So, what do you worship?
By Chucky Jesus
I'm both an ex-Christian and an atheist. I almost don't think of myself as ex-anything any more, because my deconversion was so long ago; I'm 53 now and I gave up on Christianity by the time I was 18. Since then there's been one thing about Christianity in the back of my mind -- this notion of "worship." I suppose if I thought about it at all, it was in reaction to a question which is often posed to freethinkers by theists, "So, what do you worship?"
My reaction has been, well we don't worship anybody, silly -- and why do you feel the need to worship someone? Are you all syncophants? Then again, perhaps many freethinkers do worship, in a sense. I think I've decided that I worship life -- all aspects of life, which, in a way includes the entire universe, as it's all tied together. After all, the stuff we're made from and the most distant galaxies were all part of the same "cosmic" egg "before" the big-bang. This matter and energy which makes up us and our cousins the plants and insects and our earth all obey the same natural laws as do these far away galaxies and everything between.
I'm reminded of a poem by Walt Whitman, "On the Beach At Night, Alone." This was used to great effect in the second movement of the first symphony by the English composer Ralph (pronounced Raeph) Vaughan-Williams. My sister, an actress, also read it at my wedding.
It also occurs to me that we could just as easily replace the word "worship" with "celebrate." I celebrate beautiful sunrises, the taste of chocolate, a tone-poem by Liszt, a movie by Mike Judge which makes me laugh, the canopy of stars at night, a beautiful woman, learning each day about new discoveries of science, and on and on. All of this is life and I love it, I celebrate it...I worship it.
So, the next time a Christian asks what you worship, give that person your list.
I'm both an ex-Christian and an atheist. I almost don't think of myself as ex-anything any more, because my deconversion was so long ago; I'm 53 now and I gave up on Christianity by the time I was 18. Since then there's been one thing about Christianity in the back of my mind -- this notion of "worship." I suppose if I thought about it at all, it was in reaction to a question which is often posed to freethinkers by theists, "So, what do you worship?"
My reaction has been, well we don't worship anybody, silly -- and why do you feel the need to worship someone? Are you all syncophants? Then again, perhaps many freethinkers do worship, in a sense. I think I've decided that I worship life -- all aspects of life, which, in a way includes the entire universe, as it's all tied together. After all, the stuff we're made from and the most distant galaxies were all part of the same "cosmic" egg "before" the big-bang. This matter and energy which makes up us and our cousins the plants and insects and our earth all obey the same natural laws as do these far away galaxies and everything between.
I'm reminded of a poem by Walt Whitman, "On the Beach At Night, Alone." This was used to great effect in the second movement of the first symphony by the English composer Ralph (pronounced Raeph) Vaughan-Williams. My sister, an actress, also read it at my wedding.
On the beach at night alone,
As the old mother sways her to and fro singing her husky song,
As I watch the bright stars shining, I think a thought of the clef
of the universes and of the future.
A vast similitude interlocks all,
All spheres, grown, ungrown, small, large, suns, moons, planets,
All distances of place however wide,
All distances of time, all inanimate forms,
All souls, all living bodies though they be ever so different, or in
different worlds,
All gaseous, watery, vegetable, mineral processes, the fishes, the brutes,
All nations, colors, barbarisms, civilizations, languages,
All identities that have existed or may exist on this globe, or any globe,
All lives and deaths, all of the past, present, future,
This vast similitude spans them, and always has spann'd,
And shall forever span them and compactly hold and enclose them.
It also occurs to me that we could just as easily replace the word "worship" with "celebrate." I celebrate beautiful sunrises, the taste of chocolate, a tone-poem by Liszt, a movie by Mike Judge which makes me laugh, the canopy of stars at night, a beautiful woman, learning each day about new discoveries of science, and on and on. All of this is life and I love it, I celebrate it...I worship it.
So, the next time a Christian asks what you worship, give that person your list.
Comments
THere is nothing to worship and the sooner the poison of religion is wiped off the face of this World the better.
I read your nice post and thought, I like that. He makes a lot of sense. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the world we live in and its creatures.
Then I read the response some anonymous gave you and thought, that's exactly why I do not call myself an atheist and never will. Because I refuse to be so "fundamentalist" as to bitterly reject all sentiment, beauty, and joy of life.
I want to remain free to enjoy beauty, even if it is a statue in a Roman Catholic church. Or a majestic musical composition, even if it's called the Ave Maria. Or a masterful poem, even if metaphoric ally places angels among us.
I will never give up my right to feel, even if I don't believe in God. Therefore, I will never call myself an atheist--unless, of course, I want to sound retarded and uncultured like the poster who preceded me.
If I wanted to be that close minded, I would have remained a Christian.
I enjoyed your post and wanted to let you know that.
I really don't understand what it is about the word "atheist" that gets some people in such a tizzy. I don't consider myself closeminded just because I don't see any reason to believe in a god. I still enjoy beautiful sunsets, the beautiful night sky, beautiful, man-made objects of many types, and many other things too numerous to mention. I just have never seen anything that I consider worthy of worship.
Also, I can understand reaction to the word worship. Like I originally wrote, replace it with the word celebrate if you like.
And in my case, it ain't that far from the truth.
Revering and placing somthing above ourselves does not equal worship. When a firefighter places the safety of someone else's life aove his or her own, is he worshipping that person? Of course not. When a moviegoer reveres a certain movie, are they worshipping that movie? Of course not. Those two things are part of BEING HUMAN, not worship.
We do worship things other than Gods. To worship is being human. And I do understand your points that you made but I feel that we as a people, Christian or not, need to feel that we are not at the top of the universe, that there is something greater than ourselves, even if it is another person or group of people. And even if we are not aware of it, I believe we need to worship something, anything. It is different for each person.
P.S. Dear Webmaster, in choosing an ID to post, there was, last time I posted, the option of "Nickname" (or someting), other than "Anonymous" - Which was great 'cos I knew what that was. Whereas, Google/Blogger, OpenID and Name/URL... well I know they'er not latin... but? Forgive my ignorance :-\
Boe
Sophia
I want to remain free to enjoy beauty, even if it is commissioned to exalt the Third Reich. Or a majestic musical composition, even if it's composed within the Reichsmusikkammer. Or a masterful poem, even if metaphoric ally places Gott mit uns. In The 1930’s the Nazis sponsored the most amazing innovations in engineering and science. What’s not to admire?
I will never give up my right to feel, even if I don't believe in the Aryan Master Race. Therefore, I will never call myself non fascist, unless, of course, I want to sound retarded and uncultured like the poster who preceded me.
Grrrrrrr.
Look, few destructive toxic systems are unable to claim some merit. Any Reverend Jimmy, Jim Jones Jim Baker Jim Swaggart ( Is there a Pope Jimmy?) can be said to have inspired and moved many people deeply. Even the most repressive Islamic nations will have amazing architecture or art. Listen to music overlay on various terrorist clips praising Allah. The vocals are honestly beautiful.
But only the biggest F’tard would call the victims of any deceitful organization , (the Catholic Church is historically the grandmaster of deceit), retarded and uncultured for protesting the abuse and deprivation they went through,
Calling the victim of a rapist retarded and uncultured for failing to be inspired by the good things the rapist did is a perversion on a level I had never imagined I would ever see.
In my mind, there is no greator sense of peace and calm to come over me as I look at a beautiful female.
I know this may sound perverted, but I can't help myself, I do not think I am alone with this situation.
To worship requires ritualistic habits.
I do not engage in ritualistic behaviors for things I value.
A person proportionally devaluates their self value, as they rationalize something to be of greater value.
I can’t think of a good reason to engage in self devaluation or self loathing. Wagerer, do you have a good reason to convince your self that you are less valuable than something else?
In the process of self devaluation; one discredits their self as competent to make value judgments.
:-) But, I do have a lot of things in my life, that I value, and I have no problem telling people that I value a hot-dog more than the word God.
I suspect the majority of U.S. citizens to contextually conclude that one who worships to be an obsequious acolyte to that which they worship.
I attempt concise communication to convey specific ideas, so that I can receive contextually appropriate replies.
Vague words enable contextual confusion & miscommunication.
A comedy triumph that illustrates this concept is; "Who's on First?" by Abbott and Costello.
Vague and arbitrary words like; God, god, spirit, angel, demon, etc., are easily confused when a person uses them in metaphor, while another interprets them literally.
Using the word worship to metaphorically mean celebrate, is okay with me, as long as those who I talk with understand the metaphor :-) Again, I would not make such a presumption when talking to people I don't know in society.
Chucky, thanks for the article, it has inspired thought, and I do celebrate or metaphorically worship life – Have a great one
Great topic Chucky. I might add that it took me a good many weeks of reading your nickname on these pages before I could do it without laughing my ass off. Very funny.
Along the lines of Clark Kent I will freely admit I worship the area where my wife's thighs come together. That particular area of my wife's anatomy control more of my actions that an imaginary God ever could.
Seriously I worship nothing, but exercise is my religion. I have been working out five days a week for over twenty years.
The OLDER version of the word? LORDS and MONARCHS?
Now you're reaching.
And the fact that you're reaching - trying desperately to fit any kind of activity that you can into the area of 'worship' - shows me how faulty the idea that everyone worships really is. Not everyone worships. I don't; several posters here have said that they don't. That's proof enough. Christians love to come on this site and try to convince themselves that we HAVE to believe in God, no matter how persistent our atheism, and now I see one trying to convince me that I HAVE TO worship something, no matter how persistent my NON-worship.
The claim that everyone worships something is nothing more than an excuse for the religious to justify their superstitious behavior. If it were true, Christians would not have that aspect of scrutiny to crumble under. But they do, because not everyone worships something - no matter how much word-wrestling you want to engage in to fit any and all activities under that word to justify your or other people's behavior.
I simply don't love anything unconditionally; and nothing sure as hell loves ME unconditionally. I simply don't have that kind of faith in anything, to hold it above all scrutiny and examination and uconditionally REVERE it. THAT is worship. And I don't do it.
Since Christians believe that God is the source of all beauty, many make the illogical non-sequitur that those who don’t believe in God cannot appreciate beauty. This non sequitur is bandied about among Christians, and has thus become a stereotype. It doesn’t help that the stereotype is confirmed in Christians’ minds when they encounter angry atheists, and it doesn’t occur to the Christian that the atheist is angry because he’s being preached at, not because he’s an atheist. But this is a stereotype, not a definition.
Lorena wrote: “I will never give up my right to feel, even if I don't believe in God. Therefore, I will never call myself an atheist--unless, of course, I want to sound retarded and uncultured like the poster who preceded me.”
If you don’t believe in God, then you are an atheist, by definition—no matter what you feel. You don’t sound retarded and uncultured by calling yourself an atheist; you sound uncultured and retarded by saying stupid things. As you probably know, (through no fault of our own) atheists have an image problem. It doesn’t help when decent atheists shun the word because of a baseless stereotype.
They have been paraded in front of other believers and debased and subjugated and humiliated like a group of farm animals and held under undue duress to uphold and pledge an oral allegiance to a dead man that was a god that came to earth in the form of a man, whom anyone would should realize with their born-with common sense know it is all a total lie.
Now that they have made this public pledge and commitment, they have appearances to uphold, they must impress other christians and if they can lead another unsuspecting fool into their cult, then that's one less person that will think they are a total fool, because they are just that, a total fool.
Anyway, I too work very hard to stay fit. I was once told by a Christian friend that I needed to be careful because I could be in danger of worshipping my own body...I was a Christian then and her comment actually made me stop working out for a while...sad. I do feel good about how I look, but it comes from hard work, which makes me feel good too, but I don't worship my body...my husband does :-)
I do like the word celebrate more than worship, but in any case I would say I worship/celebrate every breath I take. I appreciate the life I have to live so much more than when I was a Christian.
"Along the lines of Clark Kent I will freely admit I worship the area where my wife's thighs come together. That particular area of my wife's anatomy control more of my actions that an imaginary God ever could"
Wait a minute Xrayman.....You don't need a wife........Jesus is all you need according to my former "Singles Minster" from my old Church Days...........LMAO!!!! (Just kidding Xrayman) :)
You know speaking of those days, I went to that same asshole "Singles Minister" who use to discourage dating in our Sunday School Class and who use to tell us that "Jesus was all we need" (This same minister just happened to be married btw) and I asked him what business was it of his to be telling all of us that.
I even went as far as asking my former "Singles Minister" what was he doing married, and I reminded him that "Jesus was all he needed, and that he did not need a wife".
He looked at me with a frown on his face and asked me, "So are you recommending that I get a divorce"?
Then he went on to say that if he ever lost his wife that he would probably never marry again anyway.
These preachers talk real big, and for a church that promoted "It's good to be single for Jesus" every single minister in my old church just happened to be married. It seems most of these pastors talk out of both sides of their mouths.
That's for damn sure!!!!
Of course the existence of God has been proven false. Any and every notion of something called God on this earth has been shown to be false. All one need do is open up ANY holy book to see the fallacies, contradictions, lies and outright exaggerations in them to see that the Gods in them are false. That leaves us with one other option: those Gods are lying. And why should we worship, let alone acknowledge, such a being?
The only other alternative is that there is a supreme being out there we don't know about. But such thoughts are useless speculation. I am an atheist because there is no evidence for gods; this does not mean that I don't want to believe in gods. There is simply no evidence. So why why should I spend my time worrying about whether or not there's a supreme being out there that I don't know about? There's no evidence for such a thing! When there is evidence, I will consider it. Until then I am happy to admit that I do not believe in gods because there is simply no evidence for gods. Gods don't have to be disproven; there is no evidence to prove them!
Atheism is not a religion. Many so-called 'middle-of-the-roaders' love to come to this site and preach their religioin through veiled liberalism. Calling atheism a religioin just shows how biased you really are, and how little you know of atheism. I've said it before, I'll say it again: atheism is not a religion. It is a lack of belief in a theistic system. NOTHING MORE.
Where people go after that is up to them. Communism, secular humanism . . . none of these things really has anything to do with atheism. Any extremism attributed to communism (fascism) or humanism (posthumanism) or even environmentalism (PETA, anyone?) can only be attributed to those beliefs, not to atheism. People are not communist because they are atheist, nor are people secular because they are atheist. Atheism is atheism, Stephen, and atheism cannot be extreme or close-minded. Atheism has no set of core values, no texts to misinterpret.
Christianity, on the other hand . . .
Those who say there is no god and believe in the scientific method need to realize that the existence of god has yet to be proven false as well
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Stephen,
Nice try, but, just how many gods would you suggest that science set out to try and disprove?
Should mainstream science also waste tremendous resources on disproving every supernatural belief that some person dreams up to?
Such niche passions would be for better suited for someone like James Randi, not the scientific world in general.
It's obvious that gods have been invented from human desires and their fear of the unknown, throughout history, and not from any empirical evidence that preceded those desired beliefs.
If evidence for any human suggested god being, requires science to go digging through mountains of hearsay evidence, wishful thinking and so forth, then obviously such a god being doesn't give a hoot about us.
So why would anyone choose to believe in such a 'hidden' god then, if there is no human benefit for doing so?
If there is a god somewhere that gives a damn about people, then 'it' should make itself very well known, with far more evidence than rumors and books penned by the hand-of-man.
So that said Stephen, tell me what advantage there is to believe in a god who can't be proven to exist?
If some god is real, and CARES, then I'm SURE we won't have to work very hard to prove that this god is of our reality, wouldn't you agree?
ATF (Who doesn't think middle-of-the-road stances, are always a good thing)
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