2/04/2010                                                                                       View Comments

Faith In Hearsay

By WizenedSage

Religious fictionImage by ajschu via Flickr

Christian, your faith is not really in god and Jesus. Your faith is really in those men who wrote those ancient texts that now comprise the Bible. Now I’m not going to ask you to believe anything without providing evidence; I wouldn’t insult your intelligence that way. But let me show you the other side of this “faith” coin.

Let me repeat my thesis; your faith is really in those men who wrote those ancient texts. This is a very important point which, I’ll wager, you have never seriously analyzed. As you well know, you learned about god and Jesus from another human who told you about them. God and Jesus did not just appear to you. Someone told you about them, and you may have learned more by reading about them in the Bible and other books. This is what our courts call hearsay evidence, which can be defined as “evidence based not on a witness' personal knowledge but on another's statement.” It’s all about what other people have said or written. There’s nothing out in the world that we can all see together or test with instruments and come to the same conclusions about (this is why there have been so many gods claimed to exist). It is vitally important that you recognize that all anyone today really “knows” about god or Jesus is based on what was written by primitive people that you never met and know almost nothing about.

Neither god nor Jesus has ever shown himself to you directly in an unambiguous way. You may have had feelings, but feelings are just emotions and the only thing emotions can prove is that you’re human. When the Muslim says he has felt the presence of Mohamed, are you convinced? Couldn’t it just be a shot of adrenaline in his brain that caused his skin to tingle and the hairs on his neck to rise? Couldn’t that explain your feelings just as well? Could the Muslim suicide bomber blow himself up if he didn’t have convincing feelings? Yet, you know for certain that the Muslim is wrong about Allah and Mohamed.

You may argue that you have a “relationship” with Jesus. But how does one have a relationship with a being who has never acknowledged your existence? Have you actually seen him? Has he talked to you or left you a phone message? Is that really a relationship? Isn’t that pretty much the same kind of “relationship” I had with Marilyn Monroe when I was a teenage boy?

All you have learned about god and Jesus comes directly or indirectly from the Bible. Now how do you know these Biblical authors were telling the truth? How could you? They wrote about things that supposedly happened thousands of years ago; things that left little or no archaeological evidence, no confirmation by unbiased contemporary historians, and there are no photos, film, or DNA. And don’t just read apologist literature to prove I’m wrong here, read the other side too. You must know that the apologists only see what they want to see and ignore the rest.

And what do you really know about these Bible writers and the quality of their testimony? Can you be sure that they weren’t just drunk or eating mushrooms, or schizophrenic, prone to epileptic visions, delusional, or simply con men seeking power and influence? Do you really know for sure? How could you?

Yes, I’ve heard the story that Jesus’ disciples were willing to die for him, so that proves he was the real thing. This is really a silly argument. Jim Jones’ followers in Guyana were so convinced he was a genuine prophet that they drank the Kool-Aid. Does this make him a prophet? History is full of examples of people willing to die for things that weren’t true.

You are perfectly aware that these authors wrote some incredibly unlikely stories about things that you wouldn’t believe if you read about them in any other book. You would not believe that knowledge of good and evil could reside in a piece of fruit if you read it in any other book. And if you think those stories weren’t meant to be taken literally, then how do you know that for sure? The Bible itself never provides a clue except on those few occasions when Jesus announces he’s going to discuss a parable. And if those other wild Bible stories are just metaphors, then how can you be sure that the Resurrection was not also meant metaphorically – or heaven and hell, for that matter? Was Jesus just a metaphor? And what about god?

Obviously, everybody will draw the fact-fiction lines in different places if the Bible is full of metaphor. How could a god actually teach the facts, the truth that way? Isn’t that why there are so many different Christian sects, because everyone makes his own determination of what’s real and what’s metaphor, and what’s important and what’s not? Why would a god leave so much up for interpretation about stuff that’s vitally important, even life and death important? Wouldn’t that be rather careless for a god? Doesn’t all this suggest pretty strongly that men wrote this stuff all on their own? Wouldn’t a real god have done a much better, much clearer job of it?

If you take the Bible stories literally, then how do you hold down the doubts? Those writers wrote about talking animals and magical fruit trees and food falling from the sky and dragons and unicorns and 900 year-old men. How can you read of such things and not have serious doubts about the accuracy of those authors? Why do we never see any of these amazing things today? Did the world used to be full of magic and now it’s not? If god used these awesome signs to convince people in those ancient times, then why does he expect us to just take these writers at their word for them? If god thought he needed to show those primitive people signs, then wouldn’t it be pretty unfair of him to expect us much better educated, more skeptical people to just believe without any signs?

And surely you know that some of the things they wrote have been proven to be scientifically wrong or impossible. For example, they wrote that the world is flat (Daniel 4:10-11), but we now have pictures that prove it’s a sphere. They wrote that the earth is fixed, didn’t move (1 Chronicles 16:30), but we now know the earth moves very fast as it orbits the sun. The Bible authors wrote that all those tiny points of light called stars would someday fall to the earth, but they’re billions of objects which are all vastly bigger than the earth. They wrote that disease is caused by demons. We have since proven that disease is caused by microorganisms, congenital defects, or toxic chemicals. They wrote, “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest of shrubs and becomes a tree (22 Matthew 13:31-32).” We now know many other plant’s seeds, such as orchids, are smaller, and shrubs do not grow into trees. They also wrote about 4-legged fowl (there never were any) and rusting gold and silver (they don’t rust – never have).

These writers were obviously very ignorant about how the world really works. Isn’t it likely that they made stuff up to fill the gaps in their knowledge? In fact, haven’t we just proven that they did so, given their theories of the flat, immovable earth, tiny stars, 4-legged birds, etc.?

Of course, the Bible says you just have to have faith. But, if someone says to you, “Just take my word for it,” aren’t you suspicious? Shouldn’t you be? Doesn’t that suggest pretty strongly that he can’t make a very good case for whatever he’s selling? Don’t you suspect that he might be hiding something? This is the same tactic used to fill the mosques and Hindu places of worship, you know; people are told, “You just have to have faith.” Does it really make sense to you that a god created human intelligence and curiosity, but wants you to just shut it off when it comes to religion?

Everything that has been said or written about god or Jesus in the past 2,000 years and more is based on the writings of these ancient, unknown primitives. EVERYTHING! You see, your faith ultimately depends on these writers, one-hundred percent. Your faith is not really in god and Jesus, your faith is in these anonymous scribes and the hope that they were telling you the facts, the real truth about things. If they were wrong, then so are you. How can you have so much faith in people you never knew, people who may have been utterly whacko or devious, people who have, in fact, been proven to be wrong about so much? That is a faith with a pretty shaky foundation, isn’t it? What did those writers do to deserve such trust from you? Shouldn’t you think about this some more?




72 comments:

webmdave said...

Mate, this site should not be called ex Christian. It should be called never was a Christian. Hateful and spiteful crap that will not stand up to the truth. The Kingdom of God continues to grow in spite of the best efforts of haters. All your efforts will come to nothing and my suggestion to you is to find something useful to do with your time.

Blessing

webmdave said...

Go blow the homeless.

webmdave said...

How do you know people here were never Xians? And how do you know the Kingdom still grows? Islam is growing fast and they probably say the same thing about your "infidel" ways. Yes, you are an infidel to them because you don't follow Mohammad and you don't believe in Ah-yah nor do you believe in their book. Therefore, you're going to hell- in their beliefs that is. Because of that, and it says this in the Quran, Christians are apes (not realizing they are apes too. All humans are apes). It gets worse too, but by the end of the day, you, other believers like you, and strong believers in Ah-yah are just as hateful if not more hateful. An Islamic extremist would sooner chop off your head for refusing to believe as they do. We would never dream of chopping off your head. And what do you do? Threaten people with a lot of crap. It's just as bad in the end.

webmdave said...

jeremypaterson: "...Hateful and spiteful crap that will not stand up to the truth."

You mean, hateful and spiteful crap like "Admit that you're a worthless sinner and let Mini-Me Jeebus die in your place, or I'll torture you for eternity", Jeremy?

Troof. Yr doin it rong.

Jeremy, not only does your invisible friend's "Kingdom" only exist in the minds of believers, but your membership therein will automatically expire at the moment of your death. You, too, are fated to become an Ex-Christian.

webmdave said...

Obviously you didn't read or can't comprehend the site disclaimer. All your efforts here will come to nothing and my suggestion to you is to find another website on which to perform your mental masturbation.

(Calling XPD. Calling XPD. Where you?)

webmdave said...

Mriana -

Do you really want me to make nice with a 'doo-doo head' like this Jeremy Paterson.....uuuhhhh.....person?

Really? You mean you are not tempted to let some expletives fly after that moronic......errr.....I mean un-intelligent diatribe?

Really?

XPD

webmdave said...

Well... yes, I am tempted. I guess you can smack him around a little. Only because I can't think of anything more offensive to him than calling him an infidel. I guess I could call him something stronger, but I'm not that angry... yet.

webmdave said...

Please keep up with your brainless, pre-programmed Xian
denunciations of people who had the intelligence and analytical
skills to leave the fantasy land of Xianity. It is the arrogance
and smugness of people like you who drove many from the
church to begin with. Please keep up the good work!

And if you can convince your lazy mind to actually do some
research, start by reading all the testimonies here of people
who, believe it or not, were not only saved and dedicated
Christians, but many were also ministers.

In other words, do something useful with YOUR time. Besides
being a stooge for your local church.

webmdave said...

Very entertaining responses, you are a hateful bunch. I bet if you could some of you would chop my head off, LOL.

webmdave said...

Ridiculous. What would any of us want with an empty head? It certainly doesn't appear to be doing you any good.

You came in with hateful, and you got hateful right back for your troubles.

Now if you and your brethren ever get the control over others you so desperately lust for, I fully expect you all to start executing doctors, then homosexuals, then blasphemers, and so on, all with the utmost piety. I say this in all seriousness.

Friend, since you are here and appear to still be ensnared by a belief in a "Kingdom of God", can I be of any assistance in your deconversion?

webmdave said...

You just don't get it, do you? Whatever the case, I for one would not even dream of chopping one's head off.

webmdave said...

Where do you think this concept of 'separate graveyards in the suburbs' concept came from exactly?

webmdave said...

I really have no idea, except that the various religions, for one reason or another, couldn't bear the thought of being buried close to someone of a different religion.

I'm in Australia and recently some local people have been researching our local cemetery. I, and the researchers, were amazed to find that 100 years ago, our local indigenous people(who weren't of any Western faith, but had(and still have) their own spirits(gods?) were actually buried OUTSIDE of the cemetery, actually on the roadside! They weren't allowed INSIDE the cemetery boundaries!

Jews were buried away from Anglicans or Catholics, each in their own area. Incredible! As if we are not all humans together on this planet.

I like your question and am sorry that I can't answer it in more detail.

webmdave said...

The sequel was the over the top hilarity for me. What a crock of shit!

webmdave said...

The sequel was the over the top hilarity for me. What a crock of shit!

webmdave said...

Ridiculous. What would any of us want with an empty head? It certainly doesn't appear to be doing you any good.

You came in with hateful, and you got hateful right back for your troubles.

Now if you and your brethren ever get the control over others you so desperately lust for, I fully expect you all to start executing doctors, then homosexuals, then blasphemers, and so on, all with the utmost piety. I say this in all seriousness.

Friend, since you are here and appear to still be ensnared by a belief in a "Kingdom of God", can I be of any assistance in your deconversion?

webmdave said...

jeremypaterson: "...Hateful and spiteful crap that will not stand up to the truth."

You mean, hateful and spiteful crap like "Admit that you're a worthless sinner and let Mini-Me Jeebus die in your place, or I'll torture you for eternity", Jeremy?

Troof. Yr doin it rong.

Jeremy, not only does your invisible friend's "Kingdom" only exist in the minds of believers, but your membership therein will automatically expire at the moment of your death. You, too, are fated to become an Ex-Christian.

webmdave said...

You just don't get it, do you? Whatever the case, I for one would not even dream of chopping one's head off.

webmdave said...

Please keep up with your brainless, pre-programmed Xian
denunciations of people who had the intelligence and analytical
skills to leave the fantasy land of Xianity. It is the arrogance
and smugness of people like you who drove many from the
church to begin with. Please keep up the good work!

And if you can convince your lazy mind to actually do some
research, start by reading all the testimonies here of people
who, believe it or not, were not only saved and dedicated
Christians, but many were also ministers.

In other words, do something useful with YOUR time. Besides
being a stooge for your local church.

webmdave said...

Very entertaining responses, you are a hateful bunch. I bet if you could some of you would chop my head off, LOL.

webmdave said...

Well... yes, I am tempted. I guess you can smack him around a little. Only because I can't think of anything more offensive to him than calling him an infidel. I guess I could call him something stronger, but I'm not that angry... yet.

webmdave said...

Mriana -

Do you really want me to make nice with a 'doo-doo head' like this Jeremy Paterson.....uuuhhhh.....person?

Really? You mean you are not tempted to let some expletives fly after that moronic......errr.....I mean un-intelligent diatribe?

Really?

XPD

webmdave said...

Obviously you didn't read or can't comprehend the site disclaimer. All your efforts here will come to nothing and my suggestion to you is to find another website on which to perform your mental masturbation.

(Calling XPD. Calling XPD. Where you?)

webmdave said...

How do you know people here were never Xians? And how do you know the Kingdom still grows? Islam is growing fast and they probably say the same thing about your "infidel" ways. Yes, you are an infidel to them because you don't follow Mohammad and you don't believe in Ah-yah nor do you believe in their book. Therefore, you're going to hell- in their beliefs that is. Because of that, and it says this in the Quran, Christians are apes (not realizing they are apes too. All humans are apes). It gets worse too, but by the end of the day, you, other believers like you, and strong believers in Ah-yah are just as hateful if not more hateful. An Islamic extremist would sooner chop off your head for refusing to believe as they do. We would never dream of chopping off your head. And what do you do? Threaten people with a lot of crap. It's just as bad in the end.

webmdave said...

Go blow the homeless.

webmdave said...

Mate, this site should not be called ex Christian. It should be called never was a Christian. Hateful and spiteful crap that will not stand up to the truth. The Kingdom of God continues to grow in spite of the best efforts of haters. All your efforts will come to nothing and my suggestion to you is to find something useful to do with your time.

Blessing

webmdave said...

The 'ritual' of going thru all the motions of smoking were very helpful. Using the hands is a big part of the smoking habit. I did not deny myself- I yielded to the habit in everything but the ACTUAL cigarette.I had plastic cigarettes all over the house & in my pocket.Each one had a tiny wad of cotton, & a few pinholes. It was necessary to approximate the same resistance to airflow as the cigarette. Each sloow inhale was about the same as an actual puff. Each exhale ditto. Three puffs & I laid it down until the next 'urge'. Early on I did this at least 100 times a day. Very gradually the number of times daily diminished. But I still kept the plastic ones around for a looong time. Hell, there are still a couple around here, but I rarely use them. "yielding" to the habit made it much easier than the usual "cold turkey". I would have "bought the farm" years ago from lung cancer with my three & a half pack a day habit.

webmdave said...

GRRR! Oh if that worked... Then again, churches would be getting rich off of THEIR quit smoking program.

No, I truly believe it is within us to do these things for ourselves. We just have to find what works for us. The human mind can be a very powerful thing, with the right tools and knowledge that is.

webmdave said...

I try to be, esp in this day and age. I think a lot of it is guilt and shame though.

webmdave said...

Yes, but it isn't easy at all to silence all the thoughts. I drove me ex-husbands crazy, both of whom said, "You think too much".

webmdave said...

Mriana,

You just need to pray about your habit. Jesus will set you free!!!

HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA

Sorry, I couln't resist.

XPD

webmdave said...

You are a very considerate smoker.

webmdave said...

I've never smoked that much, but what worked for me until the stress levels got extremely bad was self-pep talks, esp while I was in the shower, as well as the step 3 (last one) patch. When the stress was beyond belief, I, admittedly, didn't give a damn anymore and stop doing the pep talks. That actually lasted about 2 weeks, the longest I have ever gone.

webmdave said...

Love that idea. A great many years ago, I would insert FFRF non-tracts into religious books in the library. Then I realised that no one read them any more than they read the bibles in the Doctors waiting rooms.

webmdave said...

Mriana, " I do visual imagery while listening to soothing music while lying down. "
That's very close to meditation, so I'm sure that you are deriving great benefits from that ! : )
P.S. ....sometimes I have a really hard time getting myself to rid myself of "monkey mind", guess it just depends on how crazy a day I'd had. but I believe that the calmer we can get our mind & body, the better it is for our health !

webmdave said...

It worked for me. Ritualising the deep breathing & slow exhaling, as with a cigarette, while I psyched myself was a huge help in busting my three & a half pack a day habit. I always kept a carton in my car & another in the house, I smoked almost continuously all the time. I put out the last one as I climbed into bed. AM, the first thing I did on waking was to light up.I was 'yielding 'to the temptation with my ritual. Huge help in stopping. Good luck.

webmdave said...

Yes, I saw it, Summerbreeze, in my email box.

Yes, my son is a Buddhist and does meditate.

I do visual imagery while listening to soothing music while lying down.

Be that as it may, my son has tried to get me to meditate. I cannot relax under such conditions. Hypnosis hasn't even worked on me either- that is, I cannot be hypnotized because I cannot relax while someone else is in the room. I have to be by myself in the room or nothing helps.

Still, such techniques, even while by myself, have not worked to help me quit smoking either. I do not associate the two together. Go ahead and say it if you want. I really don't care.

For me, relaxation is a matter of quieting my mind and trust me, there is a lot going on in there. I could not begin to tell you. lol

A therapist I had in the past stated I am hyper-vigilant due to my childhood experiences. She too tried relaxation techniques while I was in her office. I just could not do it. Another truly believed she could hypnotize me. She FAILED.

webmdave said...

glebealyth,

Thanks for the tip. Yes, I know what you mean. I had some Talisker that went down a mite too easy over the holidays. I did sleep well that night...

Scotch is an acquired taste. I winced the first time I tried it. Now, life seems much more tolerable knowing there is a dram of good Scotch in the larder.

Cheers!

webmdave said...

Just reposted 1st part and posted remainder labeled as 2nd part.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100206165423AAktdM4

Hope it works. Would like to hear your reaction to the responses you get to your article.

webmdave said...

As Mriana & I were going back & forth up ^ there about smoking, I happened to think about poor Dana Reeve. Here she was, a total non-smoker, who sang in night-clubs before marrying Christopher Reeve.
Then " The Good Lard " rewards her for taking care of Chris for over 10 years, and she always remained true to him. She was a good person with a helpful heart, then BAM ! so so undeserved. Reason #1,000,000,000 that I don't believe in a loving & fair "God"......feels good to vent.

webmdave said...

Hi Mriana.....since this is at the end of a looong line, I hope you see it. I used the word meditation, not medication ( VERY easy for the eye to gloss over that, the 2 words being so close together ). Your oldest son is a Buddhist, does he meditate? It's very relaxing, and calming.

webmdave said...

Searching, thanks for posting that, but it appears to be cut off in mid paragraph, and the last 5 paragraphs are missing.

webmdave said...

I only smoke in the privacy of my home. I am uncomfortable to smoke in public, even outside, unless I am with other smokers. I won't even smoke outside of a non-smoker's home- I leave my cigs at home until I know if they are smokers or non-smokers. If non-smokers, I never bring them with me when I visit them. Weirdly, I even ask people who come to MY home to visit, if they mind if I smoke. Go figure.

webmdave said...

Sounds like you are a very determined person. Glad you kicked the habit!

webmdave said...

The breathing, even with a straw, doesn't work for me. There is no substance to it. However, I'll have to try the cotton ball idea. In all honesty though, I do not think it has anything to do with the strength of desire to quit. Remember there is an addiction component to it and if you smoke menthol, there is supposedly a double addiction, which I think is true, because a plain cig doesn't quite get it for me.

webmdave said...

Yes. I just noticed that a bit ago. I will try and post the remainder. It was all present when I reviewed it immediately before posting. There must be a volume limit.

webmdave said...

Summerbreeze, speaking of medication, many of the stop smoking products I can't take. I can't take Wellbutrin, nicotine replacement produces have to be greatly reduced or taken at a much lower dose for me, Chantix also made me sick... The list goes one, even into meds like Wellbutrin.

I SERIOUSLY do not recommend Chantix, but not everyone has a bad reaction to it.

webmdave said...

I hope you all really want to quit. And I wish you good luck with it.

My Dad--a non-smoker--died of lung cancer, quite possibly from working with a chain smoker in a small space for over 30 years. (The chain smoker died a long, agonizing death from emphysema.)

I have tracheal malacia and a grandbaby who has life-threatening bouts of asthma. I am just glad that Illinois finally got its act together and made smoking illegal in public places. Other people's smoke very much affected my freedom of movement in the community. I can even go out to eat now.

I do hope all you smokers can get free of it. Your children would probably like to have you around for awhile longer. I know I would give just about anything to have had my dad around longer. And I couldn't even tell the chain smoker what I thought about him killing my Dad because his smoking had killed him years before.

webmdave said...

Smokers who'd like to quit: I was a three & a half pack a day man for MANY years. I quit cold turkey 27 years ago. Here's how : Every time I had the urge, I took three breaths/drags-- very slowly. While thinking : this is clean air. The urge goes away--briefly. 3 more slow deep breaths. Continue this each time you get the urge. Early on, it will be every few minutes. Each day gets easier. I also cut up thick milkshake straws to cigarette length. Went thru all the motions of smoking with them. Put small amt of cotton in them to restrict air flow to about same as cigarette. Use as needed. ( I even inadvertently lit a few of them. Taste terrible. This makes it even easier to not light up a real cigarette. Put the money you save aside, that you WOULD HAVE spent on cigarettes. Did I mention exhale very slowly as you would a cigarette. You are psycheing yourself in doing this. Hey, it worked for me. If I could do it, so can you. This only works if you REALLY WANT to quit.

webmdave said...

Thackerie, You probably won't see this, but I'm very sorry about your brother. I've experienced this exact same thing in my family. Last year, my cousin's wife died at age 53 from lung cancer...She'd smoked since a teenager. Since the effects of smoking seem to "relax" the smoker, wouldn't meditation accomplish the same results....sans ciggarettes ? Just something to ponder......I use meditation to calm myself, because sometimes I get nervous, and it really helps me.
It's true that we all have our own self-induced poisons......mine is drinking just too damn much
Coca-Cola...I'm keeping that company in the black I think.

webmdave said...

Slight correction:

I have tried the 10-year Talisker Scotch. The 12-year is even harder to get and more expensive.

webmdave said...

Place it under Sci-Fi or even mythology. lol

webmdave said...

Oh WizenedSage,

I've always thought that the Religious Fiction Section at Barnes & Noble was redundant labeling.

You have managed to encapsulate the direction of argument that ought to lead any honest, fearless person to the conclusion that god(s) is (are) fictional constructions of the human imagination or that we simply haven't enough evidence to make a definitive factual statement about the "god meme".

Unfortunately, for our species, honesty and fearlessness in matters of religion are rare qualities.

When people, of any culture, believe in so-called "holy scriptures" they are following the ideas and practices of their culture's mental habits. Just as the Jews mutilate their newborn sons' sex organ and the Muslims do the same to their sons and daughters, religious people believe and practice weird shit because they are too afraid to question the rationale, the purpose and the benefit of such actions.

As the late George Carlin said, "We just made it up!".

webmdave said...

Good points.

It make sense that in a time of widespread ignorance, superstition and illiteracy, more of the population could be persuaded to believe tall tales. Fast forward to the U.S. today, the 21st century, where radio waves heat our food, aircraft carry passengers across our continent in mere hours, information comes and leaves our homes at light-speed, and much of the population has an education that exceeds the scholars of old. Belief in biblical tall tales, in this age of scientific and historical knowledge, requires a suspension of reason, willful ignorance, good old fashioned denial, or some combination thereof.

webmdave said...

XPDan,

You sound like a connoisseur of stogies. I imagine you know more about them than I do. I have tried a wide variety of cigars, but I am most fond of the Por LarraƱaga brand. Por LarraƱaga is known for having a distinctly sweet taste.

http://www.cigarone.com/cuban-cigars/cigars-brand.php?idbrand=44

Single Malt Scotch whisky is my adult drink of choice. Talisker is my favorite. I have only tried the 12-year. It can be fairly hard to find, and it ain't cheap. I don't buy it often. It is hearty with a strong presence of peat. It is not for everyone... but I enjoy it. It'll put hair on your chest.

Stogies and Scotch are hard to beat. A good cigar is a smoke...

webmdave said...

88 reasons Jesus will come back in '88

When that prediction didn't pan out, the author had the audacity to write a sequel -- The Final Shout: Rapture Report 1989 (which covered predictions thru 1993).

*rolling eyes*

webmdave said...

It'd sure be nice if these articles had a "Printable Version" option. I started to print this up and my first page said "Page 15 of 15"!

webmdave said...

Ted,

I don't recall exactly what it was in the photo. My all time favorite is Hoyo de Monterey Churchills - heco en Habano 1992. They rated a 98 in Cigar Aficionado that year. Pure Cuban, boot-legged across the Canadian border by a good friend of mine. Of course they are long gone....sigh.....

I prefer Partagas #10 (Dominican & legal) when smoking a high quality stogie, but I've been known to enjoy a good ol' Garcia y Vega (Tubo) when I'm broke! (:P

If I'm not mistaken, I think webmdave is a stogie man.

XPD (P.S. what is your favorite adult beverage to go along with your P. L.?)

webmdave said...

Thanks, Parse.

Truth is, I did consider the feelings of the workers before I began my prank several years ago. I figured the fundies deserved a little Old Testament Eye-For-An-Eye treatment. I also thought (or justified in my own mind) that the rare non-fundy who might have to clean up after me would probably get a chuckle. I know I would if I were in their shoes. But then, I've been accused more than once of having a wicked, devilish sense of humor.

Yes, indeed! I will also use Historical Fiction as another destination. Thanks for the idea.

webmdave said...

You have a valid point there, Buffettphan. I'm not in the heart of fundyopolis, so for now the bookstores are relatively safe havens. (After all, when the only book you need is the Bible, you tend to minimize the contact you have with others - especially those that would challenge your faith). As such, I mentally filed the workers as innocent bystanders, rather than as the target of the jape.

I officially rescind my objections to your shenanigans. Carry on! (as if you needed my permission to do that. *grin*)

(May I also recommend the use of Historical Fiction as a destination?)

webmdave said...

Well Parse, you're entitled to your opinion. However, where I live in fundyland, I wouldn't call the staff uninvolved third parties. For every "Have a blessed day" or "God bless you" a salesperson gives me, I move one bible to the religious fiction section -- a few feet over.

I like your idea also.

webmdave said...

EXCELLENT!!!

Two points if I may:
1. I have heard from the pulpit multiple times, “We can know by faith”. WHAT!!!? AM I MISSING SOMETHING? Aren't knowing and faith mutually exclusive concepts!!!? I know I’m not Mensa material but come on!!! The unilateral intellectual aggression that is xtianity nauseates me!!! Try some self-reflection and introspection and get back to me xtianity!!!

2. Re the seeds/fowl thing. ““The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest of shrubs and becomes a tree (22 Matthew 13:31-32).” We now know many other plant’s seeds, such as orchids, are smaller, and shrubs do not grow into trees. They also wrote about 4-legged fowl (there never were any)”

Will the religious mind use evolution on the doubter to explain the change from ancient times to current times? If so, how does one counter such a response from the religious mind without also arguing the religious mind must now accept all evolution means/implies because it is highly doubtful the religious mind will accept all of evolution (if that all makes sense…sorry in a hurry before my internet connectivity goes away)? Thanks.

webmdave said...

You've struck upon the key that opens the box. It is what I say all the time. Go to the source. If the source is absurd, the rest must be. In the vernacular of an ex-president: "It's The Bible, Stupid."

Isn't it interesting how Christian Fiction has really taken off? And how gullible Christians are about it? Thirty years ago the rage was "prophecy," fiction dressed up in a religious skirt. When all those prophecies did not come true (we still live on the not-so-late-or-great planet earth) those prophets "came out" as fiction writers. Duh.

It is interesting I can recall several verses that actually apply:

"believing themselves to be wise they became fools...."
"Once I was a child talked like one but now I am not a child and I don't act like one (paraphrase)...."
"...know the truth and it will set you free...."

Even lines from the Great Fiction can reach up and bite people in the arse if they're not careful.

webmdave said...

I hear ya. That's all we can do - plant that seed.

webmdave said...

Excellent argument, but I've used the same one with Christians and it never works. All I can hope is that I planted a seed of doubt. If they ever decide to use their heads, they will see the truth.

webmdave said...

Spot on, Pious Ted. A thousand 'misses' & they keep on with new dire warnings.

webmdave said...

WizenedSage...I'm glad that you addressed this to a christian....I hope that many of them will read it. What are the chances of having this post, in its entirety, send to christian web-sites and having it shown ? ....Ha! and they say that WE are the narrow-minded ones. Thanks Wiz

webmdave said...

I posted the below as a "Quick comment" here on the ExChristian site for those that might be interested but I do not see where it has yet appeared here on the ExChristian site. Any thoughts how I can confirm it is posted on ExChristian .net?:


I have never posted here before so I hope I am doing it correctly.

With permission from WizenedSage, I posted his/her recent "Faith in Hearsay" article on Yahoo Religion & Spirituality in order to get responses from the xtian community.

I believe the link below should take you there. Interestingly, although not unexpectedly, the 1st response begins with "I didn't bother reading the whole thing because, from the outset, your thesis is wrong." Why am I not surprised?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AgyhfV3VK9XdKKlwGS_LmwEazKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20100206103040AAmTP8G

webmdave said...

PT,

I recommend the 10 year old Balvenie. Really tasty, but goes down just a mite too easy, if you know what I mean.
My wife bought me a bottle of 30 year old as couple of years ago, WONDERFUL.

The Jura is worth a try, as well.

webmdave said...

"Thanks for commenting to me !"

It is MY pleasure. This site is a life line/saver for me.

webmdave said...

"If you would like to post this essay, you certainly have my "blessing.""

I would be honored!!! I will begin to attempt posting it on Yahoo Religion & Spirituality now and post the link here.

webmdave said...

Great posting ! Of course we're the Amen Corner. What a pity that every Xian can't/won't read it & ponder. The churches would empty faster than a fire.