4/17/2003                                                                                       View Comments

Religion is Mental Illness

A delusion is defined as a false personal belief based on incorrect inference about external reality and firmly sustained despite of what everyone else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary (DSM-IV, p. 765).

Annotations to Spurzheim's Observations on Insanity:
Religion is another fertile cause of insanity. Mr. Haslam, though he declares it sinful to consider religion as a cause of insanity, adds, however, that he would be ungrateful, did he not avow his obligation to Methodism for its supply of numerous cases. Hence the primitive feelings of religion may be misled and produce insanity; that is what I would contend for, and in that sense religion often leads to insanity.


Most people's religion is what they want to believe, not what they do believe. And very few of them stop to examine its foundations."

Texas mother over the edge because of cult! - Interestingly enough, this is a Christian View.

Glen Milstein , doctoral student from Teacher's College, Columbia University says that Religious faith effects the way you view the mental illness of a relative. To declare that a relative is incurable is a direct challenge to religious faith when it comes to mental illness.

Philosopher Bertrand Russell wrote:

"'Religion is based . . . mainly upon fear . . . fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand . . . . My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race.'"

Christianity Causes Insanity !!??!!

Did I get your attention? I have been doing some personal research to determine if there are any reputable studies available documenting a verifiable link between a belief in Christianity and mental illness. This article is my resulting conclusions and rant on the subject.

I have more than a jaded interest in this topic. Someone very close to me is suffering from severe mental illness and has been for most, if not all of his life. He is now in his 70s and the symptoms of his debilitation are more apparent than they were some 20 years ago when I first met him. Sometime in the early 1960s he felt the call of GOD on his life and became part of the Operation Mobilization missionary organization based in Belgium. He quit his job, packed up his wife and five small children and became a fully committed servant of the Lord using his ability as an automobile mechanic to keep the missionary wheels in Europe rolling.

Interested in raising his family in the fear and admonition of the Lord, he would insist on having daily family devotions which would often last two to three hours. He required his children to memorize whole chapters of the Bible at a time. If they failed to perform as instructed, the kids could expect severe chastisement in the form of screaming tirades with threats of hell and eternal retribution at the hands of an angry God. These "lectures" could go on for hours. He refrained from open physical abuse, but would deny meals as a regular incentive toward "holiness".

He believes that GOD speaks to him in an audible voice. He is convinced that when he needs help with mundane chore that GOD himself intervenes in a similar way as the saints of the Old Testament testify. For instance, once he was faced with some plumbing problems. He had no funds to hire a repairman and lacked the proper knowledge to fix his kitchen sink. He prayed to "Jesus" and was promptly answered by a disembodied voice who stated emphatically, "I AM A PLUMBER." Once he heard that, he was able to fix the leaking sink. He relates other experiences along the same line, which he claims assist him on a regular basis. He also believes his theological understanding is superior to most other people's because of his special relationship with his creator.

He was asked to leave Operation Mobilization after several years of working there. His ability to maintain positive relationships was and is extremely limited. The seemingly slightest provocation could and still can send him into a violent tirade. If the argument he had was with a man, it would be nothing for him to throw the man up against a wall and threaten to kill him. The argument could be about anything, especially religion. Although he would eventually "repent" for his behavior, another episode would follow shortly. The pattern was never broken, so he would be asked to leave one Christian organization or church after another as the years progressed.

Once his children grew up and left home, he would stalk them, trying to find out if they were sinning against GOD in any way. If he found them doing something he believed was inappropriate, he would barge into their place of employment sometime after the observed behavior and make a terrible scene, exclaiming emotionally that GOD was going to splatter their blood all over the wall in his wrath if they did not immediately repent.

Eventually all the Children moved far away. From then on his wife had to endure the full energy of his idiosyncrasies. Recently one of his daughters visited him at his home for the first time in 22 years. She is 43. It went well at first, but while at dinner in a restaurant, he began eating off of her plate, licking her food, hitting her with gospel tracts and then began yelling and screaming in anger for all the patrons to witness.

The poor man is just plain mentally ill. He never did act exactly normal, but now as early stages of senility are becoming apparent, the strange behavior is simply more pronounced.

This is my interest and motivation for exploring the topic at hand.

Regardless of the quotes and story above, I found no verifiable correlation between religious faith and mental illness. What I found was that mental illness is just like any other illness that affects people's lives. Mental illness is somewhat hard to define, because in some ways, all human beings are subject to delusions and fantasies. This is not really a bad thing. Each of us can attest to having wildly vivid and impossible dreams from time to time in our sleep. During the dream, we are sure of the reality of the experience. It is only on waking that the fantasy is dispelled. It is our capacity to imagine things that do not exist that has made modern medicine, technology and our fledgling space program possible. Imagination is the cousin to insanity and the line between the two is often thin.

From what I have been able to discover, such things as having a bad heart, being allergic to cats, being diagnosed with prostate cancer or any other of the untold host of diseases available on earth are no different than having most mental disorders. Diseases or weakness of mind is something people randomly experience, and predicting who will be afflicted is an undeveloped science.

While it may not be a truism that religion drives people mad, it is a truism that religion does not cure madness, any more than it cures lung cancer, heart disease, or poor eyesight. In many ways religion may help restrain some erratic behavior, but in others it probably exacerbates aberrations.

I have done what I can to help my friend overcome a lifetime of mental abuse, cloaked in a shroud of "Christianity." It has taken my friend years to overcome the emotional scars begun in childhood and continued into adulthood. This friend has also completely left behind Christianity. My friend finally realizes that Christianity and religion really had nothing to do with her father's odd behavior. He was and is simply "not right." Accepting this fact has been the greatest of healing. Accepting this fact has also tolled the final death knell to her "faith". Realizing that her father was mentally ill all those years with neither the "Church" or the "Holy Spirit" being able to cure him or even properly diagnose him has culminated with her present state as an "ex-Christian".

There is simply no reality to the reported blessings of Christianity.

To conclude, I offer this quote from The National Alliance for the Mentally Ill :

Mental illnesses are disorders of the brain that disrupt a person's thinking, feeling, moods, and ability to relate to others. Just as diabetes is a disorder of the pancreas, mental illnesses are disorders of the brain that often result in a diminished capacity for coping with the ordinary demands of life.

Mental illnesses do not discriminate; they affect people of every age, gender, race, religion, or socioeconomic status. Mental illnesses are not the result of personal weakness, lack of character, or poor upbringing. In the United States, over seven million adults and over five million children and adolescents suffer from a serious, chronic brain disorder. These illnesses have a great impact on society. Four of the top ten leading causes of disability are mental illnesses including major depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and obsessive compulsive disorder, and the estimated cost of mental health care is over $150 billion per year. But far more important is the effect untreated mental illness has on the lives of individuals and their loved ones.

These brain disorders are treatable. As a person with diabetes, takes insulin, most people with serious mental illness need medication to help control symptoms. Supportive counseling, self-help groups, housing, vocational rehabilitation, income assistance and other community services can also provide support and stability, contributing to recovery.

50 comments:

Anonymous said...

Stan: I'm doing reseach on the matter right now, but as far as i can see, it's religious exremism that causes many mental illnesses.

the bible, i believe in proverbs, it says, 'it is not good to be over-righteous, why destroy yourelf, it is not good to be overly-wicked, why die before your time'.

also, in peter, he writes, 'Paul writes things that are hard to understand that ignorant and unstable people distort to their destruction'.

Mary Ellen said...

Religion is a sort of brainwashing that parents use to control children with fear. These superstitious beliefs are dangerous. If you can lead someone to believe in absurdities, you can lead them to commit atrocities, someone once said. Religion is the opiate of the people. You get pie in the sky when you die. Reality is that you die when you die. Religious people can not accept reality so they choose to believe in delusions. It is a survival or defense mechanism for people who can not cope with the real world just like schizophrenics.

Schizophrenics create their own religion/fantasy world to live in. The only difference between religious people and schizophrenics is that religious people share the same delusions and schizophrenics have original delusions. Schizophrenics are just more original and creative than religious people but not any less in touch with reality than the relgious delusionals. They are both living in another reality. It is the same disorder in thinking. No reality testing. No critical thinking. Belief without reason.

Anonymous said...

Mellack says: Interesting, I was hypothesising just this evening that Religion (Born-again Christianity in particular, but any overly-fanatical form of Religionism) was a mental illness, and lo! I find this article :). I had also come to the conclusion that people who cannot cope with Life(tm) embrace Religionism with greater vigour than those with good coping mechanisms.

Whilst the article (and the posts) are correct in the most part, we cannot discount certain ideals just because we cannot quantify them at this time. Don't get me wrong: Religionism in all its forms irritates the crap out of me. I do, however, feel that there is something or somewhere to head off to after we pop our clogs. Logically speaking, it would be a waste to learn all of Life's lessons if it were for naught at the end.

I guess what I want to say is that we should have some mystery to Life without taking it all too seriously. If there is, there is; if there isn't, there isn't. But we must guard against Cynicism, and not discount something just because we cannot shoehorn it into a test tube.

Anonymous said...

My suggestion is that you study the life of Jesus a little more closely. "God uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise." This is an interesting statement considering the oh so wise statements from the previous comments. Thank you for your comments you great and wise masters.

boomSLANG said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

As far as mental illness goes, I don't think religion initiates it. I think it stems from personality disorders caused from a lack of understanding on the part of parents early in life. As the personality disorder becomes more embedded into someone, they become more susceptable to indoctrination. Though indoctrination produces strange behavior, you have to get to the root of the problem (i.e. the personality disorder) to make a difference. It is the personality disorder that makes deconverting someone so extremely difficult.

A. F.

Anonymous said...

No religion is not a mental illness. It is an insult to those of us with REAL mental health issues due to chemicals in out brains, I have OCD an depression and haven't been to church in years so how come I am mentally ill now I don't believe?

Anonymous said...

If I went into my therapist and said I am going to sue who baptised me when I was a baby for my illness I would be locked in the looney bin!

Anonymous said...

after all God did to u.. u r insulting him... what a shame!

EMW said...

Stan,

It's just too bad that religion is such a socially acceptable mental illness!

I'm an "ex" who called myself Christian for 15 years. I was looking for something magic and other-worldly to make my life more interesting, for lack of any better explanation. This was at the height of the "Satanic Panic" that was going on. We had one guy where I worked who dabbled with auras and spells. He wasn't well-liked. One of the ladies in our group started getting sick. It popped into my head that the guy was "hexing" her, so I joined a local Pentecostal church and told them about it. They got really into it, falling on the floor, speaking in tongues, etc. They called me every day after work to find out what was going on, and by chance, the guy happened to leave and move on to a better-paying job. The woman went on some medication and started feeling better. But of course, the holy rollers in this church thought it was divine intervention, and I was suggestible and believed it too.

Now, there are certainly some places where you can tell a story like that and they'll be skeptical. But if I'd gone to President Bush, for example, with that story, he'd probably have encouraged me. That's scary! That people with significant influence can give total approval to what would otherwise be perceived as delusion! But it's all too common. Where's the line between "fringe" cases and stuff that goes on every day, with no one batting an eyelash?

BTW, what got me out of Christianity once and for all was the realization that nothing good (other than becoming a mom) happened to me during those 15 years, because I had sat passively by, waiting for "God" to give me blessings. I abdicated responsibility for anything in my life, and finally saw what kind of price I was paying for that. The withdrawal wasn't "cold turkey." it took place over a few years. But now I proudly call myself a Humanist. I attend a Unitarian-Universalist church, where I am surrounded by people who worship only reason. Outside the church, however, I have relatives and co-workers who are still wrapped up in this weird fairy tale, and I really feel sorry for them. What a world we live in.

Shawnee said...

Perhaps someone could explain to me what a mental illness is, and why it's bad, now that we can diagnose most of the worlds population as being mentaly ill. Is it a socialy unacceptable behavior, why is that wrong or bad, and what is the "good standard" of behavior or reason that we seem to be encouraging people toward. And what is reason, who made it God, or the ground of truth? after all if we are mearly a complex of biochemical processes'brought about by chance acting upon preexistant material, at what point has right or wrong, logical or illogical become a valid classification in a world with no purpose. If I use moral distinctions of right and wrong, true or false, am I not borrowing that whole idea from religion? Somthing is or is not, it cannot be true or logical without borrowing from the mental illness of the "created purpose".

Anonymous said...

religon IS the mental disorder, just lock all the church doors on sunday and see how much better the world is on monday.

Anonymous said...

mary ellen you're completely right!!!!

Anonymous said...

ONLY A FOOL WOULD BELEIVE IT AND THIS WORLD IS FULL OF FOOLS. THEY ARE REALLY SICK TO BELEIVE THIS. THEY ARE SICK SICK SICK. AND THEY ARE DISGUSTING. THEY JUST WANT TO SHOW TO THE REST OF US . TO HOW DUMD THEY ARE. IT MAKES IT EASY TO AVOID THEM THEN

webmdave said...

One of your premises in your definition of delusional is that the belief held goes against
a) what everyone else says, and
b) is proven to be false

Well,
a) A third of the world self-defines as Christian, many more as theists, and
b) It is impossible to PROVE that God does not exist.

Come on, at least TRY.......

webmdave said...

Gbouras1,

Before you are logically deconstructed and told that the default analytic position in conjecture is un-proof, and that the "burden-of-proof" is "always" held by the individual conjecturing a propositional conclusion - let me suggest that many are not swayed by the bandwagon effect either.

A democratic voting process, promises to maximize voter representation, not truth – come on, are you serious?

Peace
D8

webmdave said...

Gbouras, one need not prove Christianity false in order to find it delusional. One need only find it morally reprehensible and silly. I mean, come on, now: People coming back from the dead? That doesn't happen in the real world, so why should we assume that it ever happened?

webmdave said...

belief is irrational by definitiion. a person who believes he is rational is not a problem. it is the zealot who insists that his belief is the only correct belief and insists that others adhere to his belief. further, the danger from the zealot is the insistence that his mental isorder is rational. religion is simply a mental disorder. it need not be criminalized, but it must be made a warning to rational people regardless of their beliefs that the more fervent its expression the more danger it presents.

webmdave said...

I think in order to logically answer the question we must first collectively agree what reality means to us presently. Not speculation but simply what we can prove in a physical tangible sense today. The problem with ancient religion is that it tried to answer questions in the past without the use of science. Now that we are more advanced as a species we are able to use science to answer some of the ancient mysteries. Unfortunately some of us are still using this primitive belief system which conflicts with our current developments in science. Much of what people read in ancient text is just a primitive attempt at problem solving but does not apply to our current society. It seems kind of silly that people would want to stay ignorant but old habits die hard I guess.

webmdave said...

i went into trance state in 1998 and it was all about my broken childood and then jesus and over the next few years my health became more and more broken, strange seancations in my head, i tried going to church but that just added to my mental health problems i got more and more depressed, in 2004 i was diagnosed suffering from bi polar with some schizoid delusions voices ect, when i turned to the church i was told i had a demonic possession so what happed to people with scizophrenia centries ago they were burnt at the stake ect, all i can say is thank god for science.

webmdave said...

When I was a child I was afraid of ghosts and monsters but as I got older I got used to the idea that they don't exist and now I don't fear these things anymore. Likewise as our civilization becomes more psychologically and technically advanced we see less incredible miracles taking place - walking on water, parting seas, water into wine, god's voice in burning bushes, coming back from the dead. I wonder why our present civilization doesn't see spiritual beings creating miracles like they did in the bible. I am also wondering why god talked to us a thousands of years ago but hasn't recently. Why can't these spiritual beings return so that we can create an updated bible that everyone on the planet can agree is true and isn't' possibly corrupted by years of translation or interpretation consequently ending religious wars? Also the son of god never returned as prophesied and yet things are ripe for the tribulation. Has god forsaken us or do you think that we or our civilization must be ignorant of science/mental health in order to be spiritually in tune with god?

webmdave said...

Wake up dummy there is no such a thing as a god whether you use capital letters or not when spelling it! Read Richard Dawkin's GOD DELLUSION and get with the program.

webmdave said...

In reply to the suggestion that one should 'study the life of jesus',the bold fact is that there is no 'life of jesus' to study. It is well established that the so-called 'gospels of jesus' are fictional narratives written by groups that were neither eye-witnesses nor alive during the supposed life of this jesus. There is also some good reasons to doubt that this jesus ever existed! It is always curious that these mockers of knowledge never want to be introduced to common every-day facts like those just cited about the fictional jesus!

webmdave said...

No Donnie, you are referring to "Reason", not religion.
You do not have to believe in "what'sisname", to show caring and compassion for your fellow Earth Dweller. It's a big failing of the Bible Basher's to assume you have to be religious to carry out works of charity, ie:, Hello Sir, I understand you are starving , well what I need you to do, is to bind and gag your son and put him on this fire over here, to prove that you love me......statistics prove that you will die anyway, but I need to know you love me". My serious point is though Donnie, please feel free, to show me in which second, of which hour, of which day, of which year, in the last 2010 years....has your god, intervened just once, to save the lives of anyone. To send a verifiable messenger, who has come to give us, caring, advice, direction, or to help us understand global warming, serious illness, religious intolerance, understanding on why in any nation on the planet that 5% of the people, own 95% of the wealth.....that includes religious ones as well as psychotic dictators.
Where is your god Donnie?, where are the Angels when little children are abducted from their parents love, taken away, raped and then left like carcasses of pigs after he has had his way.........the parents, never, ever, Donnie.......never, for the rest of their lives, get over it. Their guts are ripped out forever Donnie. And you assholes, talk about a bloke on a cross........HE HAD A CHOICE DONNIE, LITTLE KIDDIES DON'T!!!,And don't try that "Man has free will, bullshit" The perpetrators do................but the INNOCENT DON'T.
If you god cares for us.........where was he in the HOLOCAUSTS (Russian, Chinese, Jewish, African, Eastern European) of the 20th century.........no burning bushes, no angels, no doves, no voices from the sky, just absence and silence...........doesn't that tell you something Donnie?, like it's total bullshit, total, dangerously, unfunny, empty bullshit, BECAUSE GOD DOESN'T EXIST.....IT'S A FAIRY STORY.

webmdave said...

11th Commandment.
Greater shall they become that useth Spellcheck.
12th Commandment.
When glorifying thy father in thine own head, don't talk bollocks, it pisses other people off.
13th Commandment.
April fooooooooooooooool.

webmdave said...

I think it would be fair to say, that everyone thinks that "something" obviously started things in motion to create the galaxies, universes and eventually "us". But..........a bloke on a donkey?, nope!, another bloke who had visions in a tent who had a proclivity for young girls, nope!.... and yet another one that was asked to put his own son on a fire, er...............get real, think of the maths and science involved. "Blessed are the peacemaker's", well that really explains everything about gravity, cancer research and sunspot activity, doesn't it?. Apart from mild social interraction, there is nothing in the bible that helps us have the slightest, most basic understanding of our world, universe or our bodies, the reason why..............because they were ignorant, stupid, desert nomads, who had ripped off the complete "ish" from the story of Horus, to make themselves a "little" empire, where they hope to benefit from other peoples ignorance and fear.........bloody well worked didn't it???????.
"Jesus wants me for a sunbeam".....but he didn't say that a sunbeam was a light diffraction through our upper atmosphere, that can also be bent by the suns own magnetic field, to be in two places at once, (see Einstein, not Isiah......he knew sod all).

webmdave said...

Donnie: "If religion is a mental illness explain to me if i am mental."

Okay! (chalks Her hands, because She just *knows* she's going to need the Clue-By-Four™ with this one...)

"I love in a way that no one can..."

*BOP* Unsupported assertion, and attempted mindreading. You are deluded if you think you know other individuals' capacity for love.

"i don't care about anything that is done... i am willing to sacrifice everything, even my own life in order to get the message that God tells me out."

*BONK* Diagnosis: You are deluded into thinking you're talking to someone other that yourself. We here at EX-Christian dot net do not give a rat's @ss about what you think you hear in your head. Your personal experiences are of no use to us. We will accept *only* empirical evidence for the existence of gods.

"So if religion is a mental illness, then so is emotion, and everyone in life is crazy and insane, which makes us all sane, and makes anyone who begs to argue with me an idiot..."

*THWACK* *THUMP* *BASH*(

Donnie, you are mentally ill *and* brainwashed* and a complete and utter @sshole. You are the very epitome of something we do not want to become.

May you lose your faith and never regain it.

webmdave said...

If I went into my therapist and said I am going to sue who baptised me when I was a baby for my illness I would be locked in the looney bin!

webmdave said...

Fuzzwuzz: "I stumbled on this topic."

What's with all the stumbling? Pick up your feet, people!

"...I guess the question we SHOULD be asking, instead of 'Christianity is mental illness', should be: why do the two often happen together?"

I suspect it has a lot to do with being told one is a worthless turd who deserves eternal torture at the hands of a loving god.

webmdave said...

Religion is a sort of brainwashing that parents use to control children with fear. These superstitious beliefs are dangerous. If you can lead someone to believe in absurdities, you can lead them to commit atrocities, someone once said. Religion is the opiate of the people. You get pie in the sky when you die. Reality is that you die when you die. Religious people can not accept reality so they choose to believe in delusions. It is a survival or defense mechanism for people who can not cope with the real world just like schizophrenics.

Schizophrenics create their own religion/fantasy world to live in. The only difference between religious people and schizophrenics is that religious people share the same delusions and schizophrenics have original delusions. Schizophrenics are just more original and creative than religious people but not any less in touch with reality than the relgious delusionals. They are both living in another reality. It is the same disorder in thinking. No reality testing. No critical thinking. Belief without reason.

webmdave said...

Would someone please delete the insulting comments made by the mentally disabled (i.e. the religious) on this comment board?

webmdave said...

Would someone please delete the insulting comments made by the mentally disabled (i.e. the religious) on this comment board?

webmdave said...

Searching for support groups concerning Religion and OCD.

webmdave said...

http://marlenewinell.net

webmdave said...

http://marlenewinell.net

webmdave said...

You're the one who's not using reason and cordiality...

webmdave said...

belief is irrational by definitiion. a person who believes he is rational is not a problem. it is the zealot who insists that his belief is the only correct belief and insists that others adhere to his belief. further, the danger from the zealot is the insistence that his mental isorder is rational. religion is simply a mental disorder. it need not be criminalized, but it must be made a warning to rational people regardless of their beliefs that the more fervent its expression the more danger it presents.

webmdave said...

Does that make you feel good? That you caused his flesh to show? But understand my friend he is covered by the blood. That is what you don't seem to understand. We will not be made perfect until the perfect one returns. For now we must battle, and you cannot battle unless you have the armour of God on. A helmet of salvation, a breast plate of rightuessness, a belt of truth, shoes that prepare the way for the Gosspel, and the sword of the spirit. If you are no longer a christian it is becuase you were defeated by Satan for lack of armour.

webmdave said...

---douchebag.

Yea my point exactly.

Is this what you call not being influenced? I thank my Lord that he has brainwashed me then. To live a life with such evil pouring out of your mouth(keyboard), I most definintly choose not!

webmdave said...

What a shame. Tell me why? What have I done?

webmdave said...

What a shame. Tell me why? What have I done?

webmdave said...

Stan,

It's just too bad that religion is such a socially acceptable mental illness!

I'm an "ex" who called myself Christian for 15 years. I was looking for something magic and other-worldly to make my life more interesting, for lack of any better explanation. This was at the height of the "Satanic Panic" that was going on. We had one guy where I worked who dabbled with auras and spells. He wasn't well-liked. One of the ladies in our group started getting sick. It popped into my head that the guy was "hexing" her, so I joined a local Pentecostal church and told them about it. They got really into it, falling on the floor, speaking in tongues, etc. They called me every day after work to find out what was going on, and by chance, the guy happened to leave and move on to a better-paying job. The woman went on some medication and started feeling better. But of course, the holy rollers in this church thought it was divine intervention, and I was suggestible and believed it too.

Now, there are certainly some places where you can tell a story like that and they'll be skeptical. But if I'd gone to President Bush, for example, with that story, he'd probably have encouraged me. That's scary! That people with significant influence can give total approval to what would otherwise be perceived as delusion! But it's all too common. Where's the line between "fringe" cases and stuff that goes on every day, with no one batting an eyelash?

BTW, what got me out of Christianity once and for all was the realization that nothing good (other than becoming a mom) happened to me during those 15 years, because I had sat passively by, waiting for "God" to give me blessings. I abdicated responsibility for anything in my life, and finally saw what kind of price I was paying for that. The withdrawal wasn't "cold turkey." it took place over a few years. But now I proudly call myself a Humanist. I attend a Unitarian-Universalist church, where I am surrounded by people who worship only reason. Outside the church, however, I have relatives and co-workers who are still wrapped up in this weird fairy tale, and I really feel sorry for them. What a world we live in.

webmdave said...

Donnie the Self-Contradicting:

"I love in a way that no one can, i don't care about anything that is done, i love every person unconditionally..."

Versus:

"...if you dumb stupid apes are to blind and stupid to see this, then i don't know how to help any of you."

'Nuff said.

webmdave said...

Donnie the Self-Contradicting:

"I love in a way that no one can, i don't care about anything that is done, i love every person unconditionally..."

Versus:

"...if you dumb stupid apes are to blind and stupid to see this, then i don't know how to help any of you."

'Nuff said.

webmdave said...

I was questioning something, but now i think i know the answer. If religion is a mental illness explain to me if i am mental. I love in a way that no one can, i don't care about anything that is done, i love every person unconditionally, i have been fucked over by every person that i have ever known, at one point or another, and still i persist, and carry on, but i am willing to sacrifice everything, even my own life in order to get the message that God tells me out. No he doesn't talk to me audibly, but in my head, he is always teling me the "right" thing to do, I am going to relay his message to the masses of this world no matter what the personal cost to me, because in the end, no matter, what wether there is heaven or hell or nothing at all, i die, so what does it matter what i do in this lifetime, and what does it matter what people see, during my life, as long as afterward, they understand that my death, and my entire life, and my message is that God loves them no matter what, wether he exists or not, because everyone needs to be loved, and i am here to let them know how much God loves them. So if feeling emotions is a mental illness, which it very well might be, then i guess everyone is insane, because God is love, because everyone needs love, and God is offering it, and no cost and unrestricted, all you have to do is believe that he is there. So if religion is a mental illness, then so is emotion, and everyone in life is crazy and insane, which makes us all sane, and makes anyone who begs to argue with me an idiot, cause i just told you what the answers of everything are. If you have ever loved, then you have experienced God, because you cannot tangible feel love, and it cannot be seen, but the same way you can feel it, you can feel God. why can people not believe in God, even thought they feel about him, but they can beleive in emotions, that only they can feel, no one has to feel the same way about someone as the other person does. But some people do, and that randomness is what God is, it is what is supposes to fill in the limited understanding of the world around us, for our stupid little human brains, but no we sit here and fight everything, because no one wants to be wrong, and no one can except the responsibility of being right. Well fuck you all, God loves you and he will forgive and take care of every last one of you for ever and ever, wether you like it or not, because you are part of him, wether because everyone is connected to everything, we are all part of something larger, and that is it....... that was the answer, to everything, life included, and if you dumb stupid apes are to blind and stupid to see this, then i don't know how to help any of you.

if you all have questions or comments you can find me at: www.myspace.com/tobias115

Donnie Max Hernandez Jr.

webmdave said...

My brother in Christ, I understand how frustrating it can be when you try to tell non-belivers the truth. But we can be angry but we are to sin not in this anger. Aren't you glad your covered in the blood. And that when God looks at you he see's Christ.

webmdave said...

" Well fuck you all, God loves you and he will forgive and take care of every last one of you for ever and ever, wether you like it or not, because you are part of him,"


ummm.....which god that you're talking about there, Donnie?

webmdave said...

Calling us "apes" won't get us to side with you, douchebag. If you want to come and do any convincing, use reason and cordiality. Otherwise, you're not welcome here.

webmdave said...

"... i love every person unconditionally..."

"Well fuck you all..."

Oh can you feel the love!?!?

webmdave said...

Most people say god is a man and in black america he's a white man. This is total control, when I ask why is god preceived as white, the answer is "god don't see color" also the only heaven that I know is my mothers womb. Now thats fact, not belief.