Creationists Pollute Young Minds at Museum on Nightline
From Xrayman
Two Creationists take home schooled kids on a tour of a natural history museum filling their minds with Young Earth Creationist Bullshit.
Two Creationists take home schooled kids on a tour of a natural history museum filling their minds with Young Earth Creationist Bullshit.
Comments
It's already happening in California.--freedy
-ExFundie
Anyway, Dumb or Dumber said, "There are several problems for the creationist"
Now there is an understatement, if I EVER heard one!!!
I'm sure most of us greatly recall a select few of the teachers we had in school, while the rest of them pretty much faded away from our memories.
Some we recall because they made a good impression upon us, while others we recall because we wondered what they were doing 'playing' a teacher.
The tour guides in this flick, will surely become the latter for most of these children, once they realize their young impressionable minds were once duped by these clueless chaps.
May the spark of intelligence ignite these young minds long before the god delusion fire is allowed to rage out of control and burn away that intelligence.
ATF (Who wonders if the public school these kids attend, ignores evolution in their science classes)
I was actually suprised with the clip, especially after the cute "Faith Matters" intro...liberal media my ass, I thought to myself. But they actually pointed out some pretty big holes in creationism and made the tour guys look dumb and showed how the kids just parrot everything, so thumbs-up to Nightline for that.
I'm sure it's posted on some bizarro-world fundie website with comments written by red-in-the-face people saying how bad it makes them look...and that makes me chuckle to myself.
But of all the homeshoolers I know locally, only a minor percentage are not in it for the sole reason of indoctrinating their kids with their fundamentalist religion. There are good textbooks and resources out there, but as archang13 made clear, we have to step around a lot of bullshit to find it.
It does make me sick seeing many parents isolating their kids pouring crap like this in their heads.
-Lance
That's right kids, we're a couple of creationist, Jerk-offs!
Say It again, only, louder -- JERK-OFFS!
--S.
So I like to watch their jaws hit the floor when I tell them that I teach evolution to my kids, and that I don't think the public schools do a good enough job of pushing evolution in the science classes.
Honestly, it seems that instruction on evolution has been watered down in the public schools due to pressure from religious folks. We have got to stop these dweebs before they dumb down the entire country.
Kudos to Nightline for making these folks look stupid. That was a small ray of hope for me.
- Lance
I've heard that shit so many times, I want to puke.
They didn't address your question specifically Steve, but when the Nightline correspondent asked the Y.E.C. why dinosaur and human fossils have never been found together, the jerk off at least admitted that he didn't know. Hats off to him for a bit of humility there, but the only time I have been more disturbed watching kids recite total force fed garbage is when I watched a documentary on Fred Phelps's gang seeing a five year old recite the God Hates Fags rhetoric. By the way are the Phelps family Y.E.C.'s?
March 22, 2008
Thanks for posting this video. Many of us might not have seen this otherwise.
It makes me wonder what is around the corner for our childrens' generation?
My hope is that the easy access (via the web) to the "real" world will be what eventually breaks the back of human ignorance.
Somehow we (ex-believers) were lucky enough to break away from the pack. Nevertheless, watching this made me want to puke.
I understand the disillusionment that can come from having lost one'e faith in God. I do not hate Atheists or Agnostics (or Hindus, or Muslims, etc.). I do believe in Civil Discourse.
I submit to the commenters here on this post that you have departed from Civil Discourse. You don't want to be insulted by Christians or have your right to share your ideas taken away. You don't want your children to be "indoctrinated" by State Schools into "Fundamentalist" beliefs.
Don't call for the same things for Christians or other religious people.
Disagree, argue, present your case. Even share your frustrations.
I dare you to leave out he profanities and insults and calls to silence the free speech of religious folks.
And the assertion that teaching children religion or "creationism" is child abuse is just plain silly.
My goodness. How shocking.
I read the Site Purpose and Disclaimer. I hope this isn't inconsistent. Ban Away, if you must.
Jon
Foaming at the Mouth Stark Raving Mad Fundamentalist Lunatic. (or, a simple man of Faith and Reason)
the mindset exhibited in this video has much to do with this -
unless it turns around this country will be a backward 3rd world nation within another couple of generations -
if not before
The studies show that homeschooling provide smarter kids, the studies show that homeschooled kids are NOT socially backward retards, but are in fact MORE SOCIALLY adjusted than your brick and mortar kids, and research is showing us that homeschooled kids provide us with people who are are more apt to be creative and think of problem sollutions in more unique and intuitive manners.
Homeschooling has also began to evolve in the sense that it is its own educational school system. Our children are "homeschooled" but they attend what is called a "digital academy". They have classes, teachers, and lessons like any other school - its just that its all done right from our house on computers.
Just as religion served a purpose to early humanity in providing an authoritative structure for early civilizations, its now provided a template for the homeschool ideal. While early homeschoolers WERE religious families seeking educational isolation, that is no longer the case. More and more people are seeing the benefits to providing direct education to their children and avoiding many of the negative side effects found in public school.
This is just a sore point with me when I read people bashing homeschooling because they incorrectly assume it is used only for religious reasons and I hear that same tired and completely false description of "socially stunted" along side it. his to be untrue.
Here are a few links that support some of the things I've said, but if anyone wishes to discuss this in more depth than I would be happy to continue. I didn't mean to derail this topic this much.
Homeschool children less preoccupied with peer acceptance
Research show benefits of homeschooling
Social skills and Homeschooling facts
A comparison of standardized tests between the homeschooled and publically educated
Homeschool research update
Really, just do a google search on homeschool and you'll find more than enough information to convince you that detractors of homeschooling do not have a clear understanding of the facts.
Are you that afraid?
:-)
Thank You.
Jon the Thinker
Thank you for your thoughts. I am not homeschooling because I don't have any children. I have worked a lot with homeschoolers though because I do work with young people. Some of the brightest, hardest working, and best character students I have worked with were homeschooled.
God Bless,
Jon the Thinker
Remember this is our little club here and one of the main purposes of this site is for those disillusioned with religion to say what's on their mind no matter how brash or offensive it may be to the Christian. The beauty of this site is the fact that it isn't censored in any way. These are our candid thoughts which most of us would never express in a public setting. I wouldn't think of walking over to a Christian message board and condemning members for trashing atheists. It would be like me stumbling on to a Christian site stating how offended I was because the Christians were mean to me because I disagreed with them on the abortion issue. It would come with the territory. I would expect it as should you expect atheists to have a no holes bared approach when commenting on the Christian bullshit portrayed in this video. We are sorry but if you don't like it please feel free to move along.
Teaching kids the Bible is a the end all in regards to science is just plain fucking wrong !!!!!!!!
March 22, 2008
Delete
Keep digging, jon. You'll figure it out if you keep an open mind and listen to both sides of the story. Someday that little voice will finally crack the illusion. When it happens, be courageous and come back here where you'll find a network of support and information.
The truth shall set you free.
The state does not brainwash kids, it actually encourages freedom of thought, doing scientific research to prove or disprove things, etc. Kids aren't "brainwashed" INTO believing evolution (which in itself is not a worldview anyway) and OUT of creationism...they are simply taught the crazy idea of having scientific evidence to support a theory. If they want to put creationism into school science textbooks, that's fine, because they can compare the two side-by-side and see that one makes sense and one is a fable and not worth their time.
Show me a fundamentalist christian homeschooler who allows their kids to disagree with the curriculum about evolution. Better yet, show me a christian textbook that even gives a fair and balanced discussion on the research supporting evolution and the research supporting creationism. Most just casually (and sometimes jokingly) dismiss evolution as crazy with the kind of trite pseudo-logic the tour guides in the video gave. "Fair and balanced" in the Fox News sort of way...if you just laugh at an opposing argument, you win!
Jon, no one said that you couldn't share your ideas here, no one is censoring you--you just perceive it that way because no one here agrees with you and it backs you into a corner. Like someone else said, if we all posted our thoughts on a fundie christian message board, how many would kindly threaten us to agree with them or otherwise god will curse us and banish our souls to hell forever? It's a two way street. You should know by the website you're on that you're not going to have too many folks agree with you here.
And also, christians are NOT being persecuted and they are NOT being denied freedom of speech or religion over the evolution/creationism issue. (If so, would such an opposing viewpoint even be in the media?) It's just a defense mechanism for when they don't get their way or others disagree. Trust me, I've been there before and I know how to use it.
Faith and reason are not friends...one has to eventually destroy the other...
Poisoning vulnarable young minds with lies, groundless guilt and nightmares of eternal lakes of fire for free thinking I would say amounts to child abuse. Of course I don't expect you to agree, but deep down, if you have any humanity, I think you surely know it.
Jon(I'm sorry, but I have a hard time addressing him as "Thinker"), said...
And the assertion that teaching children religion or "creationism" is child abuse is just plain silly.
Dear Jon,
Think about this: Even if the Theory of Evolution is taught in our public schools against the religionist's wishes and better judgement.... ultimately, the student is perfectly free to reject it as they please. They are under no obligation to believe, accept, and hold said scientific Theory as a life-long "scientific" fact; they need only learn enough about it to pass an exam, at which point, after that, they can then dismiss it as pure drivel, and then scurry off to their respective churches at the sound of the bell.
On the other hand, when children from religious households are taught creationism in "Sunday school", and worse, from their own parents, there are, at best, some implicit conditions at play, and at worst, some explicit conditions at play. Shall I go into it? Okay, you convinced me---I shall.
The difference is, Jon, that the notion of "creation" is part of a much bigger religious picture, and of course, I refer to it being one of many books in the Christian doctrine, AKA as the "Holy Bible".
Well, as any Christian, or Exchristian knows, one of the essentials of the Christian belief, of course, is that one must accept said doctrine as the absolute truth - which would be inclusive of the Genesis account of "Creation" - this, lest they be banished to a "lake of fire", where there, they will suffer in eternal torment by the presumed "Creator of the Universe".
Well Jon, this notion is twisted, perverse, barbaric, and most of all, it is a complete mockery of the word "love", if "love" is to mean unconditional.
The point: Yes, teaching such things to children who are too young to reason for themselves, and who believe and accept most of their knowledge merely because of authority, IS a form of mental abuse. It is nothing short of manipulation. The adults; the "teachers"....sure, they teach cute little jingles about how "Jesus loves the little children of the world", etc ....but yet, interstingly, not all of the "facts" are put to music, Jon. The "last verse"..i.e..the Christian "bottom line" is circumvented, padded, or omitted altogether. Why is that, Jon? Are these little songs teaching kids "Truth", or aren't they?
Furthermore, this breeds and propagates the very lookist behaviors, as well as the propensity to compartmentalize, both of which we see are so common in Christianity.
"Thinkers"?..think again.
And while I think that all forms of indoctrination are a type of brainwashing, I wouldn't go so far as to call every single one of them "abuse" (at least not in the legal sense of the word).
What we see here though is a group of people deliberately misleading a group of innocent school children by refusing to even look at the alternative viewpoint (Carbon dating, dinosaur remains, etc.) Not only that, the people in this video quite literally say "Fossils are boring" in an attempt to avert possible interest from science. This isn't discourse, this is manipulation, and at an age that young, that IS child abuse.
(Man, I just wanted to bitch-slap that bald guy)
-ExFundie
......and I have a Phd in world history and I tell my children the truth about Halocaust. It never happened.
'Perry Marshall invites any atheist to debate him. He says, "If you can read this, I can prove God exists".'
Harry, please tell PM I would be delighted to debate him. My email address is:
rwookc@singnet.com.sg
rgds
First of all - go fuck yourself. I've home-schooled both of my daughters, and if you want to call me a fundie, you're gravely mistaken. Lumping people into neat little groups is the job of religion. As a matter of fact, NONE of the homeschool groups that my wife and I have been involved with were religious or "fundie" in any way shape or form. I homeschooled because the state of the public schools where I live sucks balls. Kids can't spell, they have no real science, they are being taught to "pass the aptitude tests".
I'm sorry if you had to deal with fudie kids, but try to keep your mind open at least a crack to realize that not all home schoolers are xtian morons.
BTW - I'm glad Nightline exposed this bullshit. It was probably an easy gig for the editors to expose these guys as the dipshits that they are.
You can't be serious. I can't believe anything so asinine.
"Hi Guys, I am a physician and I share my faith in Christ and creationismam with my patients. I am proud of these men who are sharing their creationism."
Hi Mr. Physician, just thought that you would like to know that, since the invention of the microscope, we now know in the 21st century, that illnesses are caused by germs, bacteria and viruses, and are not caused by demons, evil spirits, witches, or thought invoked spells or the wrath of a god, just as people in the first century (and you) believe.
We also now know that the earth is not flat and that the Sun does not orbit the earth, and the earth is not the center of the universe.
But you would prefer to believe that a man and a woman was created out of dirt, each with a belly button to match.
Please post your preference outside your office so I and others can stay the hell away from you.
Thank You.
Hi Guys, I am a physician and I share my faith in Christ and creationismam with my patients
---
Oh, this fundie doctor must be a friend of that other xtian doctor that came through here not very long ago.
Well that settles the matter then.
If not just one, but TWO doctors are saying god created everything, then we should all convert instantly to their way of thinking......NOT!!!
Hey, "What's Up Doc", did you by chance get your education from the Bugs Bunny University?
I hear they can cure more diseases using carrots, than even your god can do.
ATF (Who sometimes wonders how naive these lame posters think we are)
From the Declaration of Geneva: "I will not permit considerations of age, disease or disability, creed, ethnic origin, gender, nationality, political affiliation, race, sexual orientation, social standing or any other factor to intervene between my duty and my patient..."
You're in violation of the oath, Mr. Video. Quit preaching at your patients or retire from your medical practice.
"...The tour guides in this flick, will surely become [Bad-Teacher exemplars/archetypes; e_s] for most of these children, once they realize their young impressionable minds were once duped by these clueless chaps..."
Let's hope so.
Every so often I have to see videos like this one, even though I don't much like to. I would very possibly never believe such people existed unless they were right there in front of me. It also renews my hope that, with text and other audiovisual media being representable in ones and zeros with the advent of the digital age, documents such as this video can be preserved forever and not disintegrate or be rounded up and burnt like the books in Alexandria were, as if they had never existed. I just wish that on the screen showing these two "teachers" there was some screen text giving their names and birthdates and information about what city & state they lived in, so that someday down the road nobody will ever be able to try and "rehabilitate" their memory and try to claim that grand-daddy wasn't a dumbfuck creationist propagandist who, in the 21st century, actively exerted himself to twist and warp children's minds away from their natural tendency to free inquiry.
It's the same principle in my mind as never allowing the name Byron de la Beckwith to vanish into obscurity. Someone shot Medgar Evers, and that's.who.it.was.
and "knowledge" of the Bronze Age.
Hey there Doc..when you want to cure a patient, what do you do, sacrifice a goat or sheep?
And to Jon the Thinker..the only
thing true about your post is your
name is Jon. I'd say your're a parrot, repeating everything you've ever been told to say..Bwaak, Bwaak,Polly believes
the Bible...a thinker you most
definately are not.
A lot of people who visit this site, like me, have been victims of Christianity. Many people that were brainwashed as Children by Christians, like me, have had a terrible time overcoming it. I will be emotionally scarred for life.
The way I fell about Christians is the same way that Afro-americans feel about the KKK, or the way that Jews feel about Nazis, or the way that a rape victim feels about a rapist.
Do you get the picture?
It's not subjective at all; if the fundamental physics behind radiometric dating are only subjective, then nuclear power and nuclear weapons don't exist, either. Dumbasses!
I grew up listening to the crap. I was even a GA (a Christian girl scout). I just had to sit through the Easter Sunday service with my parents (I decided to visit them after all). I sat in with the youth group (I'm only 20 and still have some friends in the youth) during the end of their Sunday school. It took all I had to keep from screaming and storming out. I was ready to strangle the teacher in 3 seconds.
Seriously, when you go into a scientific institute and warp things to fit your preconceived notions, that is not science.
How do we know birds are birds? The bible says so. How do we know Moby Dick was a white whale? The book "Moby Dick" tells us so.
I worship Ken Miller who is a cell biologist by trade and one of the greatest minds the evolution movement has ever known. If any of you want to see Intelligent Design totally destroyed by one man, watch this video lecture. It is the best two hours you'll ever spend in a long time and it will arm you almost any arguement against a Y.E.C. Ironically Dr. Miller is a Catholic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg
First of all - go fuck yourself.
Whoa Wayne!!! I thought I made it abundantly clear that I was talking about fundamentalist christian homeschoolers; if I didn't I sincerely apologize! You don't deserve to be lumped in with that group, and by your response I'm judging that it happens to you a lot and that you loathe it. So if I did that to you it was NOT intentional. I'm all for any method of education that doesn't brainwash kids with religion, public or private or homeschool or whatever. If you can do a better job of educating your kids at home, go for it! There's nothing wrong with homeschooling in general, just the fundie christian brainwashing kind.
I'll try to be a little more distinct about it next time...lesson learned.
Whoa Wayne!!! I thought I made it abundantly clear that I was talking about fundamentalist christian homeschoolers
----
Archang31,
I just wanted to say that I took your previous post to be talking about **christian** fundie homeschoolers, and not homeschoolers in general.
To ME, you made that clear enough for most readers to understand your point, so I'm not sure why Wayne didn't also see it that way.
ATF (Who knows what it feels like to be mis-read at times to)
Translation: I exploit the fearful and worried state of sick people in order to proselytize for my imaginary friend, instead of doing the job of helping them get well which they mistakenly thought they were paying me to do.
Evolution can't be observed--fine.
Creationism can't be observed--fine.
Evolution is an assertion based on observed phenomena. Creationists attempt to interpret *some* observed phenomena to "prove" a pre-existing assertion based on unobserved phenomena.
Holy fuck! Why is that so hard for them to understand?
It is shit like this that gives homeschooling a bad name and carries it to the extreme of it's stereotypes, the mom in the denim jumper with 6 kids who sits at the kitchen table, the kids are socially isolated, learn only about creationism through their Abeka or Bob Jones "science" curriculum.
Unfortuanately I am surrounded by these fundy homeschoolers in my area, unlike Wayne. Makes it difficult to be sure. I do not want to raise a robot as it looks like these kids will amount to. Yes, through very fundy relatives (my husband is still a very weak christian tottering on the fence, I have recently declared my deconversion) my kids know about Bible Stories, and such, and the creation story, but under this roof we treat them as stories...and yes I do present both sides of the issue unlike I was privy to as a child. Too bad I had to reach my late 30's to realize and practice rational thought! My kids, thank goodness, are going down a very different path.
THANK YOU ALL (except for the xian wining about xian bashing)
BTW, took the kid to see Horton Hears a Who the other day. The protagonist was a "pouch schooling" kangaroo. And she was not happy that Horton was teaching children to be creative. OUCH! I'm all for creativity.
Let's not stereotype homeschoolers, please.
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