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4/20/2007                                                                                       View Comments

Vaginal fluids are sacred too

By Brian B

Something I've noticed a lot lately is the contradictory attitude towards "God's creation" in many Christians. All the time, I hear about how we are supposed to have reverence and awe for the beauty and majesty of His creation. What's funny though, is how very selective Christians are in what they'll have "reverence" and "awe" for, even though it's all supposed to be designed by God.

I live in the dorms at a Christian university, and being an atheist, needless to say I get myself into some pretty interesting conversations. I can remember one conversation I had with a few guys, where the subject matter turned to, oh, let's say matters of the flesh. Specifically, we were talking about the chemistry and inner workings of the female vagina.

Well, of course, one of the guys got offended and left. I asked him about it later, and he said it wasn't "edifying" to talk about such things. Although earlier, for some reason, he had no problem discussing his favorite Star Wars characters- and last time I checked, that's not "edifying" either, at least not by biblical standards.

If it made him uncomfortable or squeamish, then I could understand and sympathize. But he used the term "edifying" as though our conversation were wrong on some sort of spiritual level.

Listen up, Christians -- you don't get to decide what part of God's creation is beautiful and what isn't! The Bible says God made everything--everything!--and said it was GOOD. That means He would have carefully designed the labia, the vulva, and the clitoris, and everything else that's down there. He would have studied and pondered exactly what chemical components would go into female discharges, and how they would be released.

And then YOU (Christians) come along and have the nerve to say, "it's not proper" or "that kind of talk is filthy." Have you no reverence for your Designer and the hard work He put in His creation?

Here's what I think, and I mean this most sincerely. I think, if you believe in a god, and you claim to respect his creation, but call some natural aspect of it filthy, or dirty- this is tantamount to blasphemy. Yes, blasphemy. Why do you praise your God for sunsets, but not for excrement?

As an atheist, I can say, I think sunsets are prettier than poop. But you, the Christian, believe both are the handiwork of an intelligent designer, and ought to give both the same reverence, or else you are a hypocrite, and you don't really respect your God's design. Peace and Love,

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25 comments:

stronger now said...

The attitude of some christians that some things should never be spoken of has always been strange to me. It's like saying some things should never be known or investigated. How can a person gain understanding if they don't ask questions? In my upbringing I was aware that it was improper for me to ask what sex was, what evolution was, why poop smelled so bad, and why did I have boogers? To name a few. Yes, all childish questions, but honest ones nonetheless. I have met a woman who was taught to never try to learn anything much because it could jeapordize her "childlike faith".

I try to explain everything I can to my children, in terms that they understand, so they are not subjected to these dark age attitudes. Sex, death,smells,brain tumors, and rainbows... everything is fair game. And why shouldn't I tell my kids about them. If they are old enough to ask about them aren't they old enough to hear something about them?

Fretbuzz said...

Great post Brian, but I also wonder - why are you, an atheist - in a Christian school? Please do tell!

Yes - that most squeamish subject: sex. What do Christians mean by "living in sin"? How about "being immoral"? Is it due to tax evasion? Or perhaps one has stolen something? Or even murdered someone else?

No - it means sex. And although they hopelessly repress it, it keeps coming back to haunt them every time. Although, there's nothing more effective to make a rosebush grow than to prune it - so I suppose it really fosters the Christian libido ..

madbuni said...

Brian, great post, and great point! What is up with the christians and sex? Oh wait, they think about those things secretly and then molest young boys and girls.

When you mentioned excrement I immedietly thought about a utube video I saw called Stupid Design by Neil DeGrasse at Beyond Belief 2006.

He said that between our legs there is an entertainment complex right in the middle of a sewage system, and no engineer would design something like that! LOL

Bob Kowalski said...

Christians are firm in their conviction that life is sacred. Especially given their opposition to many forms of reproductive technologies, one would expect that some of that sacredness would rub off, as it were, on to the female body and reproductive organs.

A strong sense of sacredness is often made manifest by a reluctance to mention the sacred object. One need only read a tiny bit of anthropology or comparative religion. HOWEVER, the really paradoxical element is that objects of shame are also only reluctantly spoken of.

As shame becomes more profound, it becomes more difficult to distinguish the shame-object from the sacred-object. The major criterion for distinguishing the two becomes what is done when the rules are broken.

If you really want to play with a Christian's head, get him to attribute all the qualities of shame to the sacred, and then ask him to distinguish the two. Maybe start with the commandment about taking God's name in vain. And don't forget that God had to reveal Himself to humanity. Presumably He used to be hidden and not often spoke of as well.

ryan said...

stronger now:

I was sickened by your mention of the woman and her childlike faith. I was raised to not think and it took me years of my adult life to learn to do it.

I have just finished reading Terrorist by John Updike. It is about this very devout young muslim named ahmed--ahmed is so devout that you can't help but despise him. He is just too stupid for his own good. His innocence makes him a natural victim and a pawn of political forces beyond his comprehension. This book should be on every freethinker's reading list.

The point is, of course, that if one is not thinking, anything looks good: xristianity; islam; new age; communism; fascism; scientology; witchcraft, you name it.

I have been told by dozens of xristians that I am the one who is not thinking. We have all heard it, but that doesn't work. I have been to both places; I know the terror of those secret questions; of those honest doubts, and I know the sweet relief of reason. Religion means not thinking; atheism means thinking.

martin luther said somewhere that reason in the enemy of faith. Once we learn to reason, faith is swept away like a fart in a typhoon.

Glad to have made your acquaintance. I post here now and then. Hope to see you around.

Bryan B said...

Fretbuzz,

I'm at a Christian school because at the time of signing up, I was stil a Christian. I have only been an atheist since about mid-december. Needless to say, this is my last semester here!

Tim said...

Did you hear the one about the Polish guy who decided to start a religion based on the idea that God is so sacred and holy no one should speak about him, write about him or even think about him?


Tim

Lorena said...

What a great piece of writing, Brian B!

Anonymous said...

Reminds me of the Monty Python parody of "Altt Things Bright and Beautiful" called "All Things Dull and Ugly"

http://www.mwscomp.com/sounds/mp3/dullugly.mp3

Homepage where I found it: http://www.mwscomp.com/sound.html

Who can forget "Every Sperm is Sacred" as well-!

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/mol/every-sp.mp3


All Things Dull And Ugly lyrics

All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
The Lord God made the lot.

Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
He made their brutish venom,
He made their horrid wings.

All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The Lord God made them all.

Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid,
Who made the spikey urchin,
Who made the sharks, He did.

All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The Lord God made them all.

AMEN.


Every Sperm is Sacred Lyrics

DAD:
There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,

Because

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

GIRL:
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

MUM:
Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

MEN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.

WOMEN:
If a sperm is wasted,...

CHILDREN:
...God get quite irate.

PRIEST:
Every sperm is sacred.

BRIDE and GROOM:
Every sperm is good.

NANNIES:
Every sperm is needed...

CARDINALS:
...In your neighbourhood!

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is useful.
Every sperm is fine.

FUNERAL CORTEGE:
God needs everybody's.

MOURNER #1:
Mine!

MOURNER #2:
And mine!

CORPSE:
And mine!

NUN:
Let the Pagan spill theirs
O'er mountain, hill, and plain.

HOLY STATUES:
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

EVERYONE:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite iraaaaaate!

Anonymous said...

"Did you hear the one about the Polish guy who decided to start a religion based on the idea that God is so sacred and holy no one should speak about him, write about him or even think about him?


Tim"

Sign me up!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the Monty Python; I needed that!! LOL

Dave8 said...

Bryan B., great post. Went to a Christian school myself. I was a resident assistant in the dorms. My floor housed all the athletes, and so, I at least didn't have to deal with intellectual honesty, everyone said pretty much what was on their mind. And, anything dealing with sex, would have been a great conversation starter with the athletes :-)

The design of the school's academic structure was approved by the SBC. No one was required to take philosophy, and if they wanted to... they only offered an intro. course. Such a class, challenged beliefs, and beliefs were more important than the mental exercise that a rigorous education is supposed to provide.

Do you have to attend convocation? Just curious. It chaffed my atheist friends' hide, to have to sit and be lectured to. I did homework, and let my spiritual mind be guided by the blessed speaker's words :-)

Anyway, good to meet you, and hope to see you around. Take care

Steve said...

Modesty and decorum do not imply disrespect or disregard for any aspect of God's creation. It depends why you are discussing something, with whom and when. It could be scientific, informative or it could be prurient or vulgar. Vomit may be a product of creation but why would you want to dwell on it, unless for example you were a forensic scienist. What benefit would it be? Yet the ability to vomit is an essential mechanism for our well-being and survival. It is an aspect of the magnificence of creation.

Why also should you think that Christians are unthinking and by implication atheists are not? Discipleship requires active and regular study amongst other disciplines. That study requires thought, deep thought. Atheism, on the other hand, does not. It makes no demands whatsoever, intellectual or otherwise.

Dave8 said...

Steve: "Modesty and decorum do not imply disrespect or disregard for any aspect of God's creation...", "It is an aspect of the magnificence of creation."

So, modesty and decorum may prevent discussion of taboos, but nonetheless, taboos have a special place in the magnificence of creation...

What that tells me, is that one hasn't been free to explore all areas of their "belief", if they are locked behind the door(s) of modesty and decorum.

If doesn't how much one studies, if they aren't able to apply what they have been taught to "all" areas within their reality, and that includes the "taboo" areas as well.

Steve: "Why also should you think that Christians are unthinking and by implication atheists are not?"

Christians that have modesty or decorum issues, have issues that restrict their intellectual growth. If one is restricted in "content", they are reflexively restricted in thinking about that same "content".

Steve: "Discipleship requires active and regular study amongst other disciplines. That study requires thought, deep thought."

Do these disciples study materials that contradict their belief(s)? Do they "dwell" on the material, until there is a logical explanation for any disparity or incoherence that exists, between proven research and their belief(s)?

Steve: "Atheism, on the other hand, does not. It makes no demands whatsoever, intellectual or otherwise."

A person can become an atheist based on irrational or rational means. If a person studies the sciences, and finds that the mere use of the term "transcendence", is absurd, then they can rationally and via intellectual pursuit disagree with a Christian who qualifies their "God", by such a word.

So, although there aren't "demands" per se, many atheists are rational based on their academic studies and research.

Now, on the Christian side of the house; all are irrational. Why? Because, terms like transcendence, omniscience, and supernatural spring to mind, and a Christian has "no way" to explain such topics using a relational construct, from this natural reality.

A Christian may attempt to conceptualize what these terms mean, through cognitive synthesis, but they are taking natural elements and artistically molding mental reference frames of their desire. They then, assert that the synthesized "concept" is reflective of an external reality; they have never experienced, and can never experience. There is no test to the concept, it's not falsifiable, and it's irrational idealism.

Idealism: "1. (philosophy) the philosophical theory that ideas are the only reality."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/idealism

If ideas are the only reality, then all ideas would be equally correct and valuable. However, the Christians I have known assert that only "their" particular "idea(l)(s)" is True. And, such a notion is of course, bigoted and absurd.

Dave8 said...

Dave8: "If doesn't how much one studies,"

Should have stated; "It doesn't matter how much one studies,..."

Transitioning between languages, ugh.

eel_shepherd said...

The topic post contained: "...The Bible says God made everything--everything!--and said it was GOOD..."

Finger-lickin' good, some of it. Maybe it's because I live in a country whose national animal symbol is the beaver, but I find I can't get too worked up about the natural workings of one organ over another. It's true that Xtians should take a more evenhanded approach to the assorted chunks that nature blows out, if it's all the Lard's work, however indecorous or immodest. (Ah yes, Modesty and Decorum; know them well; couple of sluts. Every Xtian's had them at one time or another, but very few were willing to settle down with them.) After all, seems like no matter how unpalatable the organic compound, something is glad to see it; like plants, goats, slugs, flies, etc. There's even a bacterium prepared to dine on nylon. No takers for Tupperware yet, but give it time.

dano said...

Steve wrote:
"Why also should you think that Christians are unthinking and by implication atheists are not? Discipleship requires active and regular study amongst other disciplines. That study requires thought, deep thought. Atheism, on the other hand, does not. It makes no demands whatsoever, intellectual or otherwise.
posted: April 20, 2007  "

Yo Steve!
Dano is puzzled.
I have indeed seen some pretty smart Christian apologists come to this site and try to explain why their belief in a supernatural deity makes sense, but I have noticed a curious thing about them. They will follow a line of reasoning almost to the logical end, and then quit. For instance they will say that the reason God allows men to do evil things is because he gave them "free will."

When you suggest that if God made every aspect of our being, including the propensity to make one choice over another, why would he make some of us "losers," in the search for immortality, and others, "winners."

It just doesn't seem fair to me!
If he made me with a severely critical, skeptical, logical, mind that refuses to buy into any kind of mythological religious fantasy, and he makes others with sufficient credulity, or gullibility if you will, to accept stuff on faith alone, and I have to go to a lake of fire when I die, and the gullible get to go to heaven, is that fair?

I mean, he is in absolute control over everything isn't he?
Dan

Anonymous said...

Steve wrote:
"Why also should you think that Christians are unthinking and by implication atheists are not? Discipleship requires active and regular study amongst other disciplines. That study requires thought, deep thought. Atheism, on the other hand, does not. It makes no demands whatsoever, intellectual or otherwise."
Steve
It's not so much that Christian don't think as it is they think incorrectly.Not to be insulting as in most cases it is not there fault as this is how they were taught to arrive to conclusions.You will surly admit that you have heard many conversations in which one or the other in the conversation will interject with the phrase "the bible says ..." as somehow the bible is the end all of authority. The fact of the matter is it is not. It was written by many people with first names only with no outside references to any biography of the claimed writers. Try to find info on any of the gospel authors outside the bible and not referenced to the bible.More importantly many of the claims of the bible are often contradicted within its own pages and are often at odds with archeology.When you claim atheist don't think what are you referring , religion? Why should they think about it as it no longer has any sway for them. On the other hand accepting atheism as it is takes courage. It takes courage to finally admit that there is no eye in the sky watching your every move or is going to step in and save you at the last minute. Accepting atheism is doing the high wire act without a net. Are you ready?

Anonymous said...

Steve: "Atheism, on the other hand, does not. It makes no demands whatsoever, intellectual or otherwise."

To be an atheist in the first place requires that you have enough intellectual mettle to reject our society's ubiquitous beliefs in supernatural phenomena. It's easy to believe in gods and ghosts, etc, but it takes some courage to go against the grain and demand evidence of these sorts of things. Steve says that "Discipleship requires active and regular study..." To me, the translation of this is, "Being a follower and believing the crap I've been taught since I was two requires that I work overtime to come up with rationalizations which will convince me that the crap is true." I might add that one way to convince yourself is to convince others first, hence the reason you are on here posting.

ryan said...

Steve, I took an interest in what you wrote. As a philosphy major, I take a keen interest in bullshit.

So you think that xristians are thinkers?

How about the profound xristian idea of predestination? My goodness, john calvin must have been a fucking genius, huh? Only a superior mind could have come up with that one.(that notion, of course, starts with paul and goes through augustine and then jansen. shit rolls downhill)

How about the atonement? Only if someone dies in a bloody Roman execution can god pardon the smallest of our sins. jesus, that IS profound!!!!

And now how about original sin? god holds us responsible for what two people did 6000 years ago. Good heavens, the light of intellect is dazzling!!!!

Let me see if I got this straight: because of the taint of sin from our first parents, we must accept the sacrifice of this jew condemned under Roman law, to get a salvation that is predestined. Oh mercy, my poor atheist noggin just can't take it in. Got to hand it to you, steve......you and your xristian brothers can just out-think us heathens anytime.

Okay, now that I've stopped laughing, let me tell you something. I graduated magna cum laude from a tough catholic school, St Joseph's in Rennselaer IN. I majored in philosophy and minored in religion, and steve, it's all bullshit. I have studied the "great" minds of the past and present, and it is bullshit, century after century.

The thing to do--try to follow this--is to simplify; to apprehend reality directly, instead of consulting centuries of bullshit for the answer. No, as an atheist I do not have any grand ideas, nor do I seek any. I am a man whose IQ goes off the fucking gauge,but I have no elaborate interpretations of reality. Existence is not so complex that we need to be philosophers or theologians to understand it. What we see and experience is just there--there is no "meaning" behind it.

steve, do not pose as a thinker. You can't bullshit a bullshitter.

Jim Arvo said...

Ryan,

You are absolutely right. Christian theology is very deep indeed. So much so that's it's advisable to don a pair of hip boots before wading in. It's stunning what the human mind can churn out through centuries of accumulated assertions that have no tether to reality, isn't it? And there are so many examples, all exhibiting the same overall pattern of... well... bullshit. It's hard to think of a more apt word.

ryan said...

Thanx jim

steve is amusing, but I must admit to being a little miffed about his parting shot, that atheism makes no demands, intellectual or otherwise.

If he ever reads this, he needs to consider what life is like when you get off your knees. You have to learn courage fast; we both know this, and you have to learn to be yourself. And if steve or anyone else thinks this is easy.......try it.

Anonymous said...

Another GOOD comment, right up there with "Does God have an ass-hole? If so, does He have to take a Shit from time to time? If THAT is so then the expletive "Holy Shit" is NOT blasphemous, as I was assured by a priest when I was considerably younger... If God had to take a shit from time to time then does he sometimes get the trots? If so, that would account for a lot of the shit raining down on us fom on high...

Anonymous said...

I think it is the xian's prissiness when they take off in high dudgeon when something 'offensive' to them comes up in conversation, be it human body functions or a dissection of their bible, that is so amusing and annoying to those of us who lack religious taboos. Why indeed are some subjects off limits to discussion? They seem to fear looking too closely at some things, perhaps because they know that looking too closely might attract them beyond their ability to withstand. I don't know many celebate xians who can talk about sex for long, and I already know why. Same thing for discussing their bible...they don't want to see that there is much contradiction and things they can't possibly take seriously, so the topic is taboo. I can understand why they would fear such open and honest discussion, but it makes me sad for them. They are closing their minds to the possibility of growth and change and life, much like an ancient islander might avoid eating food meant for the gods even if he was starving to death. Until they entertain the possibility that they don't already have all the answers, they are stuck in their little jail cells and strongly reject any opportunity to learn that the doors to the cells are already unlocked......

Dave8 said...

Steve: "That study requires thought, deep thought. Atheism, on the other hand, does not. It makes no demands whatsoever, intellectual or otherwise."

If not for the intellectual bankruptcy used to form Christian tradition; atheism wouldn't be necessary.