If God hates homosexuals, then...
By Brother Jeff
I find myself in agreement with Gandhi. Though I don’t believe that he was god, I have nothing in particular against Christ. I do, however, have something against Christians, and it is this -- I hate their willful ignorance and I hate their bigotry and intolerance. I am referring specifically to homosexuality.
I get so tired of hearing about how homosexuality is allegedly a “sin” and an abomination worthy of death and eternal damnation. I get so tired of hearing Christians -- who are supposedly filled the the Holy Spirit and the Love of Jesus -- continually spout hatred and bigotry against homosexuals. I get so tired of their willful ignorance in this area. I have news for Christians -- you have no idea what you are talking about, the opinions of the authors of your Bronze Age Book of Myths be damned.
If you actually, truly knew anything at all about homosexuality, you would know that it is present throughout the animal kingdom, and you would know that it is as natural as heterosexuality is. You would also know that homosexuality may have evolutionary advantages. See the latest issue of Scientific American Mind for the details, if you have any interest in educating yourselves.
Another News Byte for Christians -- there is no such thing as some evil “homosexual agenda” as you imagine, with homosexuals out to destroy America and the traditional family unit. That’s a delusion and a myth that you have been taught to believe in church. Homosexuals, in reality, want nothing more than the same basic rights that heterosexual couples enjoy, and they most certainly should have them. I have personally known several homosexual individuals over the years, and not one of them has been “evil” or “immoral” in any way. They all have, in fact, been fine, upstanding members of society.
There is nothing at all “wrong” with being homosexual just as there is nothing “wrong” with being left-handed. Genetics is key in both. If God hates homosexuals, then he must also hate the left-handed. I am very thankful that my mother raised me to see that those who are different from me are not necessarily “wrong” or “evil”, but just simply different. I see no reason to hate those who are different from me, and that includes homosexuals.
Jesus, by the way, hung out with “sinners” instead of hating them. Christians, don’t you think it’s about time that you did the same? Whenever you express hatred, bigotry, and intolerance, you send the message that that is what your religion stands for, and believe me, we get that message loud and clear! When you start showing love and tolerance and respect for others who differ from you, then perhaps we’ll believe you when you claim that your religion is about love.
Glory!
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. -- Mohandas Gandhi
I find myself in agreement with Gandhi. Though I don’t believe that he was god, I have nothing in particular against Christ. I do, however, have something against Christians, and it is this -- I hate their willful ignorance and I hate their bigotry and intolerance. I am referring specifically to homosexuality.
I get so tired of hearing about how homosexuality is allegedly a “sin” and an abomination worthy of death and eternal damnation. I get so tired of hearing Christians -- who are supposedly filled the the Holy Spirit and the Love of Jesus -- continually spout hatred and bigotry against homosexuals. I get so tired of their willful ignorance in this area. I have news for Christians -- you have no idea what you are talking about, the opinions of the authors of your Bronze Age Book of Myths be damned.
If you actually, truly knew anything at all about homosexuality, you would know that it is present throughout the animal kingdom, and you would know that it is as natural as heterosexuality is. You would also know that homosexuality may have evolutionary advantages. See the latest issue of Scientific American Mind for the details, if you have any interest in educating yourselves.
Another News Byte for Christians -- there is no such thing as some evil “homosexual agenda” as you imagine, with homosexuals out to destroy America and the traditional family unit. That’s a delusion and a myth that you have been taught to believe in church. Homosexuals, in reality, want nothing more than the same basic rights that heterosexual couples enjoy, and they most certainly should have them. I have personally known several homosexual individuals over the years, and not one of them has been “evil” or “immoral” in any way. They all have, in fact, been fine, upstanding members of society.
There is nothing at all “wrong” with being homosexual just as there is nothing “wrong” with being left-handed. Genetics is key in both. If God hates homosexuals, then he must also hate the left-handed. I am very thankful that my mother raised me to see that those who are different from me are not necessarily “wrong” or “evil”, but just simply different. I see no reason to hate those who are different from me, and that includes homosexuals.
Jesus, by the way, hung out with “sinners” instead of hating them. Christians, don’t you think it’s about time that you did the same? Whenever you express hatred, bigotry, and intolerance, you send the message that that is what your religion stands for, and believe me, we get that message loud and clear! When you start showing love and tolerance and respect for others who differ from you, then perhaps we’ll believe you when you claim that your religion is about love.
Glory!
Comments
I agree, but the article is addressed to Christians, and they believe that Jesus is a historical figure, so that's the way I wrote it. Whether Jesus is a myth or not is not relevant here, IMHO.
"I find myself in agreement with Gandhi. Though I don’t believe that he [Jesus] was god."
If you don't believe that Jesus is/was god then you will to agree that Jesus was a liar for reportedly saying "I and the Father are one".
But if Jesus is God, in the context of the Trinity doctrine, then Trinitarians have to evaluate whether Jesus can be thought to be a hypocrite, for teaching humility, forgiveness etc when according to biblical narratives [vide Old Testament] he was merrily killing [committed no less than three genocides]with zest and cruelty. And in the Book of Revelation he is reported to be slaughtering until his robe turned red with the blood of his enemies.
Christians cannot have their cake and eat it, too.
Talk about their God being all-loving is just crap.
"Religion is all lies" - I recall someone saying this. If this does not apply to every religion then it certainly applies to the three major monotheistic religions
This is ExChristian.Net, not "Might go back to Christianity if we just read the right apologetics book dot net".
Until there is physical proof of the existence of a god, the vast majority of us are simply not going to *bother* worrying about it one way or the other.
And if it turns out that the alleged god is the filicidal, genocidal, pestilential maniac described in the Bible... There are more than a few of us who wouldn't worship it anyway.
So do you have anything of substance to say on Brother Jeff's article, or are you just here to flog books?
Bullshit. Non-theism is growing, it is just as American as the non-belief in "Bigfoot", and it is here to stay. In some cases, "death" is simply the only cure for religious memes. So be it. The new generations..i.e..children, and young teens alike, who replace the "dead"(pun intended), are more informed than they ever were, due in part, to the advent of the internet & World Wide Web. At this rate, in a few thousand years, people will(hopefully) scoff at Christianity, the way Christians scoff at Mithraism.
quote continues..."History will prove before long the truth of this contention[between Christianity and Islam]."
No it won't. I promise you, the opposing sides will destroy the earth before that happens. Both beliefs are "faith"-based, and thus, neither are falsifiable. 'See the problem?(rhetorically asked)
I thought that Bible passage was absurd. It made me question my faith.
Now I don't have faith. I am not an atheist. But I do respect atheists. I am a deist. Somehow I still beleive in a higher power...but that's just me. I don't impose my beliefs on others. I don't treat others condescendingly...not at all!
The good part is I am more openminded now than before...when I was brainwashed. To me organized religion is just an opium of society. We can do better without it and we will be better people. Can you imagine? No more wars because of religious differences!
Peace to all!
Danny Tuason
If you don't believe that Jesus is/was god then you will to agree that Jesus was a liar for reportedly saying "I and the Father are one".
Your logical fallacy is showing.
Whether I or other moderns believe in god has nothing to do with Jesus' belief.
If he believed in god, then he wasn't lying to say that he and the father were one.
If he didn't believe in god, then he could have been lying, but then, he might have simply been delusional.
You have evidently misread my post.
I was referring to a statement made by Jeff and the subject is about Jesus.
This has nothing to do with your belief in god.
If you believe in Jesus as god then we can continue with the discussion. If you believe he was only human, then I would have nothing further to say.
Your statement: "If he believed in god, then he wasn't lying to say that he and the father were one" is faulty and a clear indication of your own faulty logic or assumption.
To say: "I believe in God" is one thing but to say: "I am god" is another.
"I and the Father are One" is one of the several claims Jesus allegedly made to his listeners, implying that he is god.
You think Jesus might have been delusional, but you have to remember there are currently billions of people who believe in his divinity. Would you say these people might be delusional, or would you think they are?
Does this seem right to you?
Tolerance does not mean approval. It is easy to tolerate things you are okay with, but a society that only allows stuff it has no particular objection to is in no way tolerant, it is the very definition of bigoted. I have seen enough Christians scream "persecution" at the first sign that someone won't accord them special privileges to know that disrespect of your lifestyle and your choices is not something you accept with equanimity. Time now to do as you would be done by, i.e. shut your mouth, swallow your hate and live and let live.
The "homosexual agenda" you mention looks to be no different to the preaching of Christian groups, though I've yet to be woken up on a Saturday morning by a couple of strangers hoping to convert me to homosexuality (I guess I go to the wrong parties). Why should your brand of indoctrination be any more acceptible than theirs? Personally, I don't think it normal that for and adult to still believe in imaginary friends, are you going to keep your practices and your churches out of my sight so as not to offend me? Didn't think so.
i.e...equivocal, bigoted nonsense. You didn't *choose* to be heterosexual did you? No, of course not. Thus, you are heterosexual by nature, which, in your land of make-believe makes you *PRECISELY* the way your biblegod "created" you.
So, if Xians want to "hate" something, then they should hate the guy who "created" nature, itself. Incidentally, did you know that some species of animals have same-sex partners? Yes, it's true!
So, next time you're at the zoo and see two male giraffes "gettin' it on", let's be sure to love them, despite that they "sin" against Gawd!!!!
Really? Well whoever wrote the Lord’s Prayer would disagree with you. Remember that line, “Lead us not into temptation”? Notice the word “lead” here. It could also be argued that God tempted Abraham to kill his own son. Abraham was quite prepared to do it until the angel stopped him (if you believe that grotesque and ridiculous story).
How come you latch onto that phrase about homosexuality being an abomination, but ignore so much similar nonsense in the bible. The bible also says eating shellfish is an abomination, but I’ll bet you like lobster, eh? The bible also says wearing 2 different types of fabric (like wool and cotton, or cotton-polyester blends) is an abomination, but I’ll bet you do it all the time. There are hundreds of clues in the bible that its authors were primitive crackpots, but you seem to have missed them all. Do you really believe God said "don't eat shellfish, it's an abomination"?
Lastly, when I was in kindergarten, I was in love with my very pretty teacher, but I never chose to be heterosexual. It just happened. There may well have been a little girl in my class with the same feelings. She never chose to be homosexual. It just happened. We don’t choose who we are attracted to, and that should be obvious. Think about it.
What you think mainstream America thinks is not a reason to believe something.
By the way your god hates just about everybody and that is why you can't get a grasp of the real concept of love and tolerance.
Your beliefs, quite frankly, are just plain stupid.
Is homosexuality natural as in "occurring in nature"?
Yes, it has been observed in many animals.
Is homosexuality natural as in "part of the individual's nature?"
Yes, it is not a pathological disturbance of character, it is not symptomatic of any mental disorder.
Is homosexuality natural as in "not artificial?"
Most likely. I can find no more reliable evidence that someone can be "turned gay" than I can that they can be turned straight.
Is homosexuality normal as in "naturally occurring, expected?"
Yes. See above.
Is homosexuality normal as in "conforming to the modal average?"
No. Gay individuals do indeed constitute a minority, but that's hardly a good reason to demonise them.
ROTFLMAO!
I disagree. If a book of mythology tells you to hate a natural attribute of a person, that book of mythology is useless as a guide to real life.
"If a Christian says that homosexuality is wrong, he is only quoting what the Word of God says."
In other words, you'll believe an ancient book over the real-life experiences of GLBT individuals. What an idiotic thing to do.
"These are not our words, they are God's words."
I doubt that *very* much, as your god is almost certainly fictional. A real god would know better than to write that tripe in the Bible.
"Many people believe that people are born homosexual. But that statement would call God a liar."
All righty, then! Your god (if it exists) is a f%cking liar. Happy now?
"As for animals, they too live in a fallen world. Animals do things that God never intended them to originally do."
Listen to yourself, Cinnamon! You're babbling total nonsense.
"But what evolutionary advantage can there be for the world and mankind, if we can't reproduce offspring."
You're dead wrong about the "can't reproduce offspring" part. I have a same-sex partner *and* a daughter.
As for the evolutionary advantage, even if GLBT individuals don't reproduce, their non-homosexual family members can and do reproduce. Instead of spending a lot of time and energy raising their own children, the GLBT members of the tribe/village/nation can do other things that aid the community as a whole -- Invent writing; record the tribe's legends for posterity; defend the homestead against invaders; study first aid and medicine; study weather patterns; create art, literature, theatre... Things that improve the quality of life for everyone in the tribe. That is the advantage, and it is not a trivial one.
"The human race would last only one generation."
Straw man. It is highly doubtful that 100% of the human population would ever be attracted primarily to their own gender, and even if they were, they are still quite capable of procreating.
"I keep hearing how Christians should be tolerant of homosexuals. But what about the Homosexual's tolerance of the Christians and their Biblical beliefs and point of view, which ultimately is God's point of view."
By calling us "sinners," "abominations" or "unnatural," and by actively interfering in our right to marry the people whom we love, you have *forfeited* the right to our respect. Your attitudes towards us are intolerable and all too often deadly, and I will not extend an olive branch unless it's to defend Myself physically against a gay-bashing homophobe.
Go away.
Does this seem right to you?
Tolerance does not mean approval. It is easy to tolerate things you are okay with, but a society that only allows stuff it has no particular objection to is in no way tolerant, it is the very definition of bigoted. I have seen enough Christians scream "persecution" at the first sign that someone won't accord them special privileges to know that disrespect of your lifestyle and your choices is not something you accept with equanimity. Time now to do as you would be done by, i.e. shut your mouth, swallow your hate and live and let live.
The "homosexual agenda" you mention looks to me no different to the preaching of Christian groups, though I've yet to be woken up on a Saturday morning by a couple of strangers hoping to convert me to homosexuality (I guess I go to the wrong parties). Why should your brand of indoctrination be any more acceptible than theirs? Personally, I don't think it normal that for and adult to still believe in imaginary friends, are you going to keep your practices and your churches out of my sight so as not to offend me? Didn't think so.
Does this seem right to you?
Tolerance does not mean approval. It is easy to tolerate things you are okay with, but a society that only allows stuff it has no particular objection to is in no way tolerant, it is the very definition of bigoted. I have seen enough Christians scream "persecution" at the first sign that someone won't accord them special privileges to know that disrespect of your lifestyle and your choices is not something you accept with equanimity. Time now to do as you would be done by, i.e. shut your mouth, swallow your hate and live and let live.
The "homosexual agenda" you mention looks to me no different to the preaching of Christian groups, though I've yet to be woken up on a Saturday morning by a couple of strangers hoping to convert me to homosexuality (I guess I go to the wrong parties). Why should your brand of indoctrination be any more acceptible than theirs? Personally, I don't think it normal that for and adult to still believe in imaginary friends, are you going to keep your practices and your churches out of my sight so as not to offend me? Didn't think so.
ROTFLMAO!
I disagree. If a book of mythology tells you to hate a natural attribute of a person, that book of mythology is useless as a guide to real life.
"If a Christian says that homosexuality is wrong, he is only quoting what the Word of God says."
In other words, you'll believe an ancient book over the real-life experiences of GLBT individuals. What an idiotic thing to do.
"These are not our words, they are God's words."
I doubt that *very* much, as your god is almost certainly fictional. A real god would know better than to write that tripe in the Bible.
"Many people believe that people are born homosexual. But that statement would call God a liar."
All righty, then! Your god (if it exists) is a f%cking liar. Happy now?
"As for animals, they too live in a fallen world. Animals do things that God never intended them to originally do."
Listen to yourself, Cinnamon! You're babbling total nonsense.
"But what evolutionary advantage can there be for the world and mankind, if we can't reproduce offspring."
You're dead wrong about the "can't reproduce offspring" part. I have a same-sex partner *and* a daughter.
As for the evolutionary advantage, even if GLBT individuals don't reproduce, their non-homosexual family members can and do reproduce. Instead of spending a lot of time and energy raising their own children, the GLBT members of the tribe/village/nation can do other things that aid the community as a whole -- Invent writing; record the tribe's legends for posterity; defend the homestead against invaders; study first aid and medicine; study weather patterns; create art, literature, theatre... Things that improve the quality of life for everyone in the tribe. That is the advantage, and it is not a trivial one.
"The human race would last only one generation."
Straw man. It is highly doubtful that 100% of the human population would ever be attracted primarily to their own gender, and even if they were, they are still quite capable of procreating.
"I keep hearing how Christians should be tolerant of homosexuals. But what about the Homosexual's tolerance of the Christians and their Biblical beliefs and point of view, which ultimately is God's point of view."
By calling us "sinners," "abominations" or "unnatural," and by actively interfering in our right to marry the people whom we love, you have *forfeited* the right to our respect. Your attitudes towards us are intolerable and all too often deadly, and I will not extend an olive branch unless it's to defend Myself physically against a gay-bashing homophobe.
Go away.
I disagree. If a book of mythology tells you to hate a natural attribute of a person, that book of mythology is useless as a guide to real life.
"If a Christian says that homosexuality is wrong, he is only quoting what the Word of God says."
In other words, you'll believe an ancient book over the real-life experiences of GLBT individuals. What an idiotic thing to do.
"These are not our words, they are God's words."
I doubt that *very* much, as your god is almost certainly fictional. A real god would know better than to write that tripe in the Bible.
"Many people believe that people are born homosexual. But that statement would call God a liar."
All righty, then! Your god (if it exists) is a f%cking liar. Happy now?
"As for animals, they too live in a fallen world. Animals do things that God never intended them to originally do."
Listen to yourself, Cinnamon! You're babbling total nonsense.
"But what evolutionary advantage can there be for the world and mankind, if we can't reproduce offspring."
You're dead wrong about the "can't reproduce offspring" part. I have a same-sex partner *and* a daughter.
As for the evolutionary advantage, even if GLBT individuals don't reproduce, their non-homosexual family members can and do reproduce. Instead of spending a lot of time and energy raising their own children, the GLBT members of the tribe/village/nation can do other things that aid the community as a whole -- Invent writing; record the tribe's legends for posterity; defend the homestead against invaders; study first aid and medicine; study weather patterns; create art, literature, theatre... Things that improve the quality of life for everyone in the tribe. That is the advantage, and it is not a trivial one.
"The human race would last only one generation."
Straw man. It is highly doubtful that 100% of the human population would ever be attracted primarily to their own gender, and even if they were, they are still quite capable of procreating.
"I keep hearing how Christians should be tolerant of homosexuals. But what about the Homosexual's tolerance of the Christians and their Biblical beliefs and point of view, which ultimately is God's point of view."
By calling us "sinners," "abominations" or "unnatural," and by actively interfering in our right to marry the people whom we love, you have *forfeited* the right to our respect. Your attitudes towards us are intolerable and all too often deadly, and I will not extend an olive branch unless it's to defend Myself physically against a gay-bashing homophobe.
Go away.
Really? Well whoever wrote the Lord’s Prayer would disagree with you. Remember that line, “Lead us not into temptation”? Notice the word “lead” here. It could also be argued that God tempted Abraham to kill his own son. Abraham was quite prepared to do it until the angel stopped him (if you believe that grotesque and ridiculous story).
How come you latch onto that phrase about homosexuality being an abomination, but ignore so much similar nonsense in the bible. The bible also says eating shellfish is an abomination, but I’ll bet you like lobster, eh? The bible also says wearing 2 different types of fabric (like wool and cotton, or cotton-polyester blends) is an abomination, but I’ll bet you do it all the time. There are hundreds of clues in the bible that its authors were primitive crackpots, but you seem to have missed them all. Do you really believe God said "don't eat shellfish, it's an abomination"? *
Lastly, when I was in kindergarten, I was in love with my very pretty teacher, but I never chose to be heterosexual. It just happened. There may well have been a little girl in my class with the same feelings. She never chose to be homosexual. It just happened. We don’t choose who we are attracted to, and that should be obvious. Think about it.
* So, you think the bible is the revealed word of god? That he wrote it, or caused it to be written just as it was? If so, then your god also believes the following: We should…
Kill disobedient sons (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
Kill those who work on the Sabbath (Exodus 35:2)
Kill blasphemers (Leviticus)
Kill non-virginal brides (Deuteronomy 22:20,21)
Kill homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13)
Kill adulterers (Leviticus 20:10)
Kill witches (Exodus 22)
So, what do you think? Do you really believe this is what god wants you to do? Seems like an awful lot of killing to me. Don’t you think it could be that the bible was written by a bunch of primitive men out of their own heads?
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