Wagner-Modified Houts Questionnaire
It's been awhile since I was part of the Assemblies of God, and it appears they are getting more odd year by year. I suppose it is only natural that they develop increasingly weird programs, if for no other reason, than to stave off the boredom of banging the same old drum week after week.
In a vain attempt to reduce the mechanics of Christian service into something that ignorant parishioners can latch onto, the big book of lies (BiBLe) has been relegated to second place in favor of, shall we call it: "the scientific method?"
Well, there is no science in it, but it does make for some interesting reading.
Sure glad I got out when I did!
Here is a sample from the introduction:
You can download and read the whole enchilada here: HOUTS is a HOOT!
It's good to know what we've escaped from.
A hearty thanks to Darren Mayfield for finding and sending the Hout's Hoot in to us.
In a vain attempt to reduce the mechanics of Christian service into something that ignorant parishioners can latch onto, the big book of lies (BiBLe) has been relegated to second place in favor of, shall we call it: "the scientific method?"
Well, there is no science in it, but it does make for some interesting reading.
Sure glad I got out when I did!
Here is a sample from the introduction:
GREETINGS! You are about to become involved in an exciting spiritual exercise. God has given you one or more spiritual gifts if you are a Christian, and discovering that gift or gifts will be a thrilling experience. You will be asked to answer the 125 questions found in the "Wagner-Modified Houts Questionnaire."
This spiritual gifts discovery instrument was originally suggested by Dr. Richard F. Houts, a professor in the North American Baptist Theological Seminary, in 1976. Subsequently it has been modified by C. Peter Wagner of the Charles E. Fuller Institute of Evangelism and Church Growth., and keyed in to his classic book, Your Spiritual Gifts Can Help Your Church Grow, now the best selling book in the field of spiritual gifts.
The copy you have in your hand is the fifth edition and the first complete revision of the original published version. Thousands and thousands of believers have been blessed by taking the Modified Houts Questionnaire. Constant feedback from them has enabled us to refine it to the point where it will give you a fairly accurate picture of what kind of ministry God expects you to be carrying out in your group of believers.
You can download and read the whole enchilada here: HOUTS is a HOOT!
It's good to know what we've escaped from.
A hearty thanks to Darren Mayfield for finding and sending the Hout's Hoot in to us.
Comments
I would never have sensed you were a teacher either.
If god can be "proved over and over" and you can back it up with facts, PLEASE, don't leave us in suspense.
If you have the key, open the door for us! Show us the evidence......
.....unless.....
.....you mean it's all in the bible.
If you have other evidence, well, that is why we are here, to learn.
(Maybe I shouldn't encourage feeding the trolls.)
It would take up a lot of space to print all of her responses so I will only quote one paragraph below. Needless to say, she does NOT have anything to show that god has been "proved over and over" and there is no evidence that she can "back up to anyone with facts", which I had told her in my very first e-mail that I was concerned she would not be able to do. Here is the most telling paragraph in all the e-mails she sent to me: "What evidence did you think I could have other than my own life, the things I have seen, the transforming power of Christ in my life, in changing my family, in answering my prayers always, sometimes immediately in tangible ways, plus the evidence that has existed for centuries, the life of Christ, the truth of the Scriptures, the patterns in nature, not to mention the whole universe and the impossibilities that it could have happened by chance..."
I think it is telling that christians who come to this website make claims that they KNOW they can't back up, but that doesn't stop them. They only want to evangelize. They see their mission as dragging the "lost sheep" back, by any means necessary, including being dishonest. Surprisingly, Christiana would admit to things I wrote about, and even understood them. But she consistenly fell back on her "belief" as a way to defend her actions and to gloss over any inconsistencies I pointed out in the bible. She would say there are no inconsistencies yet she offered no answers to many of the questions I asked her, except to excuse god's actions because god was not harsh, he was "just".
I put too much "faith" in her initial response - that she would actually present the proof and/or evidence she was so sure about in her first post. It's almost funny how christians refuse to do as they are commanded in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)..."Prove all things."
God is real, He has been proved over and over, and there are some people out there, like me who know what they believe, why and can back that up to anyone with facts, and living testimony. Not everyone is following blindly.
Well I am soo disappointed in Christian, we waited ever so patiently for her to return with her evidence only to return with,
12/19/2006 4:18 PM
"I am sorry to let anyone down, I may have gotten a little ambitious with my wording."
Now I know without a doubt, that people who believe in imaginary beings are shallow, weak minded and perverse.
God is real, He has been proved over and over, and there are some people out there, like me who know what they believe, why and can back that up to anyone with facts, and living testimony. Not everyone is following blindly.
Well I am soo disappointed in Christian, we waited ever so patiently for her to return with her evidence only to return with,
12/19/2006 4:18 PM
"I am sorry to let anyone down, I may have gotten a little ambitious with my wording."
Now I know without a doubt, that people who believe in imaginary beings are shallow, weak minded and perverse.
I would very much like to convey several thoughts to you; a response would be appreciated. First, by boldly proclaiming that you possess evidence of god's existence (with the clear implication that it would be compelling to others) then backing off the moment you are asked to produce it, you have simply strengthened the stereotype of the brash Christian visitor here. We see the same thing time and again at this site; bold assertions with absolutely nothing to support them. Can you see why many of us simply roll our eyes (or worse) when such claims are made? Let me offer an analogy. Imagine a patent clerk who examines a dozen claims for perpetual motion machines every day, each one being touted as revolutionary, yet each one inevitably failing to meet the most basic requirement for patentability--exhibiting a working prototype. Can you blame the clerk for being dismissive when such claims cross his desk?
Second, I'd like for you to acknowledge that you have only two options with regard to discussing your beliefs: you must either 1) produce credible evidence and/or compelling arguments for the truth of your beliefs, or 2) accept that others can legitimately reject your beliefs as irrational. Since it appears that you are in no position to do the former, will you be so kind as to grant us privilege of saying "No thank you" to your particular belief system?
Have a nice day.
i was reading thru some of the previous comments concerning the 'validity' of the Bible as well as Jesus Christ. it seams as though many of you have questions concerning proof. im not exactly sure where to start with this. at one point in my life, i also questioned the 'scientific' aspects of Jesus and the Bible. the first place i started to research was the Bible itself. once i realized that the Bible is not some mystical book of myths and legends but rather an actual history book, that sparked my interest to learn more. i then began to read the new testament (these are the accounts of what happened durring the life of Jesus and what He taught) and began to understand a little more. you have to keep in mind, the earliest eye-witness accounts of Jesus can be dated to within 5 years of Jesus's crucifixion. these eye-witness accounts makes the Bible a pretty reliable history book. also, keep in mind, that approxiamtely 400 years passed before anyone wrote a 'biography' on Alexander the Great and this information isnt questioned. if the Bible doesnt meet your requirements for proof, try reading 'a case for Christ' and 'the case for a creator' by lee strobel. i could keep going on right now, but ill let y'll ponder this for a bit.
thanks
brawny
Another note at the worst if I am wrong then what is the worst that could happen I lived a decent life and treated people with kindness and compassion and tried my best not to be one with the world. In your worst case scenario if you are wrong you would spend eternity in hell... that is not even worth thinking of in your opinion as you believe there is no hell and it is only the here and now and no afterlife whatsoever. I pray that each of you finds it in your heart to find Christ, and if not whoa be unto you if I am right and I will enjoy eternity with my so called fanciful nonexistent God. Since most likely I have not peaked anyone's interest in my false God in your opinion than to you i shall pray for and for those who do believe or who are truly curios as to what my God has done, is doing, and will continue to do i exhort you to keep up the good fight and i will do my best to strive to pray for all of humanity.
Versus:
"I pray that each of you finds it in your heart to find Christ, and if not whoa be unto you if I am right..."
You *do* realize, you sanctimonious @sshole, that you just answered your own question?
Thank you for replying to this jack@ss. I referred to his "what is so wrong with Christians?" statement in another article, but couldn't remember on which thread I'd read his stupid comment.
Now, I will tell him. (Not that it will do any good. But I'll feel better!)
Right - you aren't holding a gun to our heads; you're merely threatening us with eternal damnation.
Fucking moron.
The Bible did, the inspired word of God!
If you don't believe in God then more then likely you don't believe His
word that has survived all these years!!
Don't look now, but our world is getting much worse rather then "better",
If you only have your self to depend on, and you can't make your life or
lives of people you love any better where do you turn then?
I have been there, I tried everything, but a most loving God was the only answer!
Ask yourself are you truly happy with the life you have chosen?
If not then perhaps somthing is missing?
JL
"The Bible did, the inspired word of God!"
Unsupported assertion: No credible evidence that your god exists.
"Don't look now, but our world is getting much worse rather then "better"..."
Christianity has had nearly 1700 years to make the world a better place. It has failed miserably.
"If you only have your self to depend on, and you can't make your life or lives of people you love any better where do you turn then?"
I do not depend solely on Myself; but even if I did, I certainly wouldn't turn to your imaginary friend for help. It couldn't even manage two humans and a Talking Snake™ in a garden, for crying out loud. And then it tried mass murder in a vain attempt to get rid of those evil, evil humans. Tried killing itself, too, but *that* didn't work; hence the book of Revelation, which is essentially a revenge fantasy on crack.
"I have been there, I tried everything, but a most loving God was the only answer!"
Well, since we here at EX-Christian dot net *have* found other perfectly adequate answers to our problems, I think that reflects more on your problem-solving methodology than on our lack of belief.
May peace and reason find you.
Sic em girls! grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
XPD
Or a Sarah Palin or one of her fellow wingnuts.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/9/111512/684
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/10/10638/489
http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2009/07/all-in-the-family-is-this-politics-or-a-cult/
i was reading thru some of the previous comments concerning the 'validity' of the Bible as well as Jesus Christ. it seams as though many of you have questions concerning proof. im not exactly sure where to start with this. at one point in my life, i also questioned the 'scientific' aspects of Jesus and the Bible. the first place i started to research was the Bible itself. once i realized that the Bible is not some mystical book of myths and legends but rather an actual history book, that sparked my interest to learn more. i then began to read the new testament (these are the accounts of what happened durring the life of Jesus and what He taught) and began to understand a little more. you have to keep in mind, the earliest eye-witness accounts of Jesus can be dated to within 5 years of Jesus's crucifixion. these eye-witness accounts makes the Bible a pretty reliable history book. also, keep in mind, that approxiamtely 400 years passed before anyone wrote a 'biography' on Alexander the Great and this information isnt questioned. if the Bible doesnt meet your requirements for proof, try reading 'a case for Christ' and 'the case for a creator' by lee strobel. i could keep going on right now, but ill let y'll ponder this for a bit.
thanks
brawny
I would very much like to convey several thoughts to you; a response would be appreciated. First, by boldly proclaiming that you possess evidence of god's existence (with the clear implication that it would be compelling to others) then backing off the moment you are asked to produce it, you have simply strengthened the stereotype of the brash Christian visitor here. We see the same thing time and again at this site; bold assertions with absolutely nothing to support them. Can you see why many of us simply roll our eyes (or worse) when such claims are made? Let me offer an analogy. Imagine a patent clerk who examines a dozen claims for perpetual motion machines every day, each one being touted as revolutionary, yet each one inevitably failing to meet the most basic requirement for patentability--exhibiting a working prototype. Can you blame the clerk for being dismissive when such claims cross his desk?
Second, I'd like for you to acknowledge that you have only two options with regard to discussing your beliefs: you must either 1) produce credible evidence and/or compelling arguments for the truth of your beliefs, or 2) accept that others can legitimately reject your beliefs as irrational. Since it appears that you are in no position to do the former, will you be so kind as to grant us privilege of saying "No thank you" to your particular belief system?
Have a nice day.
God is real, He has been proved over and over, and there are some people out there, like me who know what they believe, why and can back that up to anyone with facts, and living testimony. Not everyone is following blindly.
Well I am soo disappointed in Christian, we waited ever so patiently for her to return with her evidence only to return with,
12/19/2006 4:18 PM
"I am sorry to let anyone down, I may have gotten a little ambitious with my wording."
Now I know without a doubt, that people who believe in imaginary beings are shallow, weak minded and perverse.
God is real, He has been proved over and over, and there are some people out there, like me who know what they believe, why and can back that up to anyone with facts, and living testimony. Not everyone is following blindly.
Well I am soo disappointed in Christian, we waited ever so patiently for her to return with her evidence only to return with,
12/19/2006 4:18 PM
"I am sorry to let anyone down, I may have gotten a little ambitious with my wording."
Now I know without a doubt, that people who believe in imaginary beings are shallow, weak minded and perverse.
God is real, He has been proved over and over, and there are some people out there, like me who know what they believe, why and can back that up to anyone with facts, and living testimony. Not everyone is following blindly.
Well I am soo disappointed in Christian, we waited ever so patiently for her to return with her evidence only to return with,
12/19/2006 4:18 PM
"I am sorry to let anyone down, I may have gotten a little ambitious with my wording."
Now I know without a doubt, that people who believe in imaginary beings are shallow, weak minded and perverse.
It would take up a lot of space to print all of her responses so I will only quote one paragraph below. Needless to say, she does NOT have anything to show that god has been "proved over and over" and there is no evidence that she can "back up to anyone with facts", which I had told her in my very first e-mail that I was concerned she would not be able to do. Here is the most telling paragraph in all the e-mails she sent to me: "What evidence did you think I could have other than my own life, the things I have seen, the transforming power of Christ in my life, in changing my family, in answering my prayers always, sometimes immediately in tangible ways, plus the evidence that has existed for centuries, the life of Christ, the truth of the Scriptures, the patterns in nature, not to mention the whole universe and the impossibilities that it could have happened by chance..."
I think it is telling that christians who come to this website make claims that they KNOW they can't back up, but that doesn't stop them. They only want to evangelize. They see their mission as dragging the "lost sheep" back, by any means necessary, including being dishonest. Surprisingly, Christiana would admit to things I wrote about, and even understood them. But she consistenly fell back on her "belief" as a way to defend her actions and to gloss over any inconsistencies I pointed out in the bible. She would say there are no inconsistencies yet she offered no answers to many of the questions I asked her, except to excuse god's actions because god was not harsh, he was "just".
I put too much "faith" in her initial response - that she would actually present the proof and/or evidence she was so sure about in her first post. It's almost funny how christians refuse to do as they are commanded in 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)..."Prove all things."
(Maybe I shouldn't encourage feeding the trolls.)
If god can be "proved over and over" and you can back it up with facts, PLEASE, don't leave us in suspense.
If you have the key, open the door for us! Show us the evidence......
.....unless.....
.....you mean it's all in the bible.
If you have other evidence, well, that is why we are here, to learn.
If god can be "proved over and over" and you can back it up with facts, PLEASE, don't leave us in suspense.
If you have the key, open the door for us! Show us the evidence......
.....unless.....
.....you mean it's all in the bible.
If you have other evidence, well, that is why we are here, to learn.
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