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11/27/2006                                                                                       View Comments

What if it's true?

What if it's true?A church banner from US-1 outside of Princeton, NJ

Sent in by a friend of ExChristian.Net

This church banner asks the question "What if it's true?" The apparent intent is to solicit church attendance from those who aren't sure whether or not they believe in the Christian mythology, just in case Christianity is actually true.

A recent Harris poll (Oct '06) found that of the 73% of Americans who believe in God, 16% aren't convinced there is a God.

Does it make sense to go through the motions of practicing a religion, simply because you aren't sure if it's true or not? Do Christians believe that simply practicing the rituals will keep them out of hell? Wouldn't their all-knowing God realize they were just pretending to believe?

What do you think?

71 comments:

Vixentrox said...

No, it doesnt make sense. Why should you enslave yourself to the Christian god on the off chance they might be right? Why not worship Zeus or Ra or any of the other hundreds if not thousands of dieties? They have just as much chance of being a true god.

Anonymous said...

Well let just say for 1 minute Jesus is true..OK then doing what he says to do is impossible..Even martin Luther while a monk found it imposible to not sin..thats why he had to do the faith Alone BS...Becasue he even knew it was imposible..and then he thought just have faith will get him inside the gate.
So I dont understand why Christian go all their lives like this..most 99.99999% are really unsure of their salvation..The others are just decieved.
So if it is true most are going to hell anyway so whats it matter?
Leaf

Anonymous said...

Because Christian God is the big daddy! And all those other gods are just playtoys! You will be smote to hell just for doubting him!
Fear and obeisance is alas a bigger power than many people would admit.

Naomi

slingshot said...

It seems to me that the christian church has long used the fear of hell to scare others into believing instead of thinking. The christian hell is absurd, really. The old fear tactic.

Anonymous said...

Pascal's wager again.

They don't realize it's stupid.

D Laurier said...

Pascal's wager;
Is an expression of deep moral cowardice. It's also a selling point for most fundies, who assume that everyone else is as bad as (or worse than) themselves.

Anonymous said...

"What if it's true?" Well, that's a good question. But what if we'e all wrong and Ba'al is the true God and the Jews and Christians are to blame for killing all his prophets?

Moonpearl said...

Anyway, as ex-Christians, many of us already atrated with or were brainwashed with the idea that it WAS true, and then found out that it wasn't. Not just because of the way the fallible people treated us, mostly because of how contradictory it all is.

Anonymous said...

Vixentrox said,

No, it doesnt make sense. Why should you enslave yourself to the Christian god on the off chance they might be right? Why not worship Zeus or Ra or any of the other hundreds if not thousands of dieties? They have just as much chance of being a true god.
"The So-called "Christian god, is, Zeus", or didn't you know that? Look at the picture they use, it is "Zeus" the Greek god of gods and goddesses... "Dumb" Spiritually dead...

True belief sets you free from all tbhuis bullshit as the Apostle Paul would saym and did say. In Christ there is freedom, Christ never attended a church and never commanded anyone to do so. This is mans Religion with the Name of Christ attached to it, which is bullshit...
celestials1938@msn.com
and so-it-goes!

SpaceMonk said...

If it's true Yahweh is sending 95% of mankind to eternal hellfire.

...and Satan is my hero.

Anonymous said...

Sumner Said,

There is no Hell, and Jesus Christ never spoke of one, Hell is an English word and Jesus never spoke English, He spoke Hebrew and Greek, and their is no such word in these two languasges or one that could trepresent the word Hell. Hell is a philosophical Fable introduce by early Pagan conversts to Christianity, they brought there crap with them, and it became a part of Apostate-Christ-en-dom...
So-goes ther story!

celestials1938@MSN.COM

Slingshot said...
It seems to me that the christian church has long used the fear of hell to scare others into believing instead of thinking. The christian hell is absurd, really. The old fear tactic. "THEY LIE"

Anonymous said...

No, it doesnt make sense. Why should you enslave yourself to the Christian god on the off chance they might be right? Why not worship Zeus or Ra or any of the other hundreds if not thousands of dieties? They have just as much chance of being a true god.

Shutup and go see that movie the Nativity.

Anonymous said...

Moonpearl said...
Anyway, as ex-Christians, many of us already atrated with or were brainwashed with the idea that it WAS true, and then found out that it wasn't. Not just because of the way the fallible people treated us, mostly because of how contradictory it all is.

Sumner Said,
You cannot be an ex-christian, that is one chice you do-not have If you think you choose not to be, then you never was in the first place, Being a Christian is not by Choice but by God, He (God)is the choser we are not we are impotent in these matters, He is omnipotent!
end of story!
celestials1938@msn.com

Anonymous said...

Vixentrox wrote:

No, it doesnt make sense. Why should you enslave yourself to the Christian god on the off chance they might be right? Why not worship Zeus or Ra or any of the other hundreds if not thousands of dieties? They have just as much chance of being a true god.

So V, are we still gonna go see The Nativity together?

Warnepiece said...

“You cannot be an ex-christian, that is one choice you do-not have If you think you choose not to be, then you never was in the first place…”

More of Celestials1938s scatological “pearls of wisdom”.

Hey Celeste…is there a point to the nonsense you post?

Thackerie said...

"He is omnipotent! end of story!
celestials1938@msn.com"

Christian troll got it wrong yet again. Judges 1:19.

Anonymous said...

i would think one reason not to worship baal or zues or ra was they werent always good or loving the priest of baal cut themselves to offer blood and baal never answered him but when elijah asked and God answered him. im not very interested in mutilating myself to please a god but a God that would love me enough to come to earth die in my place and then forgive me while i was killing him so that in the power of His ressurection i could live the life of love, joy and peace with him. i could probably love that God.

SpaceMonk said...

"Sumner Said,

There is no Hell, and Jesus Christ never spoke of one,..."

Yes, but, What if it's True?


"...Hell is a philosophical Fable introduce by early Pagan conversts to Christianity, they brought there crap with them, and it became a part of Apostate-Christ-en-dom..."

Oh, derrr
Sort of like the dying and rising saviour gods they brought with them, and their three day death and resurrection matching the three day dying and rising of the Sun (of God) at the Winter Solstice ...and all it's matching Astrological/Zodiacal symbolism.

Spirula said...

"i would think one reason not to worship baal or zues or ra was they werent always good or loving the priest of baal cut themselves to offer blood and baal never answered him but when elijah asked and God answered him"

Of course. Because the Wholly Babel gives the "True Story" about other religions, and it would never lie to promote its own story. And it''s a good thing your Gawd never demanded hundreds and hundreds of blood sacrifices...oh, wait. And those Philistines sure enjoyed "God's love" dinnt they?

Seriously 'anonymice', have you ever read through the Old Testament? Because you sure know how to bring teh stupid.

freedy said...

Celestial 1938,..your need some mental health evaluation and/or treatment,...(takes one to know one.)
There's no shame in getting help,...I did.

Your comments don't make much sense, and you tend to lecture on things you know little about.
P.S. I try not to post here if I've been drinking,...hint,hint!

freedy said...

Celestials1938. How old are you? I'm 47.

Anonymous said...

Talking about hell.Its not in the old test. Jeus made it up and his version of hell is all fucked upped. The Jews NEVER believed in a hell. And all church disiplines that refer to hell never use the old testiment...So really being a Xtian or not..Their really is no hell.
So if God , Jehovah is true the worse that will happen is I will get anhialeted.

Anonymous said...

spirula, yes i have read the old testament but if you prefer i wont refer to it but to aztek gods and their human sacrifice system to make the same point. their system is pretty well accepted as fact. it still leaves you with the point there arent to many gods you would want to worship. the philistine could have enjoyed Gods love, other none hebrews of the old testament did. some examples are rahab, ruth, some of the non hebrew kings changed to allegence to the hebrew God and many of them have evidence of their existence in accepted non biblical sources, peace anonymice

Vixentrox said...

Why would I want to see some Nativity movie? What does that have to do with anything? It's just one more myth story and not a particularily good one.

myqel said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
myqel said...

The Christian God does not want someone who is "lukewarm" to their faith, such as one who believes because "it might be true."

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Truthsmack said...

Not even the Christians do what Jesus teaches anymore. Thus, what compelling reason exists for me to do what they themselves don't bother to do?

In all their efforts to convince the rest of us that they are relevant, evangelical Christians are ruining this country.

(I'm not connected with TheologyOnline.com, btw... I need to change my bloggername, huh?)

Anonymous said...

It's amazing how you can view religion from a different perspective once you're not brainwashed by Christianity. That fish symbol next to the word "CrossPointe" on the sign, I thought it was two of those Muslim crescent moons next to each other at first, therefore assuming it was for a mosque.

Either way, What if it's true that you belong to like 70 percent of the population that does not believe in the Christian GOd, and there never was Jesus.

Even among Christians, what if salvation via priest, pastor, Brigham Young, Sun Myung Moon, the church of xxx, etc... was never true? There can only be one way, so that widens the unsaved and damned to over 99 percent.

Why bother living in fear? If you're 99.9999% likely to go to hell because you didn't pick the right God and the right path (denomination, messiah), then don't bother with religion.

Lorena said...

Celestial
Being a Christian is not by Choice but by God, He (God)is the choser we are not we are impotent in these matters, He is omnipotent!
end of story!

Lorena
Wow, Celestial, your self-esteem is shitty. Get some therapy.

Why would anyone follow a God who thinks you are "impotent" ha, ha...

SpaceMonk said...

"Why would anyone follow a God who thinks you are "impotent" ha, ha... "

Especially if you're in the 'church of xxx'.
Damn.

imaginary sky daddy said...

SpaceMonk wrote:

If it's true Yahweh is sending 95% of mankind to eternal hellfire.

...and Satan is my hero.


It seems that it can be a natural instinct for humans to be hypocritical, and the way you have alot of people who make fun of people with deformities, crippled people, homosexuals, extremely poor people such as the ones that are homeless, and I could go on and on, yes 95% of humankind would be eternally damned just for that one sin alone, not to mention others that all christians do on a daily basis. But we must not forget Yahweh, he's the biggest hypocrite of them all.

Anonymous said...

mygel consider the context of that verse Jesus is pointing it out to them. Jesus is telling so they can change to give them the chance to come closer to him and not settle for half a life. He accepts us as we are now and where at are at in life and guides us into new life with Him. just as he is helping that church. He will not abandon us if we mess up but allows us to be forgiven and come back. consider peter who even denied Him, thats worse than being lukewarm and he forgave peter and peter went on to do amazing things in Jesus name.

Anonymous said...

Celestial says:
Being a Christian is not by Choice but by God, He (God)is the choser we are not we are impotent in these matters, He is omnipotent!
end of story!

Yee make no sense. So. I am told by Christians, choose god so you won't go to hell. You, Celestial, tell me i have no choice. First of all, you're contradicting all of Christian doctrine. But let's follow your logic. Only God decides. So what's the point? If I have no choice, why should I worry? I have no control over the situation. God decides, not me. Leaves me totally out of the picture. I am free to do whatever, and think whatever, I please, because my God has it all picked out for me. I am impotent! Yeay! Please reply.

Naomi

Nvrgoingbk said...

AnonymASS said: "i would think one reason not to worship baal or zues or ra was they werent always good or loving the priest of baal cut themselves to offer blood and baal never answered him but when elijah asked and God answered him. im not very interested in mutilating myself to please a god."

Uhm, don't Jews mutilate themselves by cutting off their foreskin to this very day? Yahweh is your God too. And you think that God was always loving and good? Would you ever justify a human king to order his soldiers to kill EVERY inhabitant of another land INCLUDING innocent babies? Would you ever worship a king who ordered you to dash the babes upon the rocks? Your God has been requiring blood sacrifices from the dawn of man. What is it exactly that turns God on so much when it comes to animal sacrifices? What is it about the smell of burning animal carcass that pleases him so? I don't get it! And can you please tell me why God allowed a man to sacrifice his own daughter just because he vowed to God that he would sacrifice thing he saw if Yahweh would help him win the battle? He sees his daughter and sacrifices her just because he made an oath?!? Get the fuck out of here. A "good" and "loving" God would be like, "Dude, I know you weren't talking about your daughter, so I'll let that slide. Just go get a ram or something and we'll call it even. This was just a really bad coincidence, besides you know how I feel about human sacrifices and them being an abomination and all, so just chill out on killing your daughter and all. I'm not going to nit pick." But NO, your God allowed it despite his hatred for such a practice. Your good and loving God sure resembles all those other gods that you scoff at. What is the difference?

mortician said...

Shutup and go see that movie the Nativity.
BAhahaahah!!

Anonymous said...

Wow, only 73%? and only 58% absolutely certain? That's down from over 90% in polls taken just a few years ago. This means in recent years approximately 30% of the American population has decided to take responsibility for their own existence rather than dumping it off on some supernatural fantasy. The more you know, the less you have to take on faith. Education in America is working.

Lorena said...

Anony
He accepts us as we are now and where at are at in life and guides us into new life with Him.

Lorena
Oh gee, if I am OK and acceptable the way I am right now, why the heck would I need a new life?

And if I wanted a new life, I can get it myself, thank you very much. I am the creator of my own destinity. No outside help required.
Change in an inside job, anony.

Leonard said...

Celestials, this one´s for you:

LADY WHITEADDER (Sharply): "Young man, has anyone ever told you that you are an imbecile?"

LORD PERCY (Bemused): "Oh, yes."

LADY WHITEADDER (satisfied): "..Good."

---

What if it´s true?

What if Odin and his brothers Vili and Ve really did slay Aurgelmir and made this world out of his vanquished body?

What if the exalted Lord Krishna indeed did make this world as a diversion, a lark, a game?

What if Izanagi and Izanami really did stir this world out of the primordial chaos-ocean?

What if Rainbow Snake really did form this world in his coils?

What if this world really is a sentient being called Gaia who was born out of Chaos?

What if the sun really is merely a spark the Invisible Pink Unicorn struck out of nothingness with Her divine hoof?

What if this universe really was vomited into existence by Azathoth, the mindless, blind daemon-sultan whose nuclear chaos twists and writhes at the center of everything?

What if the universe was really farted out the bum of a giant space elephant?

Yes, what if it was true? What the fuck difference does it make anyway? If there is a supernatural explanation that contradicts the known facts, we will NEVER know which one it is anyway.

I´ll go with reason and logic. I´ll believe in a god as soon as I have a valid reason to.

HareTrinity said...

What if it's true? The whole thing?

Then this being had millions of people slaughtered in his name, men, women and children, and I would MUCH rather spend an eternity in hellfire than EVER worship such an asshole.

Anonymous said...

nrvgoingbrk, those are very good questions. concerning animal sacrifices God answers that question himself in hosea (6:6) For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings. additionally the way God required the animals to be slaughtered was more human than the way we in many cases slaughter them today they were not allowed to offer sacrifes with the blood/life still in it and they ate them for food afterwards as i understand it. symbolically it pointed to the sacrifice of God Himself Jesus on the cross who died for us. He is not a far off cruel God but a God that lived here on earth with us felt what we feel tempted like we are tempted knew sorrow for the death of a loved one knew joy and as an act of love for us gave His life and forgave we who killed Him so that we could live with Him in the fullness of life and love and is has and isfreeing us from the fallen world. ive got to work now but will try that army killing veryone thing. i hope this is helpful, peace

Anonymous said...

It's amazing how many individuals have the wrong understanding of God, and faith. I realize that many people who call themselves "Christians" are deceived by thinking that going through emotionless religious motions are what our faith is about. I respect those who wish to deny that existence of a God, but are you not in judging those who have faith lowering yourself to their level (I mean the judgemental types) by demeaning those who have been genuinely good hearted? What I am saying is if you have obtained some intellectual freedom from religion and the enslavement of religion, then wouldn't you wish to assist others to the same enlightenment.

I guess I don't really see any difference between many of you in here than those fundy judgementalist that give me and my faith a bad name.

Spirula said...

God required the animals to be slaughtered was more human (sic)than the way we in many cases slaughter them today

Wrong. USDA and IACUC both require that animals not be slaughtered in the presence of other animals (the smells and sounds panics/terrifies them...inhumane), unlike your "kind" gawd. The OT practices were just as primitive and inhumane as all other primitive societies, including treatment of humans (penalty for raping a virgin, stoning, genocide). Basically your feeble argument amounts to no more than choosing the gawd that you think is the least evil. Pathetic. But you won't get it.

And to the last anonymice:
Did you notice the EX in Ex-Christian? Have you been reading the testimonials? Do you realize many of us here suffered under the "good-heartedness" of Christians? Things like mental torture, needless guilt, deceit, humiliation and sexual molestation. You think some asswipe that thinks they can come here and "preach" is going to get a "be nice to them" pass? I'll guarantee you one thing, you won't find any of us trying to impose our beliefs and "morality" on anyone else.

twincats said...

To add to Leonard's list, my personal fave:

The Egyptian god Atum created himself and then created the rest of the gods/goddesses by masturbating.

What if it's true??

Anonymous said...

actually you are wrong the laws that were given for the slaughtering of animals were very difrent even unique from the cultures around them in which animals were strangled as part of their rituals. and by the way the world is larger than america and the usda. when you read the old testament you will notice that God always saves the animals with the people. the arc, when leaving eygpt etc. but that issue is beside the point. your last comments about suffering seems to be more the point. God didnt do any of those things to any of us as a matter of fact he was murdered by us and out of His amazing love offers forgiveness and new life with Him forever. joshua clearing out of the people from the land can help us to see that God does bring justice and that life with Him will not have any sin or fear or death or crying because he is fixing it all and He has sent us the Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing that world that is to come. this life with Him is available to everyone. look at the birth life death and resurrection of Jesus He is the God of the old testament. if someone did something to you that is horrible i can give you my email and try and find someone responsible that you can talk to. God does heal and He loves you.

Spirula said...

As I predicted, anonymous didn't get it. Biblical sacrifices were not "humane". There are far more humane ways to treat and euthanize animals (see...USDA and IACUC regulations were just EXAMPLES of how that can be done). But since your Tantrum Driven Invisible Sky Daddy prescribes a way YOU consider more humane than the other surrounding religions/cults...well were back to the choosing the lesser evil thingy again.
Gee...he saved some animals on the ark, but then fucking killed all the rest because he was mad at HUMANS. That's mercy and justice for you. Oh, and he latter 'repented' and promised never to do it again. Oppsy.

And the only suffering I endured was the overbearing and guilt driven existance of being raised in a fundy home. That and having endure the endless sermons and prayer meetings and fundy school "science". But had you bothered to read about others here, you would realize that all here have had to endure and question and finally leave the horror that is Christianity.

I'll pass on the email and the "responsible" person to talk to. That's kind of like asking Charles Manson advice on ethics.

And don't pray for me. It's an insult. I consider that classic fundy condescention and an attempt at having the last word. Your arrogance is matched only by your ignorance.

Anonymous said...

spirula, if you dont mind my saying you have 3 times ignored the sacrifice of God and that He didnt desire there sacrifice but our love and knowledge of Him its in hosea and in matthew. why is that? just this once forget the fundamentalist and anyone else and pretend. What if there really was a God that loved us enough to give His life to save us wouldnt He be the one you would follow? What if it was true? what if he would love us just the way we are and lead us to a life beyond our dreams. that we would be changed and the pain and sadness turned to joy. i would follow. i wouldnt settle for any other God. dont settle for this crappy world. join the fight.

boomSLANG said...

spirula, if you dont mind my saying you have 3 times ignored the sacrifice of God...

Anony, if you don't mind me asking---is "God"(Jesus) dead?...or alive? I ask, because if you proclaim that "Jesus lives!!", like so many other Christians proclaim, then I would hardly call it a "sacrifice", as nothing was technically "given up", namely, a life.

On the other hand, if Jesus did "die on the cross", like Christians also claim, then he would be "dead". That's right---"die" = "dead"---and if Jesus is dead now, then if he did exist, there's nothing to say he was just a average joe, hardly worth all the fuss. You can't have it both ways, Anony.

That "Ball" Guy said...

"What if there really was a God that loved us enough to give His life to save us wouldnt He be the one you would follow? What if it was true? what if he would love us just the way we are and lead us to a life beyond our dreams. that we would be changed and the pain and sadness turned to joy. i would follow."

It's true, Mithra was so loving to do that for us. . oh wait. .

h3lix said...

[i]Anony, if you don't mind me asking---is "God"(Jesus) dead?...or alive? I ask, because if you proclaim that "Jesus lives!!", like so many other Christians proclaim, then I would hardly call it a "sacrifice", as nothing was technically "given up", namely, a life.[/i]

Exactly. In fact, he's way better off than he was before the "sacrifice" because instead of suffering on this miserable planet, he is now on the right side of his father...

I'm going to make a "sacrifice" for everyone by getting a snack.

There were a couple of responses that called the sign Pascal's Wager. This isn't really fair to Pascal's Wager, because it is actually a formed logical argument (although just as fallacious).
This is just an appeal to fear.

Nvrgoingbk said...

Anonymous, your condescending response to my "questions" is nauseating. My sarcasm was obviously wasted on you. I wasn't asking those questions out of a sincere desire to know. I have already reduced your Holy BABBLE, to the disgusting attempt at trying to control the masses through fear of retribution or promise of reward, so your attempts at defending your god are equally as wasted on me. No doubt, if you check with your pastor and ask him about God commanding the Israelites to slaughter surroundng nations, he will try and pacify you with the idea that the surrounding nations were evil through and through, and that they had no choice but to purge the land of such wickedness, however this explanation can not sit with a rational human being. Afterall, rationality is a gift from God. He gave us the ability to do so, so there should be no reason to doubt our rational mind. Rationality demands one to then, ask him/herself what an ENTIRE nation, including innocent babies, could have done to deserve such wretched deaths.

Animal sacrifice, is animal sacrifice, is animal sacrifice. I don't care how it's done, but that it is done at all, and it makes NO FUCKING SENSE! I had already internally predicted your response about the Hosea passage, and my regret is that I didn't refer to it myself before you did. First of all, if Yahweh desired mercy and NOT animal sacrifice, than he should have told them that to begin with. He shouldn't have incorporated the damned practice to begin with. Second of all, it makes NO FUCKING SENSE, that God would be pleased with watching one of his creations, that just so happens to be innocent, through no consent of its own, be sacrificed for someone else's sin. It's stupid! It doesn't right the wrong done in any way. It just leaves one less cow in the world.

God wasn't very merciful to the animals when he drowned all but a tiny fragment of them (a borrowed story around the world about a worldwide flood that DID NOT originate with the Jews). How much sense does that make to you?

And if God really desires mercy and sacrifice, than why send his son to die as a SACRIFICE?!? If Jesus died for the sins of the world, than that is the END OF THE STORY. If doesn't depend on any act of our own, than IT IS FINISHED. If salvation does require some act of our own, INCLUDING FAITH, than it is no longer on Christ's merrit alone, but by some action of our own. You can't have it both ways. Either he died for the sins of THE WORLD or his sacrifice was pointless. If he died for the sins of the world, than there should be no reason to torture me foever and ever in a flaming pit, simply because my mind said, "No fucking way." If he died for the sins of the world, I am sure his sacrifice was enough. If it wasn't enough than it was in vain. That's the end of the line. The fact reamains that you believe that anyone who does not subscribe to your particular set of beliefs is doomed to Hell, no matter the quality of their contribution whilst here on Earth. The problem is that your Bible leaves no room for compromise, which leaves us with a conundrum, because, you see, the rational mind than asks itself why, if God desires mercy than how can he justify sending one to such a place as Hell, simply for believing the wrong thing, when there were plenty of "evidence" attesting to other divine revelations around the world that are of a different religious persuasion as yours and convincing others that a path other than your own was the right one? If God is so merciful, how can he justify sending someone to an ETERNAL Hell for FINITE sins. Once again, it doesn't make sense. If something doesn't make sense, my rational mind will not allow me to tolerate ignorance for very long before purging itself of the nonsense. You reject other religions, because they are nonsensical to you. I reject yours for the same reason.

For any Christian to assume that our experience with Christianity was fake or that we were not "real Christians" is smug and repulsive. Your God supposedly judges the content of the heart, but Christians have designated themselves as judge and jury of every living soul on the planet. Get OVER yourself!

Enough said

Anonymous said...

i apologize if my email came across as condenscending and i do not discount your experiences at all. the sacrificed animals were eaten for food and was also a way to show us what God was going to do that could save us. yes the killing of innocense is extremely repulsive the God on the cross is extremely repulsive he did nothing to deserve being there but he was the pure sacrifice he laid down his life in love He could have stopped at any time, He had the power to, but He allowed Himself to be sacrificed. What kind of God dies what kind of power is that? why does He not have vengence on us? He did die and He was forsaken by the Father. when the blood and water seperate that is clinical evidence of real death the didnt know that back then they just wrote what they saw but we know it now. he told people in Hell about resurrection life and Im sure many believed. the bible says as many as grains of sand on the seashore its not a small number saved He is far to gracious and His conquering of death far to powerful for that and yes He is very much alive and not distant God is here with us. i will get back on the hell question that work thing again. peace and my respect your questions are very good and i am learning alot from them. that is not meant to sound condensending

Anonymous said...

and you are right if he did die for the sins of the world than that is the end of the story and that would not help us at all but through baptism we are joined to His life death and resurection, new life, that we can begin to live now the effects of the work of the spirit are peace, love, joy, patience, kindness. i would offer that faith is a work of God though as these verses john 6:29-60 actually those verses tie alot of the things we have been discussing. He wasnt pleased to watch it it broke His heart but He also loved us enough to make the sacrice and open the way to end the suffering as a result of our sin. He paid the price we cant pay did what we couldnt do animal sacrifice couldnt do it we couldnt do it but God/Jesus did. the sacrifice was enough we can begin living a life of joy of and with Him.

south2003 said...

Annoy said: "i wouldnt settle for any other God."

Could this be a Freudian slip? Me thinks you are saying there are other gods?

Well I’ll be damn!

Anonymous said...

no slip idols have been worshiped as gods the romans worshipped many gods egyptians. i meant it the same way Paul did in the bible when he said in philipians their god is there stomach. he didnt actually mean that there stomach was a god. there are some interesting references to other gods in the old testament and some in the new as well. the topic can be pretty involved and interesting. what are some of your thoughts on other gods.

MadWorld said...

Un-frikkin-real!!!
Anoy-ass fundy is not listening folks and NEVER will.
I had the gross mis-fortune of finding out that one of my long standing work colleages is in fact a fundy-arse closet Jehova Witness! Go figure???
I did some research on these dick-warts (just as wacked as our on-board Christ-stain)and it would appear that in JW meetings, a powerful mix of mass-hynotism is employed by their hierarchy, who are specially trained in this field. This is how they get them to tow the line.I have often wondered at the blank looks,glazed stares and stacchato actions of all the "door-knockers", but now it all makes sense! I also have to wonder if the same thing is not going on in fundy churches as well?? Our resident anoy-asses' actions smack of the very thing!
Just look at how it bangs out all the words, stopping only to insert capital letters for what it considers to be "holey".
This theory goes some way in unravelling this mystery. Brainwashing takes on a whole new meaning.

Anonymous said...

i would suppose anything you devote your life to can be an idol and in some sense a god to you in as much as you center your life around it. i have centered my life around alot of wrong things they brought me some satifaction for a little while but over time just left me empty wondering if drugs or sex was all there was to life and then we died. i made them my god and they let me down in the end they couldnt save me just numb the pain. and know that i have met who i was wanting all my life without knowing it all. i dont want to go back to the other gods. dont let the world steal it from you.

Anonymous said...

Oh Budweiser, how I worship thee!

boomSLANG said...

Once again, there's an over-flux of "Anonymous" posts. Okay, have it your way. The Anonymous Christian who uses run-on sentences wrote:

the sacrifice was enough; we can begin living a life of joy, of, and with Him.[bold and punctuation added]

Anony--you seem to missing the point of what many here are trying to say. WHAT "sacrifice"???? And no, I don't mean "which" sacrifice---we know that rap, already. What I mean is, explain the concept in terms of logic and reason--so it doesn't contradict itself.

BTW, whether it is/was, or whether it isn't/wasn't a "sacrifice", apparently, it WAS NOT "enough". In other words, there's an "outstanding balance". The whole concept of "redemption through Christ" is non-sensical from a logical standpoint, and now's your chance to set the record straight. Waiting.

south2003 said...

Annoy said: “i have centered my life around alot of wrong things they brought me some satifaction for a little while but over time just left me empty wondering if drugs or sex was all there was to life and then we died. i made them my god and they let me down in the end they couldnt save me just numb the pain. and know that i have met who i was wanting all my life without knowing it all.”

If you feel that having a belief in [name your god here] aided you to live a non-destructive life then by all means keep the belief. The same can be said – Alcoholic’s Anonymous (AA) helps with sobriety and a detoxification clinic helps with drug abuse. Dropping your cholesterol level reduces your chances of a heart attack, and with a proper diet and exercise stabilizes your blood pressure. But, if this is your way to “convince” us about some [insert your favorite god here], try again. Those in other beliefs can say the same – I have met who I was wanting all my life….”

Question and be honest:

If you were to find out beyond the shadow of a doubt that your god tales were all lies, would you go back to being destructive to yourself i.e. drugs? If not, then why?

south2003 said...

Annoy said:"blah blah...there are some interesting references to other gods in the old testament and some in the new as well. the topic can be pretty involved and interesting. what are some of your thoughts on other gods."

Which one of the 8,000+ would you like to start with?

I personally like Thor, no, Hercules...ahh damn Zeus I'm sorry. What about you? Oh don't tell me....Yahweh, right?

-yawns enough to see fillings-

Lorena said...

>Anonymous
i have centered my life around alot of wrong things they brought me some satifaction for a little while but over time just left me empty wondering if drugs or sex was all there was to life and then we died.

>Lorena
I hate to break the news to you, anonymous Christian, but Jesus wears off after a while, too.

At the beginning, the religion causes your brain to release a bunch of feel-good hormones that produce temporary happiness. After a while, however, you're left out in the cold looking for another "fix" to your misery. And you feel more miserable than before, I might add.

Anonymous said...

south2003,
yes you are exactly right and i belive God was revealing the truth of himself in many ways to them and the procesed it the best they could. some procesed it better than other some took a really bad turn (aztecs). i think the flood story illustrates this as it appears in many difrent cultures. you can find difrent religions trying to express the same basic ideas in difrent ways they all saw in shadows as they say. out of Gods pleasure He chose the hebrews to reveal even more of himself and ultimately Jesus is the fullest revealation of God. i also think that is why you will find it hard to worship thor because when they heard the good news of Jesus they left their inferior understanding for the truth they were looking for.
and if i found out it was all i lie i would join saint paul in his comment in 1 corinthians 15:32 "if the dead are not raised then let us eat and drink for tommorrow we die" but i believe because a relationship i have with God that is available and offerd to all. dont settle for second best.

Anonymous said...

boomslang,
i will answer the best i can but some of this does sound contradictory just like light in science which exist as both a particle and a wave which cannot be but still is.
i will offer a couple of views mostly because the bible offers a couple of views that run parrallel and are to be understood together. 1)the temple in the sacrifice of animals in the old test a person layed their hands on the animal and confessed their sins representing the transfer of their sins to the sacrifice. but it is impossible for an animal to take away sins as the letter of hebrews tells us the old test provided a picture of what Jesus was going to do who was the perfect sacrifice once and for all people. 2)redemption- in ancient times a person in dept could sell himself into slavery to work of that debt and if a person was walking through the slave market and wanted to pay off the debt of the slave and set him free he could if he wanted. i believe it is correct to say we are slaves of this world but we are not capable of working it off but Jesus death on the cross is the payment of the debt that sets us free. image 3)law court- justification is a legal term meaning if you went to court and were legally aquited you were justified. an illustration of that is 2 friends one became a judge the other a criminal that was guilty of a crime and came before his friend the judge. the judge found him guilty because he was and issued a fine that his friend the crimanal couldnt afford. so after pronouncing him guilty took of his robe and wrote a check because they were friends. im sure you get the picture for now.
it was a sacrifice because Jesus/God physically died and expierienced the seperation from God the Father which is why He cried out Father why have you forsaken me. He took the punishment for us so we would not have to. yes i know how can Jesus be seperated from the Father when they are one and the same. i dont know. we could discuss the trinity if you want is the best understanding of God man has been able to express even though it seems contradictory all the statements are non the less true. i know i know i know it makes no sense its the best i can do.

Anonymous said...

lorena,
thankyou for correcting me that was very careless of me and your comment are very true the Christian life is more than feelings its truth and especially when i have to make confession for my sins i must face many feelings that i dont want to admitt but non the less i did somebody wrong. sometimes the truth hurts but we cant grow without facing it.

mearimage said...

I think that most people that are devout to whatever religion, are devout for the wrong reasons. They do 'good' things because 'god' says to...not because it's just the right thing to do. They do good things because it will get them into heaven. Not because they inherently know that killing someone is just wrong. Jeez, aren't we all glad that god was here to tell us what was wrong and right so we don't have to think on our own? Everybody sins. No matter how many loopholes the christians put in there 'revisions' of the bible (If it's the word of god....how the hell can it be revised?), they are all sinners, because even the minutest of acts ("Wow, she's is HOT!), is considered a sin. To me Contradiction and Religion are one in the same. Oh, but if you do sin, you can beg for forgiveness and everythings cool....how convenient. There is always an excuse, reason, belief to counteract logical thinking. I have a question....Why don't we stone people to death anymore? It was apparently the thing to do in the bible, could it be that it was wrong? Didn't make much sense maybe? Oh, yeah, love your mother and father and brother, but not more that you love Jesus...better yet, you better hate them all if you want to get into heaven....but hate is a sin, so.....wow, this gets confusing.

mearimage said...

Oh yeah, God is omniscient, and omnipotent. So: He knows everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen.....It is all part of his plan that starts at your conception, right? So every murder-god's plan
The Holocaust-god's plan
Every abortion-god's plan
Every school bus accident-god's plan
Every stupid thing on the earth-god's plan
So...disbelief in dieties...god's plan? What's the fuckin point. To give a mental safehaven for people that are to weak to see that we....just....are. Take a look at a patch of 1 by 1 foot square of night sky. millions of galaxies, contaning trillions or stars, surrounded by even more planets. What is all that about? God's bored and wanted something for us to look at?

forever and ever said...

What if it's not true.

Just imagine.
You die and go to hell as christian.
You arrive in hell surprised and confused.

You ask why am I hear.?
The devil answers jesus never existed.
You are hear for ever and ever because you agree with eternal torment day and night for ever and ever.
infinite punishment for finite error
Shame shame shame join the other
bigots.Hell is full of them.

aldousd said...

mearimage:

That's pretty similar to the way I see it. If a supposed god is really omipotent and omniscient then there is no way any one human should have the ability to influence said god's opinion of him. It's even more depressing than the alternative, if you ask me. This isn't to say that an emotional factor such as depressing-ness should have any bearing on it's truth or falsity. (Is 'falsity' a word?) But, I'm just trying to put it in terms that a christian, who obviously thinks occasionally with their emotions instead of reason, can understand.

freeman said...

I saw something just as equally stupid this morning. A woman was wearing a shirt that said, "Pray until SOMETHING
happens".

I am never amazed at the creativity of christians!

Anonymous said...

yes God is omnipotent and omniscent and even though it sounds contradictory the God also has another clear teaching that we can ask Him for help and to help others and that He listens. it was never His intention that anyone should rape and murder we came up with that ourselves. that might be one way we can look at the 10 commandments as maybe a promise of what life with God will look like no killing no stealing lieing about others or even haveing bad thoughts to think and that we will know Him. i think its not so much a placebo but the result of a restored relationship between us and God and each other. and we cant control the way He feels for us. He loves us no matter what. but love is more than feelings as lorena illuded to. for instance it is not love to let someone you know give up the full life they were haveing with their wife and children and slowly become addicted to gambling and damage those relationships and themselves. now there isnt always alot we have the power to do to change that but what you can do you would. you know you would because you loved them but you definatly wouldnt tell them hey joe keep the gambling it really suits you. i think that is something like what God is doing in our lives.

Barry said...

anonymous:

one way we can look at the 10 commandments as maybe a promise of what life with God will look like


maybe, could be, hope so, keep your fingers and toes crossed, rub your lucky rabbits foot, keep a horseshoe nearby, and four leaf clover handy, just in case it is true.

Best of luck