The ExChristian.Net blog exists for the express purpose of encouraging those who have decided to leave Christianity behind. This area contains articles sent in between January 2001 and February 2010. To view recent posts, click on the "Home" link.
Godamn fuckin imaginary fuckin religion.All imaginary. Good job! Tell us more to debunk this greatest fuckin lie on earth!
Wow, Anon----if you feel THAT strongly about it, 'seems like you'd have all the "ammunition" you'd need to debunk it. Right? = )
He does have all the ammunition he needs. It's called the Bible.
Personally, I think this is a fairly weak argument (keep in mind that I don't believe in Jesus as a savior). Learning about the other saviors of history, such as Mithras and Dionysis, pretty much convinced me that the Jesus in the bible is mythology.By the way, this argument came from whywontgodhealamputees.com. There are lots of excellent points there and the site is definitly worth a look.
"He does have all the ammunition he needs. It's called the Bible."So true, the bible is "self-debunking", isn't it?
Is He Is or Is he Ain'tJesus doesn’t have to be non-existent to invalidate the cult that grew around him before and certainly after his death. The Roman Empire records and the birth records in Bethlehem give the evidence that a man named Jesus from the area of Nazareth, thus a Nazarene, did indeed exist and subsequently was put to death by the Roman Govt. for sedition and revolutionary behavior. There are arguments as to who is responsible for the execution. Of course Rome says it was the Judeans and Harod, and of course Israel says it was Rome and the Roman Governor Pontius Pilot. Either way, he did live and die just like any other human at that time or this. The supposition that Jesus of Nazareth came back from the dead is what Christianity is based upon. No resurrection, no church. Where I have a major problem is in the resurrection. I don’t see the point or purpose. And based on lack of evidence for either I invalidate Christianity and all it revolves around. Another major problem with the Christian cult is the double talk. On one hand the believer is told to follow the commandments and do them and then they are told that they only have to deal with the reader’s digest condensed version. Then on top of that reduced list, they are told not to worry about the law because Jesus of Nazareth did it all and then paid the price for breaking the laws. I guess he paid just in case he missed fulfilling one or two.Anything I believe in has to make sense enough for me to figure out and apply to my life. If it falls short, then it falls out.
Dear Jesus;We know that you are in our mist already. We ask you to physically appear so that we may know you are resurected, we have faith that you will answer our prayer as you promise in the Bible, in your name we pray. Amen We're waiting Jesus! Please do not disappoint us, Thanks!!!
Interestingly, there is lots of evidence that Jesus as a person did indeed exist. However, I don't believe in him as a son of god.
"The Roman Empire records and the birth records in Bethlehem give the evidence that a man named Jesus from the area of Nazareth, thus a Nazarene, did indeed exist and subsequently was put to death by the Roman Govt. for sedition and revolutionary behavior."Untrue. Myth. Lie. Nazareth did not exist at the time. How can a person be a Nazarene if there was no Nazareth? I suggest that you look at your sources to see if there is an agenda there.
Has anyone else ever read that John, Mary & Jesus were the 3 most common names during the supposed time of the "Jesus Christ" Jesus? How convenient!That means they could have been any ole' John, Mary or Jesus standing around at that time! Whoopee!
Um. Roman birth records? Birth records IN BETHLEHEM?I have NEVER, EVER heard about this. Don´t you think Christian fundies would be rubbing them under our noses all the time if they existed?As far as I know, the only actual evidence that Jesus Christ actually exists is the existence of Christianity itself.Ian: Is that Skye Sauron in your pic?
"Roman Empire records and the birth records in Bethlehem give the evidence that a man named Jesus from the area of Nazareth, thus a Nazarene, did indeed exist and subsequently was put to death by the Roman Govt. for sedition and revolutionary behavior."These do not exist. They, like Jesus,are imaginary. The New Testament is the ONLY supposed evidence we have of Jesus' existence, as all extra-Biblical writings are far, after after the time supposed time of Jesus' death.The Bible itself cannot be evidence, because a document cannot be evidence for itself.So the question remains: whatevidence is there of Jesus' existence?The answer, of course, is none.Christianity is not evidence of his existence, otherwise Greek mythology is evidence for the existence of Zeus, Apollo, Ares, Venus, and a myriad of other Greek gods and, indeed, Christianity being evidence for Jesus would mean Harry Potter is evidence for flying broomsticks.There is no evidence that Jesus ever existed.Meanwhile, I agree with you on the doublespeak. It's part of their disease. People suffering from NPD often use doublespeak, responding literally when you speak metaphorically, and vice versa.
Why would Jesus waste His time proving His existence to you? No one at this site would believe you if you said that you saw Him, or that your insipid little prayer worked. Anyone could post with your often-used nicknames, claiming that they had seen Jesus in an attempt, a weak attempt, to debunk this site.Deep down inside, you know that you don't want Jesus Christ to exist. You don't want Christianity's claims to be true. So Jesus is simply giving you what you want, an excuse not to believe. That's why He won't appear to you, not because He isn't real.
Deep down inside, you know that you don't want Harry Potter to exist. You don't want Harry Potter's claims to be true, that Lord Voldemort is evil. So Harry Potter is simply giving you what you want, an excuse not to believe in the goodness of Lord Voldemort. That's why He won't appear to you, not because He isn't real.The neurological synthesis of information moves from potential energy to kinetic results, of which, imaginary objects are oft the result. It appears that many religionists/preachers, namely "John Hagee", don't like the correlation between their imaginary object and someone elses', not to mention, that many religionists are control addicts, they desire their followers to fixate all of their neurological bandwidth on one imaginary object, and rely on them as their sole guide.The imagination wasn't meant to be controlled/suppressed by a slew of insecure individuals who pilfer mental energy from the masses.
"Why would Jesus waste His time proving His existence to you?"I was under the impression that Jesus loves every single one of us, and wants to save us from Hell. As such, I would think it would be a trivial thing for Jesus to do what he promises he will do and appear to people who casll out to him when they gather 'in his name'.I have been to church, and in church, people gather in his name and call out to him. Yet he does not appear. Jesus did not appear to me when I believed in him, and he does not appear now. Jesus is imaginary.Or, are you going to tell me Jesus appears to us in the form of love? If so, I say to you that it is easy to have love without Jesus. So easy, in fact, it may be the single easiest thing to do in human history.And since we can have love without Jesus . . . *dun-dun-dun!* . . . what is the point of Christianity?"No one at this site would believe you if you said that you saw Him, or that your insipid little prayer worked." . . . duh.But we're not talking about hearing SOMEONE ELSE claim they saw Jesus, or Elvis, or UFOs, or Bigfoot, or Gandalf the Grey, or pink unicorns, or flying spaghetti monsters.We're talking about Jesus appearing to anyone who asks him to. Why take your word on it when we can see it for ourselves?So . . . where He Be?"Anyone could post with your often-used nicknames, claiming that they had seen Jesus in an attempt, a weak attempt, to debunk this site." . . . okay. I don't see your point, but if you say so. Once again, we're not talking about someone else's claims, we're talkin' 'bout dat dere good ol' time religion when da' gods appur write ba'fo yo' own eyes!So why didn't Jesus appear when I believed, and why doesn't he appear now?"Deep down inside, you know that you don't want Jesus Christ to exist."Looks like my wishes were granted.There is no Jesus Christ.Otherwise, surely he would take the time to pay me a visit and discuss the current geo-political spectrum with me? I'd love to hear parables on the destruction of the environment."You don't want Christianity's claims to be true."They're already not. Have ya' seen the damn video, lad? Christianity claims he will appear, yet all we see is no Jesus.Ergo, Christianity is not true."So Jesus is simply giving you what you want, an excuse not to believe. That's why He won't appear to you, not because He isn't real."So now you claim to speak for Jesus?Well, do me a favor then and ask him what he thought of the movie production of Rent.Seeing as how he can't tell me hisself and all :)
To John:If I'm reading you correctly, then what you're saying is that if Jesus would appear to a particular person, then that would prove he was real to that person, but not to everyone else, and if Jesus does not appear to that person, then that proves he's real to everyone.I guess the same applies for answered and unanswered prayer. If the prayer is answered, then Jesus exists. If the prayer is unasnwered, then Jesus exists. No matter what, Jesus exists.It seems to me, John, that you are the one who just wants something to be true, and will go through whatever mental gymnasitics it takes to cling to your belief. You said, "That's why he won't appear to you..." Really? Who told you that? Do you imagine yourself a mouthpiece for Jesus? Or do you just know what HE thinks about things? Or does he actually appear to you, not in your mind, but in person?
Once again, we see crippled logic coming from the Christian peanut gallery:Quote: "Deep down inside, you know that you don't want Jesus Christ to exist. You don't want Christianity's claims to be true. So Jesus is simply giving you what you want, an excuse not to believe. That's why He won't appear to you, not because He isn't real." Here again, "God exists", but it's ALWAYS in terms of the negative: "God WON'T do" this or that; "God is NOT" this or that; "God DOESN'T need to prove" this or that; "God DOESN'T need a reason", etc. Religious convictions like John's literally FORCE people to "validate" their belief in terms of what their God can't, won't, or doesn't need to do. Well, there's a good reason for that. How about a young boy with muscular dystrophy? There he sits in his cold metal chair at the window, day after day, watching all of his neighborhood friends playing basketball, only to know that he never will. I suppose this child "doesn't want" Jesus to exist either, right? After all, he has been taught that Jesus can "work miracles"; Jesus can "do the impossible"; Jesus "is compassionate"; Jesus is "omnipotent"; Jesus "cares"; Jesus is "just"...and of course, that "if" one believes?....Jesus will, at the very least, hear their prayers. I mean, after all, it would be reasonable to assume that anyone in that position would try EVERY possible option, and that would include praying to God, I would think. Yet, as reasonable thinking human beings---and knowing that there are MILLIONS with this dreadful disease---we are to believe that, yes, Jesus CAN in fact do all of the above mentioned feats, "AND MORE"....but in the case where God "chooses" NOT do anything(there again, we see what God WON'T do)...our only option is to keep believing because it's "God's plan". And if we don't accept this "plan", it's because "we don't want God to exist". Yeah, sure buddy. Please, take your apologetic tripe somewhere else.
I saw the vid, did not read the comments so far. I can't say I'm a believer. I can't say I am a non believer either. In my opinion, church messed up history enough for biblical things to be real anyway. That may include Jesus. I do not need this kind of proof. For me, the bible cannot be trusted enough to be the basis of any hypothesis like this. So I state that Jesus MIGHT BE imaginary. If he is not, let us hope he will bring us something good for a change.
"Deep down inside, you know that you don't want Jesus Christ to exist. You don't want Christianity's claims to be true. So Jesus is simply giving you what you want, an excuse not to believe. That's why He won't appear to you, not because He isn't real." Are you suggesting he HAS appeared to you, so that's how you know this? Or are you in exactly the same boat, John, and he never has, and won't appear to you either. Because seriously, to take the stance 'well he won't appear to YOU, naturally' really does imply that you think you'd qualify. We wait with baited breath.And how predictable that you paint your invisible pal Jesus as a big sulky Jesus, in the image of yourself. A Jesus the amazing, perfect, infinitely wise, all-loving one, who would just operate out of immature spite and says Na na na na boo boo, you didn't believe in imaginary flying spirits so take your prayer and shove it, I WANT you to go to hell?Geez. At least some people who feel they must believe in gods are capable of conceiving a 'perfect deity' who operates at a level higher than the average base human motivations that we find really unattractive and repulsive in people. You, John, are not. Jesus won't appear to anyone, regardless of belief status, John, because Jesus is, in fact, imaginary.
This does not disprove the existence of Jesus.It debunks the bible, but the bible can be completely and utterly debunked, and it still doesn't prove that Jesus doesn't exist any more than it proves that the easter bunny doesn't exist.
Okay, honestly you like so many billions of other people have completely missed the whole point of the christian faith. This is a point almost all christians have missed, it doesn't matter if Jesus was real or not, it is a story, a parable, a metaphor, listen to the simple basic teachings of jesus and stop trying to prove or disprove anything. Don't shoot the messanger, just listen to the message. That said Christianity has so obscurred the original message that just turn to Buddhism read Osho, forget this b.s. of whether J.C. was real or not, who cares, be in the moment. "there is only one moment, please don't waste it" - Zen Proverb.
Fundanonymous said: "...the bible can be completely and utterly debunked, and it still doesn't prove that Jesus doesn't exist any more than it proves that the easter bunny doesn't exist."Right, and since a literary work that has been debunked cannot "prove" that the Easter bunny doesn't exist, then that means what, then?....that the Easter bunny DOES exist, right? No, wrong.....but I have a feeling that if Mr. Cottontail offered you eternal life in exchange for belief, I'd bet he'd "exist", too.
This argument is a non-sequitur. Ignoring the quoted Bible verses for a moment, note that if you pray for X, and X doesn't occur, what have you proven? Nothing. If God exists, he is not obligated to follow your orders. He is not a circus monkey trained to do tricks whenever we ask. Back to the Bible, quoting a Bible verse or two our of context doesn't prove anything. The fact that Jesus appeared to many people shortly after His resurrection doesn't mean He still will appear in the same way today, and nothing in the text suggests that He will. Note that Jesus *had* to appear to people after His resurrection to demonstrate that he had risen; it is no longer a necessity in that way. Also, in Matthew 18:19-20 Jesus was speaking to and referring to His disciples, not to unbelievers, and "anything" means anything that is not contrary to God's purposes; that is the reasonable reading of the text. This argument could only work if God was some sort of cosmic machine, taking and filling requests automatically instead of autonomously, which is not the case in the Christian faith.
Quote: "This argument is a non-sequitur. Ignoring the quoted Bible verses for a moment, note that if you pray for X, and X doesn't occur, what have you proven? Nothing. If God exists, he is *not obligated to follow your orders."*Notice, once again, how the implication is that "God exists" in terms of what God does NOT do, or what God can-NOT do.... or in this case, what God does NOT feel like doing. If I pray to the Great Pumpkin, and the Great Pumpkin does NOT answer my prayers, true, that is not evidence that such a thing doesn't exist, however, it is not evidence that such a thing DOES exist, either. Even the greenest of religious debaters should know that the burden of proof falls into the lap of the one making the claim. Neither a Great Pumpkin, nor a deity, can be "defaulted" into existance. For future reference, please show us what God CAN and WILL do, for a change---something he/she/it can do consistantly, and make sure it's the IMpossible. In other words, someone being healed from cold sore is not a "miracle". Please show something like a severed limb that regenerates itself over night. Waiting, but not holding my breath.Quote: " Back to the Bible, quoting a Bible verse or two our(out) of context doesn't prove anything."Nope, it doesn't prove anything, unless of course, it's you, the believer, doing the quoting and the interpreting, right?... as we see here: Quote: "...in Matthew 18:19-20 Jesus was speaking to and referring to His disciples, not to unbelievers, and "anything" means anything that is not contrary to God's purposes; that is the reasonable reading of the text."A perfect example of the subjectiveness of biblical scripture.
"If God exists, he is not obligated to follow your orders. He is not a circus monkey trained to do tricks whenever we ask."Perhaps not. Would you care to elucidate God's mind on what qualifies as a real prayer, one that He will answer?Thought not."...quoting a Bible verse or two our of context doesn't prove anything."Perhaps you're right. Please cite some examples of the contextual errors to which you refer to. I'm assuming you are well-versed in ANE studies, Koine Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and have access to all the extant documents so as to avoid the inevitable problems that arise from using a flawed English text.You aren't? You don't? Gosh, what on Earth qualifies you to talk about context then?"Note that Jesus *had* to appear to people after His resurrection to demonstrate that he had risen; it is no longer a necessity in that way."Please cite the biblical verses (or anything else) that delineate precisely when this requirement ended. Presumably, if Jesus was required to at one time, and no longer is, there must be some text or tradition that describes when this requirement ended.
"Notice, once again, how the implication is that "God exists" in terms of what God does NOT do, or what God can-NOT do"No such implication was made. As you say, "the burden of proof falls into the lap of the one making the claim", and the claim here is that this "proves" Jesus is "imaginary", which is what my comment was about. I was not implying that my post somehow proved God exists, or anything else like that."A perfect example of the subjectiveness of biblical scripture.""I'm assuming you are well-versed in ANE studies, Koine Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and have access to all the extant documents so as to avoid the inevitable problems that arise from using a flawed English text."You're saying you need all of that to come to a reasonable understanding of a biblical passage? Then how exactly did the author of this video arrive at his/her interpretation of the text? In fact, understanding of Greek (or whatever) is not necessary to arrive at a reasonable understanding of a biblical passage. What's required is some basic biblical understanding (including reading in context and considering the verse(s) you're studying in light of the rest of the Bible) and common sense. For example, if someone says to you "I didn't do anything today." would you assume they didn't breathe all day? No, since "anything" would not be being used in the literal sense."Presumably, if Jesus was required to at one time, and no longer is, there must be some text or tradition that describes when this requirement ended."There is none, it is just logical that if Jesus were risen he would have to appear to at least some people afterwards, but there is no necessity that he would continue to appear for years afterwards. Note that there is also no text that promises Jesus will appear to me/you personally and/or physically whenever you feel like it. Could God appear to us today? If God exists, there would be no reason why He couldn't. But *would* He? Perhaps, perhaps not. Jesus seems to speak to this issue directly when he quotes the Old Testament in the desert: "Do not put the Lord your God to the test." (ie artificial tests)I probably won't be checking back here again so please don't misconstrue lack of reply for the inability to reply ;)
"You're saying you need all of that to come to a reasonable understanding of a biblical passage?"Actually, I was making a point about the objection raised often by Christians that non-believers quoting the Bible are guilty of taking such-and-such verse out of context. The point being that no one, not even a well-educated and seasoned Christian apologist, can discern the One True Context from which biblical doctrine may be derived. In some cases, context seems quite apparent. In others, not so much. In the latter case, apologists will talk about the original languages and/or the culture in which the authors lived in order to spin a troublesome verse in their favor. Basically, apologists use "context" as their catch-all word to throw at those who, in their opinion, don't understand the text."What's required is some basic biblical understanding..."Which most of the folks here have in excess, except seemingly our Christian counterparts."...it is just logical that if Jesus were risen he would have to appear to at least some people afterwards, but there is no necessity that he would continue to appear for years afterwards."What was the necessity in the first place? To prove his exalted state to his disciples and others, no? What you're saying is that God no longer sees fit to bother showing His reality to anyone, and will condemn anyone to an eternity of torture because we "don't believe everything we read."Nice God you got there, nony."Do not put the Lord your God to the test."Funny. Christians occasionally drop in and advise us to ask the Lord to prove himself to us. When I brought up the verse you mentioned, one poster commented that asking for this isn't a test. So, which of you is the True Christian?"I probably won't be checking back here again so please don't misconstrue lack of reply for the inability to reply ;)"Whatever you say, nony.
Original quote in it's entirety: Anony: "This argument is a non-sequitur. Ignoring the quoted Bible verses for a moment, note that if you pray for X, and X doesn't occur, what have you proven? Nothing. If God exists, he is not obligated to follow your orders."My initial response: "Notice, once again, how the implication is that 'God exists' in terms of what God does NOT do, or what God can-NOT do"I left out the word "if" before "God exists". My over-sight. Notwithstanding, my rebuttal was refering to your analogy about prayer, NOTHING else....so, revised it would be--"Notice, once again, how the implication is that "*if God exists", it is always in terms of what God does NOT do, or what God can-NOT do.... or in this case, what God does NOT feel like doing."I still stand by this.Anony said: "I was not implying that my post somehow proved God exists, or anything else like that."Yet, when we see a post riddled with "excuses" why God "doesn't" do this or that, we don't need to hire Columbo to figure out motive. From my experience around here---if it walks and talks like duck?...it's generally a duck.Quote: "Then how exactly did the author of this video arrive at his/her interpretation of the text?"How? They took the quoted verses AT FACE VALUE, assuming it says what it means, and means what it says. In order to circumvent the blantant contradictions, the religionist needs to either throw out entire verses, or weasle-word the ACTUAL text to have it make "sense", obviously forgetting about the 1500+ denominations, each telling you that their interpretation is THEE correct one. Let us remember, Christians fall on opposite sides of the fence regarding such things as abortion, the death penalty, gay marriage, divorce, war.... and the list goes on. My original statement, that ALL religious belief is subjective, still stands.Quote: "What's required is some basic biblical understanding (including reading in context and considering the verse(s) you're studying in light of the rest of the Bible) and common sense."So in other words, assume that the "rest of the bible" is true, and then each extracted verse will make sense. Boy, how convenient. I think I'll apply my "common sense" and say that THAT is just a bit subjective, too. LMAO!Quote: "For example, if someone says to you 'I didn't do anything today.' would you assume they didn't breathe all day?"No, I wouldn't. But if they said "I didn't do anything today......well, except swim in river of blood, talk to Peter the Python, went to a witch doctor; and then hitched a ride home on a firey chariot"...I could "assume" that they are either lying, or on some seriously good drugs---and any logical person would assume the same because those things DEFY logic.Quote: "Note that there is also no text that promises Jesus will appear to me/you personally and/or physically whenever you feel like it. Could God appear to us today? If God exists, there would be no reason why He couldn't. But *would* He? Perhaps, perhaps not."If God existed and made his existance known to ALL of humankind, "Faith" would become obsolete. ' Funny how that works."Parting" words: "I probably won't be checking back here again so please don't misconstrue lack of reply for the inability to reply ;)"Anon---you've already demonstrated your inability to show that your world-view is any kind of "Universal Truth". Your future response, or lack of, produces the same result. Nothing.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.It is not extraordinary to doubt the fables of ancient civilizations. In fact, every Christian doubts the myriad myths and fables strewn throughout history, except of course for nonsensical tales splattered across the pages of their own holy book. I can claim UFOs are phony, that Sasquatch is a figment of people’s imagination, and that there is no gold at the end of any rainbow. I don’t have to give evidence to support those statements. What I am saying is I don’t think any of that stuff exists! I doubt it! I am skeptical of it! I can also say there is no such things as magic and still I don’t have to find the “proof” that magic doesn’t exist.It comes to those making positive assertions of magical beings to present evidence that such outrageous beings exist. But, I’ve wasted my time, because you won’t be back.
It seems much more likely that Jesus is a synthesis of many of the common mythologic themes of his day.To be born of a virgin mother and a father who is a god was shared by other figures at the time including Hercules.Many of the myths surroundind his life such as Herod slaughtering of the innocents was a common theme for jealous opponents to try to eliminate gods of that time. Herod's life is well documented by Josephus and other scolars and never is there a mention of such an atrocious crime.When Jesus died there were earthquakes and the earth went dark for seveal days yet nowhere are there any contemporary writers to corroborate such occurances. The Chinese were quite meticulous about noting important events and it would be hard to ignore having the sun disappear for several days.Plus the whole myth of his birthday. December 25 was actually the birthday of the Roman god Mithra who existed for eight hundred years before the creation of Christ and is remarkably similar so the early Christians just borrowed Mithra's life story so that Jesus would fit in.The fact that man has created some 2,500 gods over our brief history just shows that humans are quite inclined to mss delusional thinking.The list is almost endless
I don't know. I'm not a Christian, but I see no reason to debunk Christianity over any other religion. Other people (aside from the obviously enlightened folks here) use religion to give them a sense of purpose in life, or morals. I think Frued refers to the creation of God by man (woman is usually inferior in most religion I'm sorry to say) as the need for a father figure in life. I think spirituality in any shape is reasonable for a person to have in his life. The tradgedy is when they use that spirituality to justify things that are in direct contradiction to the teachings of their faith (Inquisitions, subservient women, polygamy, Jihadists and what have you). I'm not claiming to be a theology expert, and am personally agnostic, but I think it's suspect that hundereds of religions across the globe, before many of these people knew each other, taught don't steal, don't cheat, family is boss and all that jazz. I don't know if that proves the existence of god or not, but it certainly seems to indicate that most humans are born with a natural sense of morality (which of course can be twisted and distorted to serve religion as well). All the same I AM tired of these hypocrit Christians, who can't figure out their own doctrines, and understand that Christ said VERY clearly the two BIGGEST commandments were love God and love your neighbor. Any Christian who can't do THAT gets an F in Christianity."If you smile at me I will understand, cause that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language"Crosby Stills and Nash
SNAP!!!Jesus Is Imaginary http://beepbeepitsme.blogspot.com/2006/09/jesus-is-imaginary_27.html
That doesn't prove that Jesus is imaginary... that simply proves that the Christian doctrine is not exactly as it appears to be. Believe it or not, there is a difference. The one thing I can't stand more than hardcore Bible beaters is hardcore Bible bashers.
Personally, I used to be catholic. I just quit believing because people told me it was okay that god supposedly killed several thousand people at sodom and gommorah and innocent babies in egypt. Sounds more like satan to me, at least he never directly killed ne one...
There is none, it is just logical that if Jesus were risen he would have to appear to at least some people afterwards, but there is no necessity that he would continue to appear for years afterwards.This cracked me up. A fundie invoking logic to defend their statements...http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/logicApparently, Webster's doesn't agree with your usage of the word 'logic'Or did I just take the dictionary out of context...? Yeah, that must be it...I always get a kick out of the things religious folk tell themselves to convince themselves they are right, and that the logical, reasoning world of science is wrong...How foolish of you. How can you believe in something so ridiculous? You should know by now, there is no salvation without the Flying Spaghetti Monster.http://www.venganza.orgMay you be touched by His noodly appendage...P.S. If the threat of eternal damnation is what you religious folk need to not steal, kill, commit adultery... then by all means, go Jesus go! If you lack the moral fiber as a human to not kill, steal and commit adultery just by knowing it is wrong, then let's make sure you all get two heaping spoonfuls of Jesus and FearOfGod a day, eh? You wankers are crazy enough as it is... it scares the crap outta me to think of how you would act if you actually understood there is no god.Y'all would probably end up hanging from the chandeliers throwing feces at each other.
I occasionally like to ask Christians if they think they would instantly become murderers, rapists, thieves or unrestrained hedonists simply by leaving Christianity. Those who are honest with themselves admit the answer is no.
So a lot of folks here are saying "this doesn't prove that jesus doesn't exist, it only proves the bible is wrong."They seem to have forgotten the only thing that ever told us about Jesus in the first place, was the bible.Therefore, if the bible is wrong... why would you still think Jesus exists? He only exists in the bible, and we just determined that the bible is wrong.
Seems that people believe proving Christianity is fake (which is obvious) and proving that God does not exist are the same thing. I would strongly disagree.
Seems that people believe proving Christianity is fake (which is obvious) and proving that God does not exist are the same thing. I would strongly disagree.I agree Christianity is bunk. I would disagree that the Ex-christian and/or Atheist position implies that disproving one, disproves the other. It's apples and oranges. In fact, only in the Christian mindset would that apply, because they assume their "Biblegod" to be the "One True God". Interestingly, their "God" has human attributes, human characteristics, human emotions, human needs, human desires, and presumably centered 125 billion gallaxies around "His" crowning jewel acheivement---humans. "He" apparently even has a penis. Absurd. Anyway, these attributes would make such a deity a personal "God"---a human-like "being" interested in the affairs of humans; a "being" they posit as being objective, when said deity is anything BUT objective. On the other hand, if we speak of a truly objective/universal supernatural entity, it would be beyond our scope of understanding, thus, it cannot be known with absolute certainty if a supernatural non-personal entity exists. If such an entity should exist, it would, and should, defy physical description/comprehension.
You don't see him?Too bad.Saving Whores for Jesusreverendcolin.com
The problem with your video is that, as you claim, you have to be a "normal" and intelligent person, to understand this. There are many very intelligent people that believe in religion.what you (or I) consider normal, is NOT what they consider normal so they will use all the intelligence they have to keep the shroud of ignorance and dogma covering their own eyes.
I just farted.
Anonymous, that was just the holy ghost moving within you.
He appeared, for just a second, he appeared
What about the writings of Josphius? A non christian that wrote about jesus and even gave a discription of him.
Click here for information on the writings of Josephus on Jesus:
The video is interesting. However, you err. Matthew 18:19-20 should be taken IN context, not OUT of context. What issue is the text addressing? This goes for Christians and atheists alike who use these verses to show that Jesus promises to be in our midst. The context is talking about him being in our midst for a specific purpose. Think: salvation, justification, sanctification are personal matters, correct? Then why does he mention two or three? Think before you speak. Pray before you think.Other than that, your assertion that Jesus is imaginary is of no surprise. I expect no less from a non-believer other than such an attack on a matter that deals with a realm with which you are obviously not familiar. Of course it seems imaginary to you. Ever read "The Holographic Universe"? Perhaps everything we think is real is really not.If you only ever existed in darkness, of course the idea of light would be imaginary, even offensive, to you. "Argh! Don't normal intelligent adults know that light doesn't exist?" That's completely understandable. It's not your fault you were born in darkness. There was nothing you did to deserve it either. We all came from the same condition. That was God's decision, not yours.Only if we are brought into the light do we understand what darkness is, and that we lived in it, thinking it was all that was to be experienced. But, naturally, we fear the light. It is not our doing, it is not from our understanding. Yet, if we truly understood light, we wouldn't tempt the light to do something other than what it has specifically planned. For we would be filled with such joy just to be brought out of darkness and would love its plan, which includes us. It is only in ignorance that we try to manipulate. Why do you think Jesus was killed in the first place? Oh that's right: he couldn't have been killed if he didn't exist in the first place.
Anon uttered:>If you only ever existed in darkness, of course the idea of light would be imaginary, even offensive, to you.If we all lived in darkness and someone(s) claimed there was such a thing as 'light', how hard would it be to demonstrate this light to those who lived in total darkness. You can't see infrared or ultraviolet light waves, nor can you see radio waves or xrays or gamma rays, but we don't need faith of some holy spirit to validate their existence. We can detect them via science and technology.How would you suggest we detect your god via science and/or technology or for that matter, any empirical evidence whatsoever?If your god/jesus actually interacts with humans and our earth, then we would easily see some evidence of that. Evidence that exists outside of just your human mind and emotions.We can't even find evidence that your god answers prayer, nor healings of his own flock, not even of his own cherished leaders.Nothing happens that is attributed to your god, that is above mere chance or hearsay evidence, so if he were really intervening with human life, something beyond chance would clearly show up, but yet it never does. Why does god never grow a xtian arm or leg back, for instance?He only FEELS real to you believers, but never anyone else.Don't hand me that line that we are blinded by doubt either, for I could say the same to you about the many other gods one can pick from, who's followers make that same dang claim that you do.>Why do you think Jesus was killed in the first place? Oh that's right: he couldn't have been killed if he didn't exist in the first place. While some non-xtians believe a human jesus existed, if there was such a MAN, he was nothing out of the ordinary for sure. The name jesus was very common in those days and we have no historical records to show this magical jesus ever existed. Given all he is said to have done, all the people that were said to have followed him around, surely someone would have written a whole lot about him, but yet we have almost NOTHING to see outside your own fable book.Other than your own holy spirit emotions, can you show us historical proof that he was real and did all these marvelous things?If you can, then you are far better than the plethora of historians you have tried hard to find any writings about your jesus outside your holy book.Any great leader, especially one who could perform all those great miracles, surely would have been noteworthy to the record keepers of the day.The evidence (or lack thereof) for your god and jesus is nothing less than abysmal.Your own bible writings weren't even from first hand witnesses, but were written decades later and not by the men that knew your jesus firsthand.Wouldn't you think his own followers while still alive, would have written all those important messages from Jesus, but yet for some strange reason, did NOT. Can you do what no other xtian who's paid us a visit can do.Can you prove to us your god and/or great jesus is real and is still interacting in tangible ways with humankind today?Good luck in your huge quest and I'll look for you on the tv news as the first one to find such proof.AtheistToothFiary
Anony' suggests: Think before you speak.Anony' asks: Don't normal intelligent adults know that light doesn't exist?Don't normal intelligent gods know that "darkness" is merely the absence of light?..that darkness doesn't need to be "divided" from the "light"???? Furthermore, don't normal intelligent gods know that we don't need a "firmament" to "divide" the water(ocean) from the, uh, "water"(sky)??? Hmmmm, 'funny...it sure seems like god likes to unnecessarily "divide" things, doesn't it?...[cough] the human race?Pray before you think.Now, this, on the other hand, is great advice. For if you were to, instead, "think" before you pray, you would know that prayer is utterly useless.
Christianity, with all its faults, cannot have been created in thin air. And Paul would have been a quite amazing guy to have invented the old story. All right, maybe he was not devine. Maybe there was no resurrection if you wish. So what? Maybe he was not exactly like bible described him. But one thing is certain: Christianity originated by the witnessing of something that happened to a certain guy who was put to death because of some controversials teachings that he may have said. Remember, Judea was under the Roman occupation. In times like these guys may appeared claiming to have a "mission". About Mithra, it was followed by small minority of Romans. Christianity became a mass movement. Why? Read the social conditions of the Roman Empire. Not very "wholesome" shall we say. And one last comment: people will keep believing in this "Jesus", whatever guys like Mr. John Armstrong wants to say with arrogance insolence. They have been doing it for twenty centuries.
nony: "Christianity, with all its faults, cannot have been created in thin air."No, of course it didn't come out of "thin air". Let me make an analogy here. Creationists often characterize the theory of evolution as "it just happened by chance". Of course, that characterization is completely vacuous--nobody would seriously suggest such a thing. Similarly, nobody suggests that Christianity was simply fabricated in one sitting by some clever (or deluded) individual. In both cases there are plausible explanations and bits of evidence that point to complex precursors. In the case of Christianity, those precursors include numerous Jewish and Hellenistic threads combined with a possible "Q" tradition about an itinerant preacher. The latter had its own precursors (one of which MAY have revolved around an actual human being--but possibly not). On top of that, there were likely many competing ideas about a person named Jesus, most of which have now vanished. What is left is a single somewhat coherent story. It categorically did not pop out of thin air--but, in my opinion, neither is there compelling evidence that there was an historical Jesus behind it.nony: "And Paul would have been a quite amazing guy to have invented the old story."Paul didn't invent the Jesus story. He seems to have plunked "Jesus" into a somewhat typical Hellenistic deity role and combined it with the idea of a messiah (thus grafting on Jewish tradition and the OT). Paul apparently had only the sketchiest notion of who Jesus was. The details didn't begin to appear until the author of Mark supplied them, borrowing from numerous "hero" motifs. Luke and Matthew grafted on some dialogue from other sources, such as the hypothetical "Q" document. If you break it down into smaller steps, the invention of the Jesus character seems no different than numerous other myths (e.g. the mythology that grew up around Buddha--if, indeed, there ever was such a man).nony: "All right, maybe he was not devine. Maybe there was no resurrection if you wish. So what?"Well, then the central dogma of Christianity is false. To me that is indeed a "so what", but it clearly makes a very big difference to many Christians.nony: "Maybe he was not exactly like bible described him. But one thing is certain: Christianity originated by the witnessing of something that happened to a certain guy who was put to death because of some controversials teachings that he may have said."No, that is not certain. Far from it. The "witnesses" themselves are likely inventions. Where are the written accounts by people who actually claim to have seen Jesus? Where are the written accounts that date to the time Jesus supposedly lived?nony: "...About Mithra, it was followed by small minority of Romans. Christianity became a mass movement."Mithaism and Christianity were roughly on a par until the 4th century, when Constantine came down on the side of Christianity. The two religions (and possibly others) clearly influenced each other in Rome up until that time, borrowing artistic motifs if not deeper symbolism from one another. But the 4th century is when the tide turned, and Mithraism was effectively wiped out. Moreover, Mithraism was a Persian import. True, in Rome it was relatively short-lived (a few hundred years, perhaps), but it had a much longer history in Persia.nony: "...people will keep believing in this 'Jesus', whatever guys like Mr. John Armstrong wants to say..."True. As with many myths, this one will no doubt persist.Nony, please us a pseudonym if you with to have further discussion. Thanks.
That last sentence should read..."Nony, please use a pseudonym if you wish to have further discussion. Thanks."
Jesus has already come! He has to prove nothing to anyone. he shows up everyday in all of our lives. Let you just get sick, feeling like you are gonnna die, You, each and every one of you will pray. Let your child become diagnosed with a fatal disease and get sick enough to die. You will pray. The bible says if you won't cry out and praise Him, He will make the rocks cry out.. Youe see, He does not need us, We need Him!
HeIs...Jesus has already come!That's odd, because your Christian brethren say differently---that is, they show up here daily, insisting that Jesus "is coming"... as in, at a later time. You Xians might want to hold a brain-cell revival, this way, you can decide once and for all, where your "Divine" babysitter is, exactly. HeIs...He has to prove nothing to anyone.Oh yes.....yes, he most-certainly-the-f%ck does... that is, if "He" expects me to worship him.HeIs...he["Jesus"] shows up everyday in all of our lives.Oh really? Tell me then, what exactly does "Jesus" do when he "shows up"? If we consider the degree of human suffering in this world, it seems to me that at least 99% of the time, "he" would be sitting in his invisible lazy-boy recliner with his thumb up his ass. HeIs...Let you just get sick, feeling like you are gonnna die, You, each and every one of you will pray.No, dip-wad, you're wrong. "Prayer" is utterly useless, and even most Christians know this, or else, why would they seek medical attention when they become "sick"? HeIs...Let your child become diagnosed with a fatal disease and get sick enough to die.Um, "let" a child become terminally ill?... as if we can control it?HeIs...You will pray.You will remain a brain-washed religious dolt.HeIs... The bible says if you won't cry out and praise Him, He will make the rocks cry out..The "bible says" that if you won't "praise him", that you will be mercilessly incinerated in a "lake of fire". Oh, but he "loves us". HeIs...[You] see, He does not need us, We need Him!No, wrong again. Evidently, "He" does need us, or else "He" wouldn't have "created" us in the first place. And ironically, "He" also needs "evil", in order for our "free will" to work.
"Dear Jesus;We know that you are in our mist already. We ask you to physically appear so that we may know you are resurected, we have faith that you will answer our prayer as you promise in the Bible, in your name we pray. Amen "this is probably the weakest argument ive seen.the bible doesnt say the answer to our prayers will be yes. if im praying to be a leading cult leader in india...probably not going to happen.and secondly, the bible says we have to have faith when we pray."And whatever things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive". yea. and if you're praying that, you don't have faith.thirdly, its real praying is asking for god's will. not ours. even when Jesus prayed he said "your will be done" and i dont think god's will would be to appear when you are mocking him.and lastly, ur not praying in his name because you aren't believers in the first place. this whole thing is just absurd.and i know you were trying to be really clever by using a christian practice to debunk christianity...but..you didn't do it right.
Hey, look, everyone! Now we've got True Prayer™ to go along with all those True Christians™ gathering dust on the shelf. Let's collect a few more and then mail away for the matching cake knife and salad fork.Not!Lisa, you're imagining the whole thing. Jesus is not talking to you; you're talking to yourself and telling yourself whatever you think you're supposed to hear. The only "will" you're doing is that of whatever god-concept you happen to believe.And rationalizing your unanswered prayers with "The answer was 'no'" is not faith, either. It's something far worse: An act of bad faith against logic and reason.
It never ceases to amaze me the great lengths some will go throughto TRY & prove God & Jesus are not real. When in fact all they are really trying to do is justify their own sin. Admit it, you love your sin and hate the fact that YOU think you have to give it up to get into heaven. You have been told that God and or Jesus, sits up in heaven looking DOWN upon everyone Judging them. Make no mistake about it. Sin will be judged! Your sin, my sin, everyone's sin. The Good news is that those who trusted in God's work on the Cross for the forgiveness of sin will enter into eternal life in Heaven. Those who choose to live in their sin and hope for the best....you get eternal life when you die as well, but in Hell! If in the end, when God turns off my air & what I believe turns out to be false, I've lost nothing. If in the END of life for you who try to spread this falsehood turns out to be false.....you've lost everything.You think your 5 minute you tube video will change a TRUE believers mind? I guarantee you not!God said, "I use the simple things to confound the wise." I love that because I see it almost daily. Example, people who do things like this think they are so smart. I just know and pray that as long as today is called today there is hope for us all. But I also know that everyday people die and go to hell and for that we should weep.So let me end by saying I've never seen 1 million dollars but that doesn't mean it doesn't exsist. Choose Christ. God Bless each and everyone and don't stop seeking.
Partner-with-number-fetish: "Admit it, you love your sin..."Can't love something that doesn't exist. Sin is a myth."The Good news is that those who trusted in God's work on the Cross for the forgiveness of sin will enter into eternal life in Heaven."Actually, that's dreadful news. Stuck forever with some sick and twisted superbeing who had to torture and kill his own kid in order to forgive other people for the evil that it, itself created? That isn't heaven; that would indeed be hell."But I also know that everyday people die and go to hell..."No, you don't. The 'dying' part is fairly well-established, and I have no quarrel with that half of your statement.However, there is no proof whatsoever for the existence of your god and its hell. Therefore, you can only believe that they exist. You do not know.
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