Wisdom, comfort, and direction from the Word of God?
By Dave, the WM
Those words comprise a popular Christian chorus that I've probably sung a thousand times or more. I recall seeing my own hands lifted in the air, tears of joy on my cheeks, feelings of ecstatic jubilation filling my soul... Ah yes, the power of God's Holy Word, made alive with the help of some amplification, a few modern musical instruments, a huge overhead screen, and just a touch of emotion-laden message in tongues &mdash it all made for a powerful drug.
All in all, it was a tremendously good way to put people in the mood for whatever the pastor might deem important to say.
But why did we stop there? Why didn’t we sing the entire psalm?
Why not add more from Psalm 5, like:
Accusations of "you are taking the scripture out of context," and "you are a hater" are constantly lobbed at those who criticize Christianity. So, if quoting something out of context is bad and hatred to be avoided, why isn't it wrong to completely ignore portions of the Bible?
What about singing the Imprecatory Psalms? Here's a nice segment from Psalm 69:22–28:
That doesn't seem to fit too well with "Love your enemies," does it?
How about this little sentiment from Psalm 109:8–15?
Remember, this is the Holy Word of God! Sheesh, whoever authored those words, sure was a hater! Imagine that song being used to open the service!
But let's jump back to "out of context." Here's a great verse that is misused on a continual basis:
I was taught by the Billy Graham organization to memorize that verse and use it when witnessing to unbelievers. But verse 19 says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." And verse 21 says, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."
In context, that verse is obviously directed to believers. That verse has no application to non-believers. Using that verse when witnessing to unbelievers is using the verse completely out of context. But nary a Christian bats an eye at doing it!
I'm convinced that Christians do not know or understand their Bibles. They think they know the Bible, but all they really know is dogma that is being taught from the popular pulpit. They learn the 23rd Psalm, but are oblivious to the psalms that advocate hate. They memorize favorite verses, but are blind to the context surrounding those verses.
Christians aren't sheep. They are ignorant cherry pickers.
"Give ear to my words, O LORD
Consider my meditation
Hearken unto the voice of my cry,
My King, and my God
For unto thee will I pray
My voice shalt thou hear in the morning
O LORD, in the morning will I direct my prayer
Unto thee, and will look up." — Psalm 5, vs. 1–3
Those words comprise a popular Christian chorus that I've probably sung a thousand times or more. I recall seeing my own hands lifted in the air, tears of joy on my cheeks, feelings of ecstatic jubilation filling my soul... Ah yes, the power of God's Holy Word, made alive with the help of some amplification, a few modern musical instruments, a huge overhead screen, and just a touch of emotion-laden message in tongues &mdash it all made for a powerful drug.
All in all, it was a tremendously good way to put people in the mood for whatever the pastor might deem important to say.
But why did we stop there? Why didn’t we sing the entire psalm?
Why not add more from Psalm 5, like:
"Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies). Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies. For there is no faithfulness in their (mine enemies') mouth; their (mine enemies') inward part is very wickedness; their (mine enemies') throat is an open sepulcher. Destroy thou them (mine enemies) O God; let them fall by their own counsels; cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions."
Accusations of "you are taking the scripture out of context," and "you are a hater" are constantly lobbed at those who criticize Christianity. So, if quoting something out of context is bad and hatred to be avoided, why isn't it wrong to completely ignore portions of the Bible?
What about singing the Imprecatory Psalms? Here's a nice segment from Psalm 69:22–28:
"May the table set before them become a snare; may it become retribution and a trap. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever. Pour out your wrath on them; let your fierce anger overtake them. May their place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in their tents. For they persecute those you wound and talk about the pain of those you hurt. Charge them with crime upon crime; do not let them share in your salvation. May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous."
That doesn't seem to fit too well with "Love your enemies," does it?
How about this little sentiment from Psalm 109:8–15?
"May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership. May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow. May his children be wandering beggars; may they be driven from their ruined homes. May a creditor seize all he has; may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor. May no one extend kindness to him or take pity on his fatherless children. May his descendants be cut off, their names blotted out from the next generation. May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD; may the sin of his mother never be blotted out. May their sins always remain before the LORD, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth."
Remember, this is the Holy Word of God! Sheesh, whoever authored those words, sure was a hater! Imagine that song being used to open the service!
But let's jump back to "out of context." Here's a great verse that is misused on a continual basis:
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." — Revelation 3:20
I was taught by the Billy Graham organization to memorize that verse and use it when witnessing to unbelievers. But verse 19 says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." And verse 21 says, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."
In context, that verse is obviously directed to believers. That verse has no application to non-believers. Using that verse when witnessing to unbelievers is using the verse completely out of context. But nary a Christian bats an eye at doing it!
I'm convinced that Christians do not know or understand their Bibles. They think they know the Bible, but all they really know is dogma that is being taught from the popular pulpit. They learn the 23rd Psalm, but are oblivious to the psalms that advocate hate. They memorize favorite verses, but are blind to the context surrounding those verses.
Christians aren't sheep. They are ignorant cherry pickers.
Comments
~AA
If there is, indeed, some basic “Truth” on which the Bible is founded, then the open and honest discussion of this “Truth” and its many corollaries should always be welcomed. It is not. Generally speaking, my observations are that: The “Biblicalists” don’t want to hear it and many Atheists/Agnostics think it’s a waste of time.
Too bad, methinks. In most other subject areas, if there is more than one solution or explanation to a problem, all possibilities are discussed, usually with the “Pros” and “Cons” of each clearly delineated. It should be so with all religions and religious dogma. But, alas, it is not permitted and is even punishable by torture and death in many countries today – thankfully, not the US, at least, not yet.
And Psalms was an excellent place to start your discussion. Psalms runs the gamut from beauty to hate. Who knows if David really wrote ANY of those (let alone all of them...even though in my experience, most fundies think he wrote them all). Assuming, David DID write them, I just find it extremely ironic/remarkable/hilarious that a man "after god's own heart" (a very LOVING god at that...haha) would be so inclined to hate, murder, envy, etc etc., and that Christians turn such a blind eye! Even if they assume (as many do) that the old testament means nothing because Jesus came, how can you ignore such base, HUMAN characteristics in a god?? Fundies want to say god's so loving, but if god doesn't EVER change...and if a man after his own heart was such a murderous, vengeful HATER one second but so loving the next...at minimum, he/she is a sociopath, and how could that be a good thing?
Think about it, christians! Shall we try to imitate the mind set of ancient middle eastern warriors or shall we become our own people and make our own sense of the world?
Follow christian dogma is foolishness! Come on, people, we should KNOW BETTER BY NOW!!!!
Except, these same Christians who are inclined to dismiss the Imprecatory Psalms as irrelevant in "this dispensation" will turn right around and quote "The Lord is my shepherd" from Psalm 23 and "The Fool hath said in his heart" from Psalm 14 as authoritative truth.
My father-in-law is one of those who picks and chooses one verse and ignores the next with impunity. I handed him a pair of scissors one day and challenged him to go ahead and cut out the irrelevant parts of the Bible and only leave the relevant parts so I would know the "real truth" and not be confused by all the "no longer applies" parts of the Bible.
He looked confused for a minute and shut up.
I just realized my reply was barely coherent...glad you got something out of it!
I get so tired of the incessant, cockamamie attempts by christians to use biblical "cherry picking" and "out-of-context" arguments. The bible says...what it says...what it says...WHAT IT SAYS (if you get my meaning). To take it literally and as the inspired word of ANYTHING other than some deranged buffoon is ridiculous and untenable anyway, but if you ARE going to take that position, you should accept it all...the good AND the bad.
But of course, that's not possible, because if christians didn't compartmentalize, they'd soon realize just how ridiculous most of the bible's positions truly are. To be a christian is to create your own realm of fantasy where you can have your cake and eat it, too.
As to your anecdote about your father-in-law...in similar situations, I've been told that I "simply want to cause trouble, and that no christian is supposed to debate with people like that" and that it is "such a shame you (talking about me) don't use your intellect for god." I'd much prefer the silence...at least that way you know you got through to them a LITTLE BIT--even if it was only to make them mad.
Your posts/replies are a pleasure to read, as always.
If one could prove beyond any trace of doubt that a creator existed, one would still need to prove that this creator is the one and only judeo-xian god. If you see order and design in nature, that is fine with me, because the observation of nature tells us that the creator must be a bloodthirsty predator.
Have you ever seen a Down's syndrome child? Have you ever seen children born with terrible and incurable diseases? Have you ever seen hideous deformities? Do you call any of these things "intelligent design"?
And do not try to tell me that god must have some secret purpose that we cannot be privy to. An all-powerful god need not harm innocent children in order to accomplish his goals.
Okay, I will acknowledge your deity, as he is revealed in nature; I will glorify power above all else, and trample the weak under my feet. Praise god.
Fair enough?
Is that the biblical version of sanforized? Are you pre-shrunk for the lord?
Additionally, I have never heard nature testify to anything.
Life is a riot of chemical complexity and organic chain reactions that busts out wherever it damn well feels like. Its orderliness is pure confirmation bias on the part of human ego.
I perceive nothing special or "divine" in the forms that humans happen to be able to see. If roses and sparrows and pretty sunsets didn't happen to exist, the religious among us would look at something else and call that a "creation"... Even if it had three heads, fifteen Velcro-like feet, and exuded low-level pulses of gamma rays.
We're looking at the survivors of an eons-long biochemical sorting process. Nothing more. Not a creator-god, and certainly not that vicious and genocidal piss artist Biblegod.
As Ryan pointed out, the magical godly "design" is ofttimes more malevolent than intelligent... And many proponents of ID and similar "goddidit" systems are rather selective about what they see as divinely influenced. I think it's dishonest to credit a god with all the pretty stuff and pretend not to see the various miscues such as Ebola, AIDS, congenital defects, and the plethora of diseases that affect every living thing.
And just plain friggin' stupid to blame the bad stuff on myths like the Fall, or on imaginary demonic underlings.
I, Myself, don't want any credit or blame for what nature does on its own. I'm content to collect seeds from the wildflowers in the vacant lot across the road, feed the local flora and fauna, and raise a glass to the scientifically well-explained turns of the seasons.
"I am sorry that you are so disalusioned, but even nature testifies of the fact that there is a higher power that keeps eveything thing in order and sancranized.
Well your "Higher Power" isn't doing a very good job keeping everything in order and sancranized.
You should be apologizing for your God's irresponsible behavior, along with the propaganda that christians like yourself continue to shove down other people's throats.
ANONYMOUS WROTE:
"I'll pray for you, my friend"
Typical weak minded statement from another weak minded christian fool like yourself.
Funny that you christians can't find any type of realistic defense against your so called claims.
So when you fail to prove your point, you just tell someone that you will pray for them. Which is really your way of saying, "I can't find any type of realistic evidence to back up my faulty belief system and claim that Jesus and the Bible is real".
Pray all you want. It will do you no good. The fact is that all of you christians are losing ground, and all of you are starting to panic. That's why people like you my dear "Anonymous Fundy Friend" choose to post on this site, because you are getting scared because Jesus has failed to show his face in the past 2,000 years.
You christians are scared to death, because you are losing the battle.
However if you feel that your prayers will do any good, tell Jesus to show up in physical form and reveal himself. Then I will believe what he says.
Until then, you along with every other christian fundy nut who posts on here have no credibility with people like myself. Nor does your 2,000 year old book of superstitious fairy tales.
I hope that one day you will find reality, and throw away your crutch called "Christianity".
Learn how to think for yourself.
Poltergoost
"even nature testifies of the fact that there is a higher power that keeps eveything thing in order and sancranized."
You also need to stop talking to flowers and trees Anonymous Fundy.
I guess you've been eating Flo's Flapjacks/Mushrooms. That explains why you make such claims.
Wow, Dave! It takes SOME guts to speak to an in-law like that.
Good for you!
Thanks for the tip.
Revelation 3:20 is referring to non- believers. "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if ANY MAN hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Any man; seems sorta self explanatory to me.
And since I am new to the site I must pose a question, if you do not believe in Christianity then why do you spend so much of your time fighting it? According to you "x-tains" are all idiots chasing after a whim. Why do you feel so compelled to fight them?
but hey, what do I know?
but hey, what do I know?
I'm not quite sure what you know, if much at all. So, why don't you tell us what you "know", and back it up with some facts?
In the mean time, here's a few things you evidently don't know:
1) What this website is all about.
2) How to create an alias/pseudonym
3) How to conceal the fact that you are a disgruntled Christian who has a chip on his shoulder because you stumbled upon a website full of people who don't believe in your myth.
HA HA
Ahh, 'My Dinner with Jebus'. I doubt that anyone, anywhere has actually heard that hypothetical divine voice... Although I have no doubt whatsoever that many people think they've heard it.
"If you do not believe in Christianity then why do you spend so much of your time fighting it?"
Because, in many countries, Christians are trying to force their beliefs into secular law.
Because, right at this very moment, there is a little kid crying in the dark in his bed because some self-righteous asshole told him he deserved to go to Hell.
And because Christianity simply makes no sense.
“My father-in-law is one of those who picks and chooses one verse and ignores the next with impunity. I handed him a pair of scissors one day and challenged him to go ahead and cut out the irrelevant parts of the Bible and only leave the relevant parts so I would know the "real truth"
Next time give him a quill pen with the scissors and add this:
“When you are through cutting out the irrelevant parts, take this pen and add whatever you think will get you more money and ass.”
Just like the authors of the Holy Buy Bull did.
Just today I ended up in yet another pointless - but fun - argument with a christian who, when I brought up the fact that the bible proclaims that god lies to us just so he can send us to hell (2 Thes 2:8-10), said that I needed to look at the whole bible and not just a single verse.
I almost got him to admit that he tosses out the parts of the bible that conflict with his belief, but he stopped mid-sentence and changed the subject with one of those "But what about..." comments.
I gave up after that. But was fun just the same. I like watching the gears turn in their heads as logic and reason almost poke through, but then are squashed at the last minute.
I think it was Thomas Pain that said "To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead."
- Lance
(Sorry about the anonymous post, but I can't find my blogger password.)
In a weird synchronicity it ended up pretty similar to the gnostic 'Gospel of Thomas', which was only discovered later.
Hmm.
From John Gill's Exposition of the Bible:
Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door and knock�
The phrase of standing at the door may be expressive of the near approach, or sudden coming of Christ to judgment, see (James 5:9) ; and his knocking may signify the notice that will be given of it, by some of the immediate forerunners and signs of his coming; which yet will be observed but by a few, such a general sleepiness will have seized all professors of religion; and particularly may intend the midnight cry, which will, in its issue, rouse them all:
if any man hear my voice;
in the appearances of things and providences in the world:
and open the door;
or show a readiness for the coming of Christ, look and wait for it, and be like such that will receive him with a welcome:
I will come unto him, and sup with him, and he with me;
to and among these will Christ appear when he comes in person; and these being like wise virgins, ready, having his grace in their hearts, and his righteousness upon them, he will take them at once into the marriage chamber, and shut the door upon the rest; when they shall enjoy a thousand years communion with him in person here on earth; when the Lamb on the throne will feed them with the fruit of the tree of life, and lead them to fountains of living water, and his tabernacle shall be among them. "
From H.A. Ironside's commentary of Revelation:
And so we see the Lord standing at last outside the door of the professing church, and saying so tenderly, “Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me.”
Anony-bot: Chapter III, vs. 14-20 of Revelation is addressed to the lukewarm church of Laodicea. However you interpret that section, in no way was it intended as a witnessing tool to pagans. That section is a rebuke toward apathetic Christians.
Isn't learning new things fun?
When I was young and growing up in the church, I never heard anything negative about religion or the church. Thanks to the internet, all that has changed. The revolution has started. Long live sanity, truth and reason.
anonymous, I do not speak for the others, but I will explain a few of my own motivations.
First, I am still angry at being so taken in by this trash calling itself "the body of xrist"; a pack of rats who took a poor hurting boy and filled his head with a lot of nonsense about what the lord was going to do for him. I feel violated.
Second, the military analogy does not follow all the way through.This is not a fight with winners and losers, but there is a chance--a good chance--that some xian may read our stuff and will be encouraged to defect; to cross over to the enemy, as it were. There are lots and lots of xians who get fed up with that charade that they act out, and one whiff of the sweet breeze of freedom and they're outa there. We are not soldiers. We are like the Scarlet Pimpernel, saving a few aristocrats from the guillotine.
And third, it is hard to resist these imbeciles who come in here wearing a sign that says "Kick me". That rodent who thinks that the natural world "testifies" to some "higher power". I do not really think that there is anything above nature, but I shudder at the very thought of some monster actually creating it.
Perhaps this might clarify matters for you, anonymous.
"even nature testifies of the fact that there is a higher power that keeps eveything thing in order and sancranized."
This is an excellent examnple of what certain people have pointed out abut "godtalk." since the words are really meaningless, it makes as much sense to say "Jesus saves" as it does to say "Igaboo saves." In this case, we may rejoice in the fact that the higher power has sancranized us, and it makes as much sense as anything else Xians say.
“I think it was Thomas Pain that said ‘To argue with a man who has renounced his reason is like giving medicine to the dead.’”
Isn’t that the truth! This last weekend I got into a debate, if it could be called that, with a xtian who maintained, among other things, that if I could not prove him wrong, then he was right! When I suggested that logic proved otherwise, he flatly stated that logic was bullshit. The proofs of his assertions, when I told him that this did not prove that, were no more than the rudely uttered statement “Yes it does”, that said over and over. He took prepositions made by scientists and then declared them to be fact, proven by scientists and then used them to prove god though god was never mentioned. While this was going on his wife was expounding on the fulfillment she receives from her maker, the only one who could truly understand her. She too, avoided the G-word.
I got the impression later on, that they had been coached to do this as a way to start a conversion process, by discussing religion without mentioning religion.
Sometimes certain versions of the Bible are hard to understand. The Message is really easy to understand. It's not great for in depth study but it's handy for comprehension. It also seems to be numbered slightly different.
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
The Antichrist's coming is all Satan's work. All his power and signs and miracles are fake, evil slight of hand that plays the gallery of those who hate the truth that could save them.
And since they're so obsessed with evil, God rubs their noses in it- gives them what they want.
Since they refuse to trust truth, they're banished to their chosen world of lies and illusions.
Dave,
The Bible never says David was sinless. He was a man after God's own heart. That is most likely because he exposed himself completly to God.
He was a man who had a woman's husband killed in battle. He commited adultry. He was not perfect. He was, it seems, pretty honest about his feelings. God loves that.
I love you Dave. I bet you're a really great guy. I bet you follow true religion. You probably help old women across the street. Maybe you're even lighting a widow's pilot light for the winter. God's not giving up on you. He's woeing you to him with his loving kindness. You remember him. I know you do.
This article has nothing to do with David. No one knows who wrote any of the Psalms. They are all anonymously authored. However, to dogmatically assert that these man-written poems and prose are God's Holy Word is a bit of a stretch. Especially when the "truths" being promoted are hatred.
As far as the rest of your psychedelic post, I urge you to consider why you believe that there is an invisible man living in your cardiovascular organ. I mean, what evidence do you have beyond an active imagination and a ridiculous book of fables that any invisible, immaterial entities are out mucking about in the ecto-sphere, concerned about the thoughts banging around in the heads of human beings?
Marc, or HS, or whoever: What difference would it make to an omnipotent being whether I believed in IT or not? How could it possibly make a difference? Yet, that is what Christianity is all about. You must have the correct thoughts in your mind about Jesus, the resurrection, the atonement, repentance, etc., etc., etc., or you get horrifically tortured forever in a sadistic torture chamber designed by a loving god.
But, this is off topic. What we are talking about is how Christians arbitrarily ignore certain parts of the Bible, because those parts are horrible, or cruel, or just plain archaically weird. They cherry-pick which to believe and follow and which to just pretend don't exist.
Please get back on topic. And, please avoid using the psychedelic love rhetoric. That might have had some appeal in the 60s, but it's soured considerably since then. In other words, yuck.
"What we are talking about is how Christians arbitrarily ignore certain parts of the Bible,"
Just like 'His Child' Ignored the whole post and cherry picked things out of nowhere.
#anony 423423423423420984
(I still think being woed to god is funny.)
"For a God that "doesn't exist" you people sure spend a lot of time talking about him."
Hi, David!
For trivia points, tell me how many times in the last year a christian has posted this comment on one of our threads. (Hint: It's a much bigger number than you'd imagine, and I seriously doubt you have the patience to find out for certain. Also, it proves nothing other than you haven't read anything about the site).
If you can't find the number, it might suffice for us to say that a parrot has nothing on christian apologists in terms of repeating, ad infinitum, the same mindless sounds it has heard from others.
I like to be fair, though, so I'll give you another chance. This one is much easier. If you REALLY want to impress me (and for BONUS points), explain to me (from OUR point of view, please) why you think a comment like yours might upset the regular members of this site. Please cite any relevant sources from this site (or others) that lead you to your conclusion.
SINCERELY,
Monk
And why do I think you guys get upset when people ask this question.....I don't know. I can make assumptions but can't "prove" anything. I know how you guys like proof. I would say that perhaps you guys just like getting upset. Reading your posts in particular it seems apparent that you are addicted to conflict.
I read the site disclaimer and have to say I don't see a whole lot of "supporting those who have chosen to leave Christianity behind". Sounds like the cherry-picking mentioned earlier.
fjell
david:0 points (actually we should probably give you a five point penalty for contradicting yourself)
Why do you find this site so interesting in the first place?
I find it flattering that so many christians like yourself invest so much time on this site.
The stuff we post on here about "Your God" must really upset people like you, because you find the need to post on here with your replies also.
If you and other christians were as confident in your faith, that most of you claim to be, you would find no need to even post on here period. You wouldn't even be on this site in the first place.
Plus the fact that christians like yourself come on here, and take the time to read our posts just proves even more that you are actually having doubts about what you really believe.
As for this next person:
ANONYMOUS SAID:
"And since I am new to the site I must pose a question, if you do not believe in Christianity then why do you spend so much of your time fighting it? According to you "x-tains" are all idiots chasing after a whim. Why do you feel so compelled to fight them"
People like myself feel compelled to fight christians because we are sick and tired of christians who use "Biblical Manipulation" tactics to try and run other people's lives.
People like myself are tired of seeing others oppressed and talked down to by "holier than thou" christian biggots because they refuse to conform to the "Christian Faith" and it's beliefs.
I consider myself to be a "Freedom Fighter" against all christian biggots.
People should be allowed to live their lives any way they see fit, as long as it does not harm anyone else, but instead the religious right wants to force it's beliefs on the whole country.
This country is for all people. Not just the religious right.
That's why people like myself feel compelled to fight christians. We feel the need to protect others who do not conform to the christian faith.
Poltergoost
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- For a "God" that "does exist"... "you people" sure do spend an exorbitant amount of time worrying if people doubt it's existence.(And if you're genuinely concerned about our "souls", you have a funny way of showing it)
- For a "God" that "does exist"....boy, She sure can't seem to get Her message communicated effectively, if we take into account the thousands of different religions---not-to-mention, the 33,000 some-odd denominations/sects/split-offs of Christianity, alone.
- For a "God" that "does exist", you'd think the believer would've produced some objective evidence by now, instead of the unceasing clap-trap that we're accustomed to seeing here every day.
PS: When addressing us "you people", please know that this site is not made up exclusively of Atheists; some people believe in "God", just not your biblegod.
In case you missed the point way up at the top of the page, it is that your Bible is appears to be the recipe for a mishmash of convoluted contradiction. And you Christians defend it by cherry-picking out only the tasty little morsels while ignoring the ingredients you don't like.
to extract tidbits of wisdom.
David said...
"How many points did I get?"
Well, you actually came back, so I'll give you 5 for coming back, but after I deduct stronger now's 5 for contradicting yourself and another 5 for not even attempting to give serious thought to answering what I asked you or what the topic proposes, your total comes to negative five (-5). Better luck next time. Now, on to the serious stuff.
David said...
"Christians have probably made that point about as many times as ex-christian posters pucker up and kiss wm's ass and tells him how great he is everytime he posts a comment."
What? Jealous that OUR deity is actually a real being and actually answers us when we ask him questions? (I'm kidding...no wm cults here, David). Actually, I'd rather kiss wm's ass any day before any of the charlatans, child molesters, and televangelist buffoons that pass for clergy these days (and who are, coincidently, practically WORSHIPPED by many christian sheeple).
"And why do I think you guys get upset when people ask this question.....I don't know. I can make assumptions but can't "prove" anything. I know how you guys like proof. I would say that perhaps you guys just like getting upset."
Now, David, don't be so petulant. I asked for your opinion this time...I plainly said to tell me what you THINK. Apparently, the firing of your synapses led to diarrhea of the brain...that's all I saw in your response anyway. Christians invariably get upset here first.
"Reading your posts in particular it seems apparent that you are addicted to conflict."
This was the most insightful thing you said, except for one minor detail. It's not so much that I'm addicted to conflict...I'm just not afraid of it. The last time I checked, life IS conflict. Deal with it, or go sit in the corner while the adults work things out for you. As shocking as it may seem to you, authority doesn't always have the correct answers. Nothing worthwhile gets done without conflict. I'm sure you were trying to insult me, but I'm afraid you'll have to do better than that. I actually see it more as a compliment.
"I read the site disclaimer and have to say I don't see a whole lot of "supporting those who have chosen to leave Christianity behind". Sounds like the cherry-picking mentioned earlier."
Once again, you're proving that you really haven't read many posts or that if you have, YOU have been cherry-picking. People encourage others here all the time. Unfortunately, a great deal of time IS spent dealing with sticks in the mud like yourself, because some of us (like me...the ones who LIVE for conflict...) just can't ignore the apologetic drivel of people like you. You all don't even provide us with any new material to attack either! It's always the same old ridiculous apologetics. I've been on this site for about 5 or 6 months now, and in only that small amount of time, I've seen your original accusation/question more times than I've been able to keep count. Where's the new material? The reasoned arguments/debate?
The crap you spouted is not the only thing repeated, either...
...over and over...
...time and again.
You just don't understand. You'll probably never understand. I'm sure deep down you are a decent individual. Deep down, most of us "evil" exchristians are decent people, too. Wake up, dude. Think outside your box. We don't have all the answers. You don't have all the answers. You're bible CERTAINLY doesn't have all the answers.
There's always more. Have a look, if you dare. Try the conflict out for yourself.
Even with an option to buy? :)
People do cherry-pick the bible. The protestant bible has fewer book than the catholic bible and both have numerous discrepancies and unexplainable contradictions. We all know this. I don't think the bible is without error.
Off topic:
I have read the posts and I don't see a lot of encouraging. I see alot of bashing and character assasination. And I see a lot of you x-ers making the same arguments as well. I really like how everyone needs to make an issue over selecting the anonymous button when they should select the "other" button. If it is so annoying have the wm remove the anonymous option.
I also hear the same tired argument about christians believing in bigfoot and the spagetti monster. Be careful with that point, it;s an antique.
I personally have not seen anything new from either side in two years. So what is the point in bringing it up?
There are also several spelling and gramatical errors in this post. Feel free to point those out in the usual played-out way
The comment posting software belongs to Blogger/Google. I cannot take away the anonymous option, but I can ask people to post using a pseudonym. Get it?
The blog is the front page to the site. Christians flock to it like hungry dogs, but the more asinine the Christian response (like yours) the greater the encouragement to those who have left that their decision to leave the ridiculous cult is the correct one. Thanks for the encouragement.
As long as Christians keep parroting the same old tired rhetoric that they've been brainwashed into repeating, you'll be reading the same arguments over and over. If you don't approve of the conversations, then go away. No one is forcing you to hang around. No one even invited you. And your generalized, non-specific critiques are unprofitable. If you have a criticism of grammar or spelling, be specific. That way you'll actually be helping in a positive way.
Try having a conversation with multiple people, each calling themselves "anonymous". It's annoying. In any case, it instantly becomes a non-issue as soon as the poster selects a pseudonym. Is there anything more to say on that topic?
David said "I also hear the same tired argument about christians believing in bigfoot and the spagetti monster. Be careful with that point, it[']s an antique."
So is modus ponens. Does antiquity correlate with fallaciousness, in your opinion? By the way, nobody claims that it is Christians who believe in Big Foot or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, only that such beliefs are similarly unfounded (as belief in Yahweh).
David said "I personally have not seen anything new from either side in two years. So what is the point in bringing it up?"
Occasionally, new bits of information surface in discussions concerning evolution, the historicity of Jesus, etc. But to me what is most interesting is experimenting with new ways to communicate with believers. I try new approaches all the time. Here: I'll try a new one with you. What would you like to hear from the regulars at this site? What could you reasonably expect to happen when Christians (such as yourself) visit here?
"There are also several spelling and gramatical errors in this post. Feel free to point those out in the usual played-out way"
So what if there are David? This is not a freaking english class. Ever heard of a typo error? Of course, someone as self-righteous and arrogant as you are would never make a typo now would they?
I really don't give a damn, if my spelling and grammar has errors in it. However, now that I know that it bothers you so bad, I will make every attempt to make as many errors and use bad grammar that I can just to annoy the hell out of people like you.
However, most of us can say that in spite of some typos and incorrect grammar, we can still understand what the poster is talking about. Apparently you're too stupid to do so yourself.
Nobody in this country speaks "Perfect English", nor am I going to make an attempt to speak perfect english just to please some asshole like yourself. So Fuck off you piece of worthless shit!
In Ephesians the Bible talks about the fact that our enemies are not with flesh and bone. Neither are God's. He's pretty clear that we show people love. It is the sin that attacks us that is the enemy.
Anywho...I like that God hates sin. Sin is behind everything that is not love. Yeah, the psalm talks about hating people. A lot of the old testiment is so that we see who God is.
God doesn't hate people. His word says that He sent his only begotten son so that none should perish but that all would have everlasting life. John 3:16
As a christian I do not pray that mean people are cursed. I do pray that mean people are seperated from their sins so that they can be loving. I know it is God's heart to bring sin entities to justice. I pray for that day.
I like that you guys are real. I laughed for a full minute over the woes thing. My spelling sucks and there isn't a spell check. I'm not going to waste my time cutting and pasting documents to spell correctly.
Feel free to poke fun. I have a sence of humor. My motives to bug you guys are coming from a love for God. He loves you. You don't make me mad. You guys complain that people don't know their Bible and if they do they don't care to talk to you.
I get to know my Bible better everyday. I care enough to talk to you. This is the only way I have to meet lost people. I'm really excited.
God Bless You.
Oh yeah the table in the presence of the enimies. That's cool. It's like when the devil is beating you down trying to make you all sad and broke and angry and opress you and then whoosh! God sends a check in the mail that you weren't expecting. He gives you a new song in your heart. You read the part in the Bible that says you were fearfully and wonderfully made and he has good plans for you.
I love the Bible. It's full of real acconts of real people and how they screwed everything up and God blessed them anyway... It also has heros who did good. It's one of the most amazing reads around. It's alive and full of promise.
Perhaps you missed the part of the Psalm 5 that says "Thou hatest all workers of iniquity."
The "thou" is supposedly God.
Therefore, God HATES PEOPLE!
Here's a nice short Bible study on the hatred of God, posted to the Internet by Christians: CLICK HERE.
I don't expect you to agree with these other Christians who absolutely say that God does hate people, Marc, but your posting in contrast with their article basically supports the point of this article. So, for that, thanks.
May reason eventually penetrate your superstitious brain.
"My motives to bug you guys are coming from a love for God. He loves you."
How do you know that "He" is not a "She"?
Can you not come up with something a little more creative, besides that same old 2,000 year old worn out statement, which has no practical meaning?
You would think that after 2,000 years, superstitious beliefs would no longer exist.
Yeah, God loves a friend of mine who I use to go to church with so much that he was not willing to restore his marriage even after this person prayed with a sincere heart. Plus God claims he hates divorce, however he was not willing to restore this man's marriage. Yeah, God love us alright. *rolls eyes* BTW, that person is also out of church now, and has nearly destroyed his life with drugs all because your so called, "Loving God who does what is best for us" refused to restore this guy's marriage. He's just about dead now. Your God sucks ass buddy.
I hope one day God puts you down in the pit, and you lose everything. It would be interesting to see how much you praise god then. You are a hypocrite.
HIS CHILD SAID:
"I get to know my Bible better everyday."
I didn't know you could get to know a book on a personal level. Geez...You give a new meaning to an, "Extremist Whacko Fundy".
I've been getting to know my book, "God Is Not Great" a lot better here lately also.
Sounds like you have way too much time on your hands. Hopefully by getting to know your bible better you'll discover just what a stupid retarded book it is. However, I don't know about that. You seem pretty stupid and retarded yourself.
HIS CHILD SAID:
"I care enough to talk to you. This is the only way I have to meet lost people. I'm really excited."
First of all, you are only talking to us online. You have never met any of us. If talking to people online excites you, then you must live a really boring life. You must not get out all that much.
HIS CHILD SAID:
"Oh yeah the table in the presence of the enimies. That's cool. It's like when the devil is beating you down trying to make you all sad and broke and angry and opress you and then whoosh! God sends a check in the mail that you weren't expecting."
Nice knowing you, "Robert Tilton".
Yawns....(grows tired of the same old worn out Bullshit that christians like to use)I've heard that "Check In The Mail When You Were Not Expecting It" story a hundred times, however I've never known anyone who got one. I sure as hell never did back when I was serving god faithfully. More typical christian propaganda, and lies. Funny, I had no idea that God believes in the "Welfare System". Does he give out food stamps also? Doesn't it say in the bible that "Those who don't work, do not eat"? Sounds like God has once again contradicted himself.
Care to tell us who that check came from? Was it from "The Heavenly Bank of God"?
I can't believe that people like you think people like myself are stupid enough to believe that "Check In The Mail" bullshit.
HIS CHILD SAID:
"He gives you a new song in your heart."
Yeah, I thank God for artists/bands like AC/DC, Ozzy Osbourne, Metallica, Judas Priest, and Led Zepplin. I've heard that "Stairway To Heaven" is God's favorite song.
"You read the part in the Bible that says you were fearfully and wonderfully made and he has good plans for you."
Ok, so people who are born intersexed, are wonderfully made, however if they live the life of someone who is transgendered, then it is a sin, however they were born with both sexes, but they were wonderfully made? How about children who were born out of incest rape? Were they wonderfully made also?
Funny, Incest is a sin, and God allows it to happen, and those children who are products of incest are wonderfully made, even though it goes against God's will. Talking about "Double Minded".
Please explain how intersexed people are wonderfully made. Is it God's will that some people are born with both a penis and a vagina? Please explain.
HIS CHILD SAID:
"I love the Bible. It's full of real acconts of real people and how they screwed everything up and God blessed them anyway... It also has heros who did good.
Yeah, they killed thousands of innocent people who would not submit to God's ego and will.
HIS CHILD SAID:
"It's one of the most amazing reads around. It's alive and full of promise".
Yeah, just like you're full of shit.
Ok, once again show me proof that the bible is real. Your attempt to win people over on here is futile, and once again you have failed. You give no credibility to your god. You only prove to us how stupid he is and how stupid you are. You do nothing but waste your time.
It must not take much to entertain you. If reading the bible excites you, then you must not impress very easily.
You are a pitiful individual. You are probably the biggest dumb ass who has ever posted on here. Of course God is a dumb ass, so I guess you can't really help your own ignorance and stupidity.
Don't worry my fundy friend, I was just like you at one time. Back when I didn't know any better.
Now back to one of your previous comments:
HIS CHILD SAID:
"Feel free to poke fun. I have a sence of humor."
Ok, you'll get a laugh out of this next one.
Did you know that Jesus and his 12 disciples all had orgies? Jesus was a known homosexual, who hung around with mostly men. You see, Judas pimped Jesus out to the Roman Soldiers who were looking for a good gang bang, and the 30 pieces of silver were the prostitution fee.
Plus Jesus and his mother Mary had sex also. That's why god believes that "Incest Is Best" and how we are all wonderfully made. :)
Plus God ejaculated, his holy sperm cells into poor Mary, which was his way of "cuming" in the flesh. However Jesus was God, and in some sort of way, I guess Jesus was a product of incest.
In closing, I'm glad to hear that you (His Child) enjoys giving Jesus head. I'm sure he enjoys getting you up the butt also. I'm sure Jesus raped your mother, and that is how you got here. Your mom and dad are probably brother and sister to begin with.
Hope you enjoyed my humor. Glad I could entertain you. :)
Bullshit. Your pretend god is a poster child for hate. From the global flood to the genocide of the Amakalites to Revelations, the Bible is polluted with god-initiated bloodshed.
"As a christian I do not pray that mean people are cursed. I do pray that mean people are seperated from their sins so that they can be loving."
So you pray for some invisible being to muck about in the minds of people you declare to be "mean"? So much for that 'free will' shit.
"I know it is God's heart to bring sin entities to justice. I pray for that day."
That day will probably (.999...) never come, because from all indications to date your god is a figment of the human imagination. You do not 'know' any such thing about the alleged 'heart' of your alleged invisible friend. You have merely convinced yourself that you know such a thing.
The only way you can dispel My doubts, His Child, is to bring forth your god in physical form so that it, itself, can verify your statement in person. In such a grave matter as this I refuse to accept second-hand subjective anecdotal evidence, whether it comes from the mouth of a believer or from a book.
"My motives to bug you guys are coming from a love for God."
And blatant disregard for our feelings. Go love your god someplace else.
Just like all other fundies, he has no "Real Answer".
I rest my case.
Poltergoost
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