What exactly does atheism prove? Absolutely nothing.
By Dave, the WM
Scouring the web this morning, I fell on an interesting website that dismisses all the testimonies on this site as being fakes, fabricated by a large group of people with evil intentions. What would these horrible liars be? What else?! Atheists!
From that site:
Before I provide the reference for that quote, I'd like to skip to another article on that site and provide another little snippet:
OK, these are the same old tired pro-Christian "anti-atheistic" statements we've all been told a thousand times. So why bother to post them again? Aren't the Christians doing that plenty enough already?
Well, here's why: The quotes above, although they are nearly word for word what Christians have written nearly every week on this site, these particular quotes were not written by a Christian, and I thought that was interesting.
More:
Here's the link to the blog where these quotes were copied: http://islamicapologetics.blogspot.com
Assuming the blog author just doesn't understand comma use, it seems to me that what he meant to convey is that following Islam is following something. Conversely, Atheism, or even Christianity, when compared to Islam, is nothing.
I think Islam is every bit as ridiculous as Christianity. But, if I were still a Christian, I might have to pause and think after reading statements like this defending Islam. Would I just chock it up to Satan counterfeiting good Christian apologetics so as to cause confusion? When I was still a Protestant Christian, and I heard Catholics defending their latest apparition of Mary, I'd think they were either lying, or if they really had visions, the visions were just a Satanic counterfeit. Occasionally, however, when logic would prevail, Catholic stories of silly apparitions and idiotic miracles would make me stop and questions whether I wasn't just fooling myself too.
So, here's a question: Why would an Islamic adopt the apologetic rhetoric of fundamentalist Christianity? Is it Satanic counterfeiting? Is it because these "reasons to believe" are so persuasive? Or is it something else?
What do you think?
Scouring the web this morning, I fell on an interesting website that dismisses all the testimonies on this site as being fakes, fabricated by a large group of people with evil intentions. What would these horrible liars be? What else?! Atheists!
From that site:
I want you to visit the following site: http://exchristian.net/testimonies/.
There you will see people who allegedly leave Christianity and write about it. There’s only one problem. Its hard to believe that those testimonies are real.
The problem is that anyone can log on to the ex Christian site and make up some bogus “leaving” my religion testimony. And well its hard to believe it because there’s no evidence that its real. For all we know it could be atheists, jews or even Muslims who make this stuff up.
Before I provide the reference for that quote, I'd like to skip to another article on that site and provide another little snippet:
An atheist has no purpose, no salvation, no afterlife… its like this world is it and that’s all we have. But because of this, that means that the atheists can drink, smoke, do drugs, rape, murder, etc. After all they only have one life to live… so why not live it to its fullest? So a world without God is a world worse than a world with God… there’s nobody holding us back from doing evil… Imagine a world where no law or order exist…. That would be an atheist world. Atheism is the belief that no God exist… and its atheism that actually hurts people rather than helps them. When somebody becomes an atheist, that means they are free to do whatever they want. Eventually they destroy themselves… using drugs, sex outside marriage, lying, cheating, stealing…. All these are fair game to an atheist. After all whos stopping them from doing these things? Atheism destroys the soul… it gives it no meaning, no purpose.
OK, these are the same old tired pro-Christian "anti-atheistic" statements we've all been told a thousand times. So why bother to post them again? Aren't the Christians doing that plenty enough already?
Well, here's why: The quotes above, although they are nearly word for word what Christians have written nearly every week on this site, these particular quotes were not written by a Christian, and I thought that was interesting.
More:
But if there’s more to this life? And that’s where Islam comes in.
Islam is the only religion on the face of this earth that actually has evidence for it. And it makes sense. There are no Chosen people, crucified saviors, idol worship, blind dogma…. It’s a religion that is beautiful, complex and makes sense if you think about it.
So I ask the reader…. Would you rather follow nothing or something? Would you follow something that is blind such as Atheism or Christianity or Islam, the only religion that has evidence for itself? The choice is yours.
Here's the link to the blog where these quotes were copied: http://islamicapologetics.blogspot.com
Assuming the blog author just doesn't understand comma use, it seems to me that what he meant to convey is that following Islam is following something. Conversely, Atheism, or even Christianity, when compared to Islam, is nothing.
I think Islam is every bit as ridiculous as Christianity. But, if I were still a Christian, I might have to pause and think after reading statements like this defending Islam. Would I just chock it up to Satan counterfeiting good Christian apologetics so as to cause confusion? When I was still a Protestant Christian, and I heard Catholics defending their latest apparition of Mary, I'd think they were either lying, or if they really had visions, the visions were just a Satanic counterfeit. Occasionally, however, when logic would prevail, Catholic stories of silly apparitions and idiotic miracles would make me stop and questions whether I wasn't just fooling myself too.
So, here's a question: Why would an Islamic adopt the apologetic rhetoric of fundamentalist Christianity? Is it Satanic counterfeiting? Is it because these "reasons to believe" are so persuasive? Or is it something else?
What do you think?
Comments
A person been born of this world by way of lustful sin is nothing but a fusion of diobolical mass waiting to grow up and resist God's holy teachings and to inflict and influence their abominations of evil and corruption upon the world, to end and destroy God's holy plan of salvation.
This is the agenda behind atheist thinking, wanting to destroy God's word and eliminate prayer from public places.
The atheist is plainly Anti-God and pro-Satan.
Regardless of you religion, if you are an atheist, then you are totally against God. The christian talks about revival, the muslim talks about holy ji-had(sp)
It's a war between God and Satan, and will continue forever, unless Satan becomes saved and asks Jebus or Allah to forgive him.
But the atheist, holds no beliefs and is the enemy of the universe.
Atheists repent and turn to God or Allah today, before it too late.
I do not get the notion of "making sense". Why does Islam "make sense"? What in particular about their religion is supposed to appeal to my reason? Let them specify, if they wish.
And what is this "evidence"? What "evidence"? I will tell you about evidence: we are talking about a race of savages who order their old women to carve out little girl's clits with rusty razor blades. There is the evidence we need. Fucking barbarians who ought to be pushed off the face of the earth.
And I do not wonder that they copy fundamentalist rhetoric. Birds of a feather.
He kept it too, for about 3 hours. Thank you jewjew.
understanding the giant hoax that religion is, was the key to my freedom. now i'm free to love my fellow man w/out any judgement or condemnation. i'm so much nicer & compassionate to people. my motives are now genuine, instead of a pre-manufactured borrowed thought. we're all in this struggle called life, & we all need basically the same things: the need to love & be loved, emotional, physical, & financial security. i am so thankful for pioneers of atheism who had the balls to speak up. websites like this one have helped me to grow & escape the 35 years of bondage called religion.
i didnt leave the lie because of someones testimony, i left if because i used my brain. you should try it some time.
An atheist has no purpose, no salvation, no afterlife… its like this world is it and that’s all we have. But because of this, that means that the atheists can drink, smoke, do drugs, rape, murder, etc. After all they only have one life to live… so why not live it to its fullest?
Yes, this life is all we have. Yes we should live it to the fullest. How do religious nuts go from that to murder, rape, etc? At times, I think they are saying:
"Without my religion, I would rape. I would murder, and I would steal. Since you don't have my religion, you must want to murder, and rape, and steal."
My lack of a need for a god in my life does not make me want to harm others, and I don't understand why it is so difficult for brain-washed religious nuts to comprehend that fact.
Furthermore, how is rape and murder equated to living life to its fullest? IMO, only a monster would define murder and rape as living life to the fullest.
I certainly do not define living life to the fullest in that way.
Actually, pretty much on a daily basis. If you're in Iraq. And a Sunni or a Shia.
Imagine a world where no law or order exist
Don't have to imagine it. I can ask any Iraqi, and increasingly, any Afghan.
its (sic) atheism that actually hurts people rather than helps them.
Yeah, with all those atheistic suicide bombers running around killing...oh, wait. It isn't atheist doing that, it is some other group. What's their affiliation again?
Why didn't Mr. Gulam also mention the following sites run by EX-MUSLIMS?:
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
Take a look. If these sites haven't been blocked in your home country!
Why can't they comprehend it? You answered your own question---because they're brain-washed.
Funny thing is--their little "moral" handbook, the "Holy" Bible, says that it's okay to kill those who would lead you away from their precious "God"(Deut). So.... I wonder if the ONLY reason they don't kill unbelievers is for fear of going to prison and/or getting the death penalty(?)
Any Christian want to chime in on this? *Your Holy book says it's okay to kill those who would lead you away from your God(that would be us, Atheists)
So?... what's stoppin' you? Oh, wait...what's that?..it's wrrrr, wrrrr, wrrrong, you say? How do you KNOW it's "wrong", if "God" said it's "right"? Surely you could kill one or two Atheists here and there without getting caught by law inforcement.
Listening.
Without the prospect of one day being touched by the FSM's noodly appendage, there is no ultimate purpose in life. Life would have no meaning. Those who do not believe in the FSM are free to live however they wish, harming others with abandon, thinking only of themselves, for nobody has an ultimate purpose (or so they believe). A world without belief in the FSM would be brutal and lawless. There would be unchecked looting and all manner of treachery. Without meaning, all of humanity would be lost. Any behavior is fair game to the apataist because nothing matters.
It's pathetic, I help people because I am human and have compassion, not because of some stupid story in the Bible called The Good Samaritan. I don't need to be told what is good and bad.
Muslims [and mainstream Jews], we must remember, also believe in this same God, the immoral and evil God that lives only in religious text and in their imagination. They are the people, not the atheists/agnostics, who cannot see the wood for the trees.
Go through the stats of crime committed in US cities; crime seems to be pervasive in cities with a high or higher concentration of God-believers. For all their faith, Christian/Catholic pastors/priests could not, it seems, resist the temptation of molesting/seducing children. Didn't their God tell them it is a sin to engage in such activities? Hypocrites or liars?
Just curious, is this your real name? You remind me of an author whose writing style I regard as simply top-class, and wish I had just 20 per cent of his writing skills.
rgds Telmi
Yes, Jim Arvo is my real name. I'm happy to hear that I remind you of someone whose writing you admire, whether or not I am that person. (I personally know of one other Jim Arvo, but he's a hockey player, and I don't think he's published anything--but I could be wrong.) If you name something written by that person, I'll tell you whether it was me. That's probably the easiest way to disambiguate.
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion."—Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate
The problem is that anyone can log on to the ex Christian site and make up some bogus “leaving” my religion testimony. And well it’s hard to believe it because there’s no evidence that it’s real. For all we know it could be atheists, Jews or even Muslims who make this stuff up."
Words... Mean something once they can be properly placed into context, but that takes personal interpretation... Great thing the bible is still around, so when someone writes something, we can actually look it up for ourselves...
As well, when a blog reports Christian behavior by preachers, etc., as being repugnant and immoral, well, a person can readily research a news site, in order to confirm the crimes...
How does one validate "one" blog, when the one giving the testimony provides no specific details? Uh, the same way they would validate their relationship with a god, if they were giving a testimony in church...
Amazing, how Christians are skeptical about open testimonies, but openly accepting of testimonies provided in church, with no evidence, and a lot of peer pressure, etc.
Regarding the something or nothing statement...
If "zero" means nothing, then it has to be something... If "zero" is something, then its meaning is nothing. So, it appears, one can actually believe in something, that really denotes; nothing.
And, finally, regarding the thread itself... "What exactly does Atheism prove? Absolutely nothing"...
I'd suggest an alternative use of words... What exactly "doesn't" Atheism prove?
The simple answer is; god(s)...
I mean, how many atheist are their in most of the jails in the world? I bet 99% would be inmates who believe in their god. That its alright to kill, rape, steal coz all you need is just one prayer of forgiveness to escape that eternal fire. And the other 1% will be converted to christians also!
My country is the Philippines and it is been said that we are the only Christian nation in asia or south east asia for that. And yet we are poor coz our churces teaches
"Bless are the poor for they will have the kingdom of god" while in the meantime the big churches takes money from the poor and they themselves have big houses, latest cars, all luxury. What a creep.
I wish someday the catholic church will have no longer a grip on lives brought by the bloody 15th century Spaniards!
For the fundie muslim, who would want a world born from terrorism? Kill the infidels! Only islam is true? Yeah okay, glory to god and then ka-boom! Thinking they will enjoy the 72 virgins with young boys serving them for all eternity.
Imagine a world without God? Try to open your eyes and see the reality today! There's no need for imagination! Here is the world with God believes and yet crazy theist people kill the other who does not believe the same god.
Have faith on Human Spirit rather than the Holy Spirit!
All people are born evil.
The rest of the nonsense comes from this belief.
That's a pretty insightful comment.
#1 I wont be giving support to a bunch of maniacs who brainwash their children into strapping on bombs and blowing themselves and innocent people to smithereens.
#2 I wont go to the mall and see all of the women walking around in bee keepers outfits.
#3 I wont believe that women are inferior to men, and should be considered property, because that kind of thinking disappeared from most civilized societies thousands of years ago.
#4 I wont be participating in the stoning of any young women to death for shaming my family by getting herself gang raped.
#5 I wont have that "Bhagdad Bob" look, that has "I am lying", written all over me, every time I am confronted with any of my idiotic Muslin learned behavior.
#6 I wont be idolizing and calling a bonafide psychopath "My prophet"
#7 I wont be compelled to perform all of the idiotic rituals prescribed by a religion that has been stuck in the dark ages for a thousand years.
To sum it up, I wont be following a death worshiping cult that is just as stupid as Christianity, but more so.
Dan ( ex-all-mythology)
Your debating style is very similar to that of Sam Harris - clear, informative, logical and of course very pursuasive. I enjoy reading your input, and Sam's in his recent debate [Is Religion "built upon lies"?] with Andrew Sullivan
rgds Telmi
Dave thanks for taking time for reading my post. Please visit my blogger site again, for my response.
-Ehteshaam Gulam
Why do Muslim countries ban web sites critical of their faith? Is their faith not strong enough to stand up to scrutiny?
According to Ali Sina people who criticize the Quran and the Hadith are "silenced" in Islamic countries. Ali Sina says "Muslims are cocooned in lies" because there is no open dialog in Islamic countries.
http://www.humanists.net/alisina/wean_from_islam.htm
Also, just wondering, do you believe in the mythological story that a person can ride a winged horse to "heaven" and back to earth? You speak of evidence on your web site....any evidence of this?
Cheers
It all sounds so like "Dressing up a pig"
I also get from the few self styled Muslims that I have read on the net, a certain sense of "I am saying this shit because I want to be different"
Dan (Have Muslim basketball players gone out of style?)
#1 I wont be giving support to a bunch of maniacs who brainwash their children into strapping on bombs and blowing themselves and innocent people to smithereens.
#2 I wont go to the mall and see all of the women walking around in bee keepers outfits.
#3 I wont believe that women are inferior to men, and should be considered property, because that kind of thinking disappeared from most civilized societies thousands of years ago.
#4 I wont be participating in the stoning of any young women to death for shaming my family by getting herself gang raped.
#5 I wont have that "Bhagdad Bob" look, that has "I am lying", written all over me, every time I am confronted with any of my idiotic Muslin learned behavior.
#6 I wont be idolizing and calling a bonafide psychopath "My prophet"
#7 I wont be compelled to perform all of the idiotic rituals prescribed by a religion that has been stuck in the dark ages for a thousand years.
To sum it up, I wont be following a death worshiping cult that is just as stupid as Christianity, but more so.
Dan ( ex-all-mythology)
neither will any muslims
Rather it is the religious theists who have to provide support for their claims.
"By Ali Sina"Islam is a religion of peace". This is what our politically correct politicians keep telling us. But what is politically correct is not necessarily correct. The truth is that Islam is not a religion of peace. It is a religion of hate, of terror and of war...........
..........."Quran tells Muslims to kill the disbelievers wherever they find them (2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (9:123), slay them (9:5), fight with them (8:65 ), strive against them with great endeavor (25:52), be stern with them because they belong to hell (66:9) and strike off their heads; then after making a “wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives” for ransom (47:4)...............
I concur with you. The Quran is supposed to be a copy of the original stored in Heaven, so it cannot be modified or edited through human input. Presumably, everything written in it came from Allah. But just read many of the passages, the examples you cited for instance, about killing of non-believers. If anything else, Islam is NOT a peaceful religion. I have to tell Allah to kiss my ass for talking crap.
When you stop searching for the reason and cause for our existence, and just go to the default position in the bible, that God did it, you lock in to a dead end paradigm, and are therefore dependent upon the constructs of that paradigm for all of your answers. In effect, you let someone else do your thinking for you.
For the Christian, that becomes a flawed book pieced together by men two thousand years ago. Those men, if they were transported into a fifth grade classrooms of one of our better schools today, would not be able to compete intellectually. They would appear to be retarded.
So if you die believing lock stock and barrel in a literal interpretation of the bible, it is no different from dying, believing in the Quar'an. Either way you may die to soon for a faulty cause. God, (whatever caused us), HATES THAT!!!
Dan
Your gentle nudge up against Franca's fragile, mystical, delusional, world was more of an appropriate rebuttal than mine would have been.
I was just going to remind Franca that she/he was crazy, but I'm sure that when she looks around and sees all the locks on the doors, she already knows that.
Dan
...Band of hungry infidels fillets and eats Arabian moon-god, lightly breaded and served up with tartar sauce, chips and malt vinegar.
Then I visit some atheist forums or blogs and I see lots of bigotry and hate against those who do follow a religion, even if just moderately.
It strikes me that fundamentalist religious people and vocal, active atheists are somewhat like 2 sides of the same coin.
The moderate, level-headed atheists are probably doing the same thing the moderate, level-headed Catholics and other Christians, and Muslims are doing: going about their daily lives as best they can without bothering anybody very much. When I was a practising Catholic (born into it), I never went around telling people I was a Catholic, and when I'm being an agnostic or atheist, I don't advertise the fact either.
The Christians have their commandments to follow, and the atheists don't (unless it's some kind of inner voice), but in the end, when self interest is involved, both act pretty much the same in the face of opportunity.
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