Holymen/Madmen
by Carl S
In the morning, I would arise and find my brother-in—law reading his bible. One time I told him that what he read about the lord commanding the Israelites to cut open the women, take out their babies and kill them, was not “inspired,” and that anyone who claimed so should be questioned as to his motives. Furthermore, I said that on that basis it was all B.S. He just sat there, unemotional. All of these things so far make me think of how they channeled their love, hate, and in general, emotions, into only certain areas, neglecting or being indifferent to the outside world. They all appear to be good people, but disturbing in this way.
We were into day four of a seven-day vacation. The son, who had been without his medication since leaving on the trip a week earlier, was acting stranger than when he first arrived. He had refused to take it, and to say that he was acting strangely would have been an understatement; and when he wasn’t acting, he was a zombie. Here was a person with a mental state beyond our experience.
That evening, at dinner, he suddenly stood up and shouted at my wife and I that she was trying to poison him, and that Jesus had told him then and there that we were possessed by demons. His father and my wife’s brother tried to restrain him, and I pointed out to him that my wife was a churchgoer, but I doubt it did any good. The women attempted to calm him, also. When the men took him onto the back porch, closing the door behind them, I told my wife, “Look, we have large knives in this house. What if he decides to come after us?” We began thinking of going out to a motel, and when her brother came in, we told him about this. Then, the boy’s father came in to say that they had been praying over his son to drive the devils out, and that he’d be okay. I said, “Oh sure, and what about next time?” since he didn’t take his medicine and it was all mental. (I had forgotten that the son had gone on a riverboat ride with my wife and three other people the previous day. What if he had seen her as a “demon” then? Would he have drowned her? And what of the night before, when we locked our bedroom door because he was acting so strangely?)
My brother—in—law started phoning to find a motel, and the three men went there for the night. The next morning, everyone packed up and left early, the son not entering our house.
Perhaps what is most disturbing and tragic is the fact that these religious, righteous people haven’t learned from this experience; they still believe in demons and genocides sanctioned by voices. They still do not realize their emotions are being exploited via massive praise gatherings and channeled hysteria. And it was just a year before that this sister-in-law was in the hospital with her nephew who was dying a horrible, agonizing death from hepatitis C, and of whom she said, “Tom isn’t Tom anymore.” Yet, she still believes in a loving God and an eternal, unalterable soul. May I be so bold as to suggest that they are all suffering from delusions, refusing to learn from experience, and enthralled by mentally ill prophets and the writer of Revelations?
Oh, but not to worry, when these relatives got back home, they promptly sent the son to a Christian Counselor.
Image by Fiver13 via Flickr
One summer, about three years ago, my wife’s brother, his wife, and a couple they knew with their son and daughter, came up to stay at our place for their vacation. The parents, all in their 60’s, and the kids, son 30’s, daughter 20’s, were all fundies. On the first full day, the women tuned into one of those Christian TV stations, and for the next two hours watched Nazi rally type praise and sermons, during which time I thought I’d lose my mind, even though I couldn’t make out the words, only the emotional intensity that came out loud like that of an attacking mob coming at you. They were totally involved.In the morning, I would arise and find my brother-in—law reading his bible. One time I told him that what he read about the lord commanding the Israelites to cut open the women, take out their babies and kill them, was not “inspired,” and that anyone who claimed so should be questioned as to his motives. Furthermore, I said that on that basis it was all B.S. He just sat there, unemotional. All of these things so far make me think of how they channeled their love, hate, and in general, emotions, into only certain areas, neglecting or being indifferent to the outside world. They all appear to be good people, but disturbing in this way.
We were into day four of a seven-day vacation. The son, who had been without his medication since leaving on the trip a week earlier, was acting stranger than when he first arrived. He had refused to take it, and to say that he was acting strangely would have been an understatement; and when he wasn’t acting, he was a zombie. Here was a person with a mental state beyond our experience.
That evening, at dinner, he suddenly stood up and shouted at my wife and I that she was trying to poison him, and that Jesus had told him then and there that we were possessed by demons. His father and my wife’s brother tried to restrain him, and I pointed out to him that my wife was a churchgoer, but I doubt it did any good. The women attempted to calm him, also. When the men took him onto the back porch, closing the door behind them, I told my wife, “Look, we have large knives in this house. What if he decides to come after us?” We began thinking of going out to a motel, and when her brother came in, we told him about this. Then, the boy’s father came in to say that they had been praying over his son to drive the devils out, and that he’d be okay. I said, “Oh sure, and what about next time?” since he didn’t take his medicine and it was all mental. (I had forgotten that the son had gone on a riverboat ride with my wife and three other people the previous day. What if he had seen her as a “demon” then? Would he have drowned her? And what of the night before, when we locked our bedroom door because he was acting so strangely?)
My brother—in—law started phoning to find a motel, and the three men went there for the night. The next morning, everyone packed up and left early, the son not entering our house.
Perhaps what is most disturbing and tragic is the fact that these religious, righteous people haven’t learned from this experience; they still believe in demons and genocides sanctioned by voices. They still do not realize their emotions are being exploited via massive praise gatherings and channeled hysteria. And it was just a year before that this sister-in-law was in the hospital with her nephew who was dying a horrible, agonizing death from hepatitis C, and of whom she said, “Tom isn’t Tom anymore.” Yet, she still believes in a loving God and an eternal, unalterable soul. May I be so bold as to suggest that they are all suffering from delusions, refusing to learn from experience, and enthralled by mentally ill prophets and the writer of Revelations?
Oh, but not to worry, when these relatives got back home, they promptly sent the son to a Christian Counselor.
Comments
Next, they seem so stupid and deluded to think that prayer was going to rid their son of demons when in reality he needed his medication. I don't think I would have been restrained enough not to go into the psychology of mental illness and the need for medication, esp in this man's case. He should not have been on that trip if he was that ill and refused to take his medication. As for the Xian counselor... well... those counselors are full of crap.
Granted, when my mother had breast cancer and was staying with us, there were some things I tolerated- such as her reading her Bible, but she did not start talking crap nor did she just turn on the TV to whatever she wanted to watch. Of course, she is hard of hearing, severely hard of hearing, and could care less for the TV. So, my sons had the TV for the most part and I did not leave my sons with her to supervise either- not just because she was sick, but because I did not want her imposing her views on them. It also helped that she did not feel qualified to supervise them, esp in her condition.
There is such a thing as respect and also tolerating some things in favour of relatives, but IMO, your relatives crossed the line in being tolerable, as well as being disrespectful. I don't think I could have withstood even one day of that crap.
Thanks for sharing your story. That is some disturbing stuff. Sadly, I have known some people who were that way. They would attribute any seemingly good thing to "God". They would say "it was God" to the stupidest little things. I guess they thought they were in tight with God.
They really believe their actions only force us 'heathens' to do what they believe is right.
True story here. My fanatical fundy sister in law walked into my house one day and immediately grabbed the remote to my tv. She turned the station to TBN all excited about some show that was just starting. Of course she never asked if she could turn the channel. Never asked if anyone was watching the basketball game that was on, despite knowing I am a huge basketball fan. After turning the channel she immediately walked into the bathroom.
I picked up the remote and put a password protected parental lock on all the religious channels and turned the station back to my game. I intentionally left the remote in plain view and walked into the next room.
As soon as my sister in law got out of the bathroom she walked in to the living room and picked up the remote. She tried to turn the tv to her TBN program. You would think the mere fact I had turned it back to the game would have told her something. But that meant nothing to her even though it was my house.
The look on her face when she was asked for a password brought a huge smile to mine. She threw the remote onto the couch and stormed out of the room. I don't remember much about my basketball game from that day, but I remember enjoying it very much.
By default, ALL xtian programming should be password protected. Or subscribed to through a special 'religious' package, just like the Playboy channel ;-) I hate that a portion of my cable bill pays for those worthless -- errrr... I mean DANGEROUS -- channels.
Now you've got me wondering if I should lock the channels on my tv to keep my fundy-hubby from tuning in. Then play innocent -- "Gee honey, I don't know. Must be some new default thing from comcast." He'd never figure out how to reprogram the remote. I do all that kind of stuff around here. He can't even figure out how to watch a dvd, let alone connect, set up, or program anything.
I just don't think I could keep a straight face long enough to pull it off.....
BP (who is still laughing out loud)
Maybe someday I will create a whole post about some more things like that I have done to my fundy family members when their they disrespect me and my family because of their religious beliefs.
Now, if it was completely up to me I would tell them exactly what I think of them and be thrilled to never see them again. But I respect my wife enough to not do that.
So we worked out a compromise that I can do little passive aggressive things to let them know that I'm not taking their crap without telling them what I think of them.
I don't know what state you are in but in CA had you called 911 the police would likely have 5150'd him as a danger to others and taken him in for a psych eval on an involuntary hold.
Since he had medication it sounds like he has seen an MD and they recognize he benefits from meds (settles the demons down). Hopefully the Christian counselor will see the need for further intervention, possibly hospitalization, to stabilize him on meds in a safe environment. Of course soon as he goes home the craziness resumes. In this family the guy doesn't stand a chance.
If/when he eventually hurts/kills someone/himself they will present as persecuted victims, blaming others, taking no responsibility.
Oh,come on. Don't your relatives believe the Flintstones to be a documentary about early man, living alongside the dinosaurs (Young Earthers, Hovind, Ham, Creation "Museum", and their ilk)? I know some of mine do................
;-)
I completely agree with you about exposing kids to love/romance movies rather than violence.
BP
BP
Actually, I watch some of the religious shows. Those preachers give themselves away. Watching Olsteen its clear he's a psychopath. The others I've seen are scammers too. I find it entertaining. I grew up watching Billy Graham and Oral Roberts both of whose sons grew up to be multimillion dollar slimeballs. It is entertaining (to a point).
They really are like children - and not particularly endearing children, at that.
I'm so sorry the son was sent to a Christian counselor. This brought to mind a recent story where the Catholic church is asking the faithful to keep their Meth n' Holy Water visions of Mary private until they are investigated by "psychiatrists" AND "demonologists": welcome to the Church of Cognitive Dissonance....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catholics-ordered-to-keep-quiet-over-virgin-visions-1332016.html
I don't have such patience with my outpatient fundamentalist relatives. I just call it as I see it...I refuse to feed their godsmack-addiction. My relatives' worldview is not "cute". Their religious hobby is as toxic/deranged/sick as "Bible bingo and Bible scrapbooking"...and they hurt the most vulnerable people in a third world country. I have zero tolerance for the shenanigans.
My tactics are both overtly hostile and passive aggressive depending on the nonsense spewed. I disrespect their worldview to the very marrow of my bones.
That's like the blind leading the blind. It can't work cause a xtian counselor is not objective due to their religious bias. They work from the assumption that humans are flawed and if they simply "conform" to the xtian way of life then all will be well. So, they spend their time working on bringing a client's mind to be "captive to the obedience of xrist" (sends shivers down my spine).
Anyway, yea, xtian counseling is useless.
Here is a great gallery of images. You can see entire galaxies slamming into one another. Each galaxy may have several hundred billion celestial bodies. Massive transformation of matter and energy is going on.
The Discovery Channel has aired some outstanding programs re. the violent nature of the universe. Stars collapsing. Gamma rays. Celestial bodies colliding. Black holes tearing material apart. Fascinating stuff. Doesn't appear to be an orderly process.
P.S. I took the avatar image from another thread on this site. I couldn't resist. I love that image.
http://hubblesite.org/gallery/album/galaxy/interacting/
Ahhhhhh...... Life in the buybull belt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdyM5eUXOPY
ROTFLMAO!!! The best part was the Pentecostal Song Service going on in the background! It sounded just like our youth camps when I was a teen. Hands clapping to the beat, rinky-tinky piano, and a loud voiced song leader soaring above the rest........Ahhhh, memories.............
XPD
I could have gotten JUST comedy central, TLC, Discover, History and cartoon network .. but because of those guys . . . T_T
Of course you may! I think "Christian-Countermeasures™" has a great ring to it, your tales would do it justice. A series of stories would be great, I've had this silly grin on my face since I read your first one.
Sorry this reply is out of sequence...
Truth to tell, it is the money-grubbing charlatan fleecing the ignorant and vulnerable.
Having to live amongst the deluded, is almost impossible at times. Take heart in knowing that all of us here have had weird experiences too. Just have to try & laugh at it all !
I just thought the original didn't convey sufficient flavour and left me wanting more.
;o)))
But, at the same time, manifesting a gullibility that would embarrass a teenager.
I just thought the original didn't convey sufficient flavour and left me wanting more.
;o)))
Having to live amongst the deluded, is almost impossible at times. Take heart in knowing that all of us here have had weird experiences too. Just have to try & laugh at it all !
Truth to tell, it is the money-grubbing charlatan fleecing the ignorant and vulnerable.
Of course you may! I think "Christian-Countermeasures™" has a great ring to it, your tales would do it justice. A series of stories would be great, I've had this silly grin on my face since I read your first one.
Sorry this reply is out of sequence...
I could have gotten JUST comedy central, TLC, Discover, History and cartoon network .. but because of those guys . . . T_T
ROTFLMAO!!! The best part was the Pentecostal Song Service going on in the background! It sounded just like our youth camps when I was a teen. Hands clapping to the beat, rinky-tinky piano, and a loud voiced song leader soaring above the rest........Ahhhh, memories.............
XPD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdyM5eUXOPY
Ahhhhhh...... Life in the buybull belt.
I'm so sorry the son was sent to a Christian counselor. This brought to mind a recent story where the Catholic church is asking the faithful to keep their Meth n' Holy Water visions of Mary private until they are investigated by "psychiatrists" AND "demonologists": welcome to the Church of Cognitive Dissonance....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/...
I don't have such patience with my outpatient fundamentalist relatives. I just call it as I see it...I refuse to feed their godsmack-addiction. My relatives' worldview is not "cute". Their religious hobby is as toxic/deranged/sick as "Bible bingo and Bible scrapbooking"...and they hurt the most vulnerable people in a third world country. I have zero tolerance for the shenanigans.
My tactics are both overtly hostile and passive aggressive depending on the nonsense spewed. I disrespect their worldview to the very marrow of my bones.
P.S. You have to wonder how a psychiatrist feels being second guessed by a demonologist....
That's like the blind leading the blind. It can't work cause a xtian counselor is not objective due to their religious bias. They work from the assumption that humans are flawed and if they simply "conform" to the xtian way of life then all will be well. So, they spend their time working on bringing a client's mind to be "captive to the obedience of xrist" (sends shivers down my spine).
Anyway, yea, xtian counseling is useless.
They really are like children - and not particularly endearing children, at that.
As far as all this demon casting goes..ever hear of Benny Hinn? Check this out for a laugh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI.
Sad thing is , millions of people PAY money to see this garbage in person and will defend it to the death. Never mind his show takes in about $200 million a year but he still needs more!
Actually, I watch some of the religious shows. Those preachers give themselves away. Watching Olsteen its clear he's a psychopath. The others I've seen are scammers too. I grew up watching Billy Graham and Oral Roberts, both of whose sons grew up to be multimillion dollar slimeballs. It is entertaining (to a point).
BP
Oh,come on. Don't your relatives believe the Flintstones to be an educational documentary about early man, living alongside the dinosaurs (like the Young Earthers, Hovind, Ham, Creation "Museum", and their ilk)? ;-) I know some of mine do................
I completely agree with you about exposing kids to love/romance movies rather than violence.
BP
I don't know what state you are in but in CA had you called 911 the police would likely have 5150'd him as a danger to others and taken him in for a psych eval on an involuntary hold.
Since he had medication it sounds like he has seen an MD and they recognize he benefits from meds (settles the demons down). Hopefully the Christian counselor will see the need for further intervention, possibly hospitalization, to stabilize him on meds in a safe environment. Of course soon as he goes home the craziness resumes. In this family the guy doesn't stand a chance.
If/when he eventually hurts/kills someone/himself they will present as persecuted victims, blaming others, taking no responsibility.
Now, if it was completely up to me I would tell them exactly what I think of them and be thrilled to never see them again. But I respect my wife enough to not do that.
So we worked out a compromise that I can do little passive aggressive things to let them know that I'm not taking their crap without telling them what I think of them.
Maybe someday I will create a whole post about some more things like that I have done to my fundy family members when their they disrespect me and my family because of their religious beliefs.
By default, ALL xtian programming should be password protected. Or subscribed to through a special 'religious' package, just like the Playboy channel. ;-) I hate that a portion of my cable bill pays for those worthless -- errrr... I mean DANGEROUS -- channels.
Now you've got me wondering if I should lock the channels on my tv to keep my fundy-hubby from tuning in. Then play innocent -- "Gee honey, I don't know. Must be some new default thing from comcast." He'd never figure out how to reprogram the remote. I do all that kind of stuff around here. He can't even figure out how to watch a dvd, let alone connect, set up, or program anything.
I just don't think I could keep a straight face long enough to pull it off.....
BP (who is still laughing out loud)
They really believe their actions only force us 'heathens' to do what they believe is right.
True story here. My fanatical fundy sister in law walked into my house one day and immediately grabbed the remote to my tv. She turned the station to TBN all excited about some show that was just starting. Of course she never asked if she could turn the channel. Never asked if anyone was watching the basketball game that was on, despite knowing I am a huge basketball fan. After turning the channel she immediately walked into the bathroom.
I picked up the remote and put a password protected parental lock on all the religious channels and turned the station back to my game. I intentionally left the remote in plain view and walked into the next room.
As soon as my sister in law got out of the bathroom she walked in to the living room and picked up the remote. She tried to turn the tv to her TBN program. You would think the mere fact I had turned it back to the game would have told her something. But that meant nothing to her even though it was my house.
The look on her face when she was asked for a password brought a huge smile to mine. She threw the remote onto the couch and stormed out of the room. I don't remember much about my basketball game from that day, but I remember enjoying it very much.
Thanks for sharing your story. That is some disturbing stuff. Sadly, I have known some people who were that way. They would attribute any seemingly good thing to "God". They would say "it was God" to the stupidest little things. I guess they thought they were in tight with God.
Next, they seem so stupid and deluded to think that prayer was going to rid their son of demons when in reality he needed his medication. I don't think I would have been restrained enough not to go into the psychology of mental illness and the need for medication, esp in this man's case. He should not have been on that trip if he was that ill and refused to take his medication. As for the Xian counselor... well... those counselors are full of crap.
Granted, when my mother had breast cancer and was staying with us, there were some things I tolerated- such as her reading her Bible, but she did not start talking crap nor did she just turn on the TV to whatever she wanted to watch. Of course, she is hard of hearing, severely hard of hearing, and could care less for the TV. So, my sons had the TV for the most part and I did not leave my sons with her to supervise either- not just because she was sick, but because I did not want her imposing her views on them. It also helped that she did not feel qualified to supervise them, esp in her condition.
There is such a thing as respect and also tolerating some things in favour of relatives, but IMO, your relatives crossed the line in being tolerable, as well as being disrespectful. I don't think I could have withstood even one day of that crap.
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