These articles were published between January 2001 and February 4, 2010.
To view more recent posts, go to The Main Blog at ExChristian.Net
These articles were published between January 2001 and February 4, 2010.
To view more recent posts, go to The Main Blog at ExChristian.Net
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Thomas Paine once wrote about gospel contradictions, "I lay it down as a position which cannot be controverted, first, that the agreement of all the parts of a story does not prove that story to be true, because the parts may agree and the whole may be false; secondly, that the disagreement of the parts of a story proves the whole cannot be true."
Those taking extended theology courses are always shown the ways the internal parts of their complex story agree, they are never really exposed to those parts that disagree.
- except in the form of Apologetics, which you will find is usually just continuing excuses not to reject the thing they've invested their life in, not proof that it is actually truth.
Are those men who have devoted their lives to studying and teaching the Koran fools?
Having an advanced education in mythology -- err, theology -- doesn't necessarily enhance a person's ability to think logically or critically.
Anonymous asked "...how do you explain the thousands of priests who studied theology for 8 to 12 years and still deeply believe in the whole jesus story? Are all these men fools?"
This question is founded on a false dichotomy. Holding a "foolish" (or irrational) belief does not make one a fool. We humans have an astonishing capacity to compartmentalize beliefs--turning off critical thinking in some domains while deploying it in full force in others. So, I would not call the studied theologians fools. Some have clearly been brilliant and articulate. I've yet to see how those attributes offer complete insurance against being wrong, however. Even spectacularly wrong. On that I think we can all agree. We need only point to the scholars of those "other" religions.
P.D.: Notice I did not say Christianity is "good">
Please read the site disclaimer. Then, if you are going to continue posting here, please click the "other" radio button and type in a pseudonym.
Thanks.
"Maybe those stories may have been added by the early writers of the gospels to make him attractive. But obviously he existed. And Pliny and Josephus mentioned him as a certain reality."
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Anon,
You seriously need to read this ENTIRE link, in a HUGE HUGE way!!!
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
Here's a sample to wet your whistle
From this page......http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/surfeit.htm
Was there a Jesus? Of course there was a Jesus – many!
The archetypal Jewish hero was Joshua (the successor of Moses) otherwise known as Yeshua ben Nun (‘Jesus of the fish’). Since the name Jesus (Yeshua or Yeshu in Hebrew, Ioshu in Greek, source of the English spelling) originally was a title (meaning ‘saviour’, derived from ‘Yahweh Saves’) probably every band in the Jewish resistance had its own hero figure sporting this moniker, among others.
Josephus, the first century Jewish historian mentions no fewer than nineteen different Yeshuas/Jesii, about half of them contemporaries of the supposed Christ! In his Antiquities, of the twenty-eight high priests who held office from the reign of Herod the Great to the fall of the Temple, no fewer than four bore the name Jesus: Jesus ben Phiabi, Jesus ben Sec, Jesus ben Damneus and Jesus ben Gamaliel. Even Saint Paul makes reference to a rival magician, preaching ‘another Jesus’ (2 Corinthians 11,4). The surfeit of early Jesuses includes:
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There are also other sites as well that will show you why Josephus and Pliny's words can't add credence to the life of your special Jesus to.
You are being brainwashed by xtian apologist, who are trying to make a case for their god on earth, but the truth is that not only is the existing proof for your jesus, DISMAL at best, but common sense tells most of us that a figurehead soooooo popular in history would have had LOTS written about him by many historians, but did NOT.....Ask yourself WHY that is Anon!!
After you read thru the site I showed you here, come back and we can talk further.
ATF (who see's a clear cut case here of a xtian being led astray by the apologist version of human history)
"I am much older. Stories that "Jesus never existed" I heard them when before you were born. Way back to 1964!"
--
Anonymous (one of the many posting here),
Before WHO was born???
To whom do you refer to here?
Hearing "stories" is not quite the same thing as having a plausible case, with backing evidence.
(Not to mention the total lack of expected evidence we SHOULD see from history, if jesus was all the wonderful things the bible claims him to be)
If we had only mere STORIES or rumors that jesus never existed, you would have a case for us not buying into those stories so easily. This is clearly not the case at all however !!
>By the way, do you know who else said Jesus "never existed"? Josef Goebbels, Hitler's propaganda minister. He said it in one of his diaries, "The Goebbel's Diaries" first published in 1949
Frankly, whether this is a fact or not, does not bolster the Jesus issue, one way or the other.
What does it mean that this propaganda minister didn't believe Jesus existed?
Surely he wouldn't have used his personal viewpoint about Jesus as an item of his propaganda, as Hitler himself was quite the believer in Jesus.
(Don't even try and tell us that Hitler wasn't a Catholic believer either. We've heard that xtian apologetic way TOO many times already)
I'm not sure if you're the same Anon who speaks about Moses, as you anon's can't figure out how to pick a name for yourselves for some strange reason.
Anyway, the 'STORY' of Moses escaping Egypt with his Jews has ZERO supporting historical evidence outside the bible stories, and I even dare to question his very existence as well.... at least for the existence of the god's chosen prophet that the bible portrays him to be.
See this site for more info on Moses and the Exodus....
http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/moses.html
Now you may continue to believe that the only evidence historians have against Jesus and Moses are mere rumors and 'stories', or you can actually weigh what the MANY who have studied ancient history have to say on these matters.
However, you might trying leaving the god-filter OFF while reading this material.
Such a filter has a strange way of making xtians miss the obvious facts.
ATF (who also wants to know the miracle secret of how the 'people' of Moses multiplied so quickly in those ancient days)
Hmmm, it seems like you're awfully angry for someone who doesn't give a damn. 'Seems you're doing a lot of generalizing, too. First off, this site is for EX-christians. And in case you haven't noticed, not every "ex-christian" is an Atheist. In regards to a generic/Universal "God", there are Agnostics, as well as several Deists here, so you're not the only "Deist".
Secondly, not ALL Atheists hate ALL religions, as you seem to want to believe. Some religions are actually peaceful, at least in comparison to the three major monotheistic religions..i.e..Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. True, many non-Theists see those three religions as abhorant, and rightfully so, as their respective "Holy books" condone and promote abhorant and barbaric behavior(s). The killing of all those who oppose their respect doctrines, comes immediately to mind.
Also true, there are good and bad people of all religious and non-religious affiliation. This "proves" nothing, except that people are people, and that religious belief doesn't automatically make one any better-off than anyone else; no one is being guided by any magical beings. Case closed.
Anything else?
Either click the "OTHER" radio button and type in a pseudondym when you post or EVERYTHING you post will be deleted.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!
If this doofus ignores me this time, everyone can be assured that this is another (or one of the usual) fundie fanatics. If he refuses to honor this one request, all of his posts will be deleted. So, keep that in mind if you intend to engage this person.
Excuse me, but what segment of our culture uses the word "hater" in conversation? Hmm?
Please: Christians who are disingenuous are particularly infuriating.
Haters?
How uneducated and ignorant is that?
*cough* Paul of Tarsis and Emperor Constantine *cough*
Judging from the historical record of the religion's propagation over the first few centuries of the common era, Christianity never needed an actual Jesus.
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