Longtime director of Apologetics Press fired
By Bobby Ross Jr.
The Christian Chronicle
June 21, 2005
Apologetics Press, the Montgomery, Ala.-based church organization that has waged a quarter-century battle against atheism and the theory of evolution, has fired its longtime director, Bert Thompson, amid allegations of sexual misconduct. Interim executive director Dave Miller said the organization, which has a $1 million annual budget, intends to proceed “undaunted by Satan.”
“We are deeply grateful for Dr. Thompson's longstanding warfare against the sinister doctrine of evolution, with his eloquent affirmation of the biblical account of Creation,” Miller wrote in an open letter to Apologetics Press supporters.
“Truth is truth, even if those who defend it eventually succumb to personal sin,” Miller wrote.
In a separate letter, elders of the Palm Beach Lakes church, West Palm Beach, Fla., urged friends of Apologetics Press to stand behind the organization. That congregation had overseen Thompson and Apologetics Press for 18 months and will maintain an advisory role.
“We implore you to increase your financial and moral support to A.P. for the next two years then make an evaluation,” the elders wrote. “We are confident the Lord will bring unparalleled results through the new leadership, its renewed focus and its amazingly talented staff.”
The board of Apologetics Press fired Thompson, 55, its executive director for 26 years, at a May 24 meeting.
Among those who attended were his wife, Rhonda, elders from supporting congregations and his minister, Frank Chesser of the Panama Street church, Montgomery. Chesser declined an interview request.
Miller said the confrontation followed an investigation by Apologetics Press staff members and other interested individuals.
“We didn't lay anything out on the table,” Miller said, referring to specific instances of wrongdoing. “We just said, 'We now have knowledge of multiple incidents involving a number of individuals.'”
At that time, Thompson confessed his sins and asked for forgiveness, according to those present. At his church the next night, he responded to the invitation and again asked for forgiveness.
CHURCH MEMBER SAYS HE'S A VICTIM
A 36-year-old church member, who grew up in Alabama, said he was among alleged victims who gave statements to the investigators.
The member, who preferred not to be identified publicly, told the Chronicle that Thompson started sending him cards and letters when he was 13, then pressed him to go out to dinner after he turned 16, the legal age of consent in Alabama.
At the meal, Thompson invited the teen to go home with him and watch a movie, the member said. Thompson's family was not home, and the member said Thompson lured him to a bedroom, disrobed and touched him inappropriately. The member said he later met two other young men who told of similar experiences with Thompson.
The member voiced concerns that church leaders who gathered evidence against Thompson wanted to keep the accusations quiet.
He said one minister told him, “He didn't molest Methodists. He didn't molest Baptists. He didn't molest atheists. And we intend to keep it in the church.” (The minister who allegedly made that statement declined to comment.)
But the member said the accusations needed to be made public to allow more victims to come forward.
“We don't know if he just molested church of Christ kids,” he said. “This guy was all over the country.”
In an “Open Letter to the Brotherhood” dated May 25, Thompson wrote, “For some time now, I have been struggling with some personal sins in my life, and as a result it was obvious ... that I no longer was the best choice to lead the work forward for the next quarter of a century.”
When contacted by the Chronicle about the firing, Thompson referred all questions to Apologetics Press. “That's something between them and me, and it's a very personal matter,” he said, and declined to comment further.
Rhonda Thompson, his wife of 33 years, said the couple is divorcing. “You can safely say we're devastated,” she said.
But she said she remains supportive of Apologetics Press, describing its work as “vital to the church, and I beg the brotherhood to continue to support it.”
GRAND JURY DECLINED TO BRING CHARGES
The recently uncovered accusations were not the first. A year and a half ago, no charges were brought after a grand jury in Montgomery County heard accusations of inappropriate sexual contact by Thompson with a 17-year-old boy, Miller said.
While that case ended with no legal action, the Eastern Meadows church, Montgomery, withdrew as the overseeing congregation for Apologetics Press. The Thompsons, the Millers and three other families associated with Apologetics Press left that congregation, Miller said.
But the Eastern Meadows church continued to contribute “a fairly large sum of money” to Apologetics Press, Miller said.
“We had information about the allegations,” said Ted Norton, an Eastern Meadows elder. “We were not in a position to know whether they were true or not. We as individuals had our own personal feelings, but we did not have evidence so to speak.”
To many, Thompson was the face of Apologetics Press - the outspoken creationist who delighted in sparring with those with whom he disagreed.
The Abilene Christian University alumnus made national news in the mid-1980s when he accused ACU biology professors of teaching evolution and making light of the Genesis account of creation.
The professors were exonerated after a three-month investigation by ACU.
Another focus of Thompson's books and attacks was John Clayton, a Dowagiac, Mich., church member and former atheist who leads “Does God Exist?” seminars across the nation.
CLAYTON SAYS CRISIS CALLS FOR PRAYER
Thompson took issue with Clayton's views on creation and accused him of advocating “theistic evolution,” since Clayton suggests the earth cannot dogmatically be said to be 6,000 years old.
“I would have nothing to say about it - except that we need to pray for everyone involved, especially the many people who put their faith in Bert and will be seriously damaged by what has happened,” Clayton said of Thompson's firing.
Last year, Apologetics Press published two articles making a biblical case against homosexuality and listing the authors as Brad Harrub, Thompson and Miller. Both articles remain on the organization's Web site, but references to Thompson as an author have been deleted.
“I think we just decided to remove those because of the hypocrisy,” said Miller, indicating that he and Harrub had written 98 percent of the original articles.
Phil Sanders, minister of the Concord Road church, Brentwood, Tenn., said Thompson's work blessed thousands.
“I will still place a measure of confidence in what he has written,” Sanders said, “but I am deeply disappointed that he has permitted this sin to enslave him.”
The Christian Chronicle
June 21, 2005
Apologetics Press, the Montgomery, Ala.-based church organization that has waged a quarter-century battle against atheism and the theory of evolution, has fired its longtime director, Bert Thompson, amid allegations of sexual misconduct. Interim executive director Dave Miller said the organization, which has a $1 million annual budget, intends to proceed “undaunted by Satan.”
“We are deeply grateful for Dr. Thompson's longstanding warfare against the sinister doctrine of evolution, with his eloquent affirmation of the biblical account of Creation,” Miller wrote in an open letter to Apologetics Press supporters.
“Truth is truth, even if those who defend it eventually succumb to personal sin,” Miller wrote.
In a separate letter, elders of the Palm Beach Lakes church, West Palm Beach, Fla., urged friends of Apologetics Press to stand behind the organization. That congregation had overseen Thompson and Apologetics Press for 18 months and will maintain an advisory role.
“We implore you to increase your financial and moral support to A.P. for the next two years then make an evaluation,” the elders wrote. “We are confident the Lord will bring unparalleled results through the new leadership, its renewed focus and its amazingly talented staff.”
The board of Apologetics Press fired Thompson, 55, its executive director for 26 years, at a May 24 meeting.
Among those who attended were his wife, Rhonda, elders from supporting congregations and his minister, Frank Chesser of the Panama Street church, Montgomery. Chesser declined an interview request.
Miller said the confrontation followed an investigation by Apologetics Press staff members and other interested individuals.
“We didn't lay anything out on the table,” Miller said, referring to specific instances of wrongdoing. “We just said, 'We now have knowledge of multiple incidents involving a number of individuals.'”
At that time, Thompson confessed his sins and asked for forgiveness, according to those present. At his church the next night, he responded to the invitation and again asked for forgiveness.
CHURCH MEMBER SAYS HE'S A VICTIM
A 36-year-old church member, who grew up in Alabama, said he was among alleged victims who gave statements to the investigators.
The member, who preferred not to be identified publicly, told the Chronicle that Thompson started sending him cards and letters when he was 13, then pressed him to go out to dinner after he turned 16, the legal age of consent in Alabama.
At the meal, Thompson invited the teen to go home with him and watch a movie, the member said. Thompson's family was not home, and the member said Thompson lured him to a bedroom, disrobed and touched him inappropriately. The member said he later met two other young men who told of similar experiences with Thompson.
The member voiced concerns that church leaders who gathered evidence against Thompson wanted to keep the accusations quiet.
He said one minister told him, “He didn't molest Methodists. He didn't molest Baptists. He didn't molest atheists. And we intend to keep it in the church.” (The minister who allegedly made that statement declined to comment.)
But the member said the accusations needed to be made public to allow more victims to come forward.
“We don't know if he just molested church of Christ kids,” he said. “This guy was all over the country.”
In an “Open Letter to the Brotherhood” dated May 25, Thompson wrote, “For some time now, I have been struggling with some personal sins in my life, and as a result it was obvious ... that I no longer was the best choice to lead the work forward for the next quarter of a century.”
When contacted by the Chronicle about the firing, Thompson referred all questions to Apologetics Press. “That's something between them and me, and it's a very personal matter,” he said, and declined to comment further.
Rhonda Thompson, his wife of 33 years, said the couple is divorcing. “You can safely say we're devastated,” she said.
But she said she remains supportive of Apologetics Press, describing its work as “vital to the church, and I beg the brotherhood to continue to support it.”
GRAND JURY DECLINED TO BRING CHARGES
The recently uncovered accusations were not the first. A year and a half ago, no charges were brought after a grand jury in Montgomery County heard accusations of inappropriate sexual contact by Thompson with a 17-year-old boy, Miller said.
While that case ended with no legal action, the Eastern Meadows church, Montgomery, withdrew as the overseeing congregation for Apologetics Press. The Thompsons, the Millers and three other families associated with Apologetics Press left that congregation, Miller said.
But the Eastern Meadows church continued to contribute “a fairly large sum of money” to Apologetics Press, Miller said.
“We had information about the allegations,” said Ted Norton, an Eastern Meadows elder. “We were not in a position to know whether they were true or not. We as individuals had our own personal feelings, but we did not have evidence so to speak.”
To many, Thompson was the face of Apologetics Press - the outspoken creationist who delighted in sparring with those with whom he disagreed.
The Abilene Christian University alumnus made national news in the mid-1980s when he accused ACU biology professors of teaching evolution and making light of the Genesis account of creation.
The professors were exonerated after a three-month investigation by ACU.
Another focus of Thompson's books and attacks was John Clayton, a Dowagiac, Mich., church member and former atheist who leads “Does God Exist?” seminars across the nation.
CLAYTON SAYS CRISIS CALLS FOR PRAYER
Thompson took issue with Clayton's views on creation and accused him of advocating “theistic evolution,” since Clayton suggests the earth cannot dogmatically be said to be 6,000 years old.
“I would have nothing to say about it - except that we need to pray for everyone involved, especially the many people who put their faith in Bert and will be seriously damaged by what has happened,” Clayton said of Thompson's firing.
Last year, Apologetics Press published two articles making a biblical case against homosexuality and listing the authors as Brad Harrub, Thompson and Miller. Both articles remain on the organization's Web site, but references to Thompson as an author have been deleted.
“I think we just decided to remove those because of the hypocrisy,” said Miller, indicating that he and Harrub had written 98 percent of the original articles.
Phil Sanders, minister of the Concord Road church, Brentwood, Tenn., said Thompson's work blessed thousands.
“I will still place a measure of confidence in what he has written,” Sanders said, “but I am deeply disappointed that he has permitted this sin to enslave him.”
Comments
AH
Texas
How does a church fire/remove any member for a sinful act? They believe "everyone" is a sinner..., what makes one sinner worse than the next... isn't the task of looking into someones' heart/soul the Christian god's job...
Its obvious, that the christian dogma is so fallacious, that any christian can do anything to "anyone else" and be forgiven, but as soon as they commit some sin against their "own" religious people, then it becomes unpardonable, and requiring justice... and the hypocrisy rolls on...
The chronicle should not have posted an article as such. True or not, it has done much harm to the church of Christ. There will a lot of people to answer for this at the judgement. Hope ya'll are happy for the damage caused. You said you were Christians?
The "damage" was caused by Thompson. He was the pervert looking to have sex with kids, all the while leading the typical Christian life.
So who do you suggest will "answer for this?" As expected, you are standing up for the pervert who committed the crime. If there were a god, it would be punishing the pervert right? {snicker)
Christians are just amazing to me.
Onanite
Christian lore has been passed to recognize "all" mankind as "sinful" at "birth", from the "sin" of adam... there is no "hierarchy" of "sinful" acts, save one...
Mark 3:22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebub! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.” (28) So Jesus . . . spoke to them . . . (28) I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. (29) But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.” (30) He said this because they were saying, “He has an evil spirit.”
Therefore, committing murder is no more sinful than stealing, in regard to the "act" of "sin", as a matter of fact... christianity teaches that the only way to save a persons' "sinful" nature, is to accept jesus, but that... doesn't remove a persons' "sinful" nature... even after baptism, and all of the hallelujah's, its still "expected" that the "saved" will continue to commit sinful acts...
Since that is the christian belief, then... and we are not "capable" of preventing ourselves from committin "sinful" acts... furthermore, if a Christian were to ignore their belief system, and state that we should be held accountable, even though we have no "ability" to prevent our "sinful" natures, there is no "measure" for "sinful" acts, i.e., murder is sin, and so is stealing, however, there is nothing that states one is worse than the other, and therefore, punishment logically has to be the same for both sins...
Now, I find it hypocritical that a church, who founds its philosophy on biblical scripture, punishes a member of their own church, when at the same time, they state that we are all "sinful" and unable to stop "sinning"... why not just get up in the pulpit every sunday and start handing out punishment equally to the entire congregation, as they would all probably admit to committing to at least "one" sin for the week, and sin is all the same, and so should punishment... remember, in a church, they are "all" saved because they "all" were saved through jesus... no more, no less should be the punishment for all sins committed... if the church punishes one member, they need to punish "all" members... equally...
What this church is engagin in, is an act of "business" law, not spiritual law, however, in theory, these business people, in charge of the church, are theoretically spiritual also... it appears, business takes precedence over spirituality, in that church... which, is hypocritical, and actions speak louder than words...
Business and spirituality don't mix, and is why U.S. law, states that there will not be a state sponsored spiritual movement... However, such is the hypocrisy of churches, as "every" one I attended, had board members, and was run like a business... to the point, that the hiring of clergy was done through an interview process, where degrees and salaries were discussed, etc... If you would like more cases of hypocrisy, let me know, I have plenty of examples... Does anyone know a church that doesn't conduct itself as a business?
Another case of only when caught am I ready to repent.
Are we to blink when it is a member of the church that is guilty of this horrendous crime? I guess we can't slam Sodom and Gomorrah when the men were demanding for the men to come out to the street, can we?
My brother-in-law is one of his victims. I never knew this until this story broke and my mother-in-law told me about it. Mr. Thompson has a severe problem and needs to not EVER be around children again.
Also, there is a difference between occassional sin because you are weak and tempted and what he did, actively persuing sex with boys and seducing them in a predatory fashion.
Yes, only members of the exclusive "Club Christo" are forgiven by it's Chairman of the Board, Jebus---non-members can't repent or pay dues, because, well, because they're not members.
....::dumdee dumdee dumm::...
HEY!... wait just a god-danged minute!...I can't become a member unless I truly repent, but I can't truly repent because I'm not a member! D'oh!....who made up this bullshit initiation, anyway? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep your membership..... eternal shuffleboard sounds like a blast! lol
The chronicle should not have posted an article as such. True or not, it has done much harm to the church of Christ. There will a lot of people to answer for this at the judgement. Hope ya'll are happy for the damage caused. You said you were Christians?
AH
Texas
Anonymous said...
That's where your post starts and ends.
I personally know victims from this case and to a man all of them tell the same story. They all met this person in their early teens and they have all known since their 16th birthday (AL. Victims) what this man is all about. That's just the tip of the iceberg as far as what other things they have in common. There is evidence that shows he invested years in calculating his moves. This behavior amounts to nothing more than premeditated terror by someone you can supposedly trust. This man scientifically stalked children from an early age, cultivated relationships with their families and betrayed them in front of everyone's face. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Slandering his victims and denying the accusations with indignation to the bitter end. God can choose to forgive him but his consequences will be continued to be bore on this earth.
Robert
What Bert did was wrong, but he has repented. The only reason that so many people are still upset with it is because it was homosexual acts. In God's eyes homosexuality is no different than adultery.
Since Bert has repented, and since his wife has forgiven him, and since God has forgiven him, what right do any of us have to hold this against him. None of us are perfect, and we are all guilty of things that we are ashamed of.
Did Bert seriously damage his influence in the church? Yes, he did! That is something that he will have to live with for the rest of his life, but that doesn't mean that he cannot be useful in the kingdom. Many a preacher has committed adultery, even some of them with girls just above the age of consent, but they are still preaching. The only reason that everyone is upset with Bert is because his acts were homosexual. Where in the Bible does it say that we are to forgive people unless the acts that they commit are homosexual?
Bert, this is Jerry McDonald. If you do read this I want to encourage you to continue living for the Lord. I forgive you as God has forgiven you. You are still needed in the church. We still need your knowledge in the fight against Atheism.
In Christ's Service,
Jerry D. McDonald
Jerry, do you understand the difference between information and knowledge? To have knowledge, means to "know" something, to communicate what you think you "know", requires you to be capable of directing your communication towards; person, place or thing/thing that can be verified/validated, and placed into context within Reality.
I'm quite confident the proper context of your communication will not fall under the category of knowledge, but under information.
Knowledge beats information in my book, but perhaps not in your book.
However, if you are ever able to elevate information to knowledge, then come back and discuss this knowledge, I really do enjoy expanding my understanding of Nature.
By the way, please for the sake of sanity, don't suggest your "knowledge" of information, is actually "information" verified as knowledge... in the context of you "knowing" information; you are suggesting you "know" the "context" of your communication to be that of "information" and information only.
Jerry D. McDonald: "I forgive you as God has forgiven you."
Do you talk with that word often?
"Since Bert has repented, and since his wife has forgiven him, and since God has forgiven him, what right do any of us have to hold this against him.......I forgive you as God has forgiven you."
----
Jerry,
You do realize that you are posting on a Ex-Christian website, right Jerry?
Surely you don't expect the members here to forgive Bert, just because his wife eventually forgave him (or so she might lead the public to believe) ?
Who is she to any of us Jerry?
Naturally, you claim YOUR god "forgave him", after he "repented'" his sins to this god.
I'm sure your god forgiving him would have 'plenty' of leverage to us Ex-Christains here, in persuading us to also forgive his sins.
ARE YOU KIDDING US JERRY !!!
I'm willing to go out on a limb and say, that the way most of us here would react to your view, goes something like this:
1. Your buddy Bert is most likely only sorry that he got caught red-handed, not for the crime he committed.
2. This was not a one-time instance, as the chronicle reports, so you can't claim he made just one 'mistake'. It sure wasn't a matter of him losing-his-head while drunk one evening etc..
3. What weight does his wife forgiving him, offer to us or the public? If there was a chance of anyone forgiving him, wouldn't it be his own wife. This is just about as persuasive to us as saying his mother forgave him.
4. Now Jerry, realize that you have an audience of Ex-Christians here that no longer believe in your invisible bible god. It's very simple Jerry, he doesn't exists to us, so what possible influence do you think your claim that your bible god "forgave him", would have for us?
He might as well have asked the planet Uranus to forgive his sins. It means the same thing
to us Jerry!!
Now I do not know where this case has gone since this report of June 21st 2005, but why does your pleading on this site give me a hunch that you are trying to drum up public support for this 'sinner' buddy of yours, hmmm?
Trust me Jerry, you won't find much sympathy for your friend Bert here. If you had taken the time to read through the comments here about the many other 'sinful' leaders of your realm who made the crime news, you would have realized your pleadings to us will get you no where.
Now Jerry, about your signature here....."In Christ's Service"
I take this to mean that you work directly for this Christ of yours?
Does he pay you with 'in god we trust' CASH each week for your services to him?
Is this cash brought to you directly from heaven, via some winged angel, which would be evidence that you really do work for this heavenly Christ?
Does Jesus keep a 10% tithe for himself, from your weekly pay?
Did you perhaps take up a collection and give it to god to inspire him to forgive your friend Bert?
Did he give you a receipt for; forgiveness-services-rendered?
(I wonder if it's tax-deductible)
Jerry, if your god is so powerful and is indeed real, why didn't he work a miracle and save your friend from our human justice system and the public outcry, the very second your friend was forgiven by your god.
Could it be there is no god to forgive your buddy, no god to save him from the law or the public eye.
We already established on this site that god doesn't heal his own leaders, so what makes you think he would protect his sinning leaders like Bert, from the wrath of our legal system.
Instead of trying to drum up support on this site, why not just get down on your god-fearing knees and beg your god to save your friend instead. I'm sure he'll oblige you.....or maybe not.
AtheistToothFairy
those of you without sin can cast the first stone...
This man made a mistake, but how dare you condemn him. He messed up, but don't we all...and don't you dare attack the church. This is a personal sin, but I am sure that you are perfect in all of your ways...right? (snicker) That's what you did right...
And to Mr. Dave8
this wasn't a church that he was removed from and we aren't saying his sin was worse. It made it look bad in the church so he was removed from a job...not the church!!!!
I have never understood how someone can condemn the church of christ when they don't even know what we stand for. We get the everyone thinks that we are horrible for not participating in isuch actions, but you don't see us going around writing articles about you...and about your indescretions, every "chruch" has its problems and the church of christ is no exception. I just love how people say that it's worse because its a member of the Church...you people really kill me....but I guess that's what happens when you have uninformed people commenting on things that they know nothing of. That's something I am going to change.
Check your facts before you mouth off next time.
Oh and "Boomslang"
watch you mouth...people don't need to read about how unintellegent you are. Anything you said was negated when you cussed...so it really did you no good to post that comment!
"you without sin, cast the first stone"
Jesus said that.
watch [your] mouth...people don't need to read about how unintellegent you are.
Oh?..I'm "unitellegent", am I? lol. I'm curious about something---as an up and coming lawyer, hoo will be ur targit clientel?
UCL Anything you said was negated when you cussed..
Jesus exists, god damn it!!!! There. Officially negated.
UCL: "you without sin, cast the first stone"
Jesus said that.
"Where are you going, you little pig?
'I'm going to the ball to dance a fine jig!'
A jig, little pig!
A pig dance a jig!
Well, I never before saw a pig dance a jig!"
A wise little pig said that.
The Christian Chronicle: "“We don't know if he just molested church of Christ kids,” he said. “This guy was all over the country.”
It appears he was removed from his job, because allegedly his hands were reportedly on the genitalia of believers/Christian little boys... would you like to elaborate, Mr. up and coming lawyer...
In corporate, it's called damage control when people are removed from their position amidst controversy that would hurt an organization's image...
Now, what I can't understand... and really, I'm trying, if you can assist me... is that Bert had charges brought against him... and not be an unbeliever. And, you seem to know you bible quite well, I mean, you did quote on not throwing the first stone, right.
I suppose what I'm confused on, is that in the bible the following suggests that a believer should not take legal matters against another believer, no matter what the case would be - even child molestation... here, tell me what you think...
1 Corinthians:
6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
And, thus, it seems that ye should rather suffer, and take wrong, for all of the righteous reasons...
Does it not also say:
Luke 6:29: "And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also."
Suffering seems to be quite well covered, why would a true believing Christian "ever" turn another believer in Christ into the custody of legal authorities?
I mean, the bible seems to say, you don't take matters before unbelievers, and you accept the suffering from believing brethren... in the case of Bert, it appears, what the believing little boys should have done, was to continue to turn their cheeks... perhaps, a bad choice of words.
UCL, I'll await your reply, I am interested in knowing what the believers of the Church of Christ think about the bible, and how Bert, an obvious believer, was caught with his pants down at the hands of the lord’s sheep. Cast not the first stone? Do tell, who cast the first stone, there UCL...
"...I encourage all Christians to pray for Mr. Thompson that he will have victory over this sin. There is always hope if we turn to God..."
Yeah okay, Andy, whatever.
Man, I'd love to be a fly on the wall for some of the conversations between these pervo-mechanisms and their wives after they get caught but before the shit hammer comes down on them. Xtian wives want security, and their guy has just blown it for them. I'm guessing he was picking up a pretty fair paycheque from his branch office of the Christianity industry, and now he's out. Worse --- she's out. Little foretaste of hell for ol' Bert, living with Mrs. Bert from now on.
Hey, Up 'N' Coming Lawyer, how did you make it through your LSATs? Because, y'know, you can't think.
Those in the CoC have ego problems when it comes to them being the only ones right about anything. Don't believe me, just ask a member.
Mr. Thompson should be hung for what he did. As I've asked numerous times in the past to prove the existence of an afterlife, there's no such place where he's going to be punished. He needs to be punished now while he's living.
In Christ Service (by the way, moron, that means that I am in his service. I think I have dealt with you before. Come on out coward and tell me who you are),
Jerry D. McDonald
Joe, do you believe in abortion?
In Christ's service
Jerry D. McDonald
In Christ's Service
Jerry D. McDonald
And on a personal note, I always thought Ernie was a hoot. Bert, I never liked so much.
Don't post as anonymous -- type in a pseudonym. Posting as "anonymous" makes you look stupid.
Funny. You can masturbate a kid, or fuck him up the ass, or ejaculate into his mouth, or even murder him, and you are forgiven by god and other Christians, because... because you're part of the blood club.
But we former Christians who have recaptured our minds and realize how ridiculously ignorant that type of thinking is, will be condemned to hell for... well, for thinking.
Anonymous, the only measure of a Christian is that he or she says he or she is a Christian. It doesn't matter what lifestyle a person leads, all that matters is that the person claims to have the imaginary magical blood covering their actions.
What a scam.
The "body" of the church, is made up of two people who believe and come together in Christ. Bottom line, his profession was a religious venture, "solely" built on soliciting the "lord's" message.
Some people build cathedrals... others, build printing presses. He was the commercial preacher, his pulpit was the modern printing press, to push his religious belief, and it was "all" organized around the message of the "lord".
Whenever, a group of people come together, to spread the message of the lord, it's a church - if you need the bible verse, I'll pull it up for you.
Federal employees can't openly present their religious views at work - as it brings together "church" and "state".
Yes, his pulpit was snatched away from him - it doesn't matter how you package it, and what words were scrawled on the sign outside of the building that housed his pulpit.
Like all preachers, he thought he was speaking on behalf of the Christian "lord", waging war against the "evil atheist" regime.
Anony: "We are commanded to forgive."
You are commanded by the bible to forgive Christians... but, you are also commanded to kill non-believers, do you hold both passages equally true?
Anony: "If my kid's babysitter molested them I would be expected by God to forgive, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ask that person to babysit again."
The obvious, or not so obvious problem there anony, is that by you waiting for "God" to sort it all out, while you protect "your" child... you are aiding a predator, by not exposing them to the law.
If you want to see how to "hide a predator", I urge you to consider the fine works of the Catholic Church.
Anony: "At no time did I read that the church removed him. It never says that the church punished him."
Preaching/communicating the "word", on behalf of the lord, using the bible... and a printing press - is a religious organization, and the building they sat in was a "church", which was how "I", and every Christian I know have been taught what a "Church" is... unless, you are going to tell me that a church is not the building where two people come together in the service of the lord.
Anony: "The facts are there please don't add to them, it makes you look stupid."
Ah, instead of focusing on the tragedy of "this Christian" leader, and the removal of him from his pulpit, you want to focus on me. Perhaps, you should ponder a little longer, on what religion, church, predator, and your moral obligation to society is, and then come back to make a more salient argument.
Anony: "Also to the other person talking about being a part of the club. Yes if you are a part of the "club" you will be forgiven, and if you are not you will not."
So, if you're in the in-club, you are also part of the child-rape forgiveness club - how convenient.
Anony: "Is that so difficult? You people are not ex-Christians, you never were in the first place."
Of course, you are talking about people you don't know the hearts of, unless you are a God - per your belief system, right.
Anony: "God looks at the hearts of men and if He sees Christ's blood covering them they are saved, if He sees their sins they are not. (period)"
Well, that settles it, you're God, and your statement that none of us were ever a True Christian, therefore, must be true... because if you aren't God... You're statement, is... a lie, and nothing but propaganda.
Oh, I dunno...maybe it's because you current christians seem to be in a modern day twisted crusade.
"If you reject it then thats your personal choice. I choose to believe in God. Thats my personal choice."
True. But it is our personal choice to point out the failings of the christians and the christian faith. It is your personal choice to stick your head in the sand and your fingers in your ears and pretend that everything is gonna be fine, eventually, and it won't require any action on your part to make it so.
"In my opinion, God will judge him."(bold added)
In my opinion, you have no right to expect us to believe that bit of nonsense. It is an excuse used by "noodle armed choir boys" to not have to really do anything you don't feel like doing. It's a copout, plain and simple and deserves no respect by anyone.
Read the site disclaimer and a few of the testimonials and you may get an understanding of where we are coming from and what this sight is for. (Hint: It isn't a place for you to be spouting your opinions on anything that we choose to do.)
Get lost.
This could be viewed as a twisted crusade by some.
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