My Two Year Degree in Atheism and the Refuting of Religion is Completed
By Xrayman
My how time flies. I just turned 45, and this month marks the two year anniversary of that fateful mouse click that lead me down the road to complete and total freedom from God belief. In a matter of a couple weeks I had an epiphany and walked through the door of non belief that permanently slammed behind me. There was this wonderful giddy moment where a light flashed in my head, and I just knew without a doubt that religion was a complete sham. Although I was never very religious, I did truly believe in God, prayer, Heaven, and Hell.
From the moment I discovered the amazing internet world of non believers, I became obsessed. I was absolutely captivated with the fact that I had discovered something astronomical. I had finally cracked the code of absolute truth and I knew it. I felt like Doc Brown on “Back to the Future” the moment when he discovered his time machine from the future was a success(insert stereotype crazy scientist laugh here). With this fact, I became increasingly hungry for knowledge. I wanted to cover every angle and every argument a Christian could muster, leaving no stone unturned. It’s been and endless sea of web sites and books, along with hours and hours of video, and audio downloads. I also give much credit to the Science Channel and it’s related Discovery Networks. I have had email correspondences with atheists, ExChristians, and most interestingly with a couple Bible literalists. In these two years I don’t believe a day has gone by that I haven’t spent at least one hour in the pursuit of information refuting religion. Some days it’s been eight or nine hours.
Essentially it’s as if I have earned a two year internet degree in Refuting Religion, with a lesser certificate in Evolutionary Science and Astronomy. I never really knew a thing about natural selection or the “Big Bang” before this journey began. God Damn I have learned a lot of in these two years. I owe so much thanks to the brains of this site for the majority of my new found knowledge, as well as the wonderful atheist community of You tubers. I’ve read the books of Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, Dan Barker, and David Mills. I have also seen the nonsensical works of scientists(wink wink) like Ken Hamm, Kent Haviland, and Lee Strobal. I hate to put Strobal in with these knuckleheads, but the Case for a Creator was nonsense. I’ve learned more about the Bible than probably almost any Christian friends I know, although Biblical knowledge is defiantly my weak point. Also I have just learned cornucopia of facts about religion in general in which I never knew. For instance I never knew the word mass only pertained to Catholics. I thought the Baptists could throw a good mass. Countering virtually any religious argument has now become second nature and I would consider myself self educated enough to do a pretty fair speech on evolution in which I previously had very little knowledge. I can now properly define the word “Theory” in regards to science.
I must admit I have been a huge pain in the ass to those around me at times. Like the newly born again Christian, I have a strong desire to spread the word. I seem to work my atheism into conversations whenever I can. What has been interesting is the fact that my big mouth and I have unearthed numerous sleeping atheists. I discovered six guys in the workplace thus far who other wise would have remained silent as most atheists do. It is funny how so few will identify themselves with the “A” word. I had one coworker say, “I’m no atheist, I just don’t believe in any of that shit.” I had to sadly inform him that he indeed was an atheist. Perhaps many feel to be labeled an atheist one must belong to a certain organized group, like a Catholic. Speaking of Catholics I certainly have seen great folly in the fact that some consider themselves to be the true Christians, where as the Fundamentalist Baptist may think of the Catholic as Hell bound. I hadn’t a clue there was such division amongst Jesus believers. I thought it was really all the same club in different buildings.
Perhaps my strangest finding, through all my research, was the fact that there are people today in the 21st century, who believe our earth to be 6000 years old. It just blew me away. I had never heard of a young earth creationist. My public elementary school education taught me our planet is billions of years old, and dinosaurs were here hundreds of millions of years ago, and believe it or not we never had one angry parent march to the school board in protest. I never knew there were challenges to the age of the earth. What was most disturbing is the fact is this group just doesn’t include a modest group of loons like the flat earth gang, but millions of (sometimes highly educated) people. To learn these same people literally believe somewhere around the year 4000b.c. someone built a wooden boat big enough to hold two of every animal species on the planet to save them from a world flood that carved the Grand Canyon in two days time. I’ve read this Noah’s Ark story in one of those big books in a Dr's. office as a child, but I always thought it really was just a story.
“Why does God allow children to get cancer?” As a health care worker who sees this first hand, this is a standard question I often use as an ice breaker in a discussion with Christians. Most who boldly go beyond the “God works in mysterious ways,” business, blame it on original sin. Original sin? I’ve heard of sin, but never original sin. A gal is talked to by a snake and then eats an apple 6000 years ago which causes an innocent four year old today, to get a brain tumor. Makes perfect sense. My other favorite Christian question that sends them reeling is, “How can you be happy in Heaven if a loved one is in Hell?” That’s a great party question.
In reality nature is cruel and indiscriminate and sometimes without purpose. Just as the hungry lion will eat the baby wildebeest, a cell will sometimes randomly mutate into cancer in an old man or innocent child. If a church full of kids is in a tornado’s path, it will topple into splinters with no divine protection. Plate tectonics doesn’t care who happens to be standing in the fall out zone of a massive earthquake whether they believe in Jesus or not. I know Pat Robertson thinks that homosexuals often cause catastrophic natural phenomena, but I think it to be random forces of nature is a much better explanation. When one person survives a plane crash that killed 200, it’s is not a miracle from God. It’s luck. To recover from a disease in which only one out of 10,000 survive is not a miracle. It’s called beating incredible odds of a statistically possible outcome. Returning a person with a severed spinal cord back to full motor capacity would be a miracle because in medical science it is absolutely, statistically impossible.
As this wonderful ExChristian website suggests, I also never knew there was such a thing as a hard core Christian who lost their faith. I guess if I could point to one specific fact that cemented my non belief, it would be reading the first couple of testimonials from guys like Webmaster Dave. Atheists who were once hard core Bible thumpers give by far the best and most convincing arguments because they do know the other side so well. I am in awe of the atheist who is also a Bible scholar.
So what made a man, of former tepid God belief, who accidentally discovered the real truth, to become so totally obsessed with refuting religion and it’s associated topics? I don’t know !!!! Why does this interest me so? Why can’t I just be one of those stealth atheists who rolls his eyes once in a while when religion comes up, but never much talks about it? Perhaps on a deep subconscious level I need constant reinforcement as the religionist does. Maybe a psychologist is needed to come in and figure this one out. Why couldn’t I have become obsessed with finance or something in which I could profit? Hell I almost do feel like I could write a book.
In conclusion it’s a wonderful feeling to know that there is no invisible voyeur in the sky who is watching my every move, and reading my every thought, while recording my every action to be judged in the end. When I realized there is no afterlife and the finality of my own death, it wasn’t a huge let down. Returning to that pre born state in the end sounds like a pretty good nap. I think I’ll be fine. I do wish that heavenly afterlife did exist because of those who were totally robbed of this life though, from the child who never walked, to the child who battled leukemia for five years and died at 11, or the man born with a severe facial deformity who never knew the love of a woman. It would be nice of the Sudanese kid who starved to death at three was at an eternal feast with Jesus, but we all know this isn’t true. One of the saddest facts of life, is the fact that it just isn’t fair and never will be, and to try to explain this away as plan of the grand designer is the most ironic of all conclusions.
Bill B.
Michigan
P.S. I welcome all emails from atheists and Christians as well.
xrayman AT chartermi DOT net
My how time flies. I just turned 45, and this month marks the two year anniversary of that fateful mouse click that lead me down the road to complete and total freedom from God belief. In a matter of a couple weeks I had an epiphany and walked through the door of non belief that permanently slammed behind me. There was this wonderful giddy moment where a light flashed in my head, and I just knew without a doubt that religion was a complete sham. Although I was never very religious, I did truly believe in God, prayer, Heaven, and Hell.
From the moment I discovered the amazing internet world of non believers, I became obsessed. I was absolutely captivated with the fact that I had discovered something astronomical. I had finally cracked the code of absolute truth and I knew it. I felt like Doc Brown on “Back to the Future” the moment when he discovered his time machine from the future was a success(insert stereotype crazy scientist laugh here). With this fact, I became increasingly hungry for knowledge. I wanted to cover every angle and every argument a Christian could muster, leaving no stone unturned. It’s been and endless sea of web sites and books, along with hours and hours of video, and audio downloads. I also give much credit to the Science Channel and it’s related Discovery Networks. I have had email correspondences with atheists, ExChristians, and most interestingly with a couple Bible literalists. In these two years I don’t believe a day has gone by that I haven’t spent at least one hour in the pursuit of information refuting religion. Some days it’s been eight or nine hours.
Essentially it’s as if I have earned a two year internet degree in Refuting Religion, with a lesser certificate in Evolutionary Science and Astronomy. I never really knew a thing about natural selection or the “Big Bang” before this journey began. God Damn I have learned a lot of in these two years. I owe so much thanks to the brains of this site for the majority of my new found knowledge, as well as the wonderful atheist community of You tubers. I’ve read the books of Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, Dan Barker, and David Mills. I have also seen the nonsensical works of scientists(wink wink) like Ken Hamm, Kent Haviland, and Lee Strobal. I hate to put Strobal in with these knuckleheads, but the Case for a Creator was nonsense. I’ve learned more about the Bible than probably almost any Christian friends I know, although Biblical knowledge is defiantly my weak point. Also I have just learned cornucopia of facts about religion in general in which I never knew. For instance I never knew the word mass only pertained to Catholics. I thought the Baptists could throw a good mass. Countering virtually any religious argument has now become second nature and I would consider myself self educated enough to do a pretty fair speech on evolution in which I previously had very little knowledge. I can now properly define the word “Theory” in regards to science.
I must admit I have been a huge pain in the ass to those around me at times. Like the newly born again Christian, I have a strong desire to spread the word. I seem to work my atheism into conversations whenever I can. What has been interesting is the fact that my big mouth and I have unearthed numerous sleeping atheists. I discovered six guys in the workplace thus far who other wise would have remained silent as most atheists do. It is funny how so few will identify themselves with the “A” word. I had one coworker say, “I’m no atheist, I just don’t believe in any of that shit.” I had to sadly inform him that he indeed was an atheist. Perhaps many feel to be labeled an atheist one must belong to a certain organized group, like a Catholic. Speaking of Catholics I certainly have seen great folly in the fact that some consider themselves to be the true Christians, where as the Fundamentalist Baptist may think of the Catholic as Hell bound. I hadn’t a clue there was such division amongst Jesus believers. I thought it was really all the same club in different buildings.
Perhaps my strangest finding, through all my research, was the fact that there are people today in the 21st century, who believe our earth to be 6000 years old. It just blew me away. I had never heard of a young earth creationist. My public elementary school education taught me our planet is billions of years old, and dinosaurs were here hundreds of millions of years ago, and believe it or not we never had one angry parent march to the school board in protest. I never knew there were challenges to the age of the earth. What was most disturbing is the fact is this group just doesn’t include a modest group of loons like the flat earth gang, but millions of (sometimes highly educated) people. To learn these same people literally believe somewhere around the year 4000b.c. someone built a wooden boat big enough to hold two of every animal species on the planet to save them from a world flood that carved the Grand Canyon in two days time. I’ve read this Noah’s Ark story in one of those big books in a Dr's. office as a child, but I always thought it really was just a story.
“Why does God allow children to get cancer?” As a health care worker who sees this first hand, this is a standard question I often use as an ice breaker in a discussion with Christians. Most who boldly go beyond the “God works in mysterious ways,” business, blame it on original sin. Original sin? I’ve heard of sin, but never original sin. A gal is talked to by a snake and then eats an apple 6000 years ago which causes an innocent four year old today, to get a brain tumor. Makes perfect sense. My other favorite Christian question that sends them reeling is, “How can you be happy in Heaven if a loved one is in Hell?” That’s a great party question.
In reality nature is cruel and indiscriminate and sometimes without purpose. Just as the hungry lion will eat the baby wildebeest, a cell will sometimes randomly mutate into cancer in an old man or innocent child. If a church full of kids is in a tornado’s path, it will topple into splinters with no divine protection. Plate tectonics doesn’t care who happens to be standing in the fall out zone of a massive earthquake whether they believe in Jesus or not. I know Pat Robertson thinks that homosexuals often cause catastrophic natural phenomena, but I think it to be random forces of nature is a much better explanation. When one person survives a plane crash that killed 200, it’s is not a miracle from God. It’s luck. To recover from a disease in which only one out of 10,000 survive is not a miracle. It’s called beating incredible odds of a statistically possible outcome. Returning a person with a severed spinal cord back to full motor capacity would be a miracle because in medical science it is absolutely, statistically impossible.
As this wonderful ExChristian website suggests, I also never knew there was such a thing as a hard core Christian who lost their faith. I guess if I could point to one specific fact that cemented my non belief, it would be reading the first couple of testimonials from guys like Webmaster Dave. Atheists who were once hard core Bible thumpers give by far the best and most convincing arguments because they do know the other side so well. I am in awe of the atheist who is also a Bible scholar.
So what made a man, of former tepid God belief, who accidentally discovered the real truth, to become so totally obsessed with refuting religion and it’s associated topics? I don’t know !!!! Why does this interest me so? Why can’t I just be one of those stealth atheists who rolls his eyes once in a while when religion comes up, but never much talks about it? Perhaps on a deep subconscious level I need constant reinforcement as the religionist does. Maybe a psychologist is needed to come in and figure this one out. Why couldn’t I have become obsessed with finance or something in which I could profit? Hell I almost do feel like I could write a book.
In conclusion it’s a wonderful feeling to know that there is no invisible voyeur in the sky who is watching my every move, and reading my every thought, while recording my every action to be judged in the end. When I realized there is no afterlife and the finality of my own death, it wasn’t a huge let down. Returning to that pre born state in the end sounds like a pretty good nap. I think I’ll be fine. I do wish that heavenly afterlife did exist because of those who were totally robbed of this life though, from the child who never walked, to the child who battled leukemia for five years and died at 11, or the man born with a severe facial deformity who never knew the love of a woman. It would be nice of the Sudanese kid who starved to death at three was at an eternal feast with Jesus, but we all know this isn’t true. One of the saddest facts of life, is the fact that it just isn’t fair and never will be, and to try to explain this away as plan of the grand designer is the most ironic of all conclusions.
Bill B.
Michigan
P.S. I welcome all emails from atheists and Christians as well.
xrayman AT chartermi DOT net
Comments
I can definitely relate to the born-again evangelical atheism as I am guilty on many counts, but so much of what people take to be true rests on very shaky foundations and I still find it hard to let sleeping dogs lie haha.
Thanks for sharing :)
Anyway, great post that I could have written about myself! Maybe we could both make an appointment with the shrink together to help rid ourselves of this religious obsession! I know my spouse would love that. She reminds me always that I am obsessed and suggests I get help. I respond that as soon as she gets help with her delusions, I'll get help for my obsessive behavior.
Thanks for sharing and keep it up! Jim Earl
And we share the wife thing also? Although my wife is only slightly more religious that I am, she has been known to tell me to "Shut the Fuck up about your atheism crap."
Yes I am obsesed with exercise. It took the place of my obsessive drinking habit.
Thanks for your comments !!!!
I am also an ex-boozer (big time) that is obsessed with atheism. Every day I peel off another layer and it seems to never end. It gets me HIGH!!
My wife hates that I spend so much time with my face in books. But I can't help it.
If lovin' it is wrong...I don't wanna be right! (..well, you know what I mean...?)
I send a HUGE thank you to Dave (webmaster) and you, sir. Ex-Xtian starts my day with a big dose of "REAL".
Take care!
Strange the things we have in common. I also dropped a rather tepid god-belief about 2 years ago and have been obsessed with the debunking angle ever since. Also sober 31 years now. Also wish I could turn my obsessive personality towards something that would earn me more $$. My wife is rather a firm believer, like Jim, and I can't talk to her about this stuff, so this site and a few others are my only outlet. Thanks for sharing and for being strong enough as a human being to a) be so honest; and b) work in such a heartbreaking atmosphere, especially with the young kids. Guys like you deserve a medal.
And we share the wife thing also? Although my wife is only slightly more religious that I am, she has been known to tell me to "Shut the Fuck up about your atheism crap."
This is unreal. I have heard the same almost exact words! I guess if we didn't have a lot of love for each other we may be doomed. When we do have disagreements, I hit the bike and the problems fade away! Jim Earl
Anyhow, along the way I discovered this fantastic website with so many intelligent, thoughtful, and thought-provoking people. And once I get over my inital sputtering and spewing, even the random idiots that show up here are good for a few laughs. I too am obsessed with the science, history, and current events. Sometimes I just have to laugh at myself when I go through my list of internet favorites....folders like "Religious Idiots", "Stoopid Fundies", "Creationism WTF" to name a few.
Although my husband has never told me to "Shut the Fuck up about your atheism crap," (the f-word is baaaaaad), I've been known to tell him that about his xtianity BS. LOL
So between my husband AND living in the South, I want and need all the information and knowledge I can get. So I try to never miss a day of Ex-C....this is where I get my daily dose of sanity. Thanks to all!
Trust Him, not religious leaders who have changed the Word and twisted it for personal gain. Just spend a few minutes on the website and you'll understand what I mean. Yahuweh does not want to be worshipped like religious teachers teach, all He wants is a relationship with you, Father to son. No need to bow down, close eyes, do funny things, He just wants a familial relationship, no fear included, just love and respect.
Also learn how the Scriptures speak of three destination and not just two. Heaven, Hell and the Annihilation of Souls. Those that do not willingly lead others astray will simply have their souls annihilated when they die, they will cease to exist. Those who choose God will be with Him, those who aren't here nor there will simply cease to exist (majority of mankind), and those who lead others astray (religious leaders, politicians, media, etc.) will end up with the evil one.
Those that do not want to know Yahuweh will simply cease to exist, that's what the Word says, it's also what atheism says ironically. Choose Him and you will know Him, choose not to know Him and you won't know Him nor will He know you. Lead others astray and it's hell. And hell is not burning pain as the Church errantly preach, it's the absence of God, perpetual anguish as is knowing one will never see or feel God again, and emotional pain, not physical. The Lake of Fire is just symbolic for judgement. Fire symbolises judgement.
The world as it is now is because of Man's poor choices, we also know the exact day He comes back, He has shown it to those willing to study all of His Word, and to those who sincerely love him. Those who despise religion of all types, just as He despises religion.
Oh yes, and see how Yahushua (errantly known by the name Jesus)
did not abolish the Torah, find out how He holds it all together. Both Christians and Jews have it wrong. Yada Yahweh is all free and it will be the most unreligious book you'll ever read.
Found out how Yahuweh despises Christmas, Easter, the Catholic Church, Orthodox Christianity, Protestantism, Islam, Rabbinal Judaism, Secular Humanism, etc. but most importantly why He hates them. Even the sign of the cross has pagan origins in the ancient Babylonian sun-god religions.
Here's to choosing Life.
It's nice so see so many others obsessed with the whole refutibiliby of religion business. For some reason it's just so cool feeling like you know something that 90% of America just doesn't see.
As far as my wife goes, she knows damn well religion is bullshit, but she is just too damn stubborn to admit it.
Help me out here, Xchristies.
It was all a joke, right?
He was just putting us all on, right? Sometimes I really need to pinch myself to see if I'm really awake. Is he really promoting some new form of religious uglyism? Yada Yahweh.com, gimme a break!
I'll get it someday.
I saw a phrase online that describes M's comment:
"Weapons-grade stupidity"
Well, that can mean only one thing...
....More chocolate for Me!
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/yadayada
Main Entry: ya·da ya·da
--boring or empty talk...
—often used interjectionally especially in recounting words regarded as too dull or predictable to be worth repeating
I myself went along with the religionists until the age of about 45 or so, I decided that if I could discover the truth about life and Christian beliefs by the time I reached the age of fifty, if I could prove to myself that Christianity was true for myself, then I would go forward and walk along with Billy Grahams and the religious elite and expose myself as a full blooded fundamentalist.
But then there was the questions I never allowed myself to ask, mainly because I was too busy putting on the social mask,(trying to look and act like the typical American) and asking as to how if the Bible God is in total conrol of the entire Universe, How could he have lost control of, or over Satan?
If the Bible God is in total control over all things, how could he have lost control over the very thing that he/himself invented?
Also if God created the earth in just six days, how come it takes over 200 million years for wood to become petrified?
How could the Hawaiian Islands have been formed (raised) from the bottom of the ocean in just six thousand years to over 17,000 feet?
The more I questioned the socially accepted Bible stories, the more that they fell apart.
Such as the Noah's ark story. How come if man was so wicked that the bible god had to destroy all of his creations encluding the animals and could only commission a drunkard to build this huge boat with no tools, or drawings or nails, only wood and pitch. Yet the bible god could have just eliminated all evil and wickness with just the snap of his fingers.
Then soon after the flood we have Sodom and Gamorrah, the most wicked city to have ever existed, but it was more important that Lots wife not turn around and look at the city than it was for Lots two daughters to have sex with him, their own father Lot.
Then it took forty days and nights for god to write the Ten Commandments, yet it only took him six days to create the whole entire universe.
The Bible, it gets worse and worse and Christians make apologies and special pleading for their bible god.
Religions are a mental sickness invented to comfort the fear stricken people, especially children, solely to mold them into religious conformity and to bilk them out of their money by using fear of a hell if they do not comply. Most people will comply and they know this.
Now I can comfortably say "I have finally cracked the code of absolute truth it's called reason and I honestly know it will lead one to the truth."
Beliefs leads people away from truth, thats it's intentional agenda!
Thanks, Xrayman
Have a good life, although over half of it is over at age 45.
But you will still have some good times.
Enjoy them.
For in the end, Hell is still there waiting.
What makes you think that any of us want to subscribe to your violent and morally bankrupt perspective on life? Why should we want to emulate the likes of you? Your concept of gods is insulting, to gods and mortals alike. All you can do is spit out impotent threats.
You, yourself, are a fitting representative of the evil that your god and your religion represent in the real world.
I wish you a lifetime of escalating doubt, failed prayers and futile searching, culminating finally in disillusionment, apostasy and freedom.
For in the end, Hell is still there waiting
---
Andrew,
Now that you made this bold claim for this 'hell' place, I'd like to see you present the evidence you have for it's existence, along with your implied claim that it's waiting for us.
I could claim the mythical city of Atlantis and it's advanced race of humans once existed, but how many would believe it without evidence.
I could claim the center of our earth is hollow and is populated by humans, but "where is the proof", I'd be asked.
I could claim that all the Greek God myths were not just mere myths, but were in fact real gods, but again, who today would believe me.
So just because you have some ancient book that MAN put together, that makes mention of some 'hell' place, why should anyone accept your claim without you providing evidence of it, hmm?
Yes Andrew, I'm quite sure hell exists for you, at least in your dreams and fears, but I'm just as sure it can't exist in reality.
Prove me wrong Andrew, I double dare you !!
ATF (Who wonders if Santa Clause has been born-again, or will he also be sent to hell as well?)
Thats why you are so angry.
If you really didn't know, you would just laugh...but instead you rage.
May I speak to this question? As a Seventh-day Adventist christian, I understand the Bible to say that there is no hell, not at the present. When we die, we just sleep (in God's eyes). We lay in state awaiting the coming of Jesus and the end of this great controversy of sin and rebellion.
But the day of judgment is coming and then there will be hell. It will be done, and then be over with. Everything done in unrighteousness and without love will fail the big test and sin will forever be destroyed.
That may not sound very acceptable to you, but we see it done every day. Crime is punished and if it were not, no one would be safe. I'm punished in the consequences of my faults, as you are, no doubt. So the final judgment will be the great crescendo of all the punishments that have been required during this life.
Are we sad because our loved ones suffer from drug addictions and die? Do we suffer with them? Yes. Do the parents and family of death row prisoners suffer when they finally meet their death? Hopefully. Will God suffer at the perishing of a world in rebellion? Yes, He will, but He must bring an end of sin and rebellion. It can't go on forever. Will family and intimate friends sorrow for the loss of their rebel loved ones? Yes.
You said,
"I decided that if I could discover the truth about life and Christian beliefs by the time I reached the age of fifty, if I could prove to myself that Christianity was true for myself, then I would go forward and walk along with Billy Grahams and the religious elite and expose myself as a full blooded fundamentalist."
Most of my adult life I went through various stages where I really wanted to find Christianity true. My family and I were members of a local church for a while, but my inner bullshit detector was always going off. I could never be convinced of the tenants of Christianity, but I did always believe in that loving God who sent good people to heaven and bad people to Hell.
It's funny that Andrew's little visit my have answered one of my questions as to why I became so obsessed. In the first couple months of my non belief I was reading a very lengthy letters section on an atheist website. Most letters spoke of the wonders of freeing one's self from the chains of religion, but once in a while a Christian like Andrew would chime in. I admit it would make me think, and perhaps get a little scared in the beginning when someone would mention that we were all going to Hell. I guess those little bumps in the road of my thinking made me keep digging and digging and make sure I really did have the truth.
Now when I read a silly comment like Andrew's I feel not an once of fear, only pity for those sucked into the mindset of fearing this all loving God who will send them to Hell if they don't bow down and kiss his ass.
I didn't see your post until after I clicked my last one to the conversation.
I have some news for you and you'd better listen and you'd better listen good. I had a very long email correspondence with a fundamentalist Baptist pastor that went on for about a year and you better believe that this guy knew the truth about God and the Bible.
One thing that he did convince me beyond a reasonable doubt is this: His brand of Christianity was the absolute correct and only way to salvation. He knew he had the truth.
Throughout our conversations he would tell me of all the sects that will meet the same fate of the atheists. Here are a few:
Catholics
Mormoms
Jehovah's Witnesses
and of course
Seventh Day Adventists.
So Mr. David I'll be seeing you in Hell(insert crazy mad scientist laugh here).
Just an aside, I do believe the late-great profit Jerry Falwell had a longer list of people destined str8 for hell, so here's a few more bound for hell.
* Atheists
* Jews
* Black people
* Buddhists
* Hindus
* Wiccans
* Mexicans
* Russians
* Children born out of wedlock
* Gays
* Interracial Families and their Children
* Witches
* Movie Stars
* All the non-believers in Jesus
* All adulterers
* Gamblers
* Drinkers
* Smokers
* All liars, except him of course
* Glutens, except him of course
* Anyone that did not support him and his church.
I'm sure there's more from J.F. and others the self-righteous hypocrites.
I guess the fact that there is so much division amongst so called Christians was another big deal sealer for me. I just hadn't a clue that so many so called sects of Christianity think the others are wrong.
The conclusion: Not all Christian sects can be right, but they can all be wrong.
Now do you think when a Baptist throws out numbers like this country being 85% Christian do you think they are including the false Chrisitians like the Catholics in this number?
"As an activist, I am a sixies style agitator and pamphleteer in the best tradition of my hippie parents, who have long sold out and become professionals." (emphasis Mine)
Tsk, tsk. Disrespecting your parents in public, young man? Can't even keep the 5th Commandment. Get your asbestos undies, luv... If Hell exists, you're coming along on the express toboggan with the rest of us heretics and apostates. Mwahahaha!
Great Quote!
Now do you think when a Baptist throws out numbers like this country being 85% Christian do you think they are including the false Chrisitians like the Catholics in this number?
No way! My extreme fundy parents constantly make fun of the Pope and call him the Anti-christ in disquise.
Little do they know or want to know, that Christianity is a direct offshoot of Catholics, they each have their mini Pope (pastor) to answer to each Sunday.
It's just willful ignorance.
I'm 16 and while I do believe in God, I don't find hets existence 'eternally important' (certainly not enough to facilitate religious wars!)
This was an interesting post - I related to it in so many ways that I finally decided to post on ExChristian after months of lurking.
I liked your statement about a "pretty good nap". That's how I feel about it too - sometimes when I'm exhausted, I just think about how completely wonderful an "eternal" sleep sounds!
I say "faith" to be less offensive to you than to say "God." Please, I'm genuinely not trying to be offensive. I hope you believe that. I'm going to read some more on your blog. I hope to leave more comments, unoffensive ones, that is. But at least, this way I can sound a little more intelligent as I see where you are coming from in your new-found atheism.
I say "faith" to be less offensive to you than to say "God."
Although you mean well, substituting the word "faith" for the word "God" doesn't work in any situation that I'm aware of, that is, since "faith" - that is, in the religious sense - simply means belief in "God". Of course, when one accepts something on "faith", they are implicitly employing a form of agnosticism.
Sorry to hijack your post xrayman but I need to answer Steve's comments.
Stevn Bentley, to answer your quentions:
"Bible God is in total conrol of the entire Universe, How could he have lost control of, or over Satan?"
Simple, Yahuweh gave us choice. He will not influence our decisions, He only wants to be with those who want to be with Him. Angels have a choice, but the choice has dire consequences. Like in the army, if a soldier disobeys his commanding officer he's gone, he has no right to disobey, but has the ability to. God gave man the special ability to reason, to communicate, to judge between right and wrong. It's what makes us able to have a relationship with Him. Love requires choice. We must choose if He is worthy or not to be loved.
"If the Bible God is in total control over all things, how could he have lost control over the very thing that he/himself invented?"
Simple, choice! He gave us free-will. If you want Him you'll have to find Him first. He told us it would happen when we didn't choose Him. There has to be evil in order to be able to choose good.
"Also if God created the earth in just six days, how come it takes over 200 million years for wood to become petrified?"
Easy, Christians are wrong in their interpretation of the creation account. In the original Hebrew the word create hardly appears, you'll notice creation naturally progressed over time, with life coming from the sea. You'll notice the Scriptures even has the order right. Time is not a constant, ask any scientist, our sun's 24 hour day is about 3 seconds slower than our 24 hours because it's mass is more! And how could a man write the creation account about 3500 years ago and still be in the right order. The sun might appear in the incorrect order but from man's perspective the atmosphere would've cleared by the fourth day allowing the sun to appear, also the Messiah appeared during the fourth Millennium of man's past 6000 year history.
"How could the Hawaiian Islands have been formed (raised) from the bottom of the ocean in just six thousand years to over 17,000 feet?"
Again, the Christians are wrong in the interpretation of Genesis because they have been indoctinated to believe the absurd. Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, and Genesis confirms it. Again, read Yada (from Hebrew, meaning to know in a relational sense) Yahweh, it explains it all.
"Such as the Noah's ark story. How come if man was so wicked that the bible god had to destroy all of his creations encluding the animals and could only commission a drunkard to build this huge boat with no tools, or drawings or nails, only wood and pitch. Yet the bible god could have just eliminated all evil and wickness with just the snap of his fingers."
Well the Scriptures show that Noah trusted God with the details given to him. Check www.wyattmuseum.com for it's remains found exactly where the Scriptures said it landed! Yes, He could snap His fingers, but He has a story of salvation to tell. It will happen again, Noah is a metaphor for the Jews (and the rest of the gentiles who believe) when Yahuweh comes to judge the earth again. Interesting, the second Millennium and second day of creation was about water and separation!
"Then soon after the flood we have Sodom and Gamorrah, the most wicked city to have ever existed, but it was more important that Lots wife not turn around and look at the city than it was for Lots two daughters to have sex with him, their own father Lot."
Well, they were living in a wicked city, his daughters were obviously a bit messed up. Let's remember Lot was also fast asleep when it occured, they conspired against him to get him drunk first so he would pass out. Their children gave birth to the Moabites and Ammonites, who Yahuweh told the Jews 400 years later to wipe out, of which they didn't of course. Check www.wyattmuseum.com for the remains of Sodom and Gomorrah exactly where the Scriptures say they were!
"Then it took forty days and nights for god to write the Ten Commandments, yet it only took him six days to create the whole entire universe."
Again, the Universe is 15 billion years old and 6 days old if you use Eintstein's theory of relativity. If you were present at the Big Bang, looking forward in time the Universe is only 6 days old, because of all the mass and energey concentrated there, the further away things got the the faster time ran. Just think of our Milky Way running on super fast-forward! Time is not a constant, even astonauts watches change by a couple of split seconds each trip. At the moment of the Big Bang time was 900000000000 times slower because of all the energy and mass. Going at the rate of the Universal Spiral time decreased by increments by a half for each day. We're still in the 6th day of creation, the era of mankind. Note: Light is the purest form of energy, it has the ability to create matter. Also note: It takes a bigger leap of faith to believe everything happened by chance instead of design intelligence. Try imagining a tornado whipping through a scrapheap and assembling a boeing 747 ready for take-off, the chances of that happening are greator than that of everything happening without a Creator present to guide His creation. He had Moses write most of the Law (which is pretty long) while up on the mountain, the 10 commandments pretty much cover everything in terms of loving God and one's neighbour.
"Religions are a mental sickness invented to comfort the fear stricken people, especially children, solely to mold them into religious conformity and to bilk them out of their money by using fear of a hell if they do not comply. Most people will comply and they know this."
That's exactly why Satan uses religion! Yahuweh, over and over again, says how the religious leaders will have the same destiny as the evil one for doing exactly that. I agree with you. Just as an intersting note: more people have been murdered in last century under the guise of socialist secular humanism than all of human history combined.
"Now I can comfortably say "I have finally cracked the code of absolute truth it's called reason and I honestly know it will lead one to the truth.""
This thing called political correctness destroys all ability to reason, being unable define between good and bad. In a free and democratic society, which the USA claims, they make sure that anyone who discerns and discriminates is punished, humiliated and silenced. They have shut the ability to make sound judgement. In a country of information overload the USA, and other "democratic" nations, still can't get it right. Your comments aren't based on reasoning, instead of jumping to conclusions without a thorough investigation.
And then you go say something like this: "Little do they know or want to know, that Christianity is a direct offshoot of Catholics, they each have their mini Pope (pastor) to answer to each Sunday." You are right in saying that Christianity is an offshoot of Catholism, however Constantine was a Babylonian sun-god worshiper, hence all the pagan traditons, such as Christmas, Easter, Lent, Sunday Worship, etc. involved in Catholism. Even the sign of the cross is pagan, for Yahushua was crucified on the upright pole. So now you've discovered the Truth, why don't you go one deeper and find out what the early believers followed at the time of the Messiah?
ANDREW, please note a third destination the Scripture also known as the second death, also as death and destruction, and the annihilation of souls. Those people who don't want to be with God and just go about their lives as usual will simply cease to exist upon death. God is a loving God and will respect a person's decision. If they don't want to have eternity with Him according to His ways then they will simply fall asleep and never awake again. Leading others astray is another scenario, it's then that they have the same destiny as the evil one. However, choose Yahushua (errantly known as Jesus) and live.
At the moment of the Big Bang time was 900000000000 times slower because of all the energy and mass. Going at the rate of the Universal Spiral time decreased by increments by a half for each day. We're still in the 6th day of creation, the era of mankind
------
To Boomslang,
I placing a wager here that you will have a 'glorious' field day with M's theories.
I wish I had the time to rip this one apart myself, but alas, I do not.
However, someone sure does need to!!
It never ceases to amaze me how xtians will shoehorn ANY wild idea to make science and god agree. I guess if you INSIST on holding a xtian god belief, one really has no choice but to find some crazy way to make the square pegs fit into the round holes.
Nothing a really big sledge hammer can't fix, right "M"?
ATF (Who also had to laugh HARD at this wyattmuseum site to)
"Try imagining a tornado whipping through a scrapheap and assembling a boeing 747 ready for take-off, the chances of that happening are greator than that of everything happening without a Creator present to guide His creation."
Wow I have never heard this one before. Just when I think I have the absolute truth all figured out, you come along and throw me this monkey wrench. I mean if you would have said the chances of a tornado blowing through a scrap heap and assembling a fully functional Dodge Neon are greater than everything happening without a creator, I would have said, "Get the fuck out of here," but a 747 wow. I no longer believe in evolution. Thanks for clearing my head of such nonsense M.
To paraphrase what he said: If the chances are greater for a storm to blow through a junkyard and create a 747 than everything to happen by chance without God, then God would even need a higher form of intelligence to create him, thus making God the ultimate 747.
I didn't say I disagree with Evolution, well with macro-evolution I do, but the point is it's absurd to believe everything happened without a creator present. The complexity is too great for random chance. God released just the right amount of energy for life to naturally occur on earth.
A question to posters, how did the Big Bang occur? If you were to say there was an explosion, I would ask what caused the explosion, if then you were to say it was light, then I would ask how did the light come to be? You get the picture... Scientist always stop one short.
Just copied and pasted, goes something like this:
---
Multiply the 15,000,000,000 year estimated age of the cosmos by 365.25 days per year so that both clocks conform to the same unit of measure. 15,000,000,000 years x 365.25 day/year = 5,478,750,000,000 days (plus or minus 10%).
To calibrate this 5.5 trillion day period to creation’s clock, respecting the relativistic nature of time, we must divide earth time in days since creation by the coefficient time was slowed at creation. Earlier, we determined this number by averaging the results derived from the four methods from which it can be deduced. We discovered that Big Bang time ran 0.9 x 1012 (900,000,000,000) times slower than earth time does today.
So here is the math: 5,478,750,000,000 days (plus or minus 10%) / 900,000,000,000 = 6 days.
---
He mentions quite a number of scientific methods used.
However, if you would just take a little bit of your time and read the book you'll understand why Christians are wrong in their interpretation of Scripture. You'll also discover that Genesis chapter 1 is far deeper than what is commonly known, as God used it for scientific, historical and prophetic reasons. This is how we know He is True, because His Word has never been wrong.
Science and Yahuweh do agree. Why? Because He created the laws of science. However, the issue is whether the scientists are right in their interpretations of their findings. The Scriptures is not supposed to be a scientific document, but if you dig real deep you'll find science confirms the Word.
I'm glad all of you agree that Christianity is wrong, because I agree too. I'm also annoyed at the church, their misinterpretations have lead many astray and prevented many from knowing Him. I left the church, it was when I had forgotten all the rubbish church doctrine I had learnt that I was able to find Yahuweh for myself.
"Light is the purest form of energy, it has the ability to create matter."
Unsupported assertion (and, in My opinion, not a particularly good assertion). Light is just one of many forms of energy on the electromagnetic spectrum, and it isn't even at the high end of the spectrum. Gamma rays are at the top end of the scale as we currently know it. Nonetheless... How can energy be 'pure' or 'impure'? Does not compute.
Even if you meant 'photons' instead of 'light', per se, it remains to be seen how photons create matter. You may be onto something, however... Perhaps you should take your hypothesis to the physics faculty of your local university and perhaps nab a Nobel Prize in twenty or thirty years.
No credible evidence for the existence of your "Yahuweh", though...
Now M, if I perceive correctly what you are trying to tell us is; Standing at the center from the center of the Big Bang, we could plainly see that the Universe is only 6 days old. by Wyatts calculations. Then the 7'th day of rest has not came yet for Yahuweh, which I'm almost sure you'll say it will be the final day that Jesus gets to rest in the bossom of Yahuweh for eternity.
So with that being in mind, then one can only presume that we (us all of us, including the living and all of those whom have died)are and is the preconceived part of the whole entire creation of Yahuweh and is still being created, with people still being born and planets and galaxies expanding, etc. etc.?
So with that being said, then Yahuweh already knew that someone would some day in fact build a 747 or a Rolex watch from our/his ability to create.
Now rolling back the years to 15 billion years ago, Yahuweh knew that you and I would some day be conversing on the internet, and he also knew that people would not understand where their beginning were from, so he commissioned a book that was to be inspired by his Holy Spirit, that first told of his desire for sacrifice of animals and burnt offerings, from 15 billion years ago, but from the present 6'th day, he knew that his word still could be trusted as verifiable 4000 years later, then Yahuweh knew that people were not going to change their ways, so he came up with the Son-Savior blood sacrifice salvation plan.
So he decided that an easy way for people to be with him on his 7'th day of rest, which has not occured yet, is to have their souls to be saved through the sacrifice and shed blodd of his only begotten son.
In the end it is just so simple, and Yahuweh knew this all along, he knew 15 billion years ago from the center of the Big-Bang, that 6 days later, the exact sperm that attaches itself to every ovum in every female animal and in humans with freewill souls attached, Yahuweh knew this and is trying to tell us that we are a part of him, and we have always been a part of this creation. Interesting!
Am I remotely close to this presumption?
"However, if you would just take a little bit of your time and read the book you'll understand why Christians are wrong in their interpretation of Scripture."
All of a sudden M of all people knows exactly what the scriptures are intended to mean. I think M is demonstating why there are hundreds and hundreds of differt Christian sects. He seems to be inventing a new one before our very eyes.
Thanks, "M", for illustrating this so perfectly.
...::burp::
"And how could a man write the creation account about 3500 years ago and still be in the right order."
One problem. It isn't in the right order. Not only are the sun, moon, and stars out of order, for which you offered a rather lame excuse, but Genesis has land vegetation, including fruit-bearing trees, appear on the third day, before the sea creatures appear on the fifth day. The first plants of any sort apperaed on land 425 million years ago, which is well over 100 million years after the first sea creatures. Also, Genesis has birds appearing before land creatures, which is incorrect. The history of the earth does not follow the timeline layed out in a ridiculously flawed ancient manuscript, but I'm sure you will keep trying to shoehorn it in somehow. I know I did when I was a Christian apologist. I cringe when I think back at how naive I was.
Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey
Thanks for your wonderful input of Biblical information. When I said in my original post that countering religious argument is second nature, I should have clarified that the exception would be if my counter arguments would need specific Bible knowledge. I can't make it through one page of that book of bullshit. I rely on people like you and the rest of the atheist Bible geeks for all my Biblical knowledge I have obtained, and as I said, I now know more about the Buy Bull than the vast majority of people who call themselves Christians. For instance I bet I could whip my very devout Catholic mother in law's but in Bible trivia just from what I have learned on this site.
I bet you're right, you do know more about the Bible than the majority of Christians. That's probably why they are still Christians, and why you will never be.
One of the best recipes of how to make an atheist is 1 part Bible knowledge, 1 part objectivity, and a dash of rationality. Works everytime.
Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey
Now when I read a silly comment like Andrew's I feel not an once of fear, only pity for those sucked into the mindset of fearing this all loving God who will send them to Hell if they don't bow down and kiss his ass.
LMAO That's one of the funniest things that I've read so far on this great website. I too enjoy the peace of mind that comes by knowing that we won't be going to the big barbecue pit in the ground. To Andrew and all the other christians that happen to read this. I say fuck the holy spook and the horse he rode in on!
But try this on for size:
I wonder if you've heard of the Apophis Asteroid 2004 MN4 due to arrive April 13, 2029. Now scientists say it will miss, however both Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 8:9 mention that it will strike. And the prophet John tells us its name (Apinthos) penned in the original Greek in Revelation 8:11. Errantly translated as Wormwood in the English versions.
Now by understanding God's time-line of events, His calendar, His Feasts, which nation is which described in Scripture (who's who in the zoo in other words), and prophecy in general we know the Tribulation will commence in 2026 and end in 2033. We also know the exact dates. Thereby meaning that Apinthos is right on schedule.
imaginary sky daddy, read my earlier posts concerning Hell, maybe you'll understand it better. Fire just symbolises judgement. But the majority of man won't end up there, rather, they'll have their souls dissipated upon death, they will cease to exist. There has to be three choices for God to be lovable. "I'll give him an offer he can't refuse" does not offer the exercise of freewill. If you don't choose Yahuweh you'll find yourself dissipated, unless you wilfully lead others away from God, thereby suffering eternal anguish in the light-less abyss, a place where God is not present.
God has given us everything we need in order to find Him and know Him.
M for Matt
"Franciscan monkey, any reason given by a believer to you will probably be lame according to you, as you've already chosen your destiny."
No, not really, many apologetics are not lame, even if they are incorrect. This one, however, does happen to be lame. I also notice that you failed to explain why other portions of the creation story are out of order with actual events.
M continued:
"I wonder if you've heard of the Apophis Asteroid 2004 MN4 due to arrive April 13, 2029. Now scientists say it will miss, however both Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 8:9 mention that it will strike. And the prophet John tells us its name (Apinthos) penned in the original Greek in Revelation 8:11. Errantly translated as Wormwood in the English versions."
First, the Greek word apsinthos (not apinthos, as you have it) isn't even close to Apophis.
Second, I'd like to place a wager with you. I say that Apophis will not hit Earth in 2029. You claim that it will. Let's bet $100,000 (US), adjusted for inflation with 2008 as the base year, on it. If you agree, then if Apophis hits Earth in 2029, even if it doesn't cause the destruction predicted in the Bible, I will pay you the $100,000. If Apophis doesn't hit the Earth in 2029, you pay me $100,000. We'd have until the end of 2030 to pay up. You game?
Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey
A strange occurrence will happen before the Tribulation starts and the world will join in one massive peace move because of it, at the same time any believers in Yahushua will be put to death because the believers stand in the way of this "peace" agreement, they will suppress the Truth so people can't find what's really happening. Believers will be ostracised from society. Even under today's agreement of being political correct it's the believers in Messiah that stand in the way of this false peace. We are the ones who stand for morality and speak out, but society tries to shut us up because we try present the Truth to them. The work of the Devil in other words. Exactly as Scripture says it is and says it will be.
And just before Apophis strikes, as it will, mankind would've almost obliterated himself through nuclear war. Just as Scripture says it will. And we can see today how this is developing to a point of no return.
Read Psalm 83 concerning Islam, is that not an accurate portrayal of the current status of Islam?
No I'm not turning away from the bet, but frankly, I have no money and don't plan to. If I had money to throw then I would, I know it will happen, the odds are 1/1, so I stand to win. However, I'll be out of here before the asteroid strikes, just as Scripture says we'll be out of here. And plus any money then will be worthless.
I'll try get back to you regarding the creation, will need to do some research and try present it in a way that's understandable.
I'll try get back to you regarding the creation, will need to do some research and try present it in a way that's understandable.
Don't bother; we understand all we need to understand about religion in general.
Don't you feel just a little hurt that your religion is now #2?
----
But beyond the timing and the description there is another fascinating Scriptural connection to Apophis. John tells us that the asteroid he is describing in revelation "has a name and it is called Apinthos (errantly replaced with "Wormwood" in English Bibles)." Apinthos (as it is rendered in the earliest Greek manuscripts versus Apsinthos in all reference dictionaries) and Apophis are remarkably similar names, one being of Egyptian origin and the other Greek. Apophis in Egyptian mythology is the name of "the evil spirit of destruction that will plunge the world into darkness." What a coincidence, that's exactly what John and Yahushua said Apinthos will do.
Every lexicon readily admits, and the Scriptural text clearly confirms, that Apinthos is a name and not a word, so it should have been transliterated in every Bible and not translated in any one of them. John's testimony says: "The name (onoma) of the aster is called (lego) Apinthos (αψινθος)." (Revelation 8:11) That's as clear as words allow. The simple truth is, the name can't be translated because apinthos doesn't mean anything. It is of "uncertain derivation."
----
Notice the word "aster" which is found in the original Greek, it means "asteroids, stars, or comets which can be seen radiating or reflecting light."
jimreal, how do you mean number 2? Yahweh wii always be number 1. As far as I'm aware I was going to put it in an understandable format for the readers. Cutting it down to size because I know there's a slim chance you'll read the book I mentioned.
"Unbelievable! Read Luke 16:19-31, where Yahushua says that even if a dead person was raised in front of their eyes they still wouldn't believe."
Lets see, in the Greek, Apophis is Αποφθίσις. In the Greek, apinthos is αψινθος. Yeah, I was right, they are not similar. You are the one who is unbelievable, trying to foist blatantly false assertations.
M wrote:
"Apophis in Egyptian mythology is the name of 'the evil spirit of destruction that will plunge the world into darkness' What a coincidence, that's exactly what John and Yahushua said Apinthos will do."
You may want to read the passage again, M. The author of Revelation says that apinthos, unleashed during the third trumpet, will turn a third of the water bitter. Nothing about darkness. It is the with the fourth trumpet that a third the sun, moon, and stars will be struck and somehow a third of the day will turn dark.
Since you will not accept the wager, will you at least publicly repudiate your claims if Apophis does not strike in 2029? Or will you just come up with an excuse?
Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey
I was writing about the World's largest religion, Islam. I guess you might have missed that news item. In other words, more people in the world now follow the ONE TRUE GOD, the GOD of ISLAM. Give my condolences to Jebus, will ya?
I was writing about the World's largest religion, Islam. I guess you might have missed that news item. In other words, more people in the world now follow the ONE TRUE GOD, the GOD of ISLAM. Give my condolences to Jebus, will ya?
"Unbelievable! Read Luke 16:19-31, where Yahushua says that even if a dead person was raised in front of their eyes they still wouldn't believe."
Lets see, in the Greek, Apophis is Αποφθίσις. In the Greek, apinthos is αψινθος. Yeah, I was right, they are not similar. You are the one who is unbelievable, trying to foist blatantly false assertations.
M wrote:
"Apophis in Egyptian mythology is the name of 'the evil spirit of destruction that will plunge the world into darkness' What a coincidence, that's exactly what John and Yahushua said Apinthos will do."
You may want to read the passage again, M. The author of Revelation says that apinthos, unleashed during the third trumpet, will turn a third of the water bitter. Nothing about darkness. It is the with the fourth trumpet that a third the sun, moon, and stars will be struck and somehow a third of the day will turn dark.
Since you will not accept the wager, will you at least publicly repudiate your claims if Apophis does not strike in 2029? Or will you just come up with an excuse?
Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey
----
But beyond the timing and the description there is another fascinating Scriptural connection to Apophis. John tells us that the asteroid he is describing in revelation "has a name and it is called Apinthos (errantly replaced with "Wormwood" in English Bibles)." Apinthos (as it is rendered in the earliest Greek manuscripts versus Apsinthos in all reference dictionaries) and Apophis are remarkably similar names, one being of Egyptian origin and the other Greek. Apophis in Egyptian mythology is the name of "the evil spirit of destruction that will plunge the world into darkness." What a coincidence, that's exactly what John and Yahushua said Apinthos will do.
Every lexicon readily admits, and the Scriptural text clearly confirms, that Apinthos is a name and not a word, so it should have been transliterated in every Bible and not translated in any one of them. John's testimony says: "The name (onoma) of the aster is called (lego) Apinthos (αψινθος)." (Revelation 8:11) That's as clear as words allow. The simple truth is, the name can't be translated because apinthos doesn't mean anything. It is of "uncertain derivation."
----
Notice the word "aster" which is found in the original Greek, it means "asteroids, stars, or comets which can be seen radiating or reflecting light."
jimreal, how do you mean number 2? Yahweh wii always be number 1. As far as I'm aware I was going to put it in an understandable format for the readers. Cutting it down to size because I know there's a slim chance you'll read the book I mentioned.
A strange occurrence will happen before the Tribulation starts and the world will join in one massive peace move because of it, at the same time any believers in Yahushua will be put to death because the believers stand in the way of this "peace" agreement, they will suppress the Truth so people can't find what's really happening. Believers will be ostracised from society. Even under today's agreement of being political correct it's the believers in Messiah that stand in the way of this false peace. We are the ones who stand for morality and speak out, but society tries to shut us up because we try present the Truth to them. The work of the Devil in other words. Exactly as Scripture says it is and says it will be.
And just before Apophis strikes, as it will, mankind would've almost obliterated himself through nuclear war. Just as Scripture says it will. And we can see today how this is developing to a point of no return.
Read Psalm 83 concerning Islam, is that not an accurate portrayal of the current status of Islam?
No I'm not turning away from the bet, but frankly, I have no money and don't plan to. If I had money to throw then I would, I know it will happen, the odds are 1/1, so I stand to win. However, I'll be out of here before the asteroid strikes, just as Scripture says we'll be out of here. And plus any money then will be worthless.
I'll try get back to you regarding the creation, will need to do some research and try present it in a way that's understandable.
wormwood
Greek Lexicon
"Franciscan monkey, any reason given by a believer to you will probably be lame according to you, as you've already chosen your destiny."
No, not really, many apologetics are not lame, even if they are incorrect. This one, however, does happen to be lame. I also notice that you failed to explain why other portions of the creation story are out of order with actual events.
M continued:
"I wonder if you've heard of the Apophis Asteroid 2004 MN4 due to arrive April 13, 2029. Now scientists say it will miss, however both Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 8:9 mention that it will strike. And the prophet John tells us its name (Apinthos) penned in the original Greek in Revelation 8:11. Errantly translated as Wormwood in the English versions."
First, the Greek word apsinthos (not apinthos, as you have it) isn't even close to Apophis.
Second, I'd like to place a wager with you. I say that Apophis will not hit Earth in 2029. You claim that it will. Let's bet $100,000 (US), adjusted for inflation with 2008 as the base year, on it. If you agree, then if Apophis hits Earth in 2029, even if it doesn't cause the destruction predicted in the Bible, I will pay you the $100,000. If Apophis doesn't hit the Earth in 2029, you pay me $100,000. We'd have until the end of 2030 to pay up. You game?
Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey
I'm 16 and while I do believe in God, I don't find hets existence 'eternally important' (certainly not enough to facilitate religious wars!)
This was an interesting post - I related to it in so many ways that I finally decided to post on ExChristian after months of lurking.
I liked your statement about a "pretty good nap". That's how I feel about it too - sometimes when I'm exhausted, I just think about how completely wonderful an "eternal" sleep sounds!
But try this on for size:
I wonder if you've heard of the Apophis Asteroid 2004 MN4 due to arrive April 13, 2029. Now scientists say it will miss, however both Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 8:9 mention that it will strike. And the prophet John tells us its name (Apinthos) penned in the original Greek in Revelation 8:11. Errantly translated as Wormwood in the English versions.
Now by understanding God's time-line of events, His calendar, His Feasts, which nation is which described in Scripture (who's who in the zoo in other words), and prophecy in general we know the Tribulation will commence in 2026 and end in 2033. We also know the exact dates. Thereby meaning that Apinthos is right on schedule.
imaginary sky daddy, read my earlier posts concerning Hell, maybe you'll understand it better. Fire just symbolises judgement. But the majority of man won't end up there, rather, they'll have their souls dissipated upon death, they will cease to exist. There has to be three choices for God to be lovable. "I'll give him an offer he can't refuse" does not offer the exercise of freewill. If you don't choose Yahuweh you'll find yourself dissipated, unless you wilfully lead others away from God, thereby suffering eternal anguish in the light-less abyss, a place where God is not present.
God has given us everything we need in order to find Him and know Him.
M for Matt
Now when I read a silly comment like Andrew's I feel not an once of fear, only pity for those sucked into the mindset of fearing this all loving God who will send them to Hell if they don't bow down and kiss his ass.
LMAO That's one of the funniest things that I've read so far on this great website. I too enjoy the peace of mind that comes by knowing that we won't be going to the big barbecue pit in the ground. To Andrew and all the other christians that happen to read this. I say fuck the holy spook and the horse he rode in on!
I bet you're right, you do know more about the Bible than the majority of Christians. That's probably why they are still Christians, and why you will never be.
One of the best recipes of how to make an atheist is 1 part Bible knowledge, 1 part objectivity, and a dash of rationality. Works everytime.
Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey
Thanks for your wonderful input of Biblical information. When I said in my original post that countering religious argument is second nature, I should have clarified that the exception would be if my counter arguments would need specific Bible knowledge. I can't make it through one page of that book of bullshit. I rely on people like you and the rest of the atheist Bible geeks for all my Biblical knowledge I have obtained, and as I said, I now know more about the Buy Bull than the vast majority of people who call themselves Christians. For instance I bet I could whip my very devout Catholic mother in law's but in Bible trivia just from what I have learned on this site.
"And how could a man write the creation account about 3500 years ago and still be in the right order."
One problem. It isn't in the right order. Not only are the sun, moon, and stars out of order, for which you offered a rather lame excuse, but Genesis has land vegetation, including fruit-bearing trees, appear on the third day, before the sea creatures appear on the fifth day. The first plants of any sort apperaed on land 425 million years ago, which is well over 100 million years after the first sea creatures. Also, Genesis has birds appearing before land creatures, which is incorrect. The history of the earth does not follow the timeline layed out in a ridiculously flawed ancient manuscript, but I'm sure you will keep trying to shoehorn it in somehow. I know I did when I was a Christian apologist. I cringe when I think back at how naive I was.
Respectfully,
Franciscan Monkey
Thanks, "M", for illustrating this so perfectly.
...::burp::
"However, if you would just take a little bit of your time and read the book you'll understand why Christians are wrong in their interpretation of Scripture."
All of a sudden M of all people knows exactly what the scriptures are intended to mean. I think M is demonstating why there are hundreds and hundreds of differt Christian sects. He seems to be inventing a new one before our very eyes.
Now M, if I perceive correctly what you are trying to tell us is; Standing at the center from the center of the Big Bang, we could plainly see that the Universe is only 6 days old. by Wyatts calculations. Then the 7'th day of rest has not came yet for Yahuweh, which I'm almost sure you'll say it will be the final day that Jesus gets to rest in the bossom of Yahuweh for eternity.
So with that being in mind, then one can only presume that we (us all of us, including the living and all of those whom have died)are and is the preconceived part of the whole entire creation of Yahuweh and is still being created, with people still being born and planets and galaxies expanding, etc. etc.?
So with that being said, then Yahuweh already knew that someone would some day in fact build a 747 or a Rolex watch from our/his ability to create.
Now rolling back the years to 15 billion years ago, Yahuweh knew that you and I would some day be conversing on the internet, and he also knew that people would not understand where their beginning were from, so he commissioned a book that was to be inspired by his Holy Spirit, that first told of his desire for sacrifice of animals and burnt offerings, from 15 billion years ago, but from the present 6'th day, he knew that his word still could be trusted as verifiable 4000 years later, then Yahuweh knew that people were not going to change their ways, so he came up with the Son-Savior blood sacrifice salvation plan.
So he decided that an easy way for people to be with him on his 7'th day of rest, which has not occured yet, is to have their souls to be saved through the sacrifice and shed blodd of his only begotten son.
In the end it is just so simple, and Yahuweh knew this all along, he knew 15 billion years ago from the center of the Big-Bang, that 6 days later, the exact sperm that attaches itself to every ovum in every female animal and in humans with freewill souls attached, Yahuweh knew this and is trying to tell us that we are a part of him, and we have always been a part of this creation. Interesting!
Am I remotely close to this presumption?
"Light is the purest form of energy, it has the ability to create matter."
Unsupported assertion (and, in My opinion, not a particularly good assertion). Light is just one of many forms of energy on the electromagnetic spectrum, and it isn't even at the high end of the spectrum. Gamma rays are at the top end of the scale as we currently know it. Nonetheless... How can energy be 'pure' or 'impure'? Does not compute.
Even if you meant 'photons' instead of 'light', per se, it remains to be seen how photons create matter. You may be onto something, however... Perhaps you should take your hypothesis to the physics faculty of your local university and perhaps nab a Nobel Prize in twenty or thirty years.
No credible evidence for the existence of your "Yahuweh", though...
I didn't say I disagree with Evolution, well with macro-evolution I do, but the point is it's absurd to believe everything happened without a creator present. The complexity is too great for random chance. God released just the right amount of energy for life to naturally occur on earth.
A question to posters, how did the Big Bang occur? If you were to say there was an explosion, I would ask what caused the explosion, if then you were to say it was light, then I would ask how did the light come to be? You get the picture... Scientist always stop one short.
Just copied and pasted, goes something like this:
---
Multiply the 15,000,000,000 year estimated age of the cosmos by 365.25 days per year so that both clocks conform to the same unit of measure. 15,000,000,000 years x 365.25 day/year = 5,478,750,000,000 days (plus or minus 10%).
To calibrate this 5.5 trillion day period to creation’s clock, respecting the relativistic nature of time, we must divide earth time in days since creation by the coefficient time was slowed at creation. Earlier, we determined this number by averaging the results derived from the four methods from which it can be deduced. We discovered that Big Bang time ran 0.9 x 1012 (900,000,000,000) times slower than earth time does today.
So here is the math: 5,478,750,000,000 days (plus or minus 10%) / 900,000,000,000 = 6 days.
---
He mentions quite a number of scientific methods used.
However, if you would just take a little bit of your time and read the book you'll understand why Christians are wrong in their interpretation of Scripture. You'll also discover that Genesis chapter 1 is far deeper than what is commonly known, as God used it for scientific, historical and prophetic reasons. This is how we know He is True, because His Word has never been wrong.
Science and Yahuweh do agree. Why? Because He created the laws of science. However, the issue is whether the scientists are right in their interpretations of their findings. The Scriptures is not supposed to be a scientific document, but if you dig real deep you'll find science confirms the Word.
I'm glad all of you agree that Christianity is wrong, because I agree too. I'm also annoyed at the church, their misinterpretations have lead many astray and prevented many from knowing Him. I left the church, it was when I had forgotten all the rubbish church doctrine I had learnt that I was able to find Yahuweh for myself.
To paraphrase what he said: If the chances are greater for a storm to blow through a junkyard and create a 747 than everything to happen by chance without God, then God would even need a higher form of intelligence to create him, thus making God the ultimate 747.
"Try imagining a tornado whipping through a scrapheap and assembling a boeing 747 ready for take-off, the chances of that happening are greator than that of everything happening without a Creator present to guide His creation."
Wow I have never heard this one before. Just when I think I have the absolute truth all figured out, you come along and throw me this monkey wrench. I mean if you would have said the chances of a tornado blowing through a scrap heap and assembling a fully functional Dodge Neon are greater than everything happening without a creator, I would have said, "Get the fuck out of here," but a 747 wow. I no longer believe in evolution. Thanks for clearing my head of such nonsense M.
Well, that can mean only one thing...
....More chocolate for Me!
At the moment of the Big Bang time was 900000000000 times slower because of all the energy and mass. Going at the rate of the Universal Spiral time decreased by increments by a half for each day. We're still in the 6th day of creation, the era of mankind
------
To Boomslang,
I placing a wager here that you will have a 'glorious' field day with M's theories.
I wish I had the time to rip this one apart myself, but alas, I do not.
However, someone sure does need to!!
It never ceases to amaze me how xtians will shoehorn ANY wild idea to make science and god agree. I guess if you INSIST on holding a xtian god belief, one really has no choice but to find some crazy way to make the square pegs fit into the round holes.
Nothing a really big sledge hammer can't fix, right "M"?
ATF (Who also had to laugh HARD at this wyattmuseum site to)
I say "faith" to be less offensive to you than to say "God."
Although you mean well, substituting the word "faith" for the word "God" doesn't work in any situation that I'm aware of, that is, since "faith" - that is, in the religious sense - simply means belief in "God". Of course, when one accepts something on "faith", they are implicitly employing a form of agnosticism.
I say "faith" to be less offensive to you than to say "God." Please, I'm genuinely not trying to be offensive. I hope you believe that. I'm going to read some more on your blog. I hope to leave more comments, unoffensive ones, that is. But at least, this way I can sound a little more intelligent as I see where you are coming from in your new-found atheism.
And we share the wife thing also? Although my wife is only slightly more religious that I am, she has been known to tell me to "Shut the Fuck up about your atheism crap."
This is unreal. I have heard the same almost exact words! I guess if we didn't have a lot of love for each other we may be doomed. When we do have disagreements, I hit the bike and the problems fade away! Jim Earl
Great Quote!
Now do you think when a Baptist throws out numbers like this country being 85% Christian do you think they are including the false Chrisitians like the Catholics in this number?
No way! My extreme fundy parents constantly make fun of the Pope and call him the Anti-christ in disquise.
Little do they know or want to know, that Christianity is a direct offshoot of Catholics, they each have their mini Pope (pastor) to answer to each Sunday.
It's just willful ignorance.
"As an activist, I am a sixies style agitator and pamphleteer in the best tradition of my hippie parents, who have long sold out and become professionals." (emphasis Mine)
Tsk, tsk. Disrespecting your parents in public, young man? Can't even keep the 5th Commandment. Get your asbestos undies, luv... If Hell exists, you're coming along on the express toboggan with the rest of us heretics and apostates. Mwahahaha!
I guess the fact that there is so much division amongst so called Christians was another big deal sealer for me. I just hadn't a clue that so many so called sects of Christianity think the others are wrong.
The conclusion: Not all Christian sects can be right, but they can all be wrong.
Now do you think when a Baptist throws out numbers like this country being 85% Christian do you think they are including the false Chrisitians like the Catholics in this number?
I didn't see your post until after I clicked my last one to the conversation.
I have some news for you and you'd better listen and you'd better listen good. I had a very long email correspondence with a fundamentalist Baptist pastor that went on for about a year and you better believe that this guy knew the truth about God and the Bible.
One thing that he did convince me beyond a reasonable doubt is this: His brand of Christianity was the absolute correct and only way to salvation. He knew he had the truth.
Throughout our conversations he would tell me of all the sects that will meet the same fate of the atheists. Here are a few:
Catholics
Mormoms
Jehovah's Witnesses
and of course
Seventh Day Adventists.
So Mr. David I'll be seeing you in Hell(insert crazy mad scientist laugh here).
I'll get it someday.
I saw a phrase online that describes M's comment:
"Weapons-grade stupidity"
You said,
"I decided that if I could discover the truth about life and Christian beliefs by the time I reached the age of fifty, if I could prove to myself that Christianity was true for myself, then I would go forward and walk along with Billy Grahams and the religious elite and expose myself as a full blooded fundamentalist."
Most of my adult life I went through various stages where I really wanted to find Christianity true. My family and I were members of a local church for a while, but my inner bullshit detector was always going off. I could never be convinced of the tenants of Christianity, but I did always believe in that loving God who sent good people to heaven and bad people to Hell.
It's funny that Andrew's little visit my have answered one of my questions as to why I became so obsessed. In the first couple months of my non belief I was reading a very lengthy letters section on an atheist website. Most letters spoke of the wonders of freeing one's self from the chains of religion, but once in a while a Christian like Andrew would chime in. I admit it would make me think, and perhaps get a little scared in the beginning when someone would mention that we were all going to Hell. I guess those little bumps in the road of my thinking made me keep digging and digging and make sure I really did have the truth.
Now when I read a silly comment like Andrew's I feel not an once of fear, only pity for those sucked into the mindset of fearing this all loving God who will send them to Hell if they don't bow down and kiss his ass.
May I speak to this question? As a Seventh-day Adventist christian, I understand the Bible to say that there is no hell, not at the present. When we die, we just sleep (in God's eyes). We lay in state awaiting the coming of Jesus and the end of this great controversy of sin and rebellion.
But the day of judgment is coming and then there will be hell. It will be done, and then be over with. Everything done in unrighteousness and without love will fail the big test and sin will forever be destroyed.
That may not sound very acceptable to you, but we see it done every day. Crime is punished and if it were not, no one would be safe. I'm punished in the consequences of my faults, as you are, no doubt. So the final judgment will be the great crescendo of all the punishments that have been required during this life.
Are we sad because our loved ones suffer from drug addictions and die? Do we suffer with them? Yes. Do the parents and family of death row prisoners suffer when they finally meet their death? Hopefully. Will God suffer at the perishing of a world in rebellion? Yes, He will, but He must bring an end of sin and rebellion. It can't go on forever. Will family and intimate friends sorrow for the loss of their rebel loved ones? Yes.
Strange the things we have in common. I also dropped a rather tepid god-belief about 2 years ago and have been obsessed with the debunking angle ever since. Also sober 31 years now. Also wish I could turn my obsessive personality towards something that would earn me more $$. My wife is rather a firm believer, like Jim, and I can't talk to her about this stuff, so this site and a few others are my only outlet. Thanks for sharing and for being strong enough as a human being to a) be so honest; and b) work in such a heartbreaking atmosphere, especially with the young kids. Guys like you deserve a medal.
For in the end, Hell is still there waiting
---
Andrew,
Now that you made this bold claim for this 'hell' place, I'd like to see you present the evidence you have for it's existence, along with your implied claim that it's waiting for us.
I could claim the mythical city of Atlantis and it's advanced race of humans once existed, but how many would believe it without evidence.
I could claim the center of our earth is hollow and is populated by humans, but "where is the proof", I'd be asked.
I could claim that all the Greek God myths were not just mere myths, but were in fact real gods, but again, who today would believe me.
So just because you have some ancient book that MAN put together, that makes mention of some 'hell' place, why should anyone accept your claim without you providing evidence of it, hmm?
Yes Andrew, I'm quite sure hell exists for you, at least in your dreams and fears, but I'm just as sure it can't exist in reality.
Prove me wrong Andrew, I double dare you !!
ATF (Who wonders if Santa Clause has been born-again, or will he also be sent to hell as well?)
What makes you think that any of us want to subscribe to your violent and morally bankrupt perspective on life? Why should we want to emulate the likes of you? Your concept of gods is insulting, to gods and mortals alike. All you can do is spit out impotent threats.
You, yourself, are a fitting representative of the evil that your god and your religion represent in the real world.
I wish you a lifetime of escalating doubt, failed prayers and futile searching, culminating finally in disillusionment, apostasy and freedom.
Have a good life, although over half of it is over at age 45.
But you will still have some good times.
Enjoy them.
For in the end, Hell is still there waiting.
I myself went along with the religionists until the age of about 45 or so, I decided that if I could discover the truth about life and Christian beliefs by the time I reached the age of fifty, if I could prove to myself that Christianity was true for myself, then I would go forward and walk along with Billy Grahams and the religious elite and expose myself as a full blooded fundamentalist.
But then there was the questions I never allowed myself to ask, mainly because I was too busy putting on the social mask,(trying to look and act like the typical American) and asking as to how if the Bible God is in total conrol of the entire Universe, How could he have lost control of, or over Satan?
If the Bible God is in total control over all things, how could he have lost control over the very thing that he/himself invented?
Also if God created the earth in just six days, how come it takes over 200 million years for wood to become petrified?
How could the Hawaiian Islands have been formed (raised) from the bottom of the ocean in just six thousand years to over 17,000 feet?
The more I questioned the socially accepted Bible stories, the more that they fell apart.
Such as the Noah's ark story. How come if man was so wicked that the bible god had to destroy all of his creations encluding the animals and could only commission a drunkard to build this huge boat with no tools, or drawings or nails, only wood and pitch. Yet the bible god could have just eliminated all evil and wickness with just the snap of his fingers.
Then soon after the flood we have Sodom and Gamorrah, the most wicked city to have ever existed, but it was more important that Lots wife not turn around and look at the city than it was for Lots two daughters to have sex with him, their own father Lot.
Then it took forty days and nights for god to write the Ten Commandments, yet it only took him six days to create the whole entire universe.
The Bible, it gets worse and worse and Christians make apologies and special pleading for their bible god.
Religions are a mental sickness invented to comfort the fear stricken people, especially children, solely to mold them into religious conformity and to bilk them out of their money by using fear of a hell if they do not comply. Most people will comply and they know this.
Now I can comfortably say "I have finally cracked the code of absolute truth it's called reason and I honestly know it will lead one to the truth."
Beliefs leads people away from truth, thats it's intentional agenda!
Thanks, Xrayman
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/yadayada
Main Entry: ya·da ya·da
--boring or empty talk...
—often used interjectionally especially in recounting words regarded as too dull or predictable to be worth repeating
Help me out here, Xchristies.
It was all a joke, right?
He was just putting us all on, right? Sometimes I really need to pinch myself to see if I'm really awake. Is he really promoting some new form of religious uglyism? Yada Yahweh.com, gimme a break!
It's nice so see so many others obsessed with the whole refutibiliby of religion business. For some reason it's just so cool feeling like you know something that 90% of America just doesn't see.
As far as my wife goes, she knows damn well religion is bullshit, but she is just too damn stubborn to admit it.
Anyhow, along the way I discovered this fantastic website with so many intelligent, thoughtful, and thought-provoking people. And once I get over my inital sputtering and spewing, even the random idiots that show up here are good for a few laughs. I too am obsessed with the science, history, and current events. Sometimes I just have to laugh at myself when I go through my list of internet favorites....folders like "Religious Idiots", "Stoopid Fundies", "Creationism WTF" to name a few.
Although my husband has never told me to "Shut the Fuck up about your atheism crap," (the f-word is baaaaaad), I've been known to tell him that about his xtianity BS. LOL
So between my husband AND living in the South, I want and need all the information and knowledge I can get. So I try to never miss a day of Ex-C....this is where I get my daily dose of sanity. Thanks to all!
Take care!
I am also an ex-boozer (big time) that is obsessed with atheism. Every day I peel off another layer and it seems to never end. It gets me HIGH!!
My wife hates that I spend so much time with my face in books. But I can't help it.
If lovin' it is wrong...I don't wanna be right! (..well, you know what I mean...?)
I send a HUGE thank you to Dave (webmaster) and you, sir. Ex-Xtian starts my day with a big dose of "REAL".
And we share the wife thing also? Although my wife is only slightly more religious that I am, she has been known to tell me to "Shut the Fuck up about your atheism crap."
Yes I am obsesed with exercise. It took the place of my obsessive drinking habit.
Thanks for your comments !!!!
Anyway, great post that I could have written about myself! Maybe we could both make an appointment with the shrink together to help rid ourselves of this religious obsession! I know my spouse would love that. She reminds me always that I am obsessed and suggests I get help. I respond that as soon as she gets help with her delusions, I'll get help for my obsessive behavior.
Thanks for sharing and keep it up! Jim Earl
I can definitely relate to the born-again evangelical atheism as I am guilty on many counts, but so much of what people take to be true rests on very shaky foundations and I still find it hard to let sleeping dogs lie haha.
Thanks for sharing :)
I'll try get back to you regarding the creation, will need to do some research and try present it in a way that's understandable.
Don't bother; we understand all we need to understand about religion in general.
Don't you feel just a little hurt that your religion is now #2?
Just an aside, I do believe the late-great profit Jerry Falwell had a longer list of people destined str8 for hell, so here's a few more bound for hell.
* Atheists
* Jews
* Black people
* Buddhists
* Hindus
* Wiccans
* Mexicans
* Russians
* Children born out of wedlock
* Gays
* Interracial Families and their Children
* Witches
* Movie Stars
* All the non-believers in Jesus
* All adulterers
* Gamblers
* Drinkers
* Smokers
* All liars, except him of course
* Glutens, except him of course
* Anyone that did not support him and his church.
I'm sure there's more from J.F. and others the self-righteous hypocrites.
Just an aside, I do believe the late-great profit Jerry Falwell had a longer list of people destined str8 for hell, so here's a few more bound for hell.
* Atheists
* Jews
* Black people
* Buddhists
* Hindus
* Wiccans
* Mexicans
* Russians
* Children born out of wedlock
* Gays
* Interracial Families and their Children
* Witches
* Movie Stars
* All the non-believers in Jesus
* All adulterers
* Gamblers
* Drinkers
* Smokers
* All liars, except him of course
* Glutens, except him of course
* Anyone that did not support him and his church.
I'm sure there's more from J.F. and others the self-righteous hypocrites.
Thats why you are so angry.
If you really didn't know, you would just laugh...but instead you rage.
Thats why you are so angry.
If you really didn't know, you would just laugh...but instead you rage.
Trust Him, not religious leaders who have changed the Word and twisted it for personal gain. Just spend a few minutes on the website and you'll understand what I mean. Yahuweh does not want to be worshipped like religious teachers teach, all He wants is a relationship with you, Father to son. No need to bow down, close eyes, do funny things, He just wants a familial relationship, no fear included, just love and respect.
Also learn how the Scriptures speak of three destination and not just two. Heaven, Hell and the Annihilation of Souls. Those that do not willingly lead others astray will simply have their souls annihilated when they die, they will cease to exist. Those who choose God will be with Him, those who aren't here nor there will simply cease to exist (majority of mankind), and those who lead others astray (religious leaders, politicians, media, etc.) will end up with the evil one.
Those that do not want to know Yahuweh will simply cease to exist, that's what the Word says, it's also what atheism says ironically. Choose Him and you will know Him, choose not to know Him and you won't know Him nor will He know you. Lead others astray and it's hell. And hell is not burning pain as the Church errantly preach, it's the absence of God, perpetual anguish as is knowing one will never see or feel God again, and emotional pain, not physical. The Lake of Fire is just symbolic for judgement. Fire symbolises judgement.
The world as it is now is because of Man's poor choices, we also know the exact day He comes back, He has shown it to those willing to study all of His Word, and to those who sincerely love him. Those who despise religion of all types, just as He despises religion.
Oh yes, and see how Yahushua (errantly known by the name Jesus)
did not abolish the Torah, find out how He holds it all together. Both Christians and Jews have it wrong. Yada Yahweh is all free and it will be the most unreligious book you'll ever read.
Found out how Yahuweh despises Christmas, Easter, the Catholic Church, Orthodox Christianity, Protestantism, Islam, Rabbinal Judaism, Secular Humanism, etc. but most importantly why He hates them. Even the sign of the cross has pagan origins in the ancient Babylonian sun-god religions.
Here's to choosing Life.
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