Evil God? God did it, so it’s ok?
By John Fraysse
The Biblical God appears Evil to me and millions of others. I am NOT necessarily critiquing "God" per se, but more assuredly, the Biblical accounts of his dealings with individuals, groups and nations. By-in-large, I believe that God, if he/she/it exists, has been misrepresented in at least some of the Bible's many chapters. The reason I think this is because God’s actions appear inconsistent with his own teachings, so the Bible must have some of the aspects of "God's Principles and Nature" wrong. In a sense, while not certain of God's existence, I may, nevertheless, be perceived as "Defending God’s Honor". I will leave this matter to you and God.
There are many Biblical examples supporting the “Evil God” assertion, but for now, I would like to focus only on God’s seemingly murderous and capricious nature. These attributes can not be those of a Good and Kind “Heavenly Father” unless, of course, one DEFINES anything that God does or has been reported to have done as “Good”. So, at the outset, I am not allowing the possibility that “everything that God does is ok” or “God can do anything he wants” as he should, at the very least, be consistent with his own rules and teachings set forth in the Bible.
Much effort has been expended trying to explain away the god-commanded annihilation (genocide?) of the Canaanites, Amorites, et al in Num 21 and Deu 20. While I still think these are horrible acts, if they did indeed occur, at least these nations were a nasty, unrepentant bunch that had been killing Hebrews for generations or so the story goes. Further, let me state that I do believe that there ARE legitimate reasons for waging WAR. In fact, in this case, I tend to go along with Clint Eastwood’s classic line, “THEY NEEDED KILLIN’ “! I am also tempted to ask a) what took God so long and b) why didn’t God utterly destroy them HIMSELF rather than requiring that Israel do it, since vengeance is “The Lord’s” Psalms:94:1 and Na:1:2 (and others). He will repay! Right?
Anyway, here are five examples (and there are more) that I think are worse than God’s dealings with the Canaanites, because they caused the death of seemingly innocent parties, most of Jewish descent, that were NOT THREATS to God’s “Chosen Nation”. Yet, God rails against “… hands that shed innocent blood” Proverbs :6:17. How could he do or allow the following?
1. Joshua 7:18-25 - The Stoning and Burning of Achan (the guilty party), but also his sons, daughters, animals and tent. All of this after Achan ADMITS his sin, tells Israel where to find the “unclean things” and appears to be REPENTANT. Where was God’s mercy for Achan? Worse yet, where was God’s Justice and Mercy for Achan’s innocent family and animals?! So much for Mercy toward the repentant or the seemingly innocent!? And the point? FEAR of an Unjust God!
2. Judges 11 - The Story of Jephthah’s Daughter and the burnt offering human sacrifice of his innocent, obedient, virgin daughter and his only child. I certainly would not argue that Jephthah’s vow, was an irresponsible act of the highest order, but God didn’t stop the sacrifice, as he did with Abraham and Isaac, nor did he utter even a single word of rebuke!
Where was the Justice for Jephthah’s daughter? I hope Jephthah had the “mercy” to kill her first before he burned her. What a Dad! What a great example? The Point? Heck, I don’t know. It might be to make us sick as I am trying not to puke!
3. Samuel 24: 9-25 – God strikes down 70,000 of Israel for David’s sin of “numbering”, David’s numbering was forbidden by God and David was repentant and fell upon the mercies of God to determine his punishment. However, David received no direct punishment. Instead, God kills 70,000 of David’s men. Where was the Justice for the 70,000?
The point is not only FEAR due to disobedience, a potentially healthy fear, but also FEAR that someone else deserves to die for something you or your leader did wrong! This, unfortunately, happens in real life, but this situation was in the control of the “Perfect Biblical God” who is infinite in Mercy and Justice AFTER David had REPENTED. So David did wrong, repented and didn’t die BUT 70,000, presumably innocent, souls of the House of Israel were turned into buzzard bait! So God is also to be FEARED for his occasional MISDIRECTED ANGER! Geesh!
4. 2Ki:2:23-24: Elisha and the Little Children: “And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and CURSED them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.”
Wow! A blatant violation of the “eye-for-an-eye” principle or punishment consistent with the crime! Where was the Justice in this response to an arguably foolish, but possibly just playful, childish behavior? And not a word about God’s disapproval, in fact, the result of the curse was the mutilation death of 42 little kids and was “miraculous” in its focus and timing, so it would appear that God had a hand in it directly in deference to Elisha’s curse. “Suffer the little children to come unto me” in this circumstance appears to mean, “so that I may tare them to shreds” for pointing out the truth that I (Elisha) might look better in a hair piece? Childish “fun” is “No Joke” to God or his Prophet! What is the point of this story, if not FEAR of an Evil and Unjust God?
5. 1Ch:13:8-12 God’s Execution Style Murder of Poor Uzza: King David and all Israel had just worshiped God with all their might with singing, harps, psalteries, timbrels, cymbals and trumpets. This must have pleased God because “God inhabits the praise of Israel” (Psalms 22:3), right? Well, apparently not or God has a very short memory! For as they were moving the Ark of the Covenant, the Oxen pulling it stumbled and Uzza, one of its bearers, touched the Ark in an apparently successful attempt to keep it from falling. But this caused the “Anger of the Lord” to be kindled against Uzza, and God smote him, because he put his hand to the Ark and there he (Uzza) died before God. King David was understandably upset and displeased, because the Lord had made a breach (of justice) upon Uzza and David was AFRAID of God that day.
If this is not an evil, ungrateful and capricious act on God’s part, I don’t know what is! Even the “Man after God’s Own Heart”, King David, did not understand this act and was afraid of God. Again, the point is FEAR but, this time it is fear of an Unpredictable or Capricious God!
Consider This
The above atrocities look suspiciously like the folklore of MEN – Ancient Fictional War Stories or Soap Operas. They simply can’t be from the heart of an All-Good and Loving Heavenly Father! How can the serious, truth-seeking Bible Student reconcile these horrible incongruencies when Orthodox Christianity teaches that God’s Nature is all-powerful, all-knowing, unchanging, all-loving and all-good?
Try reading these five “Bible Stories” to your young kids and see what reaction you get. You might be surprised. If they have been taught (by you or someone) that everything God does is ok, they may not even flinch at these stories. Boy, that’s scary! But if you have not indoctrinated your kids with this “truth” then even a child will understand these stories as a “breach of justice” and not consistent with the actions of a Loving, Father-God.
Finally, I fully accept the theory that God may not exist, but I’m not smart enough to know this as an absolute truth and I will likely never be. Nevertheless, I am very grateful for my life, my many blessings, my family and friends and the country in which I live (USA). My life has meaning because I matter to others, others matter to me and I matter to me! I love science and discovery and feel a strong bond with my fellow man and seek to improve the human condition with my talents and resources. I try to glean positive lessons, if possible, from everything that happens to me and pass these lessons on to my kids. I read the Bible the same way I read Richard Dawkins, that is, with no predispositions and let the “wisdom find me”, if it is, indeed, there. In all things, I attempt to apply the good, reject the bad and encourage others to do the same, consistent with their conscience and ethical model, but I will not make excuses for the “Biblical God”.
Conclusion
The required “child-like” faith that Jesus taught assumes a Good and Loving God. It is interesting to me that Jesus was the first to refer to God as “Our Father” – A loving, benevolent image of God that I personally adore and, admittedly, require, if I am to believe in Him, Her or It. But alas, I don’t see consistent evidence of God’s Good Nature in the Biblical Record.
In summary, I conclude that the Bible is flawed and/or that God is Flawed. Since not even Atheists want “God to be Flawed”, I assume that the Bible is the culprit.
The Challenge
I know this rant is a “shot across the bow” for all of the “True Christians” and Orthodox Jews out there, but I honestly don't mean it as an affront. I’m simply weary of making excuses for the Biblical depiction of “God’s Character”. This is why I conclude that places in the Bible (certainly not all) are nothing more than fictional stories concocted by man and designed to instill the FEAR of God. This fear was extremely useful to Rulers and Priests in the Theocratic Society of Ancient Israel.
I’m sure that I’m going to get some seriously convoluted “Good Answers” and rebukes, but please, one ground rule. Please don't say, “God did it – That makes it ok”, ok?
The Biblical God appears Evil to me and millions of others. I am NOT necessarily critiquing "God" per se, but more assuredly, the Biblical accounts of his dealings with individuals, groups and nations. By-in-large, I believe that God, if he/she/it exists, has been misrepresented in at least some of the Bible's many chapters. The reason I think this is because God’s actions appear inconsistent with his own teachings, so the Bible must have some of the aspects of "God's Principles and Nature" wrong. In a sense, while not certain of God's existence, I may, nevertheless, be perceived as "Defending God’s Honor". I will leave this matter to you and God.
There are many Biblical examples supporting the “Evil God” assertion, but for now, I would like to focus only on God’s seemingly murderous and capricious nature. These attributes can not be those of a Good and Kind “Heavenly Father” unless, of course, one DEFINES anything that God does or has been reported to have done as “Good”. So, at the outset, I am not allowing the possibility that “everything that God does is ok” or “God can do anything he wants” as he should, at the very least, be consistent with his own rules and teachings set forth in the Bible.
Much effort has been expended trying to explain away the god-commanded annihilation (genocide?) of the Canaanites, Amorites, et al in Num 21 and Deu 20. While I still think these are horrible acts, if they did indeed occur, at least these nations were a nasty, unrepentant bunch that had been killing Hebrews for generations or so the story goes. Further, let me state that I do believe that there ARE legitimate reasons for waging WAR. In fact, in this case, I tend to go along with Clint Eastwood’s classic line, “THEY NEEDED KILLIN’ “! I am also tempted to ask a) what took God so long and b) why didn’t God utterly destroy them HIMSELF rather than requiring that Israel do it, since vengeance is “The Lord’s” Psalms:94:1 and Na:1:2 (and others). He will repay! Right?
Anyway, here are five examples (and there are more) that I think are worse than God’s dealings with the Canaanites, because they caused the death of seemingly innocent parties, most of Jewish descent, that were NOT THREATS to God’s “Chosen Nation”. Yet, God rails against “… hands that shed innocent blood” Proverbs :6:17. How could he do or allow the following?
1. Joshua 7:18-25 - The Stoning and Burning of Achan (the guilty party), but also his sons, daughters, animals and tent. All of this after Achan ADMITS his sin, tells Israel where to find the “unclean things” and appears to be REPENTANT. Where was God’s mercy for Achan? Worse yet, where was God’s Justice and Mercy for Achan’s innocent family and animals?! So much for Mercy toward the repentant or the seemingly innocent!? And the point? FEAR of an Unjust God!
2. Judges 11 - The Story of Jephthah’s Daughter and the burnt offering human sacrifice of his innocent, obedient, virgin daughter and his only child. I certainly would not argue that Jephthah’s vow, was an irresponsible act of the highest order, but God didn’t stop the sacrifice, as he did with Abraham and Isaac, nor did he utter even a single word of rebuke!
Where was the Justice for Jephthah’s daughter? I hope Jephthah had the “mercy” to kill her first before he burned her. What a Dad! What a great example? The Point? Heck, I don’t know. It might be to make us sick as I am trying not to puke!
3. Samuel 24: 9-25 – God strikes down 70,000 of Israel for David’s sin of “numbering”, David’s numbering was forbidden by God and David was repentant and fell upon the mercies of God to determine his punishment. However, David received no direct punishment. Instead, God kills 70,000 of David’s men. Where was the Justice for the 70,000?
The point is not only FEAR due to disobedience, a potentially healthy fear, but also FEAR that someone else deserves to die for something you or your leader did wrong! This, unfortunately, happens in real life, but this situation was in the control of the “Perfect Biblical God” who is infinite in Mercy and Justice AFTER David had REPENTED. So David did wrong, repented and didn’t die BUT 70,000, presumably innocent, souls of the House of Israel were turned into buzzard bait! So God is also to be FEARED for his occasional MISDIRECTED ANGER! Geesh!
4. 2Ki:2:23-24: Elisha and the Little Children: “And he (Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and CURSED them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.”
Wow! A blatant violation of the “eye-for-an-eye” principle or punishment consistent with the crime! Where was the Justice in this response to an arguably foolish, but possibly just playful, childish behavior? And not a word about God’s disapproval, in fact, the result of the curse was the mutilation death of 42 little kids and was “miraculous” in its focus and timing, so it would appear that God had a hand in it directly in deference to Elisha’s curse. “Suffer the little children to come unto me” in this circumstance appears to mean, “so that I may tare them to shreds” for pointing out the truth that I (Elisha) might look better in a hair piece? Childish “fun” is “No Joke” to God or his Prophet! What is the point of this story, if not FEAR of an Evil and Unjust God?
5. 1Ch:13:8-12 God’s Execution Style Murder of Poor Uzza: King David and all Israel had just worshiped God with all their might with singing, harps, psalteries, timbrels, cymbals and trumpets. This must have pleased God because “God inhabits the praise of Israel” (Psalms 22:3), right? Well, apparently not or God has a very short memory! For as they were moving the Ark of the Covenant, the Oxen pulling it stumbled and Uzza, one of its bearers, touched the Ark in an apparently successful attempt to keep it from falling. But this caused the “Anger of the Lord” to be kindled against Uzza, and God smote him, because he put his hand to the Ark and there he (Uzza) died before God. King David was understandably upset and displeased, because the Lord had made a breach (of justice) upon Uzza and David was AFRAID of God that day.
If this is not an evil, ungrateful and capricious act on God’s part, I don’t know what is! Even the “Man after God’s Own Heart”, King David, did not understand this act and was afraid of God. Again, the point is FEAR but, this time it is fear of an Unpredictable or Capricious God!
Consider This
The above atrocities look suspiciously like the folklore of MEN – Ancient Fictional War Stories or Soap Operas. They simply can’t be from the heart of an All-Good and Loving Heavenly Father! How can the serious, truth-seeking Bible Student reconcile these horrible incongruencies when Orthodox Christianity teaches that God’s Nature is all-powerful, all-knowing, unchanging, all-loving and all-good?
Try reading these five “Bible Stories” to your young kids and see what reaction you get. You might be surprised. If they have been taught (by you or someone) that everything God does is ok, they may not even flinch at these stories. Boy, that’s scary! But if you have not indoctrinated your kids with this “truth” then even a child will understand these stories as a “breach of justice” and not consistent with the actions of a Loving, Father-God.
Finally, I fully accept the theory that God may not exist, but I’m not smart enough to know this as an absolute truth and I will likely never be. Nevertheless, I am very grateful for my life, my many blessings, my family and friends and the country in which I live (USA). My life has meaning because I matter to others, others matter to me and I matter to me! I love science and discovery and feel a strong bond with my fellow man and seek to improve the human condition with my talents and resources. I try to glean positive lessons, if possible, from everything that happens to me and pass these lessons on to my kids. I read the Bible the same way I read Richard Dawkins, that is, with no predispositions and let the “wisdom find me”, if it is, indeed, there. In all things, I attempt to apply the good, reject the bad and encourage others to do the same, consistent with their conscience and ethical model, but I will not make excuses for the “Biblical God”.
Conclusion
The required “child-like” faith that Jesus taught assumes a Good and Loving God. It is interesting to me that Jesus was the first to refer to God as “Our Father” – A loving, benevolent image of God that I personally adore and, admittedly, require, if I am to believe in Him, Her or It. But alas, I don’t see consistent evidence of God’s Good Nature in the Biblical Record.
In summary, I conclude that the Bible is flawed and/or that God is Flawed. Since not even Atheists want “God to be Flawed”, I assume that the Bible is the culprit.
The Challenge
I know this rant is a “shot across the bow” for all of the “True Christians” and Orthodox Jews out there, but I honestly don't mean it as an affront. I’m simply weary of making excuses for the Biblical depiction of “God’s Character”. This is why I conclude that places in the Bible (certainly not all) are nothing more than fictional stories concocted by man and designed to instill the FEAR of God. This fear was extremely useful to Rulers and Priests in the Theocratic Society of Ancient Israel.
I’m sure that I’m going to get some seriously convoluted “Good Answers” and rebukes, but please, one ground rule. Please don't say, “God did it – That makes it ok”, ok?
Comments
Because that is exactly how the Old Testament gawd behaves and how he dispenses "justice" and how he makes examples of people.
The big mystery is why the hell I put up with it so long.
You are correct, of course, and there are other methods that can be used to indicate that the Biblical God appears to be Man-Made and Evil. The Historical evidence is another avenue as you point out. People have been setting me straight all my life, mostly because they love me. I’m praying for some Love-Motivated Fundies in the hopes that you won’t need so much horseradish!
BTW: I’m partly of Scottish descent and while my ancestors “invaded” and settled the North Country of your Motherland, I’m sure we can be friends!
Howdy! It’s all good, sweetheart! You must be true and honest with yourself and THAT is what I respect! I’m 58, 6’4”, 230 lbs, white, straight, married with 5 kids ages 32 to 12 , 4 grandkids (12 to 6) and can out play any of them. Philosophically, I don’t know what to call myself as I shy away from labels (Jeffersonian Theists?) I read Atlas Shrugged and also some of Glen Miller. I found Atlas “dark” and (needlessly?) violent at the end and seemingly contradictory to Rand’s normal libertarian views. But the book did demonstrate the struggle between “self-interest and society”. It also appeared to me to have an anti-family theme, which I didn’t like. Atheism doesn’t bother me in the slightest, but lack of conscience (a moral framework) does. I don’t like “Big Government” but I’m also definitely NOT anti-everything either. Balance is important. I’m an Aerospace Engineer by trade. I have gay and lesbian friends and they are some of the kindness people I know. Your temper will likely abate with age and I suspect it is not as bad as you purport. We all must learn to pick our battles and be willing to “take a hit” without returning it, that is, if we dare to love someone and avoid murder or heart failure. Those “Flashing Greens” sound irresistible but, watch out, you might attract a loving, straight guy who could convert you! Just messsin’ wit cha! Great to hear from you! Grace & Peace, John
Yet , ye do err. For nay have we spoken against the Son. Even so, it is permitted… “And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come”. Matthew 12:32
‘Tis speaking against the “Holy Ghost” that shall not be forgiven!
There. Just wanted to assure my place in hell and avoid any chance of ending up in heaven with that evil, psychotic god and the fundies that worship it.
That was an excellent post. As you mentioned, the examples of this tyrannical god are more numerous than what you have used here. This god (the god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) is an evil character. Sadly most people choose to continue their belief in the phantom god. The fact that people are scared into believing in this god, to me, is the great injustice of the day. So much for a loving god!
I am pleased that you closed with "Grace and Peace". My big sister is named Grace......Grace has slapped me into shape more than once.
I am 6 feet tall; slender and flat-chested; hair the color of the flames of hell. I have the devil's own temper, mean as a rabid bat, and I would as soon be dead as take an insult. Nobody's perfect.
About Ayn Rand:.......I know good and well what you are saying. I thank whatever gods may be that I am no one's disciple. My mind is as wide open as my legs. I am as dumb as a skunk but I run my own life.
And you have read Tom Jefferson? That is so bloody cool.....have you been to Monticello? I have been there twice. That is as close to reverence as I am capable of.
Also, I like Tom Paine. There were some great minds that founded this country, and there are millions who want to swap it for pat robertson. Honest to xrist, I want to retch. My people came here with nothin'. Not a fucking thing. But this place gave them a chance. They called us micks back then, but we busted our tails and most of us managed to stay sober. And where were the fucking xristians when our babies whimpered in the night in fear and hunger? CAPITALISM, BABY. Long may it wave.
Just hoping we can trade posts, John. When you get to know me, I am almost bearable.
Hey Thackerie: THAT should get you a front row seat or gallows or drawing table, etc, etc, etc.
Hey Mean Raba-Bat (Brigid): I love the Tommie’s Jefferson and Paine! Yes, I have been to Monticello and Loved it too! Live around Richmond, Va. I do. Free Enterprise Buff myself. Waste my vote, voting Libertarian a lot. Fiscally Conservative, Pro Equal Rights, Pro Gay-Les Rights, Anti-Abortion, Pro Stem Cell, Pro-Science, Save-the-Bay.
Pro-National Energy Independence so we don’t have to get involved with those religious wacko’s and we don’t heat the planet up too much so my kids and grandkids won’t have to leave it for Mars because their Dad and Granddad’s generation were a bunch of short sighted, “God is coming for us soon away”, fools!
Spirula: Agreed. What did the “Christobots” say to your argument? I hope not, “God did it, so it’s ok”!?
Grace & Peace to you all, (Trying not to be Evil) John
Referring to the originally posted examples, there are also some troubling difference between Case 1 (Achan) and Case 3 (King David). Both men were guilty of sin and repented but the King lives and the commoner (poor Achan) and his kids, wife and animals are all turned into Crispy Critters! What’s the message here? Well, it looks like God FAVORS the Rich and Famous King!
Sin is sin, right? No, it’s not! There is “Kingly (somebody else dies) Sin” and then there is “Commoner (you and your innocent family dies) Sin” But wait, God is FAIR, that is, not a “respecter of persons”, right? (Act 10:34) Again, NO! God seems to be a very big “Respecter of Persons”, at least in these cases. It has been explained to me that Jesus was born and raised in “lowly, humble circumstances” to appeal and minister to the commoners and those marginalized by society. This picture of God is very appealing to me since I think the poor folks of Jesus’ day well understood the power of Kings and Rulers and the unjust privilege they enjoyed. But God appears to CONFIRM the idea that he is UNFAIR by showing unabashed FAVORITISM to King David.
Now, God did “Punish David” for the major sins in his life, but he didn’t have David and his whole family humiliated, stoned and burned - not even for David’s sin of lust, adultery, deceit and murder. In fact, almost every time David sinned, somebody else died! But, of course, God had a purpose for David, that is, a blood line to Jesus in order to “fulfill prophecy” or so we are told.
So, what is the message? If you don’t fit into “God’s Plan” you are lower than Whale Poop and God may treat you and all of your family and pets/livestock that way! Again, this is evidence that the Biblical God “Plays Favorites” and is a “Respecter of Persons” in direct contradiction to Acts 10:34.
The Biblical God also appears to be arbitrary and capricious. We have already touched on the rejected sacrifice of Cain (Gen 4) which God does not explain, leading Cain to become angry and jealous enough to kill his bother, Able. God makes an obtuse comment to Cain regarding Cain’s anger, but does not explain the problem. So God knew Cain was mad. Wouldn’t a Loving Father-God politely explained to Cain the details of his umbrage, so Cain could “do well” as God required? Well, God does not and we know the rest-of-the-story. It appears that God hates Cain, “just cuz” and is simply waiting for Cain to do what God knows he will, that is, kill his brother so God can justifiably CURSE him and start a thundering herd of Moabites!
Probably a better example of the capricious nature of the Biblical God is the story of the twin boys Esau (the elder) and Jacob (the younger), the sons of Isaac and Rebekah. Esau was a not-so-bright, outdoorsy hunter and Jacob lived “in tents”. Jacob was a clever charlatan who coerced or stole his older brother’s “birthright” or Esau’s right to his family’s inheritance. Concerning these two, Paul writes in Romans 9:13 that God said, “... Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated”. No reason is given as to why God hates Esau or loves sneaky Jacob. But in the very next verse Paul “Calls God Out” when he asks the question, “What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God?” Well, yeah, Paul, it looks that way since God seems to love the dishonest and conniving Jacob, but then Paul says, “God forbid.” Ok, but why – why isn’t God unrighteous when he appears to be? Well, Paul gives NO ANSWER to that HUGE QUESTION, except the topic of this post, that is, God did it – It’s ok! Seriously, this is exactly what Paul writes in Rom 9:15 “For he (God) saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom, I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom, I will have compassion.”
Try that brand of totalitarianism mixed with an uneven sense of love, fairness and mercy on your kids and see what you get when they become adults! That’s right, Tyrants! Just like dear ‘ole Dad!
In conclusion, the Bible proves the undeniable truth that “God can and will do ANYTHING he wants.” So, here is my question to the Biblical God: “WHY is it ok?”
John, your use of the word "capricious" kept blasting out at me. Tom Jefferson called the bible god a "capricious, bloodthirsty monster".
I am reminded of a character in the war stories named menachem, 2 kings 15, I think. His specialty on the battlefield was cutting open pregnant women. The bible says that with no trace of emotion. It makes my blood run cold. On the other hand, onan was struck dead because he wouldn't diddle his sister in law. Go figure.
And all you jesus lovin' fuckers out there......come on in here and tell me with a straight face that the jews are the chosen people. Then back away about 5 or 6 paces while I piss my sweats laughing.
Have a nice day John. I enjoy your posts. Did you not say you were an aerospace engineer? Have you ever worked on the space shuttles? I still weep for Christa. We watched that launching in the school auditorium; shit, I must have been twelve. We were so sassy and cocky because a chick was going on a shuttle mission. When the damn thing blew up we went dumb, then wailed like children.
Shit I gotta stop sorry I am gonna bawl.
Is it just me,
... or is making one of your own children pregnant, so you can have a son for sacrificing, called INCEST?
Dano (Wouldn't Joseph's blood line become irrelevant?
Hey EIB (Brigid): Did you know your screen name initials are the same as Rush Limbaugh’s Network? Yikes!
I missed that quote from TJ, but of course, I agree. Have you read the Jefferson Bible? http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/. TJ took out all the baloney and Dogma supporting the organized church, which he considered corrupt and immoral. TJ liked his “modified” revelation of Jesus as one might expect. Guess we all tend to make “God” according to “our image”.
I worked on the initial structural analysis of the Shuttle, but had nothing to do with the design itself. I personally have always thought that the lateral configuration of the shuttle was just too dangerous – shuttle, fuel tank and solid rockets clumped together rather than the shuttle on the top of the stack.
I, like you and my kids, was excited about Christa’s mission. My cousin even named his first daughter “Christa” in her honor. I will never forget the funeral and the hollow look on her husband’s and kid’s faces and the touching words of President Reagan.
The operational “reliability” of the Shuttle was estimated at 98% in the late 70’s before the first flights. That’s 1 failure in every 50 missions. It is sad that Shuttle safety has actually turned out to be that bad. It also upsets me that we could have designed it to be much safer had the politics of “whose building what and where” not been a driving factor in it’s design and manufacture. I hope we will do better in the next generation of this nation’s “Space Ferry”. BTW, the Shuttle will be retired in 2010 after the International Space Station is complete. I sure hope we don’t “expend” another crew.
Going Snow Skiing this weekend – Hope you all have something fun planned!
Grace & Peace, John
"Dano: You would be correct, but lighten up! You are so morally picayune! Get over it, man! (grin)"
Dan :
I thought that was what your article was all about. God's moral picayuneiness! In fact the morally trivial way that man portrayed God when we invented him in our likeness is what makes him so laughable. He is pictured as petty to the extreme!
How many of your children would you send to hell if they stood up in front of you and yelled: "I hate you!"
Dan (Don't you just love God? He is soooo human)
Take the hint.
"Hey Dan: My comment to you was just “tongue-in-cheek”. Just messin’ wit cha, Man! Sorry! :)"
Dan::: No problem J, anyone who will stand up to God and Jesus is OK in my book!
Now, Off the subject! Check out, "Akiane" the child genius artist. Me, being a "Born again Skeptic" her little industry of inspirational painting just don't look zactly right to me.
Beautiful kid and beautiful pictures, but the story about how a "carpenter," just knocked on her door, who was exactly what she was looking for in a model for her "Jesus " sets off an alarm in my brain. Not to mention the story about God speaking directly to her.
I ask myself. "Would God be personally directing the art career of a kid, when there is so much other important stuff for him to do?"
Dan (70 year old skeptic with 2 years of beer drinkin higher education)
I suspect that Arkine’s background is religious in nature but I bet she was never told that she was going to Hell unless she did X,Y or Z. Most churches, even some evangelical ones, are selectively focused on the “goodness and light” aspects of “Biblical Truth” and don’t tell kids, not even adolescent kids, that they are going to Hell. Why? Because it scares them, and their parents, and their support, away. Also, I don’t think you will find Miss Arkine painting or writing about the Burnt Offering of Jephthah’s Virgin Daughter or She-Bears tarring 42 little kids a part. Now THOSE would be some gruesome examples of Art and Poetry (entitled: “Where was Jesus?”), ones I’m sure Oprah would not display on National TV.
If the Bible is God’s “Love-Letter” to all Man-Kind, then we should unabashedly display ALL of it, right!? I still think we need Warning Labels on Bibles! We have them on mattresses and you can’t remove them either!
Just call me SMorris, the Satanic teacher.
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