Atheist opposes act

From the Cincinatti Post

If you believe in God, knowing that Union attorney Edwin Kagin opposes something might make you support it.

Kagin is the national director for American Atheists Inc., the organization founded by famous atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair.

Kagin founded and directs Camp Quest, a summer camp in Hamilton for the children of nonbelievers.

He writes books like "Baubles of Blasphemy," a collection of essays and poems ridiculing religion. Some of them are quite funny, like the poem written to God, "Dear Intelligent Designer." Here's a sample:

"Why do we jettison out our waste so near the port of birth?

"Why should any of (our) organs quit? Were we designed just for Thy mirth?

"Why does Intelligent Design make so many people fat?

"Why have we not the grace or ease designed into the cat?"

In other words, if faith in Jesus amounts to fire insurance, Kagin's policy expired a long time ago. But he's a smart, well-informed guy, worth listening to, believer or not, when he talks about religious freedom.

Lately, he's kicking a fuss about the Public Expression Religion Act, which the U.S. House of Representatives passed Sept. 26 by a 244-173 vote.

He says a better title would be Protecting Evangelical Repression Again.

The act would make it end a long-standing practice in civil rights cases involving the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or the free exercise thereof."

If Congress or a local government violates this clause, a citizen affected by the violation can sue. If he wins, the court can order the government to pay his attorney's fees.

The act would put an end to those kind of payments.

Its sponsor, Indiana Rep. John Hostettler, said the American Civil Liberties Union or other civil rights groups use the threat of attorney's fees to blackmail governments into settling suits out of court.

Kagin says the act would eliminate a powerful tool that those with minority religious beliefs - and little financial resources - can use to protect their rights. Without that tool, it's easier for those who want the United States to become a Christian theocracy to impose their views on the rest of us.

"They want it passed so that lawyers will not try to stop people from establishing religion," Kagin said.

It's something everyone, believers in God or not, ought to be incensed about, he said.

Suppose that Islam becomes the majority religion in Boone County, for example, and the county commissioners go to local Roman Catholic schools and tell the priests to take down all the crucifixes.

"Then see how fast they (Christians) would want to be able to have lawyers go after them," Kagin said. "It's all very nice to think, 'Let's be very protected and insulated in our religious beliefs,' until the wrong religion gets in power."

Other safeguards exist to protect churches from frivolous lawsuits, Kagin said, such as the prospect of countersuits or contempt of court citations.

Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback has introduced a similar bill in the Senate, where it's expected to face stiffer opposition.

I think Kagin's right on this issue, even if he's wrong about faith in God.

These bills will do little to prevent abuse of the legal process, but will do everything to make it easier for the government to impose one religion on us all.



Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Point 1: Graet post.

Point 2: Anonymous, did you even read the post?

Point 3: Didn't Ian completely demolish this 'look in the mirror' tripe months ago?

I believe we more or less decided that being a lying, thieving, blasphemous adulterer was not really all that bad - certainly bad enough to have to suffer an eternity in hell for.

Tell you what, anonymous, go out and find something ORIGINAL - like maybe something that you yourself have actually thought of - and then you can come back and try to "save" us. Until then, don't waste our time.

Anonymous said...

Hey anonymous fundy. Its 1:30am on the Pacific coast and I just poured myself another scotch. You remind me of my mean, rotten grandfather who hated everthing and justified it by the bible. This is Exchristian and we have been immersed in your dungheap. You are much more in danger of being converted than we. I am smiling and happy and oh so free.

Anonymous said...

Ah yes, the fundies are slowly tightening the thumbscrews. Let us pray that the withered corpses of Franklin, Washington, Paine and Jefferson rise from their venerable graves and strangle these assholes in their beds.


Anonymous, why are you such a coward? Don´t you understand that any comment you deign to make here is immediately invalidated by your refusal to put your name under your pathetic, stale little rant?

Also, yes, I consider myself a good person. I consider myself a good person because I strive to be human and be a worthwhile member of society, to help and support others and to not harm anyone.
I also partly consider myself a good person because the only reward I expect in return is the keeping of the so-called "social contract". I do not demand a heaven after life like you. I do not act out of fear of hell like you. In fact I shit on your childish, self-serving, primitive beliefs and I piss on you for holding them.

And I vomit on you for your insipid attempt to force them on us. Fuck you seven ways - fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
You fucking, worthless piece of shit cocksucker.

*cocksucker is not really a very good insult, since it´s hardly a mean or vicious thing to suck someone´s cock. If someone is going to suck my cock, I won´t consider him (okay, preferably her) a bad person.

"I ask you, my friend, do you consider yourself a festering rectal wart on the asshole of humanity? No? Well, guess what!"

signed, - feel free to mail me, shithead.

Damn, jackoffs like this just piss me off.

Anonymous said...

Anony-"Hi Kurt Cameron",..glad you could visit us,...dumb-ass!(is that what you see in the mirror,..A big Dumb Ass?).

Anonymous said...

Sounds alot like Billy Graham, what a happy man!

n/a said...

Anonymous wrote:

"...I wish I could do more to show Gods' Love for you in a practical way..."

Anon, all you have shown is a religious belief based on fear and intimidation and your own desire for revenge. Whatever religion it is you follow, it sure doesn't have much to do with love. However you do remind us of why separation of church and state is so vitally important.

Peter said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
n/a said...


Instead of threatening people with lakes of fire, why don't you show us how you help the poor and tend to the sick because of your religious beliefs. You know, leading by example. You do those things, like a good Christian, right?

boomSLANG said...

Peter said: "Thank once again and I wish I could do more to show Gods' Love for you in a practical way..."

The is nothing "practical" in believing everybody sing together...!...!

Ooooh here comes Peter spammin'tail,
hopping down the fundy trail,
hippity-hoppity Jebus is on his waaaaay

Bringin' e'vry girl and boy,
a basket full of lies and ploys,
Things to make existance

He's got judgement day for Tommy
Threats for sister Sue,
A bible for your Mommy
And a sermon toooo!

Ooooh, here comes Peter spammin'tail,
hopping down the fundy trail,
hippity-hoppity happy Jebus daaaay!

Anonymous said...

gotta love ya, Boom! lol

Ill Harbor (Adam G.) said...

Well, I was very much bothered by the anonymous christian assuming that exchristians are much more sinful or filthy than they are...I try to be the best person I can be...I'm not perfect, but I try to retain the most cleanliness i can, not because of rules or religion, but for my own personal betterment, which i believe is real...bettering yourself is not just another doctrine...I try to not binge on food or alcohol, smoke or drink, I avoid unnecessary and distasteful language and behavior, avoid lying and lusting, and try to be the most open minded and kind man i can be. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be self-righteous, along with you I don't like it when people, usually christians, are that way, I know many people on this site may not consider all or some of the above things wrong, but I do believe that avoiding them has made me a happier and more balanced individual. But, I know many atheists who are "cleaner" than christians, yet the christians still claim they're safer because they believe in God or Jesus, i think this is very distorted...but i do have one complaint with the exchristians (and christians, but especially and particularly exchristians) on this site, i do not enjoy it when some of you respond to christians with unnecessary cussing, crude humor, or distasteful personal insults...i think it makes our side look less respectful, and so i would appreciate if you would be the better men, or women, and not stoop down to that y'all...adam g.

Ill Harbor (Adam G.) said...

by the way, i know it's not all of you who write distasteful things or interact with christians rude or crudely, it's just some of you, don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to generalize...and i'm not trying to chastise or scold those of you who have done it before...i'm just trying to politely ask for consideration the best i can...thanks...once again, love y'all...adam g.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:

"Do you think you've kept the Ten Commandments? Well lets try a few and see how you do...Have you ever told a lie?"

Do you think you even know the ten commandments? The command does not strictly prohibit lying. It says, "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor." Go look it up in Exodus 20 or Deuteronomy 5.

Ex-christians, no matter what you've done to hurt other people, just remind yourself that's not what you are about. Forgive yourself and move on. Being brought back from the dead at the end of time just to be thrown in the lake of fire is an impossible idea only a primitive could believe in.

Anonymous said...


I wish anonymous' post hadn't been removed. I didn't get a chance to read it, and from the responses, I would have been salivating to retort, and besides, I'm just feelin' surly,

Anonymous said...

Back on topic...

My sister-in-law (pagan, but still very sympathetic to Xtianity) was complaining yesterday that Xtians are being attacked on all sides because everyone is being hoodwinked by the radical fundies.

I told her it was their own fault for not distancing themselves from the fundies and trying to ride the radical's coattails into a 'brave new world' of national Christian values. Then you get all the insidious laws that nibble away at the separation of Chrurch and State and that's why you get such a backlash (as in a school getting sued for letting a student read the bible at lunch, which ws what started the whole discussion.)What can we expect when a not-insigificant minority starts to feel threatened by a large majority?

JayBird said...

Hey anonymous,

You should know there is no truth allowed in here.
They're so mad about God it's obvious they're mad AT God, simply supporting his existance. Their anger actually proves his existance. God is actually the focus of their frustrations. Why would someone who doesn't exist make people so angry?

Hi all it's your favorite "fundie"...
COME ON! let a little bit of truth in least once in a while....

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