Jesus...f*** you
By Ian
Hi Jesus.
Jet me start out by saying F*** you. Yeah, that's right. F*** you. F*** you uncle f***er. What the f***? you ask. Allow me to explain. After careful consideration and a lot of thinking, I have come to the conclusion that you, as presented in the Bible and your followers, are a f***er.
How so? Let's see. If people don't believe in you, you damn them to hell. Real nice and merciful. If you damn people to hell for not believing in you and thus harming your ego, then f*** you. If you damn people to hell for following Christianity, then f*** you. If you're going to damn ME for being a freethinker and a humanist, then you're a really psychotic son of God.
Want to change your image Jesus? How about starting off by getting rid of all your spokespersons. Why not start with Billy Graham? He's a big motherf***er. I mean come on, wrinkly as a prune, thinks Satan is out to ruin the world, threatens us with hell if we don't believe, runs a big evangelical empire, etc. He's an old fart who frankly, is an asshole. Along with all the other fire and brimstone preachers who are more then happy to believe that Hindu and Chinese children who never heard of Jesus will go to hell. He's so goddamn sure of himself and your stupid religion that it really pisses me off. He keeps saying "Come to Jesus. Come to Jesus. Come to Jesus."
Actually, that reminds me. I've come to you Jesus. Twice now. I lapsed a few days ago, unable to take the pressure, anxiety, uncertainty (which you caused by the way) of not following you. So I lapsed. Yes, I lapsed back into following you. But now, I can clearly see that you are an asshole who will damn everyone who is not a Christian to hell at the end of time. If that's who you are Jesus, then I want nothing to do with you.
You and your sayings have caused me nothing but misery, anxiety, depression, fear, terror, and sadness. You truly are a divider. You make some people ecstatically happy while making others (me) truly depressed and full of fear because we don't believe in you. Of course, you didn't really give much of a choice for those who want to think for themselves. Believe in me, or you will be damned. Wow. Mighty fine choices you gave us.
After Billy Graham, why not Greg Laurie? Then go after those nut-jobs who wrote the Left Behind series! The next generation of spreading fear and terror in Christ's name! Amen brother!
Say, that reminds me of another amusing anecdote. Your dad's book (which is a piece of boring shit) says that those who don't believe in the message of the cross are unsaved and wicked. Well whoop-dee-do. Big surprise there. After all, the idea that you covered all of humanity's sins for all time by dying on a cross sounds nice. But to free thinkers and those who like personal responsibility and getting what you earn, it sounds stupid. To get into heaven, all you have to do is believe in Jesus and accept him as lord. Sounds simple. But everyone who doesn't do that goes to hell. Doesn't matter how nice you are, doesn't matter how good, friendly, kind, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent you are, you're still going to hell. While as a believer in Jesus, you can do pretty much do anything. Why? Because Christians are forgiven! (Speaking of which, can you do me a favor and damn that insensitive asshole who came up with that bumper sticker "Christians aren't different, we're just forgiven."? That sticker really pisses me off).
In this system, personal conduct and responsibility mean nothing. People, even the most scum-ridden filth, can go to heaven simply by accepting a gift. Shouldn't heaven be based on, oh I don't know, personal conduct? Isn't the most fair type of system the one that gives people what they earn? In a perfect afterlife system, people would go to where they fit in, with religion having nothing to do with it. Of course, according to the yawn inducing gospel, that's not how it goes. It all has to do with faith and belief.
I, with my own intellect, am for people getting what they earn. Of course, because I'm not a believer, I'm wicked and evil. My sinful tendencies are driving me to get along with others, make other people happy, peacefully co-exist with others and make the world a better place. Hmm...I think I'll follow my sinful tendencies!
Basically Jesus, it boils down to this: Having you in my life has caused nothing but misery and sorrow. When you were out of my life, before I came to Christianity, I was a lot happier. When I left Christianity, I was a lot happier. Whenever you come into my life, along with that religion of yours, my happiness and well-being plunged. You are supposed to be the Great Shepherd. Well, you threaten your sheep and terrify them into following you mindlessly. The sheep that thinks for itself and tries to improve itself as an individual is the one that is cast out of the flock to be torn to shreds by ravenous wolves. The sheep that dares to think the other sheep can be nice and are good at heart is the one that is chucked into the harsh wilderness to wander forever.
I'm the sheep that thinks for itself. But to you and God, the devil and demons, I'm just currency. I'm a piece on the chessboard that's up for grabs. Nobody gives a shit what I want, what I think, and what I believe. All that matters is getting this piece. God apparently wants me to worship Him and do His will (getting others to do His will, repeat to infinity), while Satan wants to torture me and cut me off from God for all eternity. And I, as the piece on the chessboard, have virtually no say in the matter. Both choices seem pretty bad, but at least with Satan I would be away from those f***ing evangelicals (the real bogeymen of lore) and fundamentalists (a cancer that needs to be wiped off the face of the earth). Amen to that!
I'm the sheep that thinks for itself. You may be a shepherd, but you intimidate, threaten, and use fear to keep us in line instead of love. I want nothing to do with you anymore. I would rather focus on God and not on you because frankly, You (along with your agents) have made my life hell. You're not an individual I would want to be associated with, and you're a despicable being if you're going to damn billions to hell because they don't believe in you. Hitler and Stalin may have killed and tortured, but at least the suffering for their victims came to an end. Your victims will be tortured forever and ever without end. You, dear sir, are evil. If you are the son of God, then your father must be even more insane and cruel then you are.
You caused me nothing but misery. You threaten, intimidate, and apparently damn people to hell. You are a negative part of my life. Unlike all the big name people in the world who proclaim you as a master and a teacher who taught love (Hahahahahah), I actually looked at you in the Bible. Almost all of your teachings are shockingly mean, and you damn people who don't believe in you.
You sir, are disgusting and you sir, are someone I don't respect at all. If you are going to damn me for not believing in you and for believing in the power of love and kindness, then f*** you. Of course, according to the bible, I'm already damned. You're going to send me to hell saying that you never knew me. All my achievements, all of my accomplishments are worth shit. My life is shit. I am, according to you and your Nazgûl (John and the apostles), shit.
And that, Jesus, is why I say...f*** you.
Hi Jesus.
Jet me start out by saying F*** you. Yeah, that's right. F*** you. F*** you uncle f***er. What the f***? you ask. Allow me to explain. After careful consideration and a lot of thinking, I have come to the conclusion that you, as presented in the Bible and your followers, are a f***er.
How so? Let's see. If people don't believe in you, you damn them to hell. Real nice and merciful. If you damn people to hell for not believing in you and thus harming your ego, then f*** you. If you damn people to hell for following Christianity, then f*** you. If you're going to damn ME for being a freethinker and a humanist, then you're a really psychotic son of God.
Want to change your image Jesus? How about starting off by getting rid of all your spokespersons. Why not start with Billy Graham? He's a big motherf***er. I mean come on, wrinkly as a prune, thinks Satan is out to ruin the world, threatens us with hell if we don't believe, runs a big evangelical empire, etc. He's an old fart who frankly, is an asshole. Along with all the other fire and brimstone preachers who are more then happy to believe that Hindu and Chinese children who never heard of Jesus will go to hell. He's so goddamn sure of himself and your stupid religion that it really pisses me off. He keeps saying "Come to Jesus. Come to Jesus. Come to Jesus."
Actually, that reminds me. I've come to you Jesus. Twice now. I lapsed a few days ago, unable to take the pressure, anxiety, uncertainty (which you caused by the way) of not following you. So I lapsed. Yes, I lapsed back into following you. But now, I can clearly see that you are an asshole who will damn everyone who is not a Christian to hell at the end of time. If that's who you are Jesus, then I want nothing to do with you.
You and your sayings have caused me nothing but misery, anxiety, depression, fear, terror, and sadness. You truly are a divider. You make some people ecstatically happy while making others (me) truly depressed and full of fear because we don't believe in you. Of course, you didn't really give much of a choice for those who want to think for themselves. Believe in me, or you will be damned. Wow. Mighty fine choices you gave us.
After Billy Graham, why not Greg Laurie? Then go after those nut-jobs who wrote the Left Behind series! The next generation of spreading fear and terror in Christ's name! Amen brother!
Say, that reminds me of another amusing anecdote. Your dad's book (which is a piece of boring shit) says that those who don't believe in the message of the cross are unsaved and wicked. Well whoop-dee-do. Big surprise there. After all, the idea that you covered all of humanity's sins for all time by dying on a cross sounds nice. But to free thinkers and those who like personal responsibility and getting what you earn, it sounds stupid. To get into heaven, all you have to do is believe in Jesus and accept him as lord. Sounds simple. But everyone who doesn't do that goes to hell. Doesn't matter how nice you are, doesn't matter how good, friendly, kind, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent you are, you're still going to hell. While as a believer in Jesus, you can do pretty much do anything. Why? Because Christians are forgiven! (Speaking of which, can you do me a favor and damn that insensitive asshole who came up with that bumper sticker "Christians aren't different, we're just forgiven."? That sticker really pisses me off).
In this system, personal conduct and responsibility mean nothing. People, even the most scum-ridden filth, can go to heaven simply by accepting a gift. Shouldn't heaven be based on, oh I don't know, personal conduct? Isn't the most fair type of system the one that gives people what they earn? In a perfect afterlife system, people would go to where they fit in, with religion having nothing to do with it. Of course, according to the yawn inducing gospel, that's not how it goes. It all has to do with faith and belief.
I, with my own intellect, am for people getting what they earn. Of course, because I'm not a believer, I'm wicked and evil. My sinful tendencies are driving me to get along with others, make other people happy, peacefully co-exist with others and make the world a better place. Hmm...I think I'll follow my sinful tendencies!
Basically Jesus, it boils down to this: Having you in my life has caused nothing but misery and sorrow. When you were out of my life, before I came to Christianity, I was a lot happier. When I left Christianity, I was a lot happier. Whenever you come into my life, along with that religion of yours, my happiness and well-being plunged. You are supposed to be the Great Shepherd. Well, you threaten your sheep and terrify them into following you mindlessly. The sheep that thinks for itself and tries to improve itself as an individual is the one that is cast out of the flock to be torn to shreds by ravenous wolves. The sheep that dares to think the other sheep can be nice and are good at heart is the one that is chucked into the harsh wilderness to wander forever.
I'm the sheep that thinks for itself. But to you and God, the devil and demons, I'm just currency. I'm a piece on the chessboard that's up for grabs. Nobody gives a shit what I want, what I think, and what I believe. All that matters is getting this piece. God apparently wants me to worship Him and do His will (getting others to do His will, repeat to infinity), while Satan wants to torture me and cut me off from God for all eternity. And I, as the piece on the chessboard, have virtually no say in the matter. Both choices seem pretty bad, but at least with Satan I would be away from those f***ing evangelicals (the real bogeymen of lore) and fundamentalists (a cancer that needs to be wiped off the face of the earth). Amen to that!
I'm the sheep that thinks for itself. You may be a shepherd, but you intimidate, threaten, and use fear to keep us in line instead of love. I want nothing to do with you anymore. I would rather focus on God and not on you because frankly, You (along with your agents) have made my life hell. You're not an individual I would want to be associated with, and you're a despicable being if you're going to damn billions to hell because they don't believe in you. Hitler and Stalin may have killed and tortured, but at least the suffering for their victims came to an end. Your victims will be tortured forever and ever without end. You, dear sir, are evil. If you are the son of God, then your father must be even more insane and cruel then you are.
You caused me nothing but misery. You threaten, intimidate, and apparently damn people to hell. You are a negative part of my life. Unlike all the big name people in the world who proclaim you as a master and a teacher who taught love (Hahahahahah), I actually looked at you in the Bible. Almost all of your teachings are shockingly mean, and you damn people who don't believe in you.
You sir, are disgusting and you sir, are someone I don't respect at all. If you are going to damn me for not believing in you and for believing in the power of love and kindness, then f*** you. Of course, according to the bible, I'm already damned. You're going to send me to hell saying that you never knew me. All my achievements, all of my accomplishments are worth shit. My life is shit. I am, according to you and your Nazgûl (John and the apostles), shit.
And that, Jesus, is why I say...f*** you.
Comments
Well done! And welcome. And keep saying f-you until you don't need to any more!
Valerie
You're pissed at a figment.
It is the fact that JC is so f-cking better then you (at least in his mind!!), and gets his rocks off by torture though fire - even burning kids. Now that is one seiously sick f-ck!
But it is my guess that the assholes back in the Council of Trent (See Catholic BS) who started the worst parts of the Christian faith.
Now I am seriously pissed at the people who walk around thinking they are better (the Christians) and who are so stupid that they can't see the forest through the trees such as passing off 6,000 year old Earth as science! Goddamn, how STUPID can they be!
As to Ian's post... I've never seen Uncle fucker used in anger before, only on South Park... and he has a valid point. Jesus' followers tend to try and sell this creature that is a psychotic, inadequate monster, who'll torture you forever 'because he loves you' I took it as heavy irony, rather than Ian taking the Jesus meme overly seriously any more... But I could just be a senile old fool :)
Love and hugs
Grandpa Harley
The original sin was when the Bible God whom suppossedly created all things, also created and allowed an Evil Being to exist, long before Adam and Eve ever existed, this god knew all along what he was dealing with and just what he had created. ref: Isaiah 47:7. If this God is in full control, then it would have been such an easy task to expel and dispose of this evil being.
It's all man-made bullshit invented long before the Jesus scam!
" I read a book and now I am mad at the book." I don't think the book did anything bad, It is just a collection of words.
Maybe its the people that pushed the book, that used social pressure to make people conform to the rules in the book with out thinking.
Just a thought.
Elder Norm
It's messengers and teachers of the babble "I'M MAD AT,...FOR THEY'RE REAL!"
These liars(preachers)make a good living off the Bile-bull, and are the ones that we should direct this righteous anger towards.*peace
to you Ian!
Jesus, the character (which is obviously pointed out in the essay) is an asshole. I totally agree.
-- I'll leave "God" out of this since I'm not sure some entity referred to as such in the Bible even exists anywhere. --
Jesus wasn't necessarily good or bad. I'm not even sure how much of what Jesus said was falsified by the people who wrote the Bible, but when I read the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) ignoring religious superstitions and looking for symbolism, I see a philosophy emerge that makes some sense:
Existence is full of both pain and pleasure. All beings desire to avoid pain, but the balance of things insists that focusing on pleasure in the short term will ultimately lead to pain in the long term and vice versa. ("He who exalts himself will be humbled. He who humbles himself will be exalted.")
Some pain is unavoidable but made worse through greed and better through selflessness. The less one has, the less one has to loose. ("He who saves his life will lose it. He who loses his life will save it.")
The state of being controlled by pain is symbolized by "Satan" and "hell". The state of transcending pain is symbolic of "God" and "heaven". Each being chooses its own path. ("What good is it a man gains the world but loses his soul?")
The meaning of existence is change. Every so often the change amasses to a great swell. The world reaches a point of near collapse and it seems that all is lost, but soon the next world will emerge, and the cycle will start again. Those who know this have less to fear and can enjoy the process more. (I don't remember any end-of-the-world quotes off the top of my head.)
As I've said in other posts, I don't disagree with Christianity entirely. I only think it's a theory that needs revision.
I would like to add that the(dumb,dumb,dumb,dumb,dumb)sheeple who support these psychotic bible nuts are keeping this sh*t alive.
F***in morons!!!Wake up!
Greg Laury, David Jeremiah, Chuck Swindoll, James Dobson, Joel Osteen, Hank Hanegraaff, Rick Warren, Dennis Rayney, and all the others.
F*** them all. I wonder how many of them are gay or are sleeping with members of the congregation. You do have to wonder.
Hope you are feeling better after writing the essay, Ian.
"God says each of us is significant and of great value and worth"
Lorena responds:
Blaine, I don't need God's opinion on my worth. I am quite aware of it. I am sorry that you and the 12-year old need outside help to feel strong and worthy. It is quite sad, actually.
And we definitly need more christians like Blaine. His words are far more powerful then any fundamentalists. I work at a public library, and his definition of God and Justice is far better then 95% of the books written on the subject.
I'm sure it felt good letting that out. When I read the Psalms I see those same types of honest, raw prayers to God in there.
I don't think your rant hurt God, or offended him like it would the Christians who make him to be what they want him to be.
I think he cares, is concerned, and wants what is best for you. But, that's what I think.
I felt in reading your honest expression of frustration that your frustration was vented toward a false God.
I don't see the Jesus you told off in the Scriptures.
The Jesus you gave the finger to I wouldn't follow.
Jesus seems to be proof that God cares, wants us to know him and be known by him, and be what we were meant to be.
I think your views of the things you ranted against come from false teachings on the Bible. I have been a pastor for five years, and have been studying the Bible for over a decade, and I don't see what you see.
In fact, I hate the teachings that you are ranting against. I'm with you. I think God is as well.
What I do find interesting is that you hate that Jesus would condemn people for not believing in him, but you tell him to "f___ off". How is that any different.
It seems you are becoming the disciple of the God you hate.
Maybe instead of falling back to following him a third time you should walk away for good and follow Jesus as you find him the Bible, minus the false teachings you have received and that have hurt you.
Jesus said, "I come to bring life and life more abundant." If you haven't found that in following Jesus, then I would think you were following the wrong guy...
In other words, if I don't believe in Jesus, i'm going to be cast away into hell to be burned. And because Jesus says that hell lasts for all eternity, i'm doomed. Considering how he talks about how hell is eternal at other places in the bible, then i'm pretty much fucked according to him. Not the nicest fellow if that's true.
TBH, we really have no idea what that means... there's a lot of exegesis telling us what it means, but bear in mind, we have a text that wend from being an Aramaic oral tradition into a Greek translation copied by amateurs until Nicea in the AD 400s, then translated to Latin then into English. Going back to the Greek, bearing in mind the transmission post oral, is unreliable, and in a language that is as similar to Aramaic as it is Mayan...
Aramaic is a language of numerous layers of meaning, thus the exegesis of a translation of a translation of a translation takes one possible meaning and makes it a fixed rule... which is bollocks.
Love and hugs
Grandpa H
"In 1971 I gave my heart to Jesus and my past, which could have destroyed me or hurt others, became a vehicle to help many."
Lorena:
I am glad the religion works for you, Ian. It didn't work for me, so I ditched it.
Your religion made me hateful and judgemental. I don't want to be that way.
Again, I am sorry that you need Jesus to be compelled to do good works toward your fellow humans. That attitude shuld be natural. Many people do help others without the need for Jesus, Blaine.
But again, we should all do what works for us. For me Jesus is a myth , the illusion of which did nothing for my life.
If the illusion of Jesus helps you, by all means, stick with it. But understand that other people find in other deities what you found in Jesus. So your experience isn't unique.
I hate Christians for making me think any differently than this when I was younger (and it isn't a petty grudge because they continue to try to make me think their way today).
I'm not trying to be mean but the one(s) you should be angry with isn't Jesus, Santa, God, whatever, but instead the *believers* that told you all this. Think about it. Did you hear any disembodied voice tell you that the Bible words are true? Did you actually meet Jesus in person, see him and hear him say these things to you? Bet nobody has, at least not in THIS generation.
What you heard was words of other *people* who told you these things. What you read was a book written by *people* who claimed to have heard/saw things that now historians are doubting even happened, or that may have been based on myths from way before the proported birth of Jesus.
Unless you heard these things directly from a Jesus or a God themselves, don't blame those you never seen or met or heard them say these things.
The anger should be directed at all the people who were using psychology to get into your head and make you a part of their little world so they have others to share their beliefs with, so they wouldn't be alone. So they don't have to think.
And just like any other people you don't like in the world, simply stay away from them.
Emotional abuse is hard to get over, however, be it from family or other folks you hung out with for a long time. They screwed with your head. You might feel like you were weak for believing what they said. But you're not.
You saw what they were doing to you and you got away from them.
Now stay away from them. Stay away from those that tick you off. Keep company of those you enjoy being with. And now you know not to believe things unless you have proof. You learned. It'll make you stronger.
its funny how the 2 biggest religions in the world islam and christianity both call each other the devil, look at all the people who have died in the past and still today because of what those books say, but yet people say god is good and dont see the evil in it.jesus and allah are both 100 times worse than bin laden cause they preach some good which tricks peoples minds into ignoring the evil shit they say and stand for. what if bin laden preached dont murder and dont lie and all that shit, does that make him a good man? u see what im saying.
im happy for u dude that u see through that cult, as far as other christians on here saying u shouldnt be mad at it, they obviously still have thier blinders on and are blinded by the light, theyll find out 1 day, when jesus never shows up or unfortunately if thier is another crusade in the name of these so called gods that love us so much.
stay up ian, stay true 2 yourself and live everyday 2 the fullest man, life is what u make it.
-Tim
I hope you are able to work through all this and get real peace inside yourself soon (know Jesus = no peace - that should be a bumper sticker, lol). The whole bible mess & characters are based on myth. I encourage you to read websites on that. If you need spirituality, I encourage you to read more on it, but without religion, which is a mind, body & soul "killer". You can get through this ordeal. Just replace the thoughts of xianity, bible and Jesus & co. with something positive and true. Over time, the habit will stick. Just think, in some other country there are probably former xxxianists (insert any religion here) who are mad at what was pulled over their eyes, and also trying to rid themselves of the mental baggage and mind-fuxxxxx they took over religion. You aren't alone. Others have come through and you will too. Peace!
I've been burned by the religion crap, too, saying I believed in things only to find out I only wanted to believe these things. When I was able to see what I really believed, it was cool. Thing is, what I really believed is that despite my fake faith, it still seemed at least possible that God could be real. That those experiences I had 15 years ago were more than just delusions or wishful thinking. Come on, poster. Get some balls. The church helped you believe the worst about yourself. Get over it. Leave the church. But blaming Jesus because of your own shit, I mean if he isn't real, where did all your problems come from? Get a grip, take a breath,and when you get a sense of security about what you really believe take another look with some courage. If it isn't real, whatcha got to lose at one more time at seeing if He is more real than the fakers say he is. Otherwise, mope and bitch, play the victim of someone elses misunderstandings. Take a chance,man.
if your landlord said that he was taking over his house sometime soon and all that want to stay with him are welcome as long as they ask, those who want nothing to do with the landlord will have to leave, what kind of friggin idiot blames the landlord for the ensuing homelessness when he told the tennants well ahead of time what they needed to do to stay. I mean, even if the story is false, at least get it straight.
just found your last comment. I think your insecurities made you judgemental. Part of the reason people flock to the religion is to fill the void, find a set of rules to live by and find some security. Own it first, then you might be on the way to being free, or you can continue to be judgemental under the guise of "exchristian enlightenment".
God is not the monster you’ve construed him to be in your mind. He is compassionate, understanding, merciful, just, and slow to anger. I don’t know what’s going on in your life – that’s between you and God – but there’s nothing so awful that you’ve done that He won’t forgive you for if you ask Him sincerely. Jesus came here in human form and was tempted by all of the same things you and I are tempted with - He understands the human condition and our weaknesses. Call to Him – not with rage but as a humble creation of His. He will hear you. Ask him to open your ears to the truth of His word.
One last piece of advice, try to forget the things you’ve heard preachers say. I’m not implying that their message was bad or wrong but you must start with a clean slate. Read the Gospel of John, slowly, with the viewpoint that the words you are reading are what your creator is revealing about Himself to mankind.
Hang in there. You sound like a tormented person but I can assure you that there is no one that is unreachable. God will forgive you but you must be patient and approach Him humbly.
But I still do not approve of the idea that all those who don't believe in Jesus will be thrown into hell forever. I would think that God is more interested in charachter and personal conduct then belief. We, as humans, value action over saying what we're going to do. A perfect God should, presumably (if it exists in the first place, which I believe sie does), be like the same. Action over belief.
I'm the fundie you referenced. No, I didn't post thinking you and the others here had not read the Bible. It's clear you have. I don't understand the hate you have for God but I think that it stems from some sort of conflict you have - otherwise you would not be so vociferous on the subject. People believe all sorts of things that I don't agree with but I don't slam them all as morons and try to convince them and others that they are wrong. If I'm convinced I'm right then it really doesn't matter what their opinions are. A simple analogy is this - if you tell me "2 + 2 = 5", I'll say "No, it equals 4" and leave it at that. I have no reason to try to convince you that the answer is 4... I'm confident it is...and if you choose to believe that it's 5 then it is your issue to deal with.
Believe it or not, the reason that I posted is because I have concern for you and everyone here that has posted comments about how much they hate Jesus Christ. He is mankinds only hope for salvation. Our lives here on earth are very short. Eternity is forever. I don't want to see anyone tormented in both this life and eternity. Our creator has revealed Himself to us through the Bible. He’s showed us the path to Heaven. I have peace knowing that when I die I am going to a place that God has prepared for me. I want the same for you and the others here. How is it that you can hate me for wanting what is good for you? If I’m believing a “fairy tale,” how does that harm you? Why are you so angry?
I think you have is wrong! WE say 2+2=4, it is christians who say 2+2=5! Please get your facts straight!
"I don't understand the hate you have for God..."
We do not hate that which does not exist!
"If I’m believing a “fairy tale,” how does that harm you? Why are you so angry?"
We are angry with anyone who tries to force their "fairy tale" on us! You know that you do whenever you vote for some stupid christian value like baning gay marriage! What harm does that do to you? If marriage is "god's bond" between a man and a woman, then first the government should not regulate it, second, please work to outlaw divorce! Oh that is right, divorce is a-ok to you christians. Pick and choose what you want to believe in and discard the rest!
And no I am not gay, but have gay relatives and friends!
In your very first sentence of the original post, you wrote “The God that you are describing is not the God of the Bible.” Explain these:
"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18)
"The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women" (Ezekiel 9:4-6)
"When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves." (Deuteronomy 20:13-14)
Now, either you are reading a different bible than any of the Ex-Christians here, or you blew in here assuming we’ve only read bits and pieces, whereas YOU have read it all and therefore just KNEW it couldn’t be the same god. Is the above the same god as in the bible Anonymous? Please enlighten us…
“God of the bible made the first man and woman perfect…and they chose to disobey?”
How could they “choose” to disobey when they had no idea of the concept of right and wrong until AFTER they ate of the fruit? If you were blind from birth, how would you describe the color green?
I was going to reply to the rest of your post, but Freeman summed it all up very nicely.
Again, thanks for that original thinking. We need a good laugh now and then. Does that mean we’re all angry? Hmmmmmmm…….
As a citizen of the U.S. I’ve been afforded the right to vote for politicians that represent my values. There are laws that I agree with and laws that I disagree with.
Ian started this thread with a 1400 hundred word essay to Jesus on how much he hates Jesus. That implies that Ian believes that Jesus exists.
Have you pondered how the elements that make up what we see around us even exist? Scientists tell us that all matter was contained in a super massive ball that exploded. But where did that matter come from? How did it get there to begin with? How long was it there? And what forces made it finally explode? And when life was formed on earth – scientists tell us that plants and animals were all created by some random natural event that took place (which, by the way, doesn’t even fit the criteria of a theory). My point is that what you believe is every bit as much “faith” as is my belief that the designer of what I see around me has chosen to reveal himself to us through the Holy Bible. I believe in life after death – and I believe that there are two paths – one that leads to everlasting life and one that leads to everlasting damnation. Are you so confident in your faith that you are willing to risk an eternity in hell? Can you not just humbly say a prayer that God open your mind to the truth?
"As a citizen of the U.S. I’ve been afforded the right to vote for politicians that represent my values. There are laws that I agree with and laws that I disagree with."
Yes, but when you and those you voted for pass laws according to the bible, you become un-American and Pro-Iranian! So much for a secular government! You choose to squash minority rights! This country's government is a Republic not Democracy to protect minorities!
Ian started this thread with a 1400 hundred word essay to Jesus on how much he hates Jesus. That implies that Ian believes that Jesus exists.
My string was to YOUR REPLY TO WARNEPIECE, not Ian's. Jesus is imaginary! From what I read in Ian's piece was a tounge in cheek essay and he no longer believes in the boggie man. Ian, please correct me if I am wrong.
Have you pondered how the elements that make up what we see around us even exist? Scientists tell us that all matter was contained in a super massive ball that exploded.
Exactly, the BIG BANG!
But where did that matter come from? How did it get there to begin with? How long was it there?
Matter is neither created nor destroyed! Please study physics!
And what forces made it finally explode?
As Potiential Energy reaches 100%, it will begin to move toward Actual Enery naturally. And visa versa. Explosion followed by Implosion over and over and over...
And when life was formed on earth – scientists tell us that plants and animals were all created by some random natural event that took place (which, by the way, doesn’t even fit the criteria of a theory).
On who's authority do you say that evolution does not meet the criteria of a theory! You have just proved that you have very little intellect!
My point is that what you believe is every bit as much “faith” as is my belief that the designer of what I see around me has chosen to reveal himself to us through the Holy Bible.
That is the standard BULLSHIT that EVERY christian claims! Science is grounded in discovery of facts not faith. There is zero evidence for jesus and your god outside the bible!
I believe in life after death – and I believe that there are two paths – one that leads to everlasting life and one that leads to everlasting damnation. Are you so confident in your faith that you are willing to risk an eternity in hell? Can you not just humbly say a prayer that God open your mind to the truth?
Nothing fails like prayer!
11/07/2006 12:56 PM
I don't pretend to understand the Bible in it's entirety. The complexity of the Bible emphasizes to me that it was penned by man but inspired by God. There are many passages that I don’t understand and I don’t suppose I ever will unless God has reason to reveal them to me. I believe that events like you pointed out really did happen but the stories are also an allegory that point to Jesus Christ and the judgment of mankind. Fortunately, you and I live in a time where there is a new covenant between God and man and that is one of grace through Jesus Christ. Through faith in Jesus Christ our sins debt is paid in full. It almost seems too common to repeat but God tells us “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” – that’s the love of God that I was mentioning.
As for being anonymous - I'll get an account soon. I just really hate giving out my e-mail address unless I know I'm going to post at a site more than a few times. Eventually everyone here will probably run me out of town :)
Can't fault that statement.
Ian started this thread with a 1400 hundred word essay to Jesus on how much he hates Jesus. That implies that Ian believes that Jesus exists.
I can see where you might jump to that conclusion, but Ian is a talented writer. It is more than a little likely that he is simply using a literary device to illustrate his points.
Have you pondered how the elements that make up what we see around us even exist?
Yes, everyone does that.
Scientists tell us...
So, is your point that scientists are wrong, evil, stupid, or possessed by the devil? Do you also cast aspersions on medical scientists, engineering scientists, archeological scientists, etc., or does your distrust of science only extend into those areas that seem to contradict your particular denominations interpretation of the Bible?
Have you read even one scientific book explaining the theories you denigrate? Please don’t quote some scientifically ignorant Christian apologist.
Can’t you just…?
Can’t you just realize that gods; demons; angels; talking snakes; floating, square cities; flying, fiery chariots; talking donkeys; satyrs; dragons; world-wide floods; evil apples; and flying, un-dead god-men, are all the stuff of myth?
*Sigh*
You never needed to register. If you would take the one or two seconds to click the "Other" button and type in a pseudonym, your posts wouldn't be labled as "anonymous."
*Sigh*
Say what? The messenger is wrong, but the message is right. Wow, talk about suspension of logic!
Anonymous: “There are many passages that I don’t understand and I don’t suppose I ever will unless God has reason to reveal them to me. I believe that events like you pointed out really did happen but the stories are also an allegory that point to Jesus Christ and the judgment of mankind.”
Why haven’t you prayed to god to reveal it to you? Isn’t that part of what you do with prayer? Yep, those events happened. And guess who did them? Jesus…who is just god in human skin. So that same savior endorsed killing, rape, pillage, theft, slavery…but he loves us and wants to save us! Please!!!
Anonymous: “Fortunately, you and I live in a time where there is a new covenant between God and man and that is one of grace through Jesus Christ. Through faith in Jesus Christ our sins debt is paid in full. It almost seems too common to repeat but God tells us “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” – that’s the love of God that I was mentioning.”
Yep, that God of love. Jesus, who is the very same being (if you buy into the 3-in-1nonsense) as the sadistic beast in the old testament! Sorry, a killing god doesn’t turn around and say, “Whoops, my bad. Here, let me put on some human skin and committed assisted suicide (because he knew what was coming and went along with the program) in order to save you from a rule I set up.”
Anonymous: “As for being anonymous - I'll get an account soon. I just really hate giving out my e-mail address unless I know I'm going to post at a site more than a few times. Eventually everyone here will probably run me out of town :)”
NO!...REALLY? With god on your side?
In my opinion Anonymous = coward.
Are you fuckin kiddin me? The old testament is filled with stories of fathers fuckin their daughters and brothers sleeping with sisters and babies being sacrificed and lambs being killed and people fuckin animals. Women being killed and treated like shit. Sounds like some west virginia fuck flick. Shit is fuckin insane!
Even in the most current newsweek article about Billy Grham he basically comes out and says he doesn't believe the entire bible was God inspired or God written. I don't have the exact quote but he says some shit like I no longer believe the entire bible was written by God like I used too.
Christianity was so damn confusing when I was a christian with everyone thinking that their church or they were in sole possesion of the truth. I am so thankful I found the backdoor and I'm not referring to the backdoor that Ted HAggard is used to. I mean a real door.
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!" But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
You never have to feel as though you’ve sinned so much that God can’t possibly forgive you and you can repent until your last dying breath.
That's odd....I thought it was written under premise that no such a$$hole so big could exist, no? Well, if "He" does exist...add "LAZY bastard" to the list.
Have you pondered how the elements that make up what we see around us even exist?
Naturally.
Scientists tell us that all matter was contained in a super massive ball that exploded. But where did that matter come from? How did it get there to begin with? How long was it there? And what forces made it finally explode?
1) 'Don't know
2) 'Don't know
3) 'Don't know
4) 'Don't know
....and because I don't know(no one does), I simply say "I don't know", instead of positing a magical cosmic ghost as the default "answer". Ancient man didn't "know" what caused rainbows, so they mustered up the notion that it was God's message that he wouldn't flood the earth again. There was even said to be "gold" at the end of the rainbow. However, we now know that neither "hypothesis" is true. There is a perfectly natural explanation for rainbows, and likewise, there may one day be perfectly logical and natural explanations for all those other proposed questions.
My point is that what you believe is every bit as much “faith” as is my belief that the designer of what I see around me has chosen to reveal himself to us through the Holy Bible.
The "faith"(lower case "f") that one may have in science is that there are no "absolutes", with the exception of "change", and that science objectively observes, with it's results being testable AND falsifiable. Conversely, the religious type of "Faith"(upper case "f") is a different ball of wax. Religious convictions, mainly based off their ancient texts, are NOT subject to change, so when said beliefs/convictions conflict with reality, it's adherents believe regardless, because they have "Faith". 'Two different things.
I believe in life after death – and I believe that there are two paths – one that leads to everlasting life and one that leads to everlasting damnation.
You "believe", do ya? That's utterly fantastic. Scientologists(some) "believe" that lizard men inhabit a remote planet, and that these creatures come to earth and "shape-shift" into humans in order to mingle, and thus, conspire against us. The fact that they "believe" this says nothing about reality, however. A "belief" is a belief is a belief.
Are you so confident in your faith that you are willing to risk an eternity in hell? Can you not just humbly say a prayer that God open your mind to the truth?
Can you not just humbly cut your neighbor's heads off, attach them to your clothes-line, put on a pair of lamb-skin skivvies, start a giant bonfire, smear pigeon's blood on your face, and dance around in circles so Gambu, the Holy Headhunter god can show you "truth"?
Don't you see how ridiculous you sound?
Thanks for clearing that up. Now we understand, the bible is made up of allegories! So which parts are real and which are just the allegories Anonymous? I supposed god has revealed that to you, even though he chooses not to reveal other important info. (See my last post.) The whole thing is a “Let’s scare the hell out of everyone” camp fire story concocted by semi literate Bronze Age heathens who didn’t understand the world around them. There is NO PROOF it’s was inspired or written by god. Do you get it?
Anonymous: “One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!" But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
So what if there were two criminals hangin’ with Jesus? It’s an allegory, remember? It didn’t happen. (Just as an aside, how did that criminal who defended Jesus get to paradise with him when Jesus died and supposedly went to hell for three days? Oh wait, paradise = hell. Must be a Club Med franchise.)
Anony: You never have to feel as though you’ve sinned so much that God can’t possibly forgive you and you can repent until your last dying breath.
Who told you you’ve sinned? Is there anything you can show us, outside of the bible or koran, that says we are all sinners? It’s make believe, Anonymous! Your believing in it won’t make it any more real than if you go outside, build a bonfire, dance around it, and scream at the moon!
what makes someone believe?
just because you believe God is not real, doesn't make him not real, correct?
honest question: what is your definition of real?
I for one, and I am sure that I can speak for many here, have never said that a deity does not exist. We have no way of knowing. However, we can say that there is NO EVIDENCE for the Judeo/Christian/Muslim god! We have rejected the god of Abraham because it is mythology!
"classify" is a better word than "dismiss" for my question
The same exact reason you dismiss Allah, Buddha, Amon Ra, Mithra, Poseidon, Thor, Hercules.....um, basically, every "God" but your own, as "mythology".
Thanks for at least not posting as another “Anonymous”.
What makes someone believe? “Makes” suggests force, and I object to that. I think what you mean is, why would someone choose to believe. If they believe because someone else told them to because it is written in a book, I would say their belief is misguided at best. Believing should not flow from coercion.
What I don’t believe is the biblical god. There may be a “god”, I don’t know. But based on the bible, the god of Christianity is a hoax. If you have proof that that god is real, please present your evidence. With one provision, do it without the bible.
What to me is real? Per Merriam-Webster: REAL: not artificial, fraudulent, or illusory (like the bible god): a) Genuine: also: being precisely what the name implies, b) (1) : occurring or existing in actuality, (2) :of or relating to practical or everyday concerns or activities.
That is also MY definition of real! If that is not good enough, check out Freeman’s posting above.
by the way, boomslang, it's good to type to you again.
There may have been historical figures named Jesus, Moses and Abraham. Matter of fact, I think all three of them were part of the Mexican crew that did some remodeling for me recently. Surely you are not going to tell us that, because there were people name Jesus, Moses and Abraham that that proves the bible, or that the biblical god, is real.
well, there was historical evidense for Jesus, Moses and Abraham. I can see why the stories about such men may be in question, but, if I'm not mistaken there is evidence of there actual human existence. The other guys you listed are not.
Please oh enlightened one, show us the evidence! We have been searching and have come up wanting! Hurry, please do not keep us in the dark! You have finally done what no historians have never been able to do! You are the only human on earth who has evidence that there was a historical Jesus, Moses and Abraham! I for one am in awe!
as far as belief, I'm not sure you can choose what you really believe. I'm thinking of the last scene in Pulp Fiction where Jules breaks down his verse in Ezekiel to the robber in the restaurant. He wants to believe he's the shepherd, but knows (or really believes) he is the tyranny of evil men. But, he's trying ringo :)
I guess what I'm saying is, what you believe is what you know to be real or true. Who you are -- I mean really are -- determines what you really think is true.
That being said, if truth is objective and perception of that truth is subjective, I guess what determines your perception of what is true. Past experiences? Lies (believed or not)? Doubts? Faith?
if you can use the Bible as a cultural historical reference, there is just as much evidence of an Abraham as there is of a Homer or a Joseph Smith. If you're totally dismissing the Bible of any historical worth (which is something even most professional skeptics don't do) then, I guess you got me. If that's the case, how about one for the sake of argument?
I can’t believe (there’s that word again) you would actually quote from Quentin Tarantino’s satire as a way to make your point.
Actually, what is your point? Are you scrounging around trying to come up with some proof that the bible is real, that the biblical god is real, and that Jesus is real by giving us some puffed up esoteric religious gobbledygook you heard in Theology 101?
watcha got againt tarntino? My point was that you don't get to choose what you really believe, only what you want to pretend to believe OR what you want to investigate further: you know, add some experiences, get some more info, keep an open mind. Maybe that is something you get to choose -- keeping an open mind.
is there something in particular, that makes you think these founders were wrong? If you've posted a testimony somewhere answering that, would you respond to it again? thank you.
Keeping an open mind. I like that. That is an excellent idea. Why don't most people who profess Christianity do that?
Keep that open mind as you read, I mean really read, the bible. Keep an open mind as you explore the reality behind those historical figures you mentioned, Jesus, Moses and Abraham. See if they stand up under closer scrutiny. My guess, like most of us on this website, you'll find that they don't. Please check out the information J. C. Samuelson suggested.
what happens when you experience things that may verify?
I agree what is true and what is believed are not the same. What I was getting at was that who we are will determine what we really believe.
I really wanted to believe in Santa as a kid, but I eventually had to admit it wasn't true and that I really never believed. Nothing in me let me accept as true. I really want to believe God is real, but a lot of times I don't. However, in honest, almost depressed introspection, I find something in me that says "you know what, it might be." Is that "something" faith? I don't know, but whatever it is, it is a part of who I am and I can't just ignore it because doubt runs in my head
I would also like to see historical evidence of Jesus, apart from the writings of Josephus.
Also, I do think the bible has SOME historical data in it (i.e. cities, battles, etc.). However, I doubt the cast was real. The bible is no more a work of non-fiction than "The DaVinci Code". This book contained many known cities, works of art, organizations, etc., but it is not REAL! I think that this is your major flaw. Just because a book has some sprinkles of reality, does not make the entire book "true".
However, in honest, almost depressed introspection, I find something in me that says "you know what, it might be."
Oh boy, the little scared child has emerged! What if this "powerful, mean deity is right and I dissed him, I will burn for all eternity!
actually, that is a good question. that is not how I would classify the "something" I found inside, but it's funny you mention that. Out of the blue, like never before, something like what you described got my attention for a second. Something like a fear hit me. Maybe I'm nuts, i don't know. But for the first time, like a heavyness, nothing else mattered in that two seconds. Maybe a flash of faith.
I meant to say add that this happened on the way here tonight.
A mean,vengeful non-all loving deity is not worthy of worship! That is, if he truely exist, which I do not believe.
That's the thing-- it wasn't fear. I bought the whole fundie enchilada thing, too, but it was in times of courage and giving up the act that I found this thing inside. It was courage to say, "maybe your not real God, and I'm not playing it safe right now. You have to show me now for me to believe. Take it to a real level or I just can't do it anymore" I felt secure in waiting, but not in a 'just to be safe thing'
It's pretty cool.
freeman
I'm not so sure about the mean vengeful thing. If the God-man relationship is really a father-child kind of thing, what a child may see as mean and unfair, a father (a good one anyway) may really be waiting patiently and discipling and after several attempts to add everyone to his family who is willing, close the door. I don't know, kind of lame, but there seems to be some kind of sense to it. I don't think I EVER believed in the kind of god you're describing
To my knowledge, scholars accept I and II Peter as authored by the apostle Peter. As far as the validity to their cause? If part of their cause involves being honest, and unlike suicide bombers who may be promised a greater position or reward as a martyr, did not gain anything they wouldn't get had they not been martyred ...
Do you have any children? Well, I do and there is not a single thing that they could do that I would turn my back on them FOREVER! The god of the bible will turn his back on anyone who displeases him in the least. I would call him an abusive father!
Have you always thought God was like that? No wonder you left. I've never known him (if I ever really have known him) like that. Whoever sold you that crap needs a but woopin'.
great chatting with you all. I must end my obviously boring day as it is late in the midwest and the Panera is about ready to kick me out. If you're ever interested in a good read about Christians who break from the fundie crap and do some pretty surprising things, "Blue Like Jazz" by ? I'll check back tomorrow for any responses, but if this is the last we talk, take care.
And if the kids refuse to come, then they'll be tortured forever in the loving bowels of hell.
Great example of a dad.
Oh, try the Asiago bagels before you leave, They are GREAT!
Buh-bye!
The dogma of christianity states that humanity is pre-destined with sin, therefore, people don't have "choices". See genesis, and original sin.
Nehemiah: "...to stay out"
God omnisciently knew humanity would "stay out", therefore, god must be pleased with the plan.
Nehemiah: "while it seems sunny,..."
For many, life is sunny, well, except for those moments when people who proclaim themselves god authorities state that everyone that doesn't believe in their words, are going to hell, or some place of torture.
Nehemiah: "...they seem like the people of Noah's day who would rather play their way than come in."
We are only as good as your god allows, per christianity... in short, your god omnisciently knew he created a sinful adam and eve, and then knew he would destroy their offspring, his own creation. What of the people that were never allowed the chance to see Noah or his boat? Did god murder them along with all the animals, and everyone else, who just happened to be on the planet at the time? Perhaps, your god is okay with collateral damage, as a moral standard.
Nehemiah: "Hard to blame the dad in that case."
Especially, since dad doesn't exist in the physical realm, its probably more pertinent to state... "it's hard to blame someone's father figure mental image"... makes one wonder if they weren't taught they were lacking something in their life, that required them to create such an image.
I suppose I should answer the big question: Do I believe that Jesus exists?
To answer honestly: I don't know.
I am a spiritual person. That is, I do believe in other states of existance beyond the physical, I believe in a higher conciousness or state of being (God). Now, does Jesus exist as a spiritual being? I don't know. It's possible, and I lean towards it, but I don't know what Jesus is if he exists in the spiritual.
I do believe that there was a historial man whom the modern day Jesus is based around, but I am of the idea that this man was a man who believed that the end of the world was going to come within 100 years, and that he was supposed to play an important part in the event. He mostly went around telling people to get right with God, becuase the world was going to end. This man was eventually killed, unknown and ignored by the Romans.
Beyond that, everything is pure speculation. Did this man do miracles? I don't know. Some of these miracles have been done by other ancient religious figures (coming back from the dead for example, and being the savior of the world). Does the essence of this man continue to exist in another realm of being? I don't know.
I suppose I addressed my article to the idol Jesus found in the bible. That is, it's directed to the man found in the christian religion who has become an idol who is worshipped, much like the golden calf from the Moses story (and I don't know if that's a true historical event or not, or if it's a mix of history and fiction). It's possible that Jesus, if he does exist in one way or another, is quite different from the Jesus found in the bible. But again, I have to say that I don't know if he does or not.
So at the moment, I do not know where I stand on Jesus. It's possible that his essence might exist in another, undiscovered plane of existance, or it's possible that his atoms are worm food that have been recycled endlessly over the past two thousand years or so. I just do not know.
For now, I am open to the idea that if a spiritual Jesus does exist, then he does. Otherwise, I now remain neutral to this figure.
I did not come to faith by a "hmm, that makes some good sense" epiphany about the Bible. To be honest, whatever I thought I understood about the Bible was confusing and barely believable if at all. But something happened to me--something in me said, I believe Jesus is God, is here, is really loving me. Not just a passing thought, but an overwhelming assurance that it's true. Lies and truth became easily discernable, and the Bible read very understandable. Some days, I doubt, some I have no way of saying or defending any of what I believe to anyone. Some days I say none of it is true, but I'm left knowing that something inside had changed. By the by, joy and peace and an ability to really love are the calling card of Jesus. If someone sold you on fear of hell, insecurity about yourself, or promises of prosperity, feel free to be an ex-christian of that kind of Christianity. Real stuff? ask for proof and wait. You might be surprised.
Yeah, I am.......I'm still looking for the evidence that supports your "belief"....but yet, even admittedly, you still don't have any. It's no problem, though---there's freedom of religion/non-religion here in the "melting pot". Just keep believing as you wish----like a Muslim will "just believe"; like a scientologist will "just believe"; like a headhunter will "just believe". Just "believe", until you're brimming with Jesus' love.
I personally think you are confusing "hope" with "belief"..but that's just my opinion. You can hope your life away, thinking that you'll win the American Family Publisher's sweepstakes one day...but you can't "believe" that you've won, until Ed McMahon actually shows up at your door.
Letter to John Adams, August 15, 1820
"To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say the human soul, angels, God are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no God, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise; but I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialsim, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But a heresy it certainly is. Jesus told us indeed that "God" is a spirit, but he has not defined what a spirit is, nor said that it is not matter. And the ancient fathers generally, if not universally held it to be matter: light and thin indeed, an etherial gas; but still matter."
The first question, any believer should attempt to find for their own belief system, is whether or not their "god", or "spirit", is a material or an immaterial form. If immaterial, and not of this natural reality, then, they are just as atheist to the original believers as any modern day ateist. I know... its a hard stretch for the ignorant, but, there is hope in a proper education.
Uh, Bush is still the President, the only good news in bringing a balance, is at least some oversight will now be realized, where there didn't appear to be any for a period of time.
What "will" be different, during these few years of oversight, which I welcome, is the polarization of the religious group being pandered to. There are as many christian leftist followers, as there are christian right wing followers. Still, religion on the left, or on the right... is still religion and belief in some invisible sky daddy.
Self acceptance as a gay individual, doesn't need to involve itself with either politics or religion. Wanting ones' voice heard, so that they receive legal protection, etc., need their voice heard by politicians. This requires no religious affiliation.
If someone wants to find a group of people that they can commune with because they have a lot in common, they do not have to seek religious affiliation. If they do, the sky daddy is a farse, and they just need to understand the "true" reason they are communing with others... if only, because these others have a lot in common.
Personally, I see it a failure in society when a person has to concede to religion, in order to find social suport and acceptance.
I think this posting is a joke, but okay, let’s try this…
Explain in detail what happened in Joshua 10:12-14.
Mind you, this isn’t the only question I have about your holy book but it will do for starters.
I am not looking for a fight, just a logical and sound explanation. And I truly hope your explanation doesn’t boil down to “God Said it, I believe it, That settles it!” Thanks.
And parrots.
>>
OK, great. So, God told you directly that he made the earth? Are we clear? Is this true? -Wes
>>
Do you communicate with God directly? Is this how you know God made the earth and everything in it?? Direct answers, please. -Wes.
>>
That's great. I want to know how you know that God created the earth? How do you know this? I am not playing around! It's terribly important to me!! -Wes
You just posted “but understand some of the old testament is what others went though so that we may learn”. Yet at 10:28 PM you wrote “THEY ARE ONLY STORYS IN THE PASSED TRY THE NEW TESTAMENT THIS IS ARE TIME SILLY”. So do we learn from the Old Testament, or ignore it?
….and when you answer Wes’ question, since you DO hear from God, tell us, what kind of voice does God have? Bass, tenor, baritone? What language does the omnipotent one speak? Aramaic, Greek, Latin, English, Ebonics? Does God use contractions? Does that being speak like you spell, or do they use vocal spell check first?
We'd really like to know.
Hmmmmmmm…………
Funny, He must be too busy being a smartass god with you God is in Man….
Or maybe, just maybe…you are making it all up.
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No, I am sure it's just the host of this program I am watching on the Discovery Channel right now. Sorry. Besides, if he's there, how is he talking to me HERE? Creepy.. -Wes.
Actually, I think God is in Man had an extra helping of Psilocybin mushrooms tonight!
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Did you get anything yet? :-) -Wes.
Is that voice a baritone, a tenor or bass, even at a whisper?
Is what you hear in English? If so, is it British, American, Canadian or Australian accented English?
Does that being use contractions when they speak to you? Seriously!
No, the mike was on for 8 minutes and there was nothing. Well, I did pick up the sound of my cat, who is sitting about 2 feet away, purring!
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I do. Every day. What??!? Is God hiding in my bed?? Aauugh!! I'm sleeping in the car! -Wes.
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Dang. I thought for SURE we were all gonna get real proof this time. Poop. My hopes were sooo high. -Wes.
I'd swear you are trying to avoid Wes' power factor question because you just don't know and there is no god to answer it for you. Otherwise you'd have given the answer long ago. But all you can do is make up a fairy tale about asking god, in the still of the night, to speak softly to our heart. Maybe I wasn't in biology class that day, but I missed the part where my heart grew ears, or developed any auditory capabilities.
I still want to know what god's voice sounds like. Saying a whisper takes into account the volume, not the timbor or style. And what about god's accent?
I even ran the recording through a compressor, a d-esser and boosted the volume...and there is nothing.
No surprise. God is a "no show".
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Look - hissy fits aside, all I wanted to know is how YOU know you are talking to God. Look - I was a Christian for over twenty five years, I have never EVER heard him speak to me, even after years of desperate pleading, crying, sobbing, etc, etc. I am sure many of us here have gone through exactly the same thing as I have and guess what? God failed that test many, many times, for all of us. Why not read some of the ex-testimonies here? We've given up on a false hope. There's no point in listening to something that is not ever going to SPEAK. -Wes.
....Speak! Speak god speak!
HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA.........
That was good! Good joke God is in Man. I didn't realize you were trying to be funny......
LMAO!!!!
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Fine. Then you tell me - what is a valid question that I might ask?? Give me an example of a valid question that would not enrage your almighty god?? Waiting... -Wes.
I even ran the recording through a compressor, a d-esser and boosted the volume...and there is nothing.
No surprise. God is a "no show".
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Drat. I wanted to broadcast it here on my LPFM station. I thought I might be able to convert a few thousand people in one shot!! -Wes.
I think we just experienced the "God is in Man Acid Koolaid Test"!
How in the HELL does god talk to an organ that pumps blood? And how does that organ understand when it has no capacity to hear or process information? Please give me the details of your obvious medical background when you get a chance.
Good riddan....er...good night.
The current time is 11:52 p.m. Central Standard Time.
Ask your god what object I am holding in my right hand Right Now. Be very specific as to the object materials, colour, size, etc.
If you fail to answer correctly you reveal yourself to be either a False Prophet™ or a person in need of psychiatric intervention.
Or you could just STFU and go away.
....What is the object in Astreja's right hand? you have 60 seconds...GO!
...More tomorrow. G'nite.
I declare you a false prophet, and your god a fiction.
Let's rock!
Please don't post on this site when you are drunk.
Thanks.
Thanks.
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I don't wish to carry on a conversation with you. "Sorry, the number you have dialed..." -Wes.
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