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1/12/2010                                                                                       View Comments

Holymen/Madmen

by Carl S

"The divel will make bats out of all of y...Image by Fiver13 via Flickr

One summer, about three years ago, my wife’s brother, his wife, and a couple they knew with their son and daughter, came up to stay at our place for their vacation. The parents, all in their 60’s, and the kids, son 30’s, daughter 20’s, were all fundies. On the first full day, the women tuned into one of those Christian TV stations, and for the next two hours watched Nazi rally type praise and sermons, during which time I thought I’d lose my mind, even though I couldn’t make out the words, only the emotional intensity that came out loud like that of an attacking mob coming at you. They were totally involved.

In the morning, I would arise and find my brother-in—law reading his bible. One time I told him that what he read about the lord commanding the Israelites to cut open the women, take out their babies and kill them, was not “inspired,” and that anyone who claimed so should be questioned as to his motives. Furthermore, I said that on that basis it was all B.S. He just sat there, unemotional. All of these things so far make me think of how they channeled their love, hate, and in general, emotions, into only certain areas, neglecting or being indifferent to the outside world. They all appear to be good people, but disturbing in this way.

We were into day four of a seven-day vacation. The son, who had been without his medication since leaving on the trip a week earlier, was acting stranger than when he first arrived. He had refused to take it, and to say that he was acting strangely would have been an understatement; and when he wasn’t acting, he was a zombie. Here was a person with a mental state beyond our experience.

That evening, at dinner, he suddenly stood up and shouted at my wife and I that she was trying to poison him, and that Jesus had told him then and there that we were possessed by demons. His father and my wife’s brother tried to restrain him, and I pointed out to him that my wife was a churchgoer, but I doubt it did any good. The women attempted to calm him, also. When the men took him onto the back porch, closing the door behind them, I told my wife, “Look, we have large knives in this house. What if he decides to come after us?” We began thinking of going out to a motel, and when her brother came in, we told him about this. Then, the boy’s father came in to say that they had been praying over his son to drive the devils out, and that he’d be okay. I said, “Oh sure, and what about next time?” since he didn’t take his medicine and it was all mental. (I had forgotten that the son had gone on a riverboat ride with my wife and three other people the previous day. What if he had seen her as a “demon” then? Would he have drowned her? And what of the night before, when we locked our bedroom door because he was acting so strangely?)

My brother—in—law started phoning to find a motel, and the three men went there for the night. The next morning, everyone packed up and left early, the son not entering our house.

Perhaps what is most disturbing and tragic is the fact that these religious, righteous people haven’t learned from this experience; they still believe in demons and genocides sanctioned by voices. They still do not realize their emotions are being exploited via massive praise gatherings and channeled hysteria. And it was just a year before that this sister-in-law was in the hospital with her nephew who was dying a horrible, agonizing death from hepatitis C, and of whom she said, “Tom isn’t Tom anymore.” Yet, she still believes in a loving God and an eternal, unalterable soul. May I be so bold as to suggest that they are all suffering from delusions, refusing to learn from experience, and enthralled by mentally ill prophets and the writer of Revelations?

Oh, but not to worry, when these relatives got back home, they promptly sent the son to a Christian Counselor.

108 comments:

webmdave said...

How rude! If it was your place, they should not have turned on the TV to just any old thing that suit their fancy. They should have asked, not just if it was OK they watched your TV, but had taken into consideration what you would enjoy too, not just themselves. Secondly, if they want to read the Bible at your place, that is one thing, but if your brother-in-law brought up the conversation on the Bible, that was again rude. However, if you did, that was your prerogative.

Next, they seem so stupid and deluded to think that prayer was going to rid their son of demons when in reality he needed his medication. I don't think I would have been restrained enough not to go into the psychology of mental illness and the need for medication, esp in this man's case. He should not have been on that trip if he was that ill and refused to take his medication. As for the Xian counselor... well... those counselors are full of crap.

Granted, when my mother had breast cancer and was staying with us, there were some things I tolerated- such as her reading her Bible, but she did not start talking crap nor did she just turn on the TV to whatever she wanted to watch. Of course, she is hard of hearing, severely hard of hearing, and could care less for the TV. So, my sons had the TV for the most part and I did not leave my sons with her to supervise either- not just because she was sick, but because I did not want her imposing her views on them. It also helped that she did not feel qualified to supervise them, esp in her condition.

There is such a thing as respect and also tolerating some things in favour of relatives, but IMO, your relatives crossed the line in being tolerable, as well as being disrespectful. I don't think I could have withstood even one day of that crap.

webmdave said...

Carl S,

Thanks for sharing your story. That is some disturbing stuff. Sadly, I have known some people who were that way. They would attribute any seemingly good thing to "God". They would say "it was God" to the stupidest little things. I guess they thought they were in tight with God.

webmdave said...

Scary! And shamefully disgusting that anyone in 2010 still believes that $hit.

webmdave said...

The fundies in my own family will do this type stuff with TV and whatever. They aren't going to ask if they can. They aren't going to ask if my family is ok with it. It's part of their arrogant beliefs.

They really believe their actions only force us 'heathens' to do what they believe is right.

True story here. My fanatical fundy sister in law walked into my house one day and immediately grabbed the remote to my tv. She turned the station to TBN all excited about some show that was just starting. Of course she never asked if she could turn the channel. Never asked if anyone was watching the basketball game that was on, despite knowing I am a huge basketball fan. After turning the channel she immediately walked into the bathroom.

I picked up the remote and put a password protected parental lock on all the religious channels and turned the station back to my game. I intentionally left the remote in plain view and walked into the next room.

As soon as my sister in law got out of the bathroom she walked in to the living room and picked up the remote. She tried to turn the tv to her TBN program. You would think the mere fact I had turned it back to the game would have told her something. But that meant nothing to her even though it was my house.

The look on her face when she was asked for a password brought a huge smile to mine. She threw the remote onto the couch and stormed out of the room. I don't remember much about my basketball game from that day, but I remember enjoying it very much.

webmdave said...

ROTFLMAO! Thanks for posting that story!

By default, ALL xtian programming should be password protected. Or subscribed to through a special 'religious' package, just like the Playboy channel ;-) I hate that a portion of my cable bill pays for those worthless -- errrr... I mean DANGEROUS -- channels.

Now you've got me wondering if I should lock the channels on my tv to keep my fundy-hubby from tuning in. Then play innocent -- "Gee honey, I don't know. Must be some new default thing from comcast." He'd never figure out how to reprogram the remote. I do all that kind of stuff around here. He can't even figure out how to watch a dvd, let alone connect, set up, or program anything.

I just don't think I could keep a straight face long enough to pull it off.....

BP (who is still laughing out loud)

webmdave said...

Religion is the most de-humanizing activity one can engage in.

webmdave said...

LOL Great.

webmdave said...

Glad you enjoyed it. I agree that those stations should be their own separate package. Those stations remain locked to this day.

Maybe someday I will create a whole post about some more things like that I have done to my fundy family members when their they disrespect me and my family because of their religious beliefs.

webmdave said...

Wow ! How did you come to get stuck with these visitors from hell ? I presume you have pulled in the welcome mat & won't be afflicted with them in the future.

webmdave said...

It sounds like you have developed some great coping skills! lol

webmdave said...

I have been forced to figure out creative ways to let them know I don't appreciate the things they do. My wife doesn't want to completely cut off ties with her family and if I just went off on them they wouldn't even come around her any more.

Now, if it was completely up to me I would tell them exactly what I think of them and be thrilled to never see them again. But I respect my wife enough to not do that.

So we worked out a compromise that I can do little passive aggressive things to let them know that I'm not taking their crap without telling them what I think of them.

webmdave said...

This is some scary stuff! I wouldn't let them ever come in my house again.

webmdave said...

I guess I'm lucky in that respect. The only thing worth watching, with or without CC, to my fundie relatives, is the news. Everything else is wrong/sinful to watch. The TV ONLY goes on in their homes when the news is on and then back off again when it is over. The cartoons I allowed my sons to watch were too violent and/or had not "moral" value, not to mention I would watch "sex filled" rated R movies in front of my sons. IMO, R rated movies that are violent are a horrible thing to expose a child too, but there are parents who disagree with me and are the complete opposite. Personally, I rather have my sons exposed to "love/romance" than violence. Flintstones are hardly violent IMO, but be that as it may, cartoons like that are IMO fundy relatives' opinion "violent" with no "moral" value. Whatever.

webmdave said...

ROFL! I'm sure your husband would enjoy that one, BP.

webmdave said...

It's that last line that I find particularly tragic. People are sent to Christian counselors for a specific type of treatment - one that puts the patient's recovery second to the patient's faith. If the son recovers, most likely won't be because of the Christian counselor.

webmdave said...

Thank you Carl S for the story. Scary and sad. That man is suffering terribly and the parents have created an impossible situation. This is one example of how religion fosters a lack of personal responsibility and is dangerous (its the demons --locus outside themselves).

I don't know what state you are in but in CA had you called 911 the police would likely have 5150'd him as a danger to others and taken him in for a psych eval on an involuntary hold.

Since he had medication it sounds like he has seen an MD and they recognize he benefits from meds (settles the demons down). Hopefully the Christian counselor will see the need for further intervention, possibly hospitalization, to stabilize him on meds in a safe environment. Of course soon as he goes home the craziness resumes. In this family the guy doesn't stand a chance.

If/when he eventually hurts/kills someone/himself they will present as persecuted victims, blaming others, taking no responsibility.

webmdave said...

Ha Ha --great story!

webmdave said...

Flintstones are hardly violent IMO, but be that as it may, cartoons like that are IMO fundy relatives' opinion "violent" with no "moral" value.

Oh,come on. Don't your relatives believe the Flintstones to be a documentary about early man, living alongside the dinosaurs (Young Earthers, Hovind, Ham, Creation "Museum", and their ilk)? I know some of mine do................

;-)

I completely agree with you about exposing kids to love/romance movies rather than violence.

BP

webmdave said...

Please do! I have been grinning all day thinking about your story and can't wait to hear more of your adventures with funnymentalists.

BP

webmdave said...

That's a good point. Why do I have to pay extra to see Bill Maher?

Actually, I watch some of the religious shows. Those preachers give themselves away. Watching Olsteen its clear he's a psychopath. The others I've seen are scammers too. I find it entertaining. I grew up watching Billy Graham and Oral Roberts both of whose sons grew up to be multimillion dollar slimeballs. It is entertaining (to a point).

webmdave said...

You are absolutely correct.

webmdave said...

good grief! what a story! poor kid. he'd probably be all good if he just stayed on his meds. i've seen that goofy casting out of demons first hand and all i can say is what a bunch of whack jobs! sorry you probably had a crummy vacation as well.

webmdave said...

I'm eager to read your compilation of "christian-countermeasures"! You're a class-act exfundy, the more of your material I read, the more I appreciate your keen wit. Keep 'em coming...

webmdave said...

If you think about it, Scientologists are the same way-they HATE shrinks and medications.

As far as all this demon casting goes..ever hear of Benny Hinn? Check this out for a laugh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI.

Sad thing is , millions of people PAY money to see this garbage in person and will defend it to the death. Never mind his show takes in about $200 million a year but he still needs more!

webmdave said...

Someone on Ed Brayton's blog said the other day that he always makes certain to lock his car in Christian neighborhoods, because fundies have a poor understanding of the concept of boundaries. He was given a bit of a hard time for saying it, but I've been thinking about it ever since.

They really are like children - and not particularly endearing children, at that.

webmdave said...

Great story!

I'm so sorry the son was sent to a Christian counselor. This brought to mind a recent story where the Catholic church is asking the faithful to keep their Meth n' Holy Water visions of Mary private until they are investigated by "psychiatrists" AND "demonologists": welcome to the Church of Cognitive Dissonance....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catholics-ordered-to-keep-quiet-over-virgin-visions-1332016.html

I don't have such patience with my outpatient fundamentalist relatives. I just call it as I see it...I refuse to feed their godsmack-addiction. My relatives' worldview is not "cute". Their religious hobby is as toxic/deranged/sick as "Bible bingo and Bible scrapbooking"...and they hurt the most vulnerable people in a third world country. I have zero tolerance for the shenanigans.

My tactics are both overtly hostile and passive aggressive depending on the nonsense spewed. I disrespect their worldview to the very marrow of my bones.

webmdave said...

Man, don't even get me started on the idea of xtian counselors!!!
That's like the blind leading the blind. It can't work cause a xtian counselor is not objective due to their religious bias. They work from the assumption that humans are flawed and if they simply "conform" to the xtian way of life then all will be well. So, they spend their time working on bringing a client's mind to be "captive to the obedience of xrist" (sends shivers down my spine).

Anyway, yea, xtian counseling is useless.

webmdave said...

Thanks. I think I will have to make a series of stories for my dealings with the fanatical fundies in my family since several all at once would be a very long read. I love the phrase "Christian-Countermeasures". It sounds like a great name for the series. Would you mind if I stole your thought for that?

webmdave said...

If it's not in the Bible... Honestly, I never asked them about that. I basically got shut down by my aunt when I was talking about Evolution. She laughed and said, "I don't know where scientists get their ideas. It's not in the Bible." I responded with, "So a bat is a bird?" She gave me a dirty look and refused to discuss it any further. I would have pushed it, except she was lying in a hospital bed at the time being treated for severely bleeding ulcers, in which she had to have a couple pints of blood to save her life. Add to that, which I could have pointed out to her, that science she criticizes as not being in the Bible saved her life, was helping her recover and it wasn't in the Bible either. I didn't though because she was hooked up to liquid food going into her veins because her stomach could not handle it. Why disabuse her, a 69 y.o. woman at the time, just turned 70, of her beliefs immediately after she almost died? In her opinion, God saved her life. Funny how that works when it was a medivac helicopter and ER staff that actually saved her life. Just how much could I disabuse her of her beliefs at that time?

webmdave said...

Like children is a very apt description. Of course they like to call themselves 'children of god'. If there was a god I could see him saying "Where did I go wrong."

webmdave said...

sclesi,

Here is a great gallery of images. You can see entire galaxies slamming into one another. Each galaxy may have several hundred billion celestial bodies. Massive transformation of matter and energy is going on.

The Discovery Channel has aired some outstanding programs re. the violent nature of the universe. Stars collapsing. Gamma rays. Celestial bodies colliding. Black holes tearing material apart. Fascinating stuff. Doesn't appear to be an orderly process.

P.S. I took the avatar image from another thread on this site. I couldn't resist. I love that image.

http://hubblesite.org/gallery/album/galaxy/interacting/

webmdave said...

Boundaries. HA! I once worked with a fundy who felt entitled to raid the office fridge, including our individual bagged lunches brought from home. (Because of her, we even wrote our names on our lunches, just like school kids.) Since everything on this planet was created by god, and she was a christian, she had every right to anything any of us put in the fridge. She was entitled. So she said.

Ahhhhhh...... Life in the buybull belt.

webmdave said...

You did the right thing by not arguing with her at that time, definitely.

webmdave said...

Benny Hinn has me laughing hard....Here is an expert on Exorcisms, Lexapro, mental health, Pentacostals and Wal-Mart: Betty Butterfield...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdyM5eUXOPY

webmdave said...

Barbie_Brains -

ROTFLMAO!!! The best part was the Pentecostal Song Service going on in the background! It sounded just like our youth camps when I was a teen. Hands clapping to the beat, rinky-tinky piano, and a loud voiced song leader soaring above the rest........Ahhhh, memories.............

XPD

webmdave said...

XPD...I love Betty Butterfield! I've been a devotee of Betty Butterfield for a number of years...The guy is a drag queen from Houston and does a lot of her shows in San Francisco...I'm dying to see his show live... :)

webmdave said...

exfundy...WoW ! Fundys' can be soooo freakin rude. It's like THEY ARE INTITLED !!!!! I've been at the receiving end of their rudeness many times. Two weeks ago, my deceased Dad's former pastor & wife called us at 4:30 PM to say they were in town & wanted to stop in and see us. ( they were eating at a restaurant ). They came right over and stayed 4 hours ! ! To hell with the fact that just maybe WE had wanted to eat dinner too ! They NEVER once said " are we interupting your dinner-time ? ? ".........but then, they are better people than we are so I digress.........

webmdave said...

I blame them for ruining my like of cable tv. Apparently the religious right wanted people to have to pay for each channel individually, but then realized that if they did that, nobody would pay to watch their stations.

I could have gotten JUST comedy central, TLC, Discover, History and cartoon network .. but because of those guys . . . T_T

webmdave said...

Oh irony. The fact that evolution and biology are responsible for saving her life. SIGH*

webmdave said...

Hi exfundy!

Of course you may! I think "Christian-Countermeasures™" has a great ring to it, your tales would do it justice. A series of stories would be great, I've had this silly grin on my face since I read your first one.

Sorry this reply is out of sequence...

webmdave said...

Yes and I have to deal with the stupidity sometimes. If she weren't family, I wouldn't have visited her almost every other day, BUT since they air vacced her to here, I was the only family member in town.

webmdave said...

Sounds normal for fundies. They definitely believe they are entitled.

webmdave said...

many of these people have horrible pastors and tele pastors as their teachers. many are sincere, excited about their new faith, etc. but they are prey to these money grubbing, gimmick toting mega ministers who are in it for the $$.

webmdave said...

This business of boundary issues, and attitude of entitlement, is an aspect I hadn't previously considered. It contributes to my ongoing argument that it's a psychopathology.

webmdave said...

If ony you were right, psychman, that it is the blind leading the blind.

Truth to tell, it is the money-grubbing charlatan fleecing the ignorant and vulnerable.

webmdave said...

Exactly. If it were the blind leading the blind, they would have fallen in the ditch and expired long since. Thar's money to be made from them there gullibles.

webmdave said...

Carl S...Thank-you for your post. WoW ! My heart goes out to you.
Having to live amongst the deluded, is almost impossible at times. Take heart in knowing that all of us here have had weird experiences too. Just have to try & laugh at it all !

webmdave said...

exfundy....thanks for the reply AND "entitled"....just goes to prove that one shouldn't stay up into the wee hours typing !

webmdave said...

Why can't it be both the blind leading the blind and money-grubbing charlatans fleecing the ignorant.

webmdave said...

No problem with that.

I just thought the original didn't convey sufficient flavour and left me wanting more.

;o)))

webmdave said...

Unlike children, however, they are ineducable. More like teenagers who, from my recollection both as one and the parent of three, already know it all.

webmdave said...

Yeah. Out-of-control adolescents. That about sums it up.

webmdave said...

Thanks, Yalta.

webmdave said...

Indeed.

webmdave said...

Indeed.

webmdave said...

Thanks, Yalta.

webmdave said...

Yeah. Out-of-control adolescents. That about sums it up.

But, at the same time, manifesting a gullibility that would embarrass a teenager.

webmdave said...

Unlike children, however, they are ineducable. More like teenagers who, from my recollection both as one and the parent of three, already know it all.

webmdave said...

No problem with that.

I just thought the original didn't convey sufficient flavour and left me wanting more.

;o)))

webmdave said...

Why can't it be both the blind leading the blind and money-grubbing charlatans fleecing the ignorant.

webmdave said...

exfundy....thanks for the reply AND "entitled"....just goes to prove that one shouldn't stay up into the wee hours typing !

webmdave said...

Carl S...Thank-you for your post. WoW ! My heart goes out to you.
Having to live amongst the deluded, is almost impossible at times. Take heart in knowing that all of us here have had weird experiences too. Just have to try & laugh at it all !

webmdave said...

Exactly. If it were the blind leading the blind, they would have fallen in the ditch and expired long since. Thar's money to be made from them there gullibles.

webmdave said...

If only you were right, psychman, that it is the blind leading the blind.

Truth to tell, it is the money-grubbing charlatan fleecing the ignorant and vulnerable.

webmdave said...

This business of boundary issues, and attitude of entitlement, is an aspect I hadn't previously considered. It contributes to my ongoing argument that it's a psychopathology.

webmdave said...

many of these people have horrible pastors and tele pastors as their teachers. many are sincere, excited about their new faith, etc. but they are prey to these money grubbing, gimmick toting mega ministers who are in it for the $$.

webmdave said...

Sounds normal for fundies. They definitely believe they are entitled.

webmdave said...

Yes and I have to deal with the stupidity sometimes. If she weren't family, I wouldn't have visited her almost every other day, BUT since they air vacced her to here, I was the only family member in town.

webmdave said...

Hi exfundy!

Of course you may! I think "Christian-Countermeasures™" has a great ring to it, your tales would do it justice. A series of stories would be great, I've had this silly grin on my face since I read your first one.

Sorry this reply is out of sequence...

webmdave said...

Oh irony. The fact that evolution and biology are responsible for saving her life. SIGH*

webmdave said...

I blame them for ruining my like of cable tv. Apparently the religious right wanted people to have to pay for each channel individually, but then realized that if they did that, nobody would pay to watch their stations.

I could have gotten JUST comedy central, TLC, Discover, History and cartoon network .. but because of those guys . . . T_T

webmdave said...

exfundy...WoW ! Fundys' can be soooo freakin rude. It's like THEY ARE INTITLED !!!!! I've been at the receiving end of their rudeness many times. Two weeks ago, my deceased Dad's former pastor & wife called us at 4:30 PM to say they were in town & wanted to stop in and see us. ( they were eating at a restaurant ). They came right over and stayed 4 hours ! ! To hell with the fact that just maybe WE had wanted to eat dinner too ! They NEVER once said " are we interupting your dinner-time ? ? ".........but then, they are better people than we are so I digress.........

webmdave said...

XPD...I love Betty Butterfield! I've been a devotee of Betty Butterfield for a number of years...The guy is a drag queen from Houston and does a lot of her shows in San Francisco...I'm dying to see her/ his show live... :)

webmdave said...

Barbie_Brains -

ROTFLMAO!!! The best part was the Pentecostal Song Service going on in the background! It sounded just like our youth camps when I was a teen. Hands clapping to the beat, rinky-tinky piano, and a loud voiced song leader soaring above the rest........Ahhhh, memories.............

XPD

webmdave said...

Benny Hinn has me laughing hard....Here is an expert on Exorcisms, Lexapro, mental health, Pentecostals and Wal-Mart: Betty Butterfield...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdyM5eUXOPY

webmdave said...

You did the right thing by not arguing with her at that time, definitely.

webmdave said...

Boundaries. HA! I once worked with a fundy who felt entitled to raid the office fridge, including our individual bagged lunches brought from home. (Because of her, we even wrote our names on our lunches, just like school kids.) Since everything on this planet was created by god, and she was a christian, she had every right to anything any of us put in the fridge. She was entitled. So she said.

Ahhhhhh...... Life in the buybull belt.

webmdave said...

sclesi,

Here is a great gallery of images. You can see entire galaxies slamming into one another. Each galaxy may have several hundred billion celestial bodies. Massive transformation of matter and energy is going on.

The Discovery Channel has aired some outstanding programs re. the violent nature of the universe. Stars collapsing. Gamma rays. Celestial bodies colliding. Black holes tearing material apart. Fascinating stuff. Doesn't appear to be an orderly process.

P.S. I took the avatar image from another thread on this site. I couldn't resist. I love that image.

http://hubblesite.org/gallery/album/galaxy/interacting/

webmdave said...

Like children is a very apt description. Of course they like to call themselves 'children of god'. If there was a god I could see him saying "Where did I go wrong."

webmdave said...

If it's not in the Bible... Honestly, I never asked them about that. I basically got shut down by my aunt when I was talking about Evolution. She laughed and said, "I don't know where scientists get their ideas. It's not in the Bible." I responded with, "So a bat is a bird?" She gave me a dirty look and refused to discuss it any further. I would have pushed it, except she was lying in a hospital bed at the time being treated for severely bleeding ulcers, in which she had to have a couple pints of blood to save her life. Add to that, which I could have pointed out to her, that science she criticizes as not being in the Bible saved her life, was helping her recover and it wasn't in the Bible either. I didn't though because she was hooked up to liquid food going into her veins because her stomach could not handle it. Why disabuse her, a 69 y.o. woman at the time, just turned 70, of her beliefs immediately after she almost died? In her opinion, God saved her life. Funny how that works when it was a medivac helicopter and ER staff that actually saved her life. Just how much could I disabuse her of her beliefs at that time?

webmdave said...

Thanks. I think I will have to make a series of stories for my dealings with the fanatical fundies in my family since several all at once would be a very long read. I love the phrase "Christian-Countermeasures". It sounds like a great name for the series. Would you mind if I stole your thought for that?

webmdave said...

Great story!

I'm so sorry the son was sent to a Christian counselor. This brought to mind a recent story where the Catholic church is asking the faithful to keep their Meth n' Holy Water visions of Mary private until they are investigated by "psychiatrists" AND "demonologists": welcome to the Church of Cognitive Dissonance....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/...

I don't have such patience with my outpatient fundamentalist relatives. I just call it as I see it...I refuse to feed their godsmack-addiction. My relatives' worldview is not "cute". Their religious hobby is as toxic/deranged/sick as "Bible bingo and Bible scrapbooking"...and they hurt the most vulnerable people in a third world country. I have zero tolerance for the shenanigans.

My tactics are both overtly hostile and passive aggressive depending on the nonsense spewed. I disrespect their worldview to the very marrow of my bones.

P.S. You have to wonder how a psychiatrist feels being second guessed by a demonologist....

webmdave said...

Man, don't even get me started on the idea of xtian counselors!!!
That's like the blind leading the blind. It can't work cause a xtian counselor is not objective due to their religious bias. They work from the assumption that humans are flawed and if they simply "conform" to the xtian way of life then all will be well. So, they spend their time working on bringing a client's mind to be "captive to the obedience of xrist" (sends shivers down my spine).

Anyway, yea, xtian counseling is useless.

webmdave said...

Someone on Ed Brayton's blog said the other day that he always makes certain to lock his car in Christian neighborhoods, because fundies have a poor understanding of the concept of boundaries. He was given a bit of a hard time for saying it, but I've been thinking about it ever since.

They really are like children - and not particularly endearing children, at that.

webmdave said...

If you think about it, Scientologists are the same way-they HATE shrinks and medications.

As far as all this demon casting goes..ever hear of Benny Hinn? Check this out for a laugh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI.

Sad thing is , millions of people PAY money to see this garbage in person and will defend it to the death. Never mind his show takes in about $200 million a year but he still needs more!

webmdave said...

I'm eager to read your compilation of "christian-countermeasures"! You're a class-act exfundy, the more of your material I read, the more I appreciate your keen wit. Keep 'em coming...

webmdave said...

good grief! what a story! poor kid. he'd probably be all good if he just stayed on his meds. i've seen that goofy casting out of demons first hand and all i can say is what a bunch of whack jobs! sorry you probably had a crummy vacation as well.

webmdave said...

You are absolutely correct.

webmdave said...

That's a good point. Why do I have to pay extra to see Bill Maher?

Actually, I watch some of the religious shows. Those preachers give themselves away. Watching Olsteen its clear he's a psychopath. The others I've seen are scammers too. I grew up watching Billy Graham and Oral Roberts, both of whose sons grew up to be multimillion dollar slimeballs. It is entertaining (to a point).

webmdave said...

Please do! I have been grinning all day thinking about your story and can't wait to hear more of your adventures with funnymentalists.

BP

webmdave said...

Flintstones are hardly violent IMO, but be that as it may, cartoons like that are IMO fundy relatives' opinion "violent" with no "moral" value.

Oh,come on. Don't your relatives believe the Flintstones to be an educational documentary about early man, living alongside the dinosaurs (like the Young Earthers, Hovind, Ham, Creation "Museum", and their ilk)? ;-) I know some of mine do................

I completely agree with you about exposing kids to love/romance movies rather than violence.

BP

webmdave said...

Ha Ha --great story! I bet every time you think of it you smile.

webmdave said...

Thank you Carl S for the story. Scary and sad. That man is suffering terribly and the parents have created an impossible situation. This is one example of how religion fosters a lack of personal responsibility and is dangerous (its the demons --locus outside themselves).

I don't know what state you are in but in CA had you called 911 the police would likely have 5150'd him as a danger to others and taken him in for a psych eval on an involuntary hold.

Since he had medication it sounds like he has seen an MD and they recognize he benefits from meds (settles the demons down). Hopefully the Christian counselor will see the need for further intervention, possibly hospitalization, to stabilize him on meds in a safe environment. Of course soon as he goes home the craziness resumes. In this family the guy doesn't stand a chance.

If/when he eventually hurts/kills someone/himself they will present as persecuted victims, blaming others, taking no responsibility.

webmdave said...

It's that last line that I find particularly tragic. People are sent to Christian counselors for a specific type of treatment - one that puts the patient's recovery second to the patient's faith. If the son recovers, most likely won't be because of the Christian counselor.

webmdave said...

ROFL! I'm sure your husband would enjoy that one, BP.

webmdave said...

I guess I'm lucky in that respect. The only thing worth watching, with or without CC, to my fundie relatives, is the news. Everything else is wrong/sinful to watch. The TV ONLY goes on in their homes when the news is on and then back off again when it is over. The cartoons I allowed my sons to watch were too violent and/or had not "moral" value, not to mention I would watch "sex filled" rated R movies in front of my sons. IMO, R rated movies that are violent are a horrible thing to expose a child too, but there are parents who disagree with me and are the complete opposite. Personally, I rather have my sons exposed to "love/romance" than violence. Flintstones are hardly violent IMO, but be that as it may, cartoons like that are IMO fundy relatives' opinion "violent" with no "moral" value. Whatever.

webmdave said...

This is some scary stuff! I wouldn't let them ever come in my house again.

webmdave said...

I have been forced to figure out creative ways to let them know I don't appreciate the things they do. My wife doesn't want to completely cut off ties with her family and if I just went off on them they wouldn't even come around her any more.

Now, if it was completely up to me I would tell them exactly what I think of them and be thrilled to never see them again. But I respect my wife enough to not do that.

So we worked out a compromise that I can do little passive aggressive things to let them know that I'm not taking their crap without telling them what I think of them.

webmdave said...

It sounds like you have developed some great coping skills! lol

webmdave said...

Wow ! How did you come to get stuck with these visitors from hell ? I presume you have pulled in the welcome mat & won't be afflicted with them in the future.

webmdave said...

Glad you enjoyed it. I agree that those stations should be their own separate package. Those stations remain locked to this day.

Maybe someday I will create a whole post about some more things like that I have done to my fundy family members when their they disrespect me and my family because of their religious beliefs.

webmdave said...

LOL Great.

webmdave said...

Religion is the most de-humanizing activity one can engage in.

webmdave said...

ROTFLMAO! Thanks for posting that story!

By default, ALL xtian programming should be password protected. Or subscribed to through a special 'religious' package, just like the Playboy channel. ;-) I hate that a portion of my cable bill pays for those worthless -- errrr... I mean DANGEROUS -- channels.

Now you've got me wondering if I should lock the channels on my tv to keep my fundy-hubby from tuning in. Then play innocent -- "Gee honey, I don't know. Must be some new default thing from comcast." He'd never figure out how to reprogram the remote. I do all that kind of stuff around here. He can't even figure out how to watch a dvd, let alone connect, set up, or program anything.

I just don't think I could keep a straight face long enough to pull it off.....

BP (who is still laughing out loud)

webmdave said...

The fundies in my own family will do this type stuff with TV and whatever. They aren't going to ask if they can. They aren't going to ask if my family is ok with it. It's part of their arrogant beliefs.

They really believe their actions only force us 'heathens' to do what they believe is right.

True story here. My fanatical fundy sister in law walked into my house one day and immediately grabbed the remote to my tv. She turned the station to TBN all excited about some show that was just starting. Of course she never asked if she could turn the channel. Never asked if anyone was watching the basketball game that was on, despite knowing I am a huge basketball fan. After turning the channel she immediately walked into the bathroom.

I picked up the remote and put a password protected parental lock on all the religious channels and turned the station back to my game. I intentionally left the remote in plain view and walked into the next room.

As soon as my sister in law got out of the bathroom she walked in to the living room and picked up the remote. She tried to turn the tv to her TBN program. You would think the mere fact I had turned it back to the game would have told her something. But that meant nothing to her even though it was my house.

The look on her face when she was asked for a password brought a huge smile to mine. She threw the remote onto the couch and stormed out of the room. I don't remember much about my basketball game from that day, but I remember enjoying it very much.

webmdave said...

Scary! And shamefully disgusting that in 2010 so many people still believe that $hit.

webmdave said...

Carl S,

Thanks for sharing your story. That is some disturbing stuff. Sadly, I have known some people who were that way. They would attribute any seemingly good thing to "God". They would say "it was God" to the stupidest little things. I guess they thought they were in tight with God.

webmdave said...

How rude! If it was your place, they should not have turned on the TV to just any old thing that suit their fancy. They should have asked, not just if it was OK they watched your TV, but had taken into consideration what you would enjoy too, not just themselves. Secondly, if they want to read the Bible at your place, that is one thing, but if your brother-in-law brought up the conversation on the Bible, that was again rude. However, if you did, that was your prerogative.

Next, they seem so stupid and deluded to think that prayer was going to rid their son of demons when in reality he needed his medication. I don't think I would have been restrained enough not to go into the psychology of mental illness and the need for medication, esp in this man's case. He should not have been on that trip if he was that ill and refused to take his medication. As for the Xian counselor... well... those counselors are full of crap.

Granted, when my mother had breast cancer and was staying with us, there were some things I tolerated- such as her reading her Bible, but she did not start talking crap nor did she just turn on the TV to whatever she wanted to watch. Of course, she is hard of hearing, severely hard of hearing, and could care less for the TV. So, my sons had the TV for the most part and I did not leave my sons with her to supervise either- not just because she was sick, but because I did not want her imposing her views on them. It also helped that she did not feel qualified to supervise them, esp in her condition.

There is such a thing as respect and also tolerating some things in favour of relatives, but IMO, your relatives crossed the line in being tolerable, as well as being disrespectful. I don't think I could have withstood even one day of that crap.