Penn & Teller Commentary
Who are Penn and Teller?Click here to download Bullshit Bible.
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Click here to download Bullshit Creationism.
Who are Penn and Teller?Click here to download Bullshit Bible.
Note: These are very large .wmv files. If you don't have a broadband connection — forget it.
Click here to download Bullshit Creationism.
Comments
1. The heaven and light were made (vs:1-5).
2. The firmament was constructed and the waters divided (vs:6-8).
3. The waters gathered into seas-- and then dry land, grass, herbs, and fruit trees created (vs:9-13).
4. The sun and moon created and the stars made also (vs:14-17).
5. Fishes, fowls, and great whales created (vs:20- 23).
6. Beasts, cattle, every creeping thing, man and woman created (vs:24-27).
Summary: Heaven and earth were created before the sun; all animals created, and then man and woman (both sexes) were created simultaneously.
Genesis 2 (Yahwist): Order of creation in the second account.
1. The heavens and the earth created (v:4).
2. A mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground (vs:5-6).
3. Man (male only) made out of dust and named Adam (v:7).
4. A garden planted eastward in Eden and man put into it (vs:8-17) .
5. Beasts and fowls created (vs:18-20).
6. Woman created from one of the man's ribs (vs: 21-24).
Summary: The man (male only) was created, then all the plants, beasts, and fowls, and finally the woman.
Conclusion: The two creation accounts are in obvious conflict, and the different names by which God was called in the two accounts indicate separate authorships.
To argue that Jesus can't be dug up, and that proves he is God is ludicrous. If that's all it takes to be God, then there are lots of Gods out there. Most of humanity can't be dug up.
Noah and the Ark? Really? No comment.
Defending the barbarism of God in the Old Testament by citing the barbarism of human beings is assinine. Surely God should be considerably more civilized than mankind, in any age.
Your god is monster.
For a much larger resource for the "literal" and "expansive" contradictions, see...
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm
"somethoughts" (henceforth ST) provided a rambling rebuttal of Pen & Teller's "Bullshit Bible". I'll pick a few gems to respond to; most of it is not worth a reply.
ST: "Penn & Teller make it a point to show how there are people who believe Elvis is still alive,..."
Yes, the point being that people cling to cherished notions despite the lack of evidence, and even in the face of disconfirming evidence. Hence, people's convictions do not in themselves constitute credible evidence.
ST: "Well, men won’t die for a known lie....(Some may object that radical Muslims will die for their faith but they are missing the point: they are dying for something they believe to be true, not that they know is false!)"
No, you are the one who missed that point entirely. Just because someone dies for a belief, it does not mean the belief is true. Your comment about radical Muslims is a non sequitur.
ST: "Remember, the ark was quite large and it had different levels too. 450 feet long by 75 feet wide by 45 feet high is a pretty big boat!"
You assert the truth of this fantastic story based on what? Genesis? An ancient text of unknown origin. Can you please show me the physical evidence of a world-wide deluge that destroyed virtually all life on Earth within the past 10,000 years?
ST: "...Penn & Teller say there is no evidence to show there were any Hebrews in Egypt. Funny, is there any evidence showing that either Penn or Teller ate any food in the month of May in 1983?"
There is nothing fantastic about the claim that Pen & Teller ate food in the month of May, as we have huge amounts of evidence that that is what people do. On the other hand, we have no reason to believe that a huge population could inhabit a region for more than a generation without leaving a trace, so that would qualify as a fantastic claim.
ST: "When humans play God and kill thousands of innocent babies each year by having abortions we call that our “right.” But when God is God, well, we have no toleration for that."
If you are saying that humans can be just as savage as the god portrayed in the Bible, then I would have to agree with you. However, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement of your god, is it? As for your "god makes the rules" rationalization, please tell me how that differs from "Might makes right". Also, please explain how a god can command all inhabitants of a community to be slaughtered, and then be deemed "merciful" and "loving" in any sense that is meaningful to humans.
ST: "Penn & Teller already come with the preconceived idea that miracles aren’t even possible so by default, Jesus must have deceived the people with tricks."
You miss the point again. Why is Jesus reported to have performed so many "tricks" that could have easily been faked? Could he not be a little more original? I'll offer an explanation: Because such things often WERE faked people were already familiar with such feats of "magic". They came to expect them, just as they came to expect that anyone of significance would be born of a human-divine union. Why did Jesus fit all the expectations of the day to become yet another hero figure, with all the standard motifs, and nary anything extra? Could it be that he was largely (if not totally) an invention?
ST: "If you’re going say it was slight of hand, go ahead and raise a 3-day old dead person from the grave or go ahead and give Stevie Wonder his sight."
The evidence supporting these miracles come exclusively from evangelists writing long after the supposed events. Their purpose in writing was to instill belief in the divinity of Jesus in the same manner as other hagiographic writing of the period. Imagine what an evangelist writing about one of today's "faith healers" (who are charlatans) would say 40-or-so years from now. I can think of few lines of evidence weaker than that.
ST: "How does Jesus compare? Well, to make a long story short: numerous eyewitnesses (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, James, Jude . . .) all written within 50 years of his death.... And by the way, why are people, who reject the evidence of Jesus being a miracle worker or even alive, accepting the story of Apollonius?"
You missed the point yet again. The story is of Apollonius is NOT believable, just as the story of Jesus is NOT believable. While there may be more evidence for the latter than the former, it's all extremely dubious nonetheless. There are NO reliable accounts from eyewitnesses; most of the ones you mention do not even claim to be eyewitnesses, and the authorship is not even clear for others.
ST: "Second is death. People don’t die for what they know is a lie....The same is true for the disciples. All but one died a martyr’s death for their faith in the resurrection."
You are assuming that all the disciples were martyred (which is very poorly supported), and furthermore, that their belief in the resurrection was central. The latter is not supported by anything at all aside from today's conception of what they must have believed.
That's all I have time for. Your arguments are a tangle of unsupported or very poorly supported assertions. Outside of the Bible itself, which is filled with midrashic interpolation and tall stories borrowed from more ancient traditions, you have virtually nothing to support your central dogma about Jesus, or anything else for that matter.
Second, Elvis doesn’t impact peoples’ lives the way Jesus does.
Third, Elvis didn't promise an eternal life of shear uninterupted bliss if you listen to his music, nor does Elvis promise to incinerate you don't listen to his music.
..::scratching head::...
Gee, I wonder why Jesus "impacts" so many more lives, than Elvis?
Somethoughts--I'll go out on a limb and say that's why you waste so much time widdling the corners off the square as to force it into the circular hole--your "reward".
Arks; talking snakes; talking vegetation; swimming hammers; unicorns; firmaments......shit, I could rationalize it all too, if the price was right, AND if the price was LEGIT. It's not, though...your Jesus doesn't exist. You are wasting your time using your own, grossly subjective interpretation, to try and sell us on your Jesus myth.
Have you thought about pursuing a lucrative career selling, maybe, used automobiles? Your slick, oily, weasel-worded response to Penn & Teller’s Bullsh*t Bible reminds me of the pitch that snake oil salesmen used to con people out of their money about 130 years ago. You’re good at making BS sound almost respectable!
God supposedly created the heavens and the earth in just six days this would also include over 125 billion galaxies in which it takes over 4.5 million light years to reach the closest galaxy at the speed of light.
ST's probable answer, With God all things are possible.
Except the Bible God can't save souls just by himself, no! He has to let a demi-god do that for him.
Four thousand years later, of course!
Then people's hearts were continually wicked, of course God, whom being in the Heart changing business, he could have just changed everyone's wicked Heart or eliminated all evil, right then, but No!. God found it much more pleasurable to watch all the little children and elderly and those continually wicked animals all suffer and drown and grasp for their last breath...ha ha ha ha ha said the Lord!
God says thou shalt not kill, but it's ok if he does, since he makes the rules, huh?
Do as I say but don't do as I do!
Then this God elected a drunkard, Noah and his family, whom he found favor to be perfect in God's eyes, to build a boat out of gopher wood, without any saws or a hammer or nails or metal or drawings, with one window, just using pitch and wood, no bathrooms, no toilet paper, no life vests, no life boats, not knowing whether it would float or not, not knowing where they were going and not knowing when they would come back, if ever.
Then Noah, to show his kind generosity to God, gets petrified drunk, ahh glory to God!
Then a little later on we have Sodom and Gommorah had to be destroyed because, their Hearts were continually wicked. What happened to Noah and his family being saved from the flood to spread their righteousness having been so perfect in God's eyes?
Noah and his family was supposed to filter out the wicked, so much for that plan, eh?
God supposedly killed all those people after the flood, except Noah and his family to continue the righteousness in God's eyes, but it failed, failed big time.
ST:
8 – The only proof of the resurrection is the empty tomb, big whoop.
Would a non-empty tomb be better evidence? If someone rose from the dead, wouldn’t that be the first important sign? Wouldn’t that be a requirement?
No, the empty tomb isn’t the only proof (although it is perhaps the most important).
Jesus's physical body was gone. Why? If it is the "soul" that rises to Heaven, the tomb needed not to be opened.
But the tomb was OPENED!!! WHY???
Because Jesus walked out, thats why, and millions have fallen for the JESUS HOAX!!!!
There was no need for the tomb to be opened, but yes, it was witnessed by many, the tomb was open. His physical body did not rise to Heaven according to scripture, the body does not rise, it's the soul that rises.
Jesus's physical body should have still been in the tomb, but it was gone!!! Why??? Because Jesus walked out, or it was carried out, that's why?
Jesus and his loyal(but scared)disciples faked his death in order for the premeditated prophesy to appear to have become true.
ST sounds like Mr. Haney on Green Acres "I have some genuine authentic antique reproductions, I'd like to sell you, Mr. Douglas."
The Bible, the greatest story ever sold!
1 - whoever said i tried to prove the resurrection from an absent body apparently didn't read very far. reread it. (and maybe even check the resources i mentioned)
2 - citing the barbarianism of humanity was done to show how upset we get over one thing but tend to be hypocritical. that was (once again) not the whole argument. reread.
3 - JIM ARVO . . .wow. please reread. i never said because the disciples died for their belief that proved it was true. only that they were convinced it was because people won't die for what they know is a lie. if they knew jesus didn't rise from the dead, they wouldn't have died for it. as far as physical evidence of a flood, i assume you won't accept millions of dead things burried in different rock layers made by a flood. next, historians do believe in large populations that they still can find no trace of b/c archeology is fairly rare world wide. thats why we dig and look. see comment on fossil record. as far as god removing communities and being called merciful, if he didn't punish evil you would call him unjust right? no win situation. and pretty much all of the mentioned cite eyewitnesses, read it.
"according to scripture, the body does not rise, it's the soul that rises......WRONG, both body and spirit.
Jesus's physical body should have still been in the tomb, but it was gone!!! Why??? Because Jesus walked out, or it was carried out, that's why?....Jesus was dead. no walking out. if the disciples stole the body, well, reread that whole part again and look at the resources. not likely.
Jesus and his loyal(but scared)disciples faked his death in order for the premeditated prophesy to appear to have become true.....wow. again, reread.
everyone else, great emotional and straw man arguments.
i will conclude with your own:
bunch of liberal anti-country and anti-god freaks. nazi wannabes. idiots. jerks. blah blah
Your arguments are SO convincing, I wonder why the entire EX-christian population doesn't fall to their knees and re-convert to christianity immediately.
Maybe you ought to do exactly what you think everyone else should do, go back and re-read what the others have posted.
The fact that you can't come up with even a fake name, other than anonymous, tells us what kind of christian you are. It's called a "frightened chickenshit"! You are so scared of being challenged for your irrational beliefs that you hide behind "anonymous".
Yes, that's what god wants, cowardly christians!
Wow. If you don't want anybody to respond to your comments why bother posting them here? Geez.
Anonymous: "JIM ARVO . . .wow. please reread. i never said because the disciples died for their belief that proved it was true."
Anonymous... wow. Please think. If you did not offer that reasoning as evidence for the resurrection, then it was completely pointless, no? People believe a lot of things--whether they are true or not is the issue, and martyrdom does not speak to that. By the way, there is a significant hurdle that you must clear before ANY of this is relevant; and that is showing that there is historical evidence for the existence of the disciples as well as their martyrdom. Aside from Acts and the gospels themselves, there is very little if anything.
Anonymous: "...as far as physical evidence of a flood, i assume you won't accept millions of dead things burried in different rock layers made by a flood."
As evidence of a single global flood in the past 10,000 years? Are you joking? Do you realize that many of those layers represent dramatic climate changes over hundreds of thousands of years, with vast forests alternating with deserts and lakes? Please explain how that comports with a recent flood?
Anonymous: "...as far as god removing communities and being called merciful, if he didn't punish evil you would call him unjust right?"
So that explains why god saw fit to have entire communities slaughtered, including the children and even the animals. That's being merciful, right? And the bit about keeping the young virgins, that's because they were spiritually pure, right? Can you honestly read that garbage and not be repulsed by the horrific violence and the capriciousness? That's some impressive mental gymnastics.
Touché
Here, maybe this will make you feel better as a “pro-god” person……
Ooooooooooo…..ow-ow-ow-ouch…..damn….what the hell?.......AArrrgggggg….grrrrrrr……
Crap, life is so unfair and those Christians get to have fun believing in mystical beings, talking reptiles, animals and shrubbery. And they don’t even have to think for christ’s sake….they just apply the bible to their lives and everything flows smoothly from birth to death, then they get to be with Jesus forever while laughing hysterically at all the cursed roasting in the “everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels”. Oops, I forgot to pretend to feel bitter too…..
Awwwww hell….this life sucks. I wish some christian would come along and save me from myself. Damn, Damn, Damn….oh woe is me…
There! That should confirm all your biases anony. Thanks for stopping by for a laugh!
The people who exude the most anger here are typically the visiting Christians. If you think something is illogical, be specific and we can discuss/debate it. Broad brush statements are of little value, and that includes assertions about people here being angry or bitter. (Which is complete nonsense, by the way.) In my opinion, such comments are often an indication that the poster has nothing substantive to offer; it's much easier to point fingers than to assemble a cogent comment.
I love this site. It makes me laugh so hard I piss myself. It's great when a bunch of blubbering boisterous religious buffoons stumble in here and make henous generalizations about people they've never met, only because they refuse to join in on the collective kissing of Jesus' invisible white a$$. It's interesting that the only arguments that these pompous self-rightous web-pirates see as illogical, are those that are skeptical of their Jesus. Would they not say that some of the arguments made for Jesus are just as illogical as those that the Muslims make for Muhammad?...the Egyptians for Ra?...the Vikings for Odin?...kiddies for Santa? Not that some of the arguments against "T'was the Night Before Christmas" are valid, but some just seem like cheap shots to make a bunch of ignorant and scared people feel superiorly safe in their religious memes. That certainly is logical.
I thought that Somethought's or Anonymous' response was very well thought out and representative of a well educated Christian, Not some snake-handling, ranting, nut-job! I am probably older than many of the other posters on this site and, in my younger days, thought I knew more than everyone else. Oh man, I had it ALL figured out. What I have learned is that the more you know, the more you realize that you don't know very much!
Anonymous posted a logical rebuttal to some very casual observations. People, please don't forget that Penn and Teller are entertainers. Are they Dr. Penn and Dr. Teller? Have they devoted their lives to studying any of the subjects they comment about? I believe the answer is no. I enjoy a good laugh as much as anyone. But, I sense a vitriolic hatred of spirituality here. Religion is based on faith. Many things are based on faith. Science for instance is faith based. Really you say? Well, you have to have faith that the THEORY of evolution is correct in order to BELIEVE in it. Don't you? I haven't seen proof of a species jump. I have seen proof of adaptation. Personally I think that the theory of evolution offers some interesting food for thought and should not be dismissed as idiocy, but there has to be a better explanation. One, maybe, that leads to proof? So in the meantime, all of you empiricists have to have faith that the theory is correct.
As far as faith healers all being scam artists, true, I believe that there are a plethora of fakes out there or even wanna-bees. But I knew a Catholic faith healer. He was the real deal. When I met him I didn't know what to expect. He was very, very humble, soft spoken, and prayed a lot. (go figure) But when I met him for the first time, I reached out to shake his hand in greeting and I started to perspire and almost passed out. It was pretty bizarre, I must say. It was kind of like being mildly electrocuted and suddenly having a fever at the same time. But this man, Father Luke Zimmer, is well documented as healing many people of various ailments including Multiple Sclerosis. Now I am rambling I guess, but until you encounter something like this in your life, it is difficult to believe that it really can happen. I am not expecting to change people's minds on this post, just to consider for a moment that there is something out there that is beyond our relm. A closed mind, either fanatically religious or anti-religious, is a handicap.
By the way, I think Penn and Teller are very entertaining!
You've made a few assumptions. First of all, many of the regular posters on this site have gray hair. Second, age-acquired sagacity is a myth.
Thirdly, whether or not a person accepts or understands the scientific theory of evolution has no relation to believing in flying chariots, talking bushes, walking snakes, magic cloaks, sticks, and bowls, floating ax heads, or a flying un-dead man-god. Evolution is a SCIENTIFIC THEORY. Bible stories are RELIGIOUS MYTHS.
You, with your advanced wisdom, do realize there is a big difference between stories by Bronze Age religious peasants in the Middle East and modern scientific theories, don't you?
For instance, there is the Theory of Flight. Now, according to you, believing in a scientific theory is the same as believing in an ancient religious story. So, in that case, it takes the same amount of faith to believe that Elijah and Apollo had flying chariots as to believe that airplanes fly.
Here's another theory I'm sure you're familiar with:
Gravitational Theory.
I suggest you read that article. It's quite interesting to note how the scientific theory of gravitation has evolved and changed as more information has been uncovered and a better understanding of the processes of gravitation has grown. Oh, just for your information, we still don't completely understand how gravity works. Perhaps God put some magical supernatural glue into everything, kind of like how the Bible says it. Yeah, I bet that's it.
My point, oh ancient one, is that scientific theories are used in an attempt to understand and explain the natural world. Before anything can be called a "theory" it undergoes quite a bit of scrutiny, and continues to face scrutiny forever. When new information suggests adjustments are needed in any scientific theories, it happens. That's why are planes fly better today than when Orville and Wilbur first hit the sky.
In contrast, religious stories are just made up. And once written down, are never to be questioned or doubted.
Now, your Father Luke Zimmer died in 1997. Perhaps he couldn't heal himself? Do you know if he ever healed an amputee? I mean, there are a lot of people returning from Iraq with missing limbs. Surely "the real deal" could grow someone a new arm or leg. That would be quite helpful, I'm sure. Oh, and in case you hadn't noticed, the Catholic Church has accepted the theory of evolution. In fact, they teach it in their parochial schools.
As a last comment, your electric charismatic experience is nothing unique. I've had similar experiences. I assure you, you generated the feelings in your own mind through suggestion.
Goodness, another one! We hear idiotic comments like that on a daily basis. Maybe you can be the first one to explain this to me, oh hoary wizened one. Why, exactly, must I have "faith" in evolution? I have studied the evidence for evolution quite extensively, and even read dozens of creationist books that claim to refute it. My position is that the theory of evolution fits the available data spectacularly well, accounting for the phylogenetic tree of life, vestigial organs, ring species, the existence of thousands of transitional fossils, the well-documented transition from reptiles to mammals, the abundance of pseudo-genes, the presence of hind limbs in whale embryos, teeth in chicken embryos, and tails in human embryos, etc. etc. etc. (I could make a list many pages long.) It also makes thousands of very detailed predictions (e.g. concerning the "missing" primate chromosome in humans) that have been verified through molecular biology and genomics, for example. I therefore regard it as the most plausible explanation for how life attained the forms that we see today.
The theory fits the facts, it makes detailed predictions that can be verified, and speciation has in fact been observed in nature. Yet, with all of that, I'd be among the first to doubt it or cast it out entirely if new evidence came to light that proved it to be erroneous. So, I ask again: Why must I have "faith" in evolution? Of what use is "faith" in any theory? What role does it play?
(For your convenience, here are the answers to my last three questions: 1) I need not, 2) it is totally useless, and 3) It has no valid role to play in science.)
(Adults4truth)
Non-sequitur.
Watches aren't alive, don't exist in nature, and we KNOW watches are made by people.
And, even if current scientific theory is incomplete (to you), that doesn't mean there is a magical "watchmaker" in the sky.
Besides, isn't your "watchmaker" alive? I'm guessing that you are claiming that life could not exist unless it was put together by an intelligence. Well, by that logic, wouldn't your "watchmaker," who is alive, require a higher intelligence to put HIM together?
Think about it. If you are saying that there is a life form out there that wasn't created, then you are admitting that life can exist without it being created.
DUH.
Penn and Teller are the real Bullshitters here.
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