The apple of God's eye?
As many of you are aware, a Christian pastor in Illinois was killed on Sunday March 8, in his church, no less. Certainly, a terrible tragedy and I feel horrible for his surviving family. Nonetheless, this tragedy illustrates a common theme I have found among Christians: God had a special plan for this man, and that no way, interferes with His plan for me! In other words, they never consider that maybe God's plan was cut short by this child of God being executed, and that their own lives could fall pray to the enemy as God sits idly by, doing nothing!
Someone very important to me goes to a Bible study twice a week and watches numerous television episodes of Joyce Meyer, many in which Joyce proclaims that God has a special plan for all Christians. Of course, this special plan is never divulged, but you can believe, if its from God, its special! Anyway, this friend of mine feels that God has that "special plan" for their life, even though over the last six months, this person, despite praying every single day for a financial miracle (sometimes twice a day), has only made $4K!, which is below the poverty level! How much more evidence do you need? How can God ignore the heartfelt requests of the apple of his eye, I ask?
I asked this person today how they could put their trust and faith in a God that had just allowed (without raising his supernatural finger to prevent it, which would have been beyond easy) this pastor who is actively spreading His Word (which should get you some special favors in my opinion) to be slaughtered. How could you feel that God has got any special plans for you when you can plainly see other Christians just like yourself, who are being killed and that there is in fact, no "heavenly multitudes (as my former pastor recently put it) protecting you!
Christians die just like non-Christians. This person knows that I am an atheist, and I told this person, "Had God supernaturally stopped that bullet in mid-air and allowed no harm to come to his pastor," then that is the type of evidence I would consider to be from God. Alas, no such luck.
I am appalled by the arrogance of these Christians who sincerely think they are the "Apple of God's eye" and just cannot see reality in the face; they are special and surely the harm that befalls other Christians could not touch them, because their God will protect them!
Seriously, how can a Christian with this mindset ignore the killings of the Christian students at Columbine, Virginia Tech, the occasional missionary who is either killed or imprisoned, and feel that God is watching over them? Wouldn't God have more use for these wonderful Bible spreading people here on Earth than in Heaven?
Wake up people!
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Comments
Allowing a struggle inside our cocoon so we can become a butterfly.
Causing enough pressure on us to make us like a diamond.
Irritating us enough to make us into a pearl.
The eye is sensitive to touch and reflects what we see.
Am I sensitive to God and do I reflect what He shows me.
Jesus loves you and so do I.
As for your assertion 'Jesus loves you and so do I,' I doubt that very much. You wouldn't know Me if I passed you on the street, and if Jesus ever lived he's nearly 2000 years dead now.
Don't spread your love so thin that it becomes meaningless both to you and the recipient -- Use it to effect genuine change in your own community, rather than preaching mythology to people who are happy living their lives without it.
You've irriated me enough to toast you with the baptism of the Gideon Bible. Enjoy!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/49556906@N04/5019173346/
I remain unconvinced that I should build the philosophy of my life around either a pretty poem or a mythology manufactured by the Romans for political control.
Jesus loves nobody, because he is dead. The jesus you speak of never lived.
You do not love me, for, if you loved me, you would seek to enhance my life rather than attempt to drag me into slavery and servitude to a god which does not exist. If your god, as described in your holy book existed, it would not be a thing worthy of worship.
Even a potter who has decided to remould his clay does not blame the clay for his mistake, consigning it to an eternal kiln as punishment.
Or allowing a baby to struggle inside the womb to the point that the umbilical cord chokes it to death. Thanks "God"!
"Causing enough pressure on us to make us like a diamond."
Or causing enough pressure that we are driven to suicide. Thanks "God"!
"Irritating us enough to make us into a pearl."
Or irritating us enough that we develop cancer. Thanks "God"!
"The eye is sensitive to touch and reflects what we see."
The eye reflects what we see until around age 40, then it gradually stops working. Thanks "God"!
"Am I sensitive to God and do I reflect what He shows me.
My bullsh*t meter is sensitive to bullsh*t, and it is pegged right now.
So why does god keep poking us in the eye? Hey, that hurts. Knock it off god.
Wait, god is imaginary and we are poking our own selves in the eye. So I says to myself "Self, knock it off." Problem solved.
I don't know you and have no idea if I love you.
"By the way David. Christians don't die the same death as you and other non-believers"
*Unsubstantiated assertion. Either prove it, or STFU.
"Your spirit will take a completely different route upon leaving this earth."
See here*, above. Stick it in your memory bank.
"You do understand that you are a spirit, cloth in a body, don't you?
You do understand what I mean when I say "unsubstantiated assertion", don't you?
See here*, above.
"Read your bible sometimes just to humor yourself."
Finally, some good advice! Taking snakes, talking donkeys, and talking shrubs, right? Right up there with HR Puff-n-Stuff and Jungle Book! Hilarious!
—Isaiah 45:7
Yep, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy...NOT.
You will most likely argue that it means "changing his mind" but at the end of the day, he thought of doing evil and wicked things to all of mankind, and according to Paul, thinking something is the same as doing something.
So, it looks to me that Biblegod is either bi-polar, or an evil tyrant who thrives on manipulation and coercion.
Exodus 32:14 "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."
Jonah 3:10 ". . . and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."
Romans 8:29-30: For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:4-6 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[a] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
Romans 9: 17-18 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
So, please tell me why such a deity would be worthy of praise, worship, and adoration? I bet it's "just in case" and not genuine, free love. I've asked before if coercion is the same as love, and if God wanted fear rather than love. I've come to the conclusion that if Biblegod exists then he is pure evil, narcissistic, and no better than a man who abuses his wife and forces her to say she loves him while she is backed into the corner and trying to shield herself from his fists.
Thanks, but no thanks.
That is the biggest pile of cowpatties I have ever seen. Babe the Blue Ox wouldn't put out cow chips this big.
I'm with Boom. STFU
The bible is not meant to be a cafeteria where you pick and choose the parts you like. One last thing: we are not "ambassadors of satan" as you call us. We can't be ambassadors of something that doesn't exist, no more than we are rebelling against Thor or Zeus because we don't believe in them.
The bible says there comes a time to put away childish things, and that is what we have done. Religion was created by MAN to explain where lightening came from, how the earth came to be, and as a crutch because people in general fear death and want to desperately cling to some belief that there is something after death. No matter how hard people wish or how many want to buy into it, that doesn't make it true.
There are more Muslims than there are Christians, so why don't you read the Qu'ran and pray to Allah? The Qu'ran also preaches hellfire and damnation if you are a "Person of the Book" i.e. other Abramaic religions, and I don't see you groveling in fear of Allah. Why not? Muslims "feel convicted in their heart" just as much as you do, so how do you know THAT isn't the truth?
There is no way you can possibly know. Neither do I. There may be a creator somewhere, I can't say for sure if there is or there isn't, but I do know one thing: the deity in the bible isn't he/she and is not worthy of worship.
"So called" Christians are so called because they believe that Jesus is the messiah Christ, which is the only qualifying characteristic of the label.
Numinous experiences are not limited to professors of the Christian faith, and having undergone such an experience is not proof of anything. Even theologically, there is nothing to show that the experiences of one religion are true given that this would also mean indistinguishable experiences of other religions would be false.
Furthermore, experience of the "holy spirit" does not significantly differ from the effects of known material agents including, but not limited to, certain drugs, temporary neurochemical imbalances and some mental illnesses.
So, given the multitude of possible explanations both natural and supernatural for any "spiritual" evidence, yes you will have to provide evidence that your particular interpretation should be considered any more valid than any other, otherwise it won't be.
Who the hell are you???
You, sir, are not allowed to be in charge of accuracy as proven by your completely inaccurrate statements in your paragraph above. Not to mention the inaccuracies in your paragraphs below.
You are scary STUPID!
Ex-Pastor Dan
If you need the Bible to tell you what is right and just and what is wrong and unjust, then please, keep reading it and keep believing. We who are intelligent enough to think for ourselves and reason with facts decisively, know what is morally right and wrong, and it did not come from bronze-age book.
Honestly, I don't know how someone can think things like this are true yet walk down the street with the rest of us like a normal human being.
You truly need to be admitted to an asylum somewhere and be studied. You know, I usually try and be patient and kind to those with "beliefs" but when someone brings up the 'ole "modern day Sodom & Gomorrah" I can't help but instantly put you down on the lowest possible tier of intelligence.
You have no right to come here and tell us that we should be "on our knees" thanking the lord for not blowing us up yet, not to mention playing God for yourself by telling us that it is our souls that are damned and dark. Who are you to make that judgement? Who gave you the right? If your God does exist (which he most certainly does not) then it is up to him to judge, no? Therefore you are no better than those you say are damned. You truly are a self-righteous piece of trash. There is no nice way to put it.
You are scary STUPID! Do you realize you are commenting to a lot of posts that are over a year old?
What a fucking moron!
XPD
But of course, God would rather play games with us silly little beings. We're just his big ant farm, right? Like you said yourself,
"If everyone believed in God because He made them believe and worship him, then what satisfaction would God have from a bunch of robots who didn't choose to follow him, but were forced to?"
Good question... are you implying that we are here to give God satisfaction? You also mention him being delighted... what kind of God could get satisfaction and delight when he is omnipotent? He knows what is going to happen already, which makes those emotions useless. Yet another example of humans modeling God after themselves. And yet another example of why, if God were real, I would most likely choose not to follow him. I am not his plaything with which he gets delight from.
You also said "To be a Christian, does not mean that all are led by the spirit of God" and also "Being a born again Christian simply implies that we have redemption, because we have accepted the Gospel of Jesus Christ."
YOU ARE NOT BORN AGAIN.
For proof of your claim give us the details of how you came to be born again?
Also proof of real communication with God the Father and the power of divinity, I'm sure the Heavenly has shown you if you are truely an adopted child, a BORN AGAIN.
You talk underneath these people, and say you are a REPRESENTATIVE from Heaven, a born again is utterly spiritually deprived.
And you people all do this every single day on a day-to-day basis. You ignore evidence. You call everything you cannot explain "Gods will", or "Gods plan". Grow some fucking balls and ask yourself some questions. It is so disheartening to see people so goddamn brainwashed!
Do you know why the tangible proof we seek will never be met? It is NOT because we seek an unrealistic proof. It is because what you believe in does not exist, plain and simple. It is a deluded fantasy that weak-hearted and simple-minded sheep cling to to give them the answers that they themselves are scared of admitting that they do not know. A God that has the power to create a universe in six days surely has enough power to give the planet a sign that there is something worth believing in. But if all your God wants to do is play games with us and toy with our minds, then he can kiss my ass. Children dying of cancer, people starving, genocide, pedophilia, rape, murder, torture... yet you Christians attend your nice little church ceremonies on Sunday, with your nice collared shirt, and your pressed pants and nice shoes, and talk about how great things are with God, and how great it is that God gave you that new car. There is so much time and money spent on religion while we let real solvable issues fall to the wayside... hell, why worry about this stupid 'ole planet when this is just a pit stop on the way to heaven.
To free humanity from your unconscionable, inhuman and worse-than-useless death cult.
You are a sick man, Bill. You are ill with a belief that leads you to believe that it's a *good* thing to allow an innocent man to die in your place. Your life is propped up with the unstable and demented idea that a "loving" god could and would create a place of eternal punishment.
"Just because you are obviously depressed, should we all be?"
I, sir, quite enjoy My life. I enjoy it precisely because it *is* finite, and that My destiny is to be recycled into other forms of matter, for as long as the universe endures.
"And by the way I would personally know you if I passed you on the streets, because you all look the same! Feeling that God has let you down because you chose to live your entire life based on your own desires."
*KAPOW*
For that slander, Billw, may your dreams be haunted by the sight of your "loving" god casting each and every one of your real-life loved ones into the hell that you believe in. May you awaken in a cold sweat, screaming for mercy.
Until that morning when you will awaken and realize with surprise and relief that your faith is simply gone. And on that day, may you know what real peace of mind feels like, and enjoy many happy years thereafter with friends and family.
So as a mind reader you are a miserable failure.
In fact, I suspect you fail as any kind of reader. Otherwise, you might have noticed that you were responding to a post that's A YEAR OLD! Did it really take you that long to think of a response? Really, you needn't have bothered.
I am a recent defector of the Christian faith and whole heartedly agree with this statement.
There is no better description of the fictional god of Genises through Revelation than that of an abusive husband, and no better description of a Christian than that of a terrified and dependent wife who must constantly make excuses and lie for her abuser.
I am almost through reading the bible for the third time and it almost seems like a deliberate theme!
This is not what God wants. He wants each individual to come to Him on their own doing. We are givien free will to make decisions. You say God does not exist because he does not solve the world's problems. But lets say for the sake of discussion, that when you woke up tomorrow all the world's problems were cured. Would you then believe?
"What has God done for the financial crisis?"
Why should God have to do anything for the financial crisis? Do we deserve His blessings? We are a greedy and morally depraved nation who continues to push God out of our lives. The human race is evil in nature. Your argument seems to assume that man is generally good in nature, hence your distorted perception of this world. Since man in evil in nature there will always be wars, famines, disease, genocide, abuse and financial struggle. These are the consequences of man's sin.
Do dissenting viewpoints get published on here? I haven't seen my other two comments posted in the time that several other comments have come through...why the delay?
Yes.
Yes.
Whacked-out, warped and illogical blatherings -- steeped in obsessive compulsiveness are also published, as evidenced by your posts.
--S.
Atheism does not assert 100% that God does not exist; based on the lack of evidence for his existence, atheists do not believe in the existence of God. Atheists do not claim to know for certain. The burden of proof is on the believer, i.e. you. The onus is not on the unbeliever to prove non-existence.
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”
God has a plan for each and every one of us, but it is not revealed all at once. In fact, most people deviate from that plan because we are given the free will choose our path in life. All men sin and fall short of the glory of God. Therefore, we are all open to the consequences of sin which include things like death and financial woes. God is not some big cosmic teddy bears who winks at sin and then gives us whatever we (believer and non-believers) ask for. Just because someone is a believer doesn't mean they are going to coast through life without facing any adversity. This is preposterous.
I agree to your point that some Christians appear arrogant when they say that God has a 'special' plan for them, as if it is only His followers He is concerned about. We are all His creation and therefore He loves us all the same. Unfortunately, many people of the faith have felt this sense of entitlement because they are a believer in God. This prideful attitude is not and will not be rewarded by God. It is pride, in fact, that disrupts man's relationship and worship with God.
"Had God supernaturally stopped that bullet in mid-air and allowed no harm to come to his pastor," then that is the type of evidence I would consider to be from God. Alas, no such luck.
If it were only that easy then everyone would be a believer wouldn't they? If you are familiar with Christianity, then you know that there is a strong element of faith to it. People are always seeking concrete proof before they choose to believe in God. If everyone believed in God because He made them believe and worship him, then what satisfaction would God have from a bunch of robots who didn't choose to follow him, but were forced to? That's why we are given the choice to accept or reject Him. God delights in those who choose to follow and worship Him on their own doing, not because someone told them to do it or because of some existing, tangible proof that convinced them. However, this requires that we swallow our pride, something which all people struggle with regardless of our religious convictions.
The conversion experience is between you and God and he reveals Himself to people in different ways. Just because God didn't 'supernaturally' reveal himself in this particular incident is no reason to doubt his existence. Your isolation of this incident as cause for proof (or lack thereof) that there is no God only reveals your self-serving bias. The tangible proof you seek to support a belief in God will never be met because your expectations are unrealistic to begin with. Your expectations are shaped by a worldview which tells you that there is no God, therefore, you will look for any 'evidence' that continues to support this.
The bad is all around us. I don't suppose you pay much attention to the news? Wars, murder, rape and greed are just a few of the themes that dominate the headlines. Certainly in established first world countries, we don't feel the effects from many of these bad things to the same extent that a third world country might. While I agree that there are people in this world with the best of intentions, we all have the capability of doing and saying things that are inherently evil. It is naive of you to think otherwise.
I suppose that according to your idea of "looking outside of my comfort box" by coming onto this website and engaging in a discussion with you I would be stepping outside of my comfort box (and this isn't my first time, so don't feel too special). It is disingenuous of you to make such a bold and unfounded assertion regarding whether or not I believe in science. To be fair, however, science is not my guiding light, as it may be for you, but I do welcome scientific discovery in areas such as modern medicine and technology.
Who or what says there is no such thing as sin? Have you, in your finite human wisdom, come to this conclusion based on sound facts? The fact of the matter is that your worldview is shaped by a belief that there is no God, so anything that opposes that view is considered to be fatuous. Just as you say my point of view is delusional I can say the same about yours. The problem with your point of view is that you have created fictitious evidence in order to support your idea that there is no God. On the contrary, I have not created any evidence. The writing is on the wall, so to speak. You have made the choice to reject the Bible and its truth and you are absolutely entitled to your opinion. Are you 100% certain that God does not exist? Even Richard Dawkins is not 100% certain (see his interview with Ben Stein).
I have read books by Carl Sagan and many of the writings of Stephen J. Gould, but have not read "The God Delusion." But why do I need to? Is your viewpoint and the viewpoints of most atheists not a reflection of the writings and thoughts of those like Richard Dawkins? Why read a book when I can interact with the supporters of those viewpoints firsthand? In reading Sagan and Gould, I realized almost instantly that these men were profoundly intelligent. But it was also this acute thinking that lead them to question things beyond their intellectual capacity (i.e the meaning of life, proof for the existence of God). However, in their pursuit for answers their thinking became misguided. Because the evidence for God couldn't be tested by science, they assumed that there must be another explanation. Ergo, they began to search for other evidence, testable evidence...evidence that could only be explained by human reasoning and scientific logic. They assume, as you do, that there is only one right answer regarding the existence of God. This conclusion is faulty though because it consists of evidence and logic that man created in order to support his theory so that it might be seen as the truth. Man does not, and never will, have all the answers.
Time for me to crawl back into my comfort box now.
How do you know ANYTHING about god? I can understand you having BELIEFS about god, but they are subjective assumptions. It's best to say "I think", or "I believe" before your statements. Otherwise, your god ceases to be mysterious and has the same thoughts as you do.
What makes you more knowledgable than Sagan or Gould or Dawkins, pertaining to god? Don't tell me it's faith....that's an acceptance of the new testament's view of god regardless of any intelligent thoughts you might have. There is no evidence of the christian god apart from the new testament. To prove or disprove god is not possible. If it were, we would have known long ago. So is the new testament your comfort box?
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