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3/12/2007                                                                                       View Comments

How Christian Mind Control Works

By John Blatt

How does Christian Mind Control work?

Coercion is defined as, "to restrain or constrain by force..." Legally it often implies the use of PHYSICAL FORCE or physical or legal threat. This traditional concept of coercion is far better understood than the technological concepts of "coercive persuasion" which are effective restraining, impairing, or compelling through the gradual application of PSYCHOLOGICAL FORCES.

A coercive persuasion program - within Christianity it is called "The Gospel Persuasion" - is a behavioral change technology applied to cause the "learning" and "adoption" of a set of behaviors or an ideology under certain conditions. It is distinguished from other forms of benign social learning or peaceful persuasion by the conditions under which it is conducted and by the techniques of environmental and interpersonal manipulation employed to suppress particular behaviors and to train others. Over time, coercive persuasion, a psychological force akin in some ways to our legal concepts of undue influence, is MORE effective than pain, torture, drugs, and use of physical force and legal threats.

The Korean War "Manchurian Candidate" misconception of the need for suggestibility-increasing drugs, and physical pain and torture, to effect thought reform, is generally associated with the old concepts and models of brainwashing. Today, they are not necessary for a coercive persuasion program to be effective. With drugs, physical pain, torture, or even a physically coercive threat, you can often temporarily make someone do something against their will. You can even make them do something they hate or they really did not like or want to do at the time. They do it, but their attitude is not changed. In Christianity this is called a "false conversion".

This is much different and far less devastating than that which you are able to achieve with coercive persuasion. With coercive persuasion you can change a person's will without their knowledge and volition. You can create new "attitudes" where they will do things willingly which they formerly may have detested, things which previously only torture, physical pain, or drugs could have coerced them to do. In effect, their desires change, their viewpoints change, and their feelings change through this Gospel persuasion. Most people have no idea of the depth of change that this type of persuasion can bring into a person, even changing them in "an instant". This seems impossible and that is a part of its strength and deceitfulness.

The extreme anxiety and emotional stress production technologies found in Gospel Coercive Persuasion supersede any physical style coercion that focuses on pain, torture, drugs, or threat in that these physical systems of coercion do not change an attitude so that subjects follow orders "willingly." Christian or Gospel Coercive Persuasion changes both attitude AND behavior, not JUST behavior.

Christian or Gospel Coercive Persuasion (or thought reform as it is sometimes known) is best understood as a coordinated system of graduated coercive influence and behavior modification designed to change the wills and volition of individuals, usually in a group setting, in order for the originators of the program - those witnessing or preaching - to spiritually and psychologically profit from this persuasion to validate their own program and to continue the feeling that the program gives each converted person. This Gospel Coercive Persuasion is a psychological program that is inherently addictive in itself, because the program makes itself the sole purpose of life and feeling. This is one of the reasons why it is so hard on many levels to deprogram and be freed from this psychological addiction of this program.

The essential strategy used by those operating such programs is to systematically select, sequence and coordinate numerous coercive persuasion tactics over CONTINUOUS PERIODS OF TIME. There are seven main tactic types found in various combinations in the Christian Coercive Persuasion program. A coercive persuasion program can still be quite effective without the presence of ALL seven of these tactic types.

TACTIC 1. The individual is prepared for thought reform through increased suggestibility and/or "softening up," specifically through hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills (anything that is "moving" to the emotions as well as to the mind, i.e., worship music, dancing, embraces, stirring preaching or instructional teaching from a pulpit) and excessive repetition of routine activities.

TACTIC 2. Using rewards and punishments, efforts are made to establish considerable control over a person's social environment, time, and sources of social support. Social isolation is promoted ("You are not of the world", "Christ can to bring a sword"). Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share church-approved attitudes. Psychological and emotional dependence on the group is fostered.

TACTIC 3. Disconfirming information and nonsupporting opinions are prohibited in church communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled, especially communication from God. God's communication is one-way, via the bible, and nothing is to contradict that communication. An "in-group" language is usually constructed, sometimes called "Christianese."

TACTIC 4. Frequent and intense attempts are made to cause a person to re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control, and defense mechanisms as well as getting them to reinterpret their life's history, and adopt a new version of causality. This is usually called "sanctification" and "working out your salvation with fear and trembling."

TACTIC 5. Intense and frequent attempts are made to undermine a person's confidence in himself and his judgment, creating a sense of powerlessness. The only power that can help is God, or more precisely, the specific church's or Christian group's version of God. The eldership, church leaders, or "advanced" Christians are usually relied upon to understand the bible and for "encouragement" to "have the mind of Christ."

TACTIC 6. Nonphysical punishments are used such as intense humiliation (private and public confession of sin), loss of privilege (suspension or excommunication from the church or Christian group), social isolation (from the world and the "unbelievers" as well as from erring or heretical Christians that doesn't agree with their church or group), social status changes (from being a "respectable" and "stable" Christian to a "weak" or "unstable" Christian), intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques for creating strong aversive emotional arousals, etc.

TACTIC 7. Certain psychological threats (force) are used or are present: That failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief, or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequence, (e.g. physical or mental illness given by God, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, worldliness, personal economic collapse, social failure, divorce, failure to find a mate, etc.).

Another set of criteria has to do with defining other common elements of mind control systems. If most of Robert Jay Lifton's eight point model of thought reform is being used in an organization, it is most likely a dangerous and destructive cult. Conservative Christianity is a dangerous and destructive cult (please note that "dangerous and destructive" does NOT mean that it must be PHYSICAL. The dangerousness and destructiveness is a psychological, emotional and spiritual one. Just because Christianity doesn't normally create personal or public violence does NOT mean that it is not severely destructive on many other levels). If you are an exchristian or presently a Christian you will be able to see that every sentence of these following points are prevalent within Conservative, Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christianity. The eight points follow:

Robert Jay Lifton's Eight Point Model of Thought Reform

1. ENVIRONMENT CONTROL. Limitation of many/all forms of communication with those outside the group. Worldly books, magazines, letters and fellowship with unbelieving friends and family are taboo. "Come out and be separate!"

2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION. The potential convert to the group becomes convinced of the higher purpose and special calling of the group through a profound encounter or experience, for example, through an alleged miracle or prophetic word or spiritual feeling while within the group.

3. DEMAND FOR PURITY. An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, whether it be on a global, social, or personal level. "Perfection is possible if one stays with the group and is committed." (This "perfection" is associated with sanctification, "(Mat 5:48) Therefore, you be perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." "(2Co 13:11) For the rest, brothers, rejoice! Perfect yourselves"

4. CULT OF CONFESSION. The unhealthy practice of self disclosure to members in the group. Often (but not always) in the context of a public gathering in the group, admitting past sins and imperfections, even doubts about the group and critical thoughts about the integrity of the leaders.

5. SACRED SCIENCE. The group's perspective is absolutely true and completely adequate to explain EVERYTHING (A knowledgeable Christian can rebut any critical question presented and Christianity is the Truth and is capable to explain everything about life and spirituality). The doctrine is not subject to amendments or question. ABSOLUTE conformity to the doctrine is required. "(Mat 7:28) And it happened, when Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were astonished at His doctrine." "(Mat 7:28) And it happened, when Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were astonished at His doctrine." "(1Ti 4:16) Give attention to yourself and to the doctrine; continue in them, for doing this, you will both deliver yourself and those hearing you."

6. LOADED LANGUAGE. A new vocabulary emerges within the context of the group. Group members "think" within the very abstract and narrow parameters of the group's doctrine. The terminology sufficiently stops members from thinking critically by reinforcing a "black and white" mentality. Loaded terms and clich�s prejudice thinking.

7. DOCTRINE OVER PERSON. Pre-group experience and group experience are narrowly and decisively interpreted through the absolute doctrine, even when experience contradicts the doctrine.

8. DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE. Salvation is possible only in the group (Christianity). Those who leave the group are doomed.

Any group that has most or all of these points is a destructive mind control cult.

CHRISTIAN COERCIVE PERSUASION IS NOT PEACEFUL PERSUASION

Christian programs identified with the above-listed seven tactics have in common the elements of attempting to greatly modify a person's self-concept, perceptions of reality, and interpersonal relations. When successful in inducing these changes, coercive thought reform programs also, among other things, create the potential forces necessary for exercising undue influence over a person's independent decision-making ability, and even for turning the individual into a deployable agent for the organization's benefit without the individual's meaningful knowledge or consent.

Christian Coercive Persuasion programs are effective because individuals experiencing the deliberately planned severe stresses they generate can only reduce the pressures by accepting the system or adopting the behaviors being promulgated by the purveyors of the coercion program. The relationship between the person and the coercive persuasion tactics are DYNAMIC in that while the force of the pressures, rewards, and punishments brought to bear on the person are considerable, they do not lead to a stable, meaningfully SELF-CHOSEN reorganization of beliefs or attitudes. Rather, they lead to a sort of coerced compliance and a situationally required elaborate rationalization, for the new conduct. With this being said the mind will reconstruct its reality and will view everything through this new reality. The construct of this new reality, to the new convert, is perfect and whole and beautiful even though it is psychologically devastating and logically contradictory. The Christian mind cannot see its own blind-spots. It sees no contradictions, no dangers, no imperfections, yet this is the Matrix that is the Christian Coercion Persuasion Program.

Once again, in order to maintain the new attitudes or "decisions," sustain the rationalization, and continue to unduly influence a person's behavior over time, coercive tactics must be more or less CONTINUOUSLY applied, thus the need to be a consistent member of a local church or Christian "body". A fiery, "hell and damnation" guilt-ridden sermon from the pulpit once a month, an hour of bible study within the New Testament on sanctification once a week, or other single instances of the so-called peaceful persuasions do not constitute the "necessary chords and orchestration" of a SEQUENCED, continuous, COORDINATED, and carefully selected PROGRAM of surreptitious coercion, as found in the comprehensive program of Christian Coercive Persuasion.

Looking like peaceful persuasion is precisely what makes Christian coercive persuasion less likely to attract attention or to mobilize opposition. It is also part of what makes it such a devastating control technology. Victims of coercive persuasion have: no signs of physical abuse, convincing rationalizations for the radical or abrupt changes in their behavior, a convincing "sincerity", and/or they have been changed so gradually that they don't oppose it because they usually aren't even aware of it.

Deciding if coercive persuasion was used requires case-by-case careful analysis of all the influence techniques used and how they were applied. By focusing on the medium of delivery and process used, not necessarily the message itself, and on the critical differences, not the coincidental similarities, which system was used becomes clear. The Influence Continuum helps make the difference between peaceful persuasion and coercive persuasion easier to distinguish.

VARIABLES

Not all tactics used in a Christian coercive persuasion type environment will always be coercive. Some tactics of an innocuous or cloaking nature will be mixed in.

Not all individuals exposed to Christian coercive persuasion or thought reform programs are effectively coerced or converted into becoming Believers.

How individual suggestibility, psychological and physiological strengths, weakness, and differences react with the degree of severity, continuity, and comprehensiveness in which the various tactics and content of a coercive persuasion program are applied, determine the program's effectiveness and/or the degree of severity of damage caused to its victims.

WHAT ARE THE CRITERIA OF THE CHRISTIAN COERCIVE PERSUASION PROGRAM?

A). Determine if the subject individual held enough knowledge and volitional capacity to make the decision to change his or her ideas or beliefs.

B). Determine whether that individual did, in fact, adopt, affirm, or reject those ideas or beliefs on his own.

C). Then, if necessary, all that should be examined is the behavioral processes used, not ideological content. One needs to examine only the behavioral processes used in their "conversion." Each alleged coercive persuasion situation should be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. The characteristics of coercive persuasion programs are severe, well-understood, and they are not accidental.

Christian Coercive Persuasion is not a religious practice, it is a control technology. It is not a belief or ideology, it is a technological process.

As a PROCESS, it can be examined by experts on its technology COMPLETELY SEPARATE from any idea or belief content, similar to examining the technical process of hypnotic induction distinct from the meaning or value of the post-hypnotic suggestions.

Examining PROCESSES in this manner can not violate First Amendment religious protections.

Christian Coercive Persuasion is antithetical to the First Amendment. It is the unfair manipulation of other's biological and psychological weaknesses and susceptibilities. It is a psychological FORCE technology, not of a free society, but of a criminal or totalitarian society.

Any organization using coercive persuasion on its members as a CENTRAL practice that also claims to be a religion is turning the SANCTUARY of the First Amendment into a fortress for psychological assault. It is a contradiction of terms and should be "disestablished."

Coercive persuasion is a subtle, compelling psychological force which attacks an even more fundamental and important freedom than our "freedom of religion." ITS REPREHENSIBILITY AND DANGER IS THAT IT ATTACKS OUR SELF-DETERMINISM AND FREE WILL, OUR MOST FUNDAMENTAL CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOMS.

36 comments:

gimmeadrinkawater said...

This is really good information. It reminded me of EST and a couple of repressive individuals I've known in my life, not to mention any cult.

Joe said...

Logical and insightful treatment of the process as it pertains to the conversion of adults. "Training up children in the way that they should go" is a related xian activity. I suspect that it could be modeled as some sort of staged, micro version of the technology John Blatt is describing.

There is sad irony in the fact that groups that will fight to the death over the constitutional rights of an unborn fetus, shamelessly trample children's rights from the moment they breathe air.

Anonymous said...

This needs to be streamlined and corrected for usage and style.

Rich said...

To Anonymous:
The author did not ask for editorial advice. Even if you are an experienced editor you should know that unsolicited editorial criticism is never a good idea. Besides, your comment is very general. What style should the author have used? This is a matter for authors and editors to work out, not third parties.

May I suggest that you write directly to the author and ask him if he wants a stranger editing his work.

Lorena said...

To anonymous:

Geezz! I didn't know one had to be a professional writer to post here.

Learn what you can and ignore the rest--or just get a life.

Psychic Evolution said...

This information is in my upcoming book on Christianity and yes, it will be edited, streamlined and corrected. I usually post draft drafts of individual portions of my book to get some feedback. I hoped you like it.

Anonymous said...

Howdee!!!!
Could anyone tell me if there is a website that details or is interested in detailing corruption in Mega churches specifically.

Or...is there anyione out there who survived FOTW in Houston,Texas???

Please respoend thanks in advance for the assistance.

Anonymous said...

I had already left Antioch Community Church (in Belton) after reading Twisted Scriptures. I began to see the red flags in that book happen before my eyes when I lived in a dorm with one of the lifegroup leaders. (long story about being interrogated after I wanted to go to a different church). Well anyway, these were quite helpful too :)

Joann said...

That was a very interesting article about Christian Mind Control Techniques! It shows that, just because you are a Christian, it doesn't mean you should give up your own free will and be like everybody else. I struggle with this all the time, other Christians trying to make me into something I'm not, and then turning around and making me feel condemned just because I don't seem to measure up to their expectations of what a faithful Christian is supposed to be. I'm often interrupted and misunderstood when I try to get my point across, too. However, just because you've dealt with Christians and their mind control techniques, it doesn't mean you should leave your faith and become an ex-Christian. If anything, my negative experiences with other Christians have only deepened my faith and made me more determined than ever to continue learning, growing, and maturing as a Christian. You can call it guilt if you want to, but I call it maintaining my relationship with God while giving myself permission to think for myself and do my own thing. See? Not all Christians are bad!

Anonymous said...

Dear John,

I can tell that you have had a bad experience in one or more Christian groups. I have written a book based on Lifton's eight points, posted right on the internet, that I think you will be interested in reading. The website address is www.recognizeheresy.com I would like to know your thoughts about it.

Have a good week.

Sincerely,
Stephen Martin

Abi said...

This information is true, at least for the new fundamental non-denominational churches out there whos only goal is to "plant churches" (bottom line; make money). This abuse is the absolute worst type. I have been involved in one of these hell holes and luckily by the grace of the real, righteous God got out and into a safe place. It is the most messed up forms of manipulation and one year later I am still trying to fully recover from the psychological damage done due to the scewed views of very messed up people. These churches are the devil.

renderedtruth said...

While in this big well-populated world there may be some Christian cults who engage in "mind control" it is wrong to smear the entire religion with this very real and horrible practice. I am a victim of mind control and my assailant was a person I came into contact with in my personal life and had very little to do with religion. It was a woman who in conjunction with my sister who was a participant in est and the Bhagwan Rhajneesh cult deprived me of my income and befriended me with gifts.The woman's motivation was to gain a sexual partner.

Abi said...

I agree that it is wrong to smear all of Christianity...I am still Christian (I'm on this site because I have a first hand experience with this type of manipulation) and I love it. But there are still a ton of very dangerous churches who unfortunately claim to be Christian and shouldn't. I think those churches are the ones this site is targeting and ultimately trying to spread awareness on. However, there are plenty of healthy Christian churches out there.

boomSLANG said...

Abi...But there are still a ton of very dangerous churches who unfortunately claim to be Christian and shouldn't.

Pardon, but you've made an irrelevant distinction. I'm quite sure the church you attend makes a "claim to be Christian", too. In other words, until/unless the Christian biblegod is objectively defined; until/unless there is unity on what the Christian doctrine actually "says", then there's no objective method with which to determine which churches are "Truly Christian", and which are "dangerous". And even if that day comes to pass, none of it is conclusive evidence for the physical/metaphysical existence of "Christ".

Abi...I think those churches are the ones this site is targeting and ultimately trying to spread awareness on.

Um, no. You apparently haven't looked around "this site" long enough. BTW, did you happen to see the name of the site? 'Just curious.

webmdave said...

The bible is made up of many books, some written hundreds of years apart. Each book when read in context relates with one another and points us all to Christ- who I might add came to set us free, not control us!

Some books contain hidden meanings that weren't revealed until centuries later- after the death and resurrection of Christ. Even the Hebrew alphabet has proven itself to be sybolic.

If it was one book by one author I could understand what you are saying but with over 60 books written over a period of many centuries; it's just not humanly possble that it is written by a man with an agenda to control us alone (:

webmdave said...

According to the bible, that day for you will come... You'll have 3 years to take notes ( :

webmdave said...

Bunnie! :D: "According to the bible, that day for you will come... You'll have 3 years to take notes ( : "

First things first, Bunnie: As the Goddess of Punctuation, I hereby sentence you to 100 hours community service for wanton abuse of colons and parentheses.

Secondly, what makes you think that a group of EX-Christians believes what the Bible has to say about anything? It is arguably one of the stupidest books ever written, containing a lot of nonsense about people coming back from the dead, magic boats, and a god that throws its enemies into flaming pits.

It also mentions Talking Snakes™-- You wouldn't happen to know where I can get one of My very own, do you? If so, kindly Fed-Ex it to Me at your earliest convenience.

webmdave said...

By God! This is a fantastic article, I hope it will aid many, including me -- bloody hell O_O.

webmdave said...

Nevermind. A foolish comment none the less.

webmdave said...

Spade: "I suggest you humble yourself and repent. "

Been there, done that and found god either did not keep his part of the contract or I was mis-sold to by the evangelist. As the first party is imaginary it must have been the second option. Where are the fraud police when you need them?

Spade: "Christians are called the salt of the earth for a reason, because we preserve. Society would completely unravle(sic) without the Christian base."

What xtian base? Xtians are only called the salt of the earth because jesus called his disciples the salt of the earth. No other reason that that. Btw, if you were not in the audience at the time, you have no right to use that particular appellation.

Spade: "If the Christians in the churches didn't exhist(sic), your life would be hell."

Please expand on this. I agree that there would be fewer fools to amuse us, but there would also be fewer hypocrites, fraudsters, sheltered celibate paedophiles, etc. Please, without reference to your book of myths, justify this statement.

Spade: "It's better to believe in God and there not be one, than to not believe in God and have a penalty for that."

We've been through Pascal's wager before and demolished it. If you really want to know why this is unadulterated bovine faeces, ask and one of the gang will post the complete denouement of Pascal for you, I'm sure. Unless you can convince me of the validity of wasting my life on an uncertain myth, I intend to continue having a meaningful life based on what I know rather than on what you merely claim to know.

Peace and Happy New Year,

David

webmdave said...

Spade: "I suggest you humble yourself and repent. "

Been there, done that and found god either did not keep his part of the contract or I was mis-sold to by the evangelist. As the first party is imaginary it must have been the second option. Where are the fraud police when you need them?

Spade: "Christians are called the salt of the earth for a reason, because we preserve. Society would completely unravle(sic) without the Christian base."

What xtian base? Xtians are only called the salt of the earth because jesus called his disciples the salt of the earth. No other reason that that. Btw, if you were not in the audience at the time, you have no right to use that particular appellation.

Spade: "If the Christians in the churches didn't exhist(sic), your life would be hell."

Please expand on this. I agree that there would be fewer fools to amuse us, but there would also be fewer hypocrites, fraudsters, sheltered celibate paedophiles, etc. Please, without reference to your book of myths, justify this statement.

Spade: "It's better to believe in God and there not be one, than to not believe in God and have a penalty for that."

We've been through Pascal's wager before and demolished it. If you really want to know why this is unadulterated bovine faeces, ask and one of the gang will post the complete denouement of Pascal for you, I'm sure. Unless you can convince me of the validity of wasting my life on an uncertain myth, I intend to continue having a meaningful life based on what I know rather than on what you merely claim to know.

Peace and Happy New Year,

David

webmdave said...

Spade digs himself a hole with: "I know he's real because of many personal experiences that have confirmed my faith."

Sorry, "personal experiences" are not admissible as evidence here. I suspect that you merely had a fortuitous blip or two of statistical improbability or synchronicity, and just painted your pre-existing Christian brainwashing onto it.

"Just humbling yourself and asking for forgiveness or guidance when you are at the end of your rope, and the holy spirit literally comes inside of you and you can feel its comfort."

I've been at the end of My rope too, Spade. And I didn't need your "holy spirit" to climb back up. Please consider that the human mind does rather amazing things when subjected to extreme stress.

"Here's another thing I'm sure you have heard before but is still relivant: It's better to believe in God and there not be one, than to not believe in God and have a penalty for that."

I doubt very much that any god worthy of the name would be impressed by people who believe "just in case". That's a coward's way out.

And Pascal's Wager fails utterly the moment you introduce additional gods. What if {Athena, OĆ°inn, Diancecht, Shiva, Viracocha...} is the real deal? Are you able to will yourself into believing in a different god "just in case"? Based on My own experiences, I would say 'probably not'.

"Christians are called the salt of the earth for a reason..."

Because you cause plasmolysis in plants? Because you raise blood pressure?

"I suggest you humble yourself and repent."

I suggest you have a hundred nights of surreal dreams in which you slander the Holy Spirit in myriad fun ways. First up: Comparing the Holy Spook to a moldy slice of bread, while riding backwards on a paisley unicycle.

webmdave said...

Abi...But there are still a ton of very dangerous churches who unfortunately claim to be Christian and shouldn't.

Pardon, but you've made an irrelevant distinction. I'm quite sure the church you attend makes a "claim to be Christian", too. In other words, until/unless the Christian biblegod is objectively defined; until/unless there is unity on what the Christian doctrine actually "says", then there's no objective method with which to determine which churches are "Truly Christian", and which are "dangerous". And even if that day comes to pass, none of it is conclusive evidence for the physical/metaphysical existence of "Christ".

Abi...I think those churches are the ones this site is targeting and ultimately trying to spread awareness on.

Um, no. You apparently haven't looked around "this site" long enough. BTW, did you happen to see the name of the site? 'Just curious.

webmdave said...

Abi...But there are still a ton of very dangerous churches who unfortunately claim to be Christian and shouldn't.

Pardon, but you've made an irrelevant distinction. I'm quite sure the church you attend makes a "claim to be Christian", too. In other words, until/unless the Christian biblegod is objectively defined; until/unless there is unity on what the Christian doctrine actually "says", then there's no objective method with which to determine which churches are "Truly Christian", and which are "dangerous". And even if that day comes to pass, none of it is conclusive evidence for the physical/metaphysical existence of "Christ".

Abi...I think those churches are the ones this site is targeting and ultimately trying to spread awareness on.

Um, no. You apparently haven't looked around "this site" long enough. BTW, did you happen to see the name of the site? 'Just curious.

webmdave said...

While in this big well-populated world there may be some Christian cults who engage in "mind control" it is wrong to smear the entire religion with this very real and horrible practice. I am a victim of mind control and my assailant was a person I came into contact with in my personal life and had very little to do with religion. It was a woman who in conjunction with my sister who was a participant in est and the Bhagwan Rhajneesh cult deprived me of my income and befriended me with gifts.The woman's motivation was to gain a sexual partner.

webmdave said...

Howdee!!!!
Could anyone tell me if there is a website that details or is interested in detailing corruption in Mega churches specifically.

Or...is there anyione out there who survived FOTW in Houston,Texas???

Please respoend thanks in advance for the assistance.

webmdave said...

This information is in my upcoming book on Christianity and yes, it will be edited, streamlined and corrected. I usually post draft drafts of individual portions of my book to get some feedback. I hoped you like it.

webmdave said...

To anonymous:

Geezz! I didn't know one had to be a professional writer to post here.

Learn what you can and ignore the rest--or just get a life.

webmdave said...

This is really good information. It reminded me of EST and a couple of repressive individuals I've known in my life, not to mention any cult.

webmdave said...

I left organzed the organized church structure for this amoung other reasons including the political ideals the churches expect you to have. Though I still believe in God and Jesus i support you guys in pointing out the tactics of these people who call themselves spiritual leaders.

webmdave said...

spade,

How the heck did matter get here? or laws of gravity, inertia, etc. Kent Hovind has some good creation DvD's out there if you cared to check for yourself.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

That, lying, cheating, a$$h@le, fraud, scumbag -- kent hovind -- lives in a state penitentiary and his most recent appeal just got denied. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/12/11th-circuit-affirms-tax-.html

--S.

webmdave said...

I would agree with John Blatt's mind control observations. The baptist church I was going to was using many of those techniques and I found that most of the congregation when confronted with a real question would give a short bible verse out of context to answer it, and completly incapable or unwilling of critical thinking.

But I myself am still a Christian and understand the system spreading the word is corrupt. They have largely been paid off by the FED's and told in secret the agendas for the church threw a centralized post.

In reflections on this however, does not mean that God doesn't exhist or Jesus wasn't who he claimed to be. (AtheistToothFairy) Your attemps at flirting is pathetic, and you obviously have never had a personal experience with God/Jesus. I know he's real because of many personal experiences that have confirmed my faith. Just humbling yourself and asking for forgiveness or guidance when you are at the end of your rope, and the holy spirit literally comes inside of you and you can feel its comfort. Not believing in a God/creator of this universe I believe is more illogical than believing in one. How the heck did matter get here? or laws of gravity, inertia, etc. Kent Hovind has some good creation DvD's out there if you cared to check for yourself.

Here's another thing I'm sure you have heard before but is still relivant: It's better to believe in God and there not be one, than to not believe in God and have a penalty for that. And ATF, If the Christians in the churches didn't exhist, your life would be hell. Christians are called the salt of the earth for a reason, because we preserve. Society would completely unravle without the Christian base. I suggest you humble yourself and repent.

-spade

webmdave said...

I'm calling "poe" on this one.

webmdave said...

"Christians are called the salt of the earth for a reason, because we preserve. Society would completely unravle without the Christian base"

Please provide some examples of this claim. Consider this, when the early church was still in its infancy, the Chinese had already invented paper and the printing press. Babylon had already invented batteries and mathematics, so had the Greeks who had also calculated the diameter of the Earth (which was only a little off). The ruins of Knossos reveal a sophisticated plumbing/sewage system. The Mayans built road that stretched for miles, perfectly straight, and still exist today. None of these people were christians. Perhaps you are the salt of the Earth; try infusing salt with your garden and see what grows.

"They have largely been paid off by the FED's and told in secret the agendas for the church threw a centralized post." This is the most bizarre, paranoid statement I have heard in a while. We must be dealing with a gun-toting, militia klans man here.

webmdave said...

"Christians are called the salt of the earth for a reason, because we preserve. Society would completely unravle without the Christian base"

Please provide some examples of this claim. Consider this, when the early church was still in its infancy, the Chinese had already invented paper and the printing press. Babylon had already invented batteries and mathematics, so had the Greeks who had also calculated the diameter of the Earth (which was only a little off). The ruins of Knossos reveal a sophisticated plumbing/sewage system. The Mayans built road that stretched for miles, perfectly straight, and still exist today. None of these people were christians. Perhaps you are the salt of the Earth; try infusing salt with your garden and see what grows.

"They have largely been paid off by the FED's and told in secret the agendas for the church threw a centralized post." This is the most bizarre, paranoid statement I have heard in a while. We must be dealing with a gun-toting, militia klans man here.

webmdave said...

"holy spirit literally comes inside of you ..."

hope it uses a condom