can anyone actually understand how big that is? To think we are some divine species and that a "creator" of such a vast universe would actually care about your petty little prayers or would play an active role in your daily life is just ridiculous.

And to think, as creationists do, that the whole thing was created with just us on this wee planet, with god tweaking the speed of light so that the whole shebang can be approximately 6,000 years old is both demented AND deluded.

And they wonder why we laugh at creationists!?!?

webmdave said...

Thank you, i love GOD, HATES RELIGION !

webmdave said...

The one that gets me is the point about a "personal god"! Really, do they really think he's watching over them and listening to all their fears and dreams. Aaaw, how sweet!

webmdave said...

Great post, what really strikes me is how many people come see the same things and come up with the same ideas independently of each other - Christianity borrowed from older religions, religion is control, none of the religions have any supporting evidence, all the major religions come from a primitive and dark time in world history.

Religion has figured out that if you indoctrinate a child before they reach the age of reason, then believing religion becomes the "default" for the child in later life. That child will likely grow up so that only absolute proof of the nonexistence of God will destroy their faith in the religion the child was raised in. Religion has also evolved "non-testability" defenses like "God hides his existence to test our faith" and "God doesn't make his existence known by actively opposing evil because God has to allow evil to exist in order to allow us to have free will", "God exists outside the physical world", etc. These "non-testability" defenses are of course all bullshit. The combination of "defaulting" a child to believe in religion until the religion is absolutely proven false and "non testability" defenses which preclude absolutely proving the religion false is the only thing that keeps religion alive as a meme in modern times.

webmdave said...

I feel so frustrated over "believers". How do you guys cope with the fact that so many people allow themself to believe in imaginary things

webmdave said...

TRUE!!!!! But I am ain't an Atheist. I am an Agnostik so I don't practise religions.

webmdave said...

I'm not dissing your position, but your article sucks. Nothing original or remotely thought provoking here. Religion may be a very necessary and beneficial mechanism to bind individuals together within a larger society. God is a point of reference, an unseen standard to which all canrelate to, which helps them better relate to each other.

Oh I'm sorry, religion is a cancer, completely uneccessary and concocted by a bunch of dumbasses. Sorry for making speculations more than that of an intellectual wannabe.

webmdave said...

BRAVO, SIR! You're a smart person. Great post!!!

webmdave said...

religion started when the first con man met the first fool its basically a cult and a scam

there was a time where everyone was of a certain religion (christian) and it had unquestionable power over kings... and theres a reason why we call that time the "dark ages"

webmdave said...

Love this because I am currently taking an ancient history class and we actually just compared the ancient egyptian polytheism to the first widespread monotheism (Hebrew judaism) and they have many similarities in their creation stories. Like your reference to Epic of Gilgamesh (basically an earlier version of Noah's Ark) and the creation stories.
Another question: If you have to worship God to go to heaven, what happened to the cavemen? Did they all go to hell? What about all the Mesopotamians?
Religion is a big fairy tale, and it honestly pisses me off how so many SMART people are conned by it! WTF?

webmdave said...

PS to all the agnostics out there...
You're all really atheists, just too scared to admit that there really is no god "in case you're wrong."
I think if there really was a God out there.. he wouldn't let you agnostics into heaven anyway...

webmdave said...

Bekaboo212:
"PS to all the agnostics out there...
You're all really atheists, just too scared to admit that there really is no god "in case you're wrong...."


Bekaboo212,
My logic tells me that I don't know what God is, or even if there is one, so therefore I'm forced to say, "I don't know." Dano

webmdave said...

Er, you really should read up a bit on agnosticism before continuing. I'd suggest "Agnosticism: A Very Short Introduction" by Robin Le Poidevin, which is up to date (it only came out this year) and covers most misconceptions about agnosticism.

Briefly, T. H. Huxley (oft called Darwin's bulldog) coined the term 'agnostic' to describe his position to fellow members of the Metaphysical Society of London in 1869 to express his position that he did not have sufficient evidence to reach a conclusion of atheism or theism and that he considered the problem insoluble. He did so partly because, in his own words, he felt "like a fox without a tail" for being neither theist, atheist, pantheist nor materialist.

Though the "unknown and unknowable" creed has since split into two, giving us 'weak' and 'strong' agnosticism, painting agnostics as philosophical fence sitters is just as poor a straw man as fundamentalist portraits of atheists as people "looking for an excuse to be immoral."

In the April 1889 issue of Popular Science Monthly, Huxley wrote the following explanation of his new agnostic philosophy.

"Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle. That principle is of great antiquity; it is as old as Socrates; as old as the writer who said, "Try all things, hold fast by that which is good'; it is the foundation of the Reformation, which simply illustrated the axiom that every man should be able to give a reason for the faith that is in him; it is the great principle of Descartes; it is the fundamental axiom of modern science. Positively, the principle may be expressed: In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated and demonstrable. That I take to be the agnostic faith, which, if a man keep whole and undefiled, he shall not be ashamed to look the universe in the face, whatever the future may have in store for him.
"The results of the working out of the agnostic principle will vary according to individual knowledge and capacity, and according to individual knowledge and capacity, and according to the general condition of science. That which is unproved today may be proved, by the help of new discoveries, tomorrow. The only negative fixed points will be those negations which flow from the demonstrable limitation of our faculties. And the only obligation accepted is to have the mind always open to conviction."

Here endeth the lesson.

webmdave said...

Agnostics do not think they have enough evidence to say with conviction that there is NOT a godlike being anywhere in the universe. Just like I cannot say with conviction that there are NOT any invisible pink unicorns anywhere in the universe, no matter how unlikely I find the idea to be.

Saying that something does or does not exist does not make the statement true.

webmdave said...

Thanks for your post, nice examples.

webmdave said...

Indeed, but taking an agnostic stance can make acquiring evidence for anything almost impossible -- (much like skeptic problem raised by David Hume does).

webmdave said...

I love you. My brain = your brain

webmdave said...

it's because they don't WANT to believe it's fake because they're scared of death.

webmdave said...

I love your vision I agree with most of it. I think we all have a long way to go. People love to sneer at others "stupidity". In other words " If you don't believe what I like. I of course will be snidely understanding because you're not that stupid. I hope. Your ignorant of the FACTS which I will gladly force feed you". We thrive on the misery of others. On the "defeat" of others. Always right. That's our undoing. If we let it control us. That's religion to me.

webmdave said...

Here I am over a year later, haha. I am not an Atheist so to speak, yet I do agree with your rant. I love religion as a topic of study. I myself am not very religious, and find people who are very religious rather arrogant and closed minded to the rest of the world.
Good read though. nice to know other people feel this way.

webmdave said...

I have so many questions, why did all this stories start, why are people stupid enough to believe the made up religion (like Mormonism), where did you get all this information, why do we have religion?
These are just some of the many questions that I have, can you please help?!

webmdave said...

that is sooooooooo fuXXing right god is not real mulder and scully are ailens forever?

webmdave said...

I was so pissed when the richest parish built a church that cost over 13 mil to put up. I smiled at my father and said, "well, it is good they fed all those starving people first!" Oh the catholics. Such hypocracy. Give more for a new rug? WTF. The priest gets a vaca to an island. OMG! I remember the priests actually bragging that they don't take a vow of poverty like the nuns. Well his good cigars and expensive scotch was fine.

Praise the Lorad and pass the money down the isle!
nina

webmdave said...

Great quote, summerbreeze.

I can't look at cathedrals, pyramids or castles without thinking about all the blood shed to support the egos of royalty or the excesses of religion. We humans carry a heavy burden of the blood of innocents to support our institutions.

webmdave said...

Timberwraith,

I agree with you on your point about if religion wasn't there that humans would simply substitute it with something else but religion is the problem that I am addressing, not the potential other problems.

I will be the first to say that humans have a lot of room for improvement. Humans are always trying to separate each other on all levels; "you're this race and im this", "you're from this country Im from this one", "Im from California you're from New York", "Im from Los Angeles you're from San Diego" We find any excuse to put ourselves in groups and then assume we are better than other groups. Religion is no different in that aspect.

What really bothers me about religion is that it discourages asking questions, learning new information and free thinking. Sure racism and sexism are not good for a society but neither one of those two will try to tell you the earth is only 6000 years old when there is plenty of factual evidence to say otherwise. Neither one will have you wasting your life away doing silly rituals and prayers hoping you wont burn in hell forever. Neither one will prevent you from seeking new technology to better our lives instead of just leaving it in "god's"hands. Neither one of those will prevent you from giving your sick child medical treatment instead of letting them potentially die because its "gods" will. I can go on and on.

Sure the world will not be perfect without religion, like I said we have a lot of room for improvement but it's a step in the right direction. You need to tackle one problem at a time.

I also disagree with you in your comment about you can't hate religion without hating the religious. I don't hate religious people. I have family and friends that are religious and I love them very much. I view religion as a form of brain washing that is done for power and financial gain for the elites in those organizations. In my opinion, religious people have fallen into that trap without ever have been given a choice since for the most part they were indoctrinated into it since birth. I don't hate them, I just want to help them. I want to help them get access to more information without the fear of being ridiculed so they can decide for themselves what they want to believe. That is my mission. Not that racism, sexism, homophobia, classism..etc aren't important, religion is just the battle I've chosen to take on.

webmdave said...

this is truly one of the best articles i read.. something that i truly feel is true is what i read.. interesting to see there are some like minded souls... i believe in a power but will not accept to describe this power under a word called religion.. just feel a power around you.. nice writing btw.. true religion is only to tune a mind when they are in the weakest states.. a word which is the reason for any politics on this earth.. else all countries/continents would be united always

webmdave said...

Totally agree with your "Rant" it gets me sooo frustrated when I hear people going on about "Jesus".... What I cant understand is most of these people a very educated. but still cant work out that this all fake! keep telling your story, hopefully people will start listening.

webmdave said...

Yep, checkout the similarities between the Egyptian god Atum and the Adam story in Genesis.

webmdave said...

As far as the Egyptian thing, one of my history professors, in a Christian college no less, brought up Pharaoh Akhenaten as a potential influence on the development of Christianity. He imposed a monotheism during which Ra was the only deity of the entire universe, and the priests and temples of other deities were done away with and outlawed for the duration of his reign. The jews were still slaves in Egypt during this time. Then there are the more commonly pointed to similarities that you already cited.

Christianity has stolen from many traditions over the years. The parallels between the Christian trinity and pagan gods for one. Several holidays (most notably Christmas and Easter, neither of which are truly Christian holidays) also have pagan roots. There is one blatant example of "slap Christian names on pagan ceremonies" in Peru. A pagan festival there involved sacrificing a llama to the goddess Pachamama. After the nation converted to Christianity, the festival still continued in Catholic guise, only now they sacrifice a llama to Mary each year instead.

webmdave said...

Sadly, the buggers are also making every effort to spread their *disinformation.

But they can't stem the tide of reality. I hope it washes 'em away some day.

webmdave said...

Sadly, the buggers are also making every effort to spread their *disinformation.

But they can't stem the tide of reality. I hope it washes 'em away some day.

webmdave said...

Their religion is "failsafe". If anything is fishy about it, they say it's the Devil's ploy to trick us.

And they don't need proof for their assertions. It's kind of like Kyle Reese's "fantasy" about robots from the future in The Terminator. The difference is that Reese's vision was *actually true*.

That's why their preaching is so effective to believers, but almost always falls flat for non-believers.

webmdave said...

I whole-heartedly agree with every point.

The book of the Dead has so many things in it, I nearly fell out of my chair when I read it. I think the story of Horus & his family is one of the best Ancient Egypt had to offer.

I have an Eye of Horus necklace that I wear on a near constant basis - before i broke from the church completely, I would wear it & ooooh, how people would look...I got a cheap thrill from it, I won't lie. ^_^

You gotta love how original Christians seem to think that they are,when all that they have is a hodgepodge of things that existed long before Christ did. And, according to them, he spent a good deal of time there when he was a kid so it makes sense that their religious ideas rubbed off.

Great post & one of these days, I should probably post something myself....

V

webmdave said...

Great rant! Every point you made is right on target. I also hope someone looking for a reason to drop religion will find this. We've also had a few trolls pass through here recently who could learn a thing (or eight) from you! Thanks for posting.

BP

webmdave said...

No kidding buffettphan !

webmdave said...

No kidding buffettphan !

webmdave said...

Cesar,
great rant. You hit the nail on the head. Check out the Greek myths, you'll find roots of christianity there too.
It is obvious, now that information is so readily available, more and more people will drop these archaic belief systems. The key is keeping the information flowing, which is why your rant is so important.
Thanks,
RLC

webmdave said...

iwishihad2000feet,
Your absolutely correct. But unlike others I hope when the christian reign finally ends we decide to keep their disinformation available as just that. Disinformation. That way people in the future will be less likely to make the same errors. Or possibly, just for a good laugh.
We as groups have had a habit of destroying the writings of past civilizations to find out later, we are once again repeating them as a "new" way.
Information is very valuable, both good and bad.
RLC

webmdave said...

when i was a christian, i used to find it sad when a church "died" but now when i think about it, it makes me feel better that a church "dies" one less church the better.

webmdave said...

Cesar,

Thanks for the post. That sums up things nicely.

BTW, Flavius Josephus was known to be an Orthodox Jew. There is widespread belief that his reference to Jesus as "The Christ" in his writing was an outright Christian forgery. There really is no way an Orthodox Jew would call Jesus "The Christ". I suspect many Christian interpolations or forgeries of documents have happened over the years.

I believe the numbers of "non-religious" will continue to grow fast in the US. Young Earth Creationism looks absurd. Biological evolution can not be disproved. No Rapture or Armageddon appear to be on the horizon. In time, fear will give way to reason for many people.

webmdave said...

I wonder---can you understand that not all "Atheists" want to convert the world to "Atheism", and that some simply want their own cyber-place to hang-out and be away from the religious majority?

Also, remember, "feelings" aren't necessarily right or wrong, so if someone's past experiences leave them feeling hatred for religion, then that's their right to feel that way. I concede/concur that anger isn't a desirable emotion, however, it can be a very cleansing emotion, and an integral *step* in the grieving process---that is, grieving the (unrecoverable) massive amount of time wasted believing a lie.

webmdave said...

I wasn't going to add to this conversation, but, I have to agree with the assessment that hate begets hate.

If the underlying issue, and it - is, the underlying issue, that most religions promote negative psychological compartmentalization, then doesn't it just seem 'logical' to 'not' validate and reinforce their pre-conceptions, by psychologically behaving as if one is negatively compartmentalized as well?

Those who are cognitively processing on the lowest levels of the cognitive domain, are 'not' going to be moved by high-order reasoning, that's an empirically testable fact of life.

In order to connect with those who are psychologically impinged, one must move through the affective domain and gain trust and influence - or - remain available for giving advice, when an individual becomes mature in their affective domain, and they are willing to slowly ease into the cognitive domain and increase their confidence, etc.

I'll add, tough, that I do despise the 'ideal' of religion, as an organized endeavor, it forces one to devalue their concept of self in order to elevate the value of something 'greater'; whether rational or irrational, whether based on empirical evidence or faith.

I've been accused of being my own god, and owner of my own personal religion. That only has value, if I give it consideration:

Madea - "It don't matter what people call you. It only matters what you respond to."

webmdave said...

I wasn't going to add to this conversation, but, I have to agree with the assessment that hate begets hate.

If the underlying issue, and it - is, the underlying issue, that most religions promote negative psychological compartmentalization, then doesn't it just seem 'logical' to 'not' validate and reinforce their pre-conceptions, by psychologically behaving as if one is negatively compartmentalized as well?

Those who are cognitively processing on the lowest levels of the cognitive domain, are 'not' going to be moved by high-order reasoning, that's an empirically testable fact of life.

In order to connect with those who are psychologically impinged, one must move through the affective domain and gain trust and influence - or - remain available for giving advice, when an individual becomes mature in their affective domain, and they are willing to slowly ease into the cognitive domain and increase their confidence, etc.

I'll add, tough, that I do despise the 'ideal' of religion, as an organized endeavor, it forces one to devalue their concept of self in order to elevate the value of something 'greater'; whether rational or irrational, whether based on empirical evidence or faith.

I've been accused of being my own god, and owner of my own personal religion. That only has value, if I give it consideration:

Madea - "It don't matter what people call you. It only matters what you respond to."

webmdave said...

I wish I could convert the whole world but that is not realistic and like I said in my previous reply to timberwraith, I only discuss this topic outside of forums and blogs when people initiate it. I don't go around to strangers saying "hey you believe in god, you're a fool"